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Lions 2017

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Post by 123456789 Sun 20 Mar 2016, 11:52 pm

I understand and respect all the arguments against this kind of post 18 months before but the proper journalists are all having a so we might as well. It happens after every tournament.

For what it's worth I'd pick:

1. Marler
2. Hartley
3. Nel
4. J. Gray
5. AW Jones
6. Faletau
7. Warburton
8. Vunipola
9. Webb
10. Sexton
11. North
12. Henshaw
13. Joseph
14. Watson
15. Hogg

16. McGrath
17. MacInally
18. Lee
19. Itoje
20. Stander
21. Youngs
22. Biggar
23. Halfpenny

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Post by mikey_dragon Mon 21 Mar 2016, 12:02 am

McGrath, Hartley, Cole, Kruis, Itoje, Stander, Hardie, Vunipola - Laidlaw, Biggar, North, Roberts, Taylor, Watson, Hogg. Bench - Best, Marler, Lee, Charteris, Faletau, Murray, Sexton, Tuilagi.

England 8
Wales 6
Ireland 5
Scotland 4

I think it's the team best suited to tackle the ABs - it has a bit of everything and even includes its own Kiwi's. Could be a lot different by summer 2017.

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Post by majesticimperialman Mon 21 Mar 2016, 4:19 am

Not sure i would have Halfpenny in the team. Is he not still injured?

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Post by aucklandlaurie Mon 21 Mar 2016, 7:08 am

majesticimperialman wrote:Not sure i would have Halfpenny in the team. Is he not still injured?

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Post by aucklandlaurie Mon 21 Mar 2016, 7:09 am


Pretty hard to pick a Lions team, if you havent picked the coach first.

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Post by RuggerRadge2611 Mon 21 Mar 2016, 7:38 am

It will probably be Gatland, but I would like it to be Schmidt and Cotter in clermont Auvergne style coaching setup. Jones IMO is too incendiary and Gatland too predictable.

I also wouldn't be surprised to see Townsend involved in some capacity.
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Post by Exiledinborders Mon 21 Mar 2016, 7:40 am

Agree with most of that team except the locks. I cannot see how you can go against Itoje and Kruis. They are the best now and in 2017 are likely to be even further ahead.

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Post by RuggerRadge2611 Mon 21 Mar 2016, 8:01 am

Exiledinborders wrote:Agree with most of that team except the locks. I cannot see how you can go against Itoje and Kruis. They are the best now and in 2017 are likely to be even further ahead.

Itoje and Kruis are good, but I wouldn't say they are that much ahead of the Gray brothers if at all. I suppose it's all relative though. Johnny Gray hasn't missed a tackle since the Ireland game last year and Richie Gray had a great tournament, capping it off with a try on Saturday.

Itoje has been an incredible find, but he's still new. I remember when Cipriani, Denton, Lawes and others were all going to be Lions when they burst onto the scene. Next season will be tougher since they will be marked men.
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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon 21 Mar 2016, 8:22 am

I was thinking there wasn't any major disagreements on the baord at the moment. Good call to start a Lions thread!

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Post by exile jack Mon 21 Mar 2016, 8:24 am

It's a pity that Scotland aren't touring Argentina this summer instead of Japan because with Wales in NZ,England in Oz and Ireland in SA that would be a good pre-tour selection indicator,injuries and first season form permitting.

I think the front row slots are wide open with all to play for.In the second row and back row i'd see Kruis,Itoje,AWJ,Charteris,Gray J,Henderson,Vunipola B and Faletau nailed on.Then there'd be a choice from Lydiate,Stander,O'Brien,Hardie,O'Mahony,Haskell.At 9,Murray,Webb and Laidlaw with Davies and Care as outside bets.At 10,Sexton and Biggar with Russell and Ford as the outside bets.In the 3/4's I'd see North,Farrell,Tuilagi,Henshaw,Hogg nailed on with selections then to be made from Duncan Taylor,Matt Scott,Jon Davies,Scott Williams,McCloskey,Joseph and Watson.At FB either Mike Brown or Liam Williams to accompany Hogg.My wildcards would be Dillane,Keelan Giles and Alex Goode.I wouldn't consider Warburton or Halfpenny unless demonstrably fit and playing very well.

My money is on Schmidt to lead the tour with Gatland in some senior lead selector and advisory role.I'd like to see a coaching team of Gustard,Borthwick and Townsend.

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Post by Exeter_Chief Mon 21 Mar 2016, 9:00 am

1. Mcgrath
2. Hartley
3. Cole
4. Itoje
5. Kruis
6. Warburton
7. O'Brien
8. Vunipola
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. North
12. Roberts/Henshaw/Tuilagi (can't split them and want a ball carrier at 12)
13. Slade angel
14. Watson
15. Halfpenny

Based on if all players are fit and at 100%

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Post by bluestonevedder Mon 21 Mar 2016, 9:24 am

mikey_dragon wrote:McGrath, Hartley, Cole, Kruis, Itoje, Stander, Hardie, Vunipola - Laidlaw, Biggar, North, Roberts, Taylor, Watson, Hogg. Bench - Best, Marler, Lee, Charteris, Faletau, Murray, Sexton, Tuilagi.

England 8
Wales 6
Ireland 5
Scotland 4

I think it's the team best suited to tackle the ABs - it has a bit of everything and even includes its own Kiwi's. Could be a lot different by summer 2017.

Very similar to the team I would choose. Hardie simply has to start at 7- the man is an absolute machine. Nice looking backrow.

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Post by rainbow-warrior Mon 21 Mar 2016, 10:03 am

I think the breaks need to be applied here, England won a very poor 6 nations but already they think they are set to take on the world....WRONG. Let's see how they do in Australia, AI's and next years 6 N before you all go off on one. I think England have a chokers label to get rid of. Against Wales they were very lucky to have won seeing as North go off a legal pass to Webb who was on his way Smile Wales have established and grounded players as have Ireland and it will be no surprise to see Gatland take more from these countries at this stage. Time will tell if this chanages.
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Post by lostinwales Mon 21 Mar 2016, 10:19 am

rainbow-warrior wrote:I think the breaks need to be applied here, England won a very poor 6 nations but already they think they are set to take on the world....WRONG.  Let's see how they do in Australia, AI's and next years 6 N before you all go off on one.  I think England have a chokers label to get rid of.  Against Wales they were very lucky to have won seeing as North go off a legal pass to Webb who was on his way Smile  Wales have established and grounded players as have Ireland and it will be no surprise to see Gatland take more from these countries at this stage.  Time will tell if this chanages.

And if the two England tries from the 1st half that got disallowed were not....

And if Francis had been given a yellow card.... (Or Marler for the 1st half punch/forearm/'squashing the nasty wasp that was on the grass next to his good mate's face' or whatever)

I am sure there are other things that could have been punished or let go for both teams that were not. Instead one team dominated the match for most of its length and chose to keep the scoreboard ticking over with penalties which were mostly a guaranteed 3 points each time rather than trying something more risky. Hell of a come back at the end by Wales but they'll have to do more from the start next time. They lost. The best team on the day won.

It could well be different in 12 months. (The May game is going to be a lottery based on who is available)

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Post by bluestonevedder Mon 21 Mar 2016, 10:39 am

rainbow-warrior wrote:I think the breaks need to be applied here, England won a very poor 6 nations but already they think they are set to take on the world....WRONG.  Let's see how they do in Australia, AI's and next years 6 N before you all go off on one.  I think England have a chokers label to get rid of.  Against Wales they were very lucky to have won seeing as North go off a legal pass to Webb who was on his way Smile  Wales have established and grounded players as have Ireland and it will be no surprise to see Gatland take more from these countries at this stage.  Time will tell if this chanages.

No England fan in their right mind believes that England are suddenly world-beaters. Everyone watched the world cup and everyone knows how far ahead the southern hemisphere teams are. It would be stupid for anyone to think otherwise. That said, England got what we really needed after a drastically poor and demoralising world cup. They bounced back in the best, most timely way possible by winning the grand slam. There's nothing wrong with celebrating that. Yes, England have previously definitely been 'chokers', but winning the grand slam, in France, against a superb French display has surely vindicated that for the time being.

Also, yes it wasn't the greatest 6 nations (very poor is a stretch), but you say yourself in the last few sentences that Wales and Ireland have grounded and established players. So they're far, far, far from being bad teams. Beating them is a huge step forward.

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Post by theslosty Mon 21 Mar 2016, 12:25 pm

I see the following as every player from B&I who will be in with a shout of a starting spot (partially picked in mind with Gatland as coach)

1. McGrath, Marler, Vunipola
2. Hartley, Best
3. Lee, Cole, Nel
4. Itoje, Launchbury, AWJ
5. J Gray, Lawes, Kruis
6. Henderson, POM, Lydiate, Robshaw
7. Warburton, SOB, TOD, Hardie
8. Faletau, B Vunipola, Heaslip, Stander

9. Webb, Murray
10. Sexton, Biggar, Farrell
11. North, L Williams
12. Roberts, Tuilagi, McCloskey, Dunbar
13. Joseph, Davies, Henshaw, Bennett, Slade
14. Watson, May
15. Hogg, Brown, Halfpenny

Second row and centres are the most competitive areas but a lack of real top class wingers. Front row is a bit average tbh.

Regards captaincy POM was actually the bookies favourite for this tour but he will need a massive season as Ireland captain to get near the Lions role. If Warburton starts then I can't see Gatland going against him.

Ireland will have to start picking some young players in the next 12 months (Schmidt can't be conservative forever) so a couple of bolters from here could be Henderson, McCloskey, van der Flier, Stuart Olding and Josh van der Flier. Any other young players who could impose themselves before the tour? Henry Slade perhaps?
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Post by Exiledinborders Mon 21 Mar 2016, 12:40 pm

theslosty wrote:I see the following as every player from B&I who will be in with a shout of a starting spot (partially picked in mind with Gatland as coach)

1. McGrath, Marler, Vunipola
2. Hartley, Best
3. Lee, Cole, Nel
4. Itoje, Launchbury, AWJ
5. J Gray, Lawes, Kruis
6. Henderson, POM, Lydiate, Robshaw
7. Warburton, SOB, TOD, Hardie
8. Faletau, B Vunipola, Heaslip, Stander

9. Webb, Murray
10. Sexton, Biggar, Farrell
11. North, L Williams
12. Roberts, Tuilagi, McCloskey, Dunbar
13. Joseph, Davies, Henshaw, Bennett, Slade
14. Watson, May
15. Hogg, Brown, Halfpenny

Second row and centres are the most competitive areas but a lack of real top class wingers. Front row is a bit average tbh.

Regards captaincy POM was actually the bookies favourite for this tour but he will need a massive season as Ireland captain to get near the Lions role. If Warburton starts then I can't see Gatland going against him.

Ireland will have to start picking some young players in the next 12 months (Schmidt can't be conservative forever) so a couple of bolters from here could be Henderson, McCloskey, van der Flier, Stuart Olding and Josh van der Flier. Any other young players who could impose themselves before the tour? Henry Slade perhaps?
Definitely Slade. He is pure class. By the time of Lions Nathan Hughes will be available. He looks to have what it takes.

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Post by TightHEAD Mon 21 Mar 2016, 1:23 pm

Gatlands Lions.

Hogg
North
J Davies
Roberts
1/2p
Biggar
Webb
Faletau,
Warburton (Capt)
Lydiate
Kruis
AWJ
Lee
Hartley (My mistake Gatland will never pick the England Capt) - Best
McGrath


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Post by TJ Mon 21 Mar 2016, 1:26 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:I was thinking there wasn't any major disagreements on the baord at the moment. Good call to start a Lions thread!

Very Happy

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Post by bedfordwelsh Mon 21 Mar 2016, 1:59 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Gatlands Lions.

Hogg
North
J Davies
Roberts
1/2p
Biggar
Webb
Faletau,
Warburton (Capt)
Lydiate
Kruis
AWJ
Lee
Hartley (My mistake Gatland will never pick the England Capt)  - Best
McGrath

He selected him to tour last time then Hartley went and got himself banned.
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Post by Exiledinborders Mon 21 Mar 2016, 2:01 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Gatlands Lions.

Hogg
North
J Davies
Roberts
1/2p
Biggar
Webb
Faletau,
Warburton (Capt)
Lydiate
Kruis
AWJ
Lee
Hartley (My mistake Gatland will never pick the England Capt)  - Best
McGrath
Oh! Is this thread Gatland's Lions? I thought it was the team that should be picked.

If this is Gatland's Lions then Itoje, Kruis and Billy V will not feature. I expect to see a team stuffed full of Welsh and Irish again with a token couple of English and possibly one Scot.

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Post by LordDowlais Mon 21 Mar 2016, 2:06 pm

Exiledinborders wrote:and possibly one Scot.

I do not think there are any Scottish players that are better than the Welsh/English/Irish counterparts so taking one Scottish player would be an achievement if we are going by current form. OK

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Post by RuggerRadge2611 Mon 21 Mar 2016, 2:09 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Exiledinborders wrote:and possibly one Scot.

I do not think there are any Scottish players that are better than the Welsh/English/Irish counterparts so taking one Scottish player would be an achievement if we are going by current form. OK

and so it begins...

I'll bite.

Who has played better at full back than Hogg? Apart from Itoje and Kruis who's been better at lock than Johnny Gray? At openside who has been better than Hardie?

Please do explain, and use small words I'm clearly not as bright as you.
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Post by GeordieFalcon Mon 21 Mar 2016, 2:13 pm

Ill probably get questioned on this but im not convinced on Dan Cole. Plus hes a bigger penalty magnet than Haskell!

In the next 18 months if Paul Hill keeps up his progression, he'll have the England 3 shirt in the bag.

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Post by lostinwales Mon 21 Mar 2016, 2:14 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Exiledinborders wrote:and possibly one Scot.

I do not think there are any Scottish players that are better than the Welsh/English/Irish counterparts so taking one Scottish player would be an achievement if we are going by current form. OK

and so it begins...

I'll bite.

Who has played better at full back than Hogg? Apart from Itoje and Kruis who's been better at lock than Johnny Gray? At openside who has been better than Hardie?

Please do explain, and use small words I'm clearly not as bright as you.

Taylor is also making an excellent case for himself and could well be in the mix if he continues his form.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Mon 21 Mar 2016, 2:15 pm

rainbow-warrior wrote:I think the breaks need to be applied here, England won a very poor 6 nations but already they think they are set to take on the world....WRONG. .

Says who??


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Post by lostinwales Mon 21 Mar 2016, 2:17 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:
rainbow-warrior wrote:I think the breaks need to be applied here, England won a very poor 6 nations but already they think they are set to take on the world....WRONG. .

Says who??


And that nice little Brian Moore quote comes to mind - if its so bloody poor why didn't anyone else win it?

(And yes quality could have been better  but its still a big achievement and better than the alternative Smile )


Last edited by lostinwales on Mon 21 Mar 2016, 2:17 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by LordDowlais Mon 21 Mar 2016, 2:17 pm

Hogg is not better than the following:-

Leigh Halfpenny
Liam Williams
Mike Brown
Rob Kearney 

I'm sorry but he isn't, I know you might beg to differ, but he is not.

You might have a point with Grey, but there are far better English and Welsh options, and Hardie is not anywhere near the likes of Warburton, Tuperic, SOB. 

Look, we all see our own players through tinted specs, but if Scotland had all these epic best players in their position, I would have thought they would be able to beat one of the home nations sides more than once every 8 or 9 years.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon 21 Mar 2016, 2:19 pm

Seriously?

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Post by lostinwales Mon 21 Mar 2016, 2:20 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Hogg is not better than the following:-

Leigh Halfpenny
Liam Williams
Mike Brown
Rob Kearney 

I'm sorry but he isn't, I know you might beg to differ, but he is not.

You might have a point with Grey, but there are far better English and Welsh options, and Hardie is not anywhere near the likes of Warburton, Tuperic, SOB. 

Look, we all see our own players through tinted specs, but if Scotland had all these epic best players in their position, I would have thought they would be able to beat one of the home nations sides more than once every 8 or 9 years.

We do use rose tinted glasses. We also make the mistake (especially in this case) of trying to compare one player at his best level against another at his current level. All of the players above have played fantastically well at some point in their careers. None of the ones actually playing (e.g. not 1/2p) are remotely close to Hogg at the moment.

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Post by LordDowlais Mon 21 Mar 2016, 2:27 pm

lostinwales wrote:None of the ones actually playing (e.g. not 1/2p) are remotely close to Hogg at the moment.

When Hogg learns how to tackle and win 50/50's in the air to the level of the others then yes you will have a point.

Why does everybody watch Hogg when he has the ball in hand doing all the fancy stuff brilliantly all of a sudden think he is any better than the other ?

Hogg is excellent in many aspects of fullback play, and predominantly that is the attacking side of it, he has pace to burn and has a sidestep to die for, yes he hits some lovely angles, but he is a turn style in defence and if he was going for a 50/50 in the air I would not have as much faith in him as I would others.

I'm sorry, you should not get Lions preference just for being the best of a bad bunch.

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Post by IanBru Mon 21 Mar 2016, 2:30 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Seriously?
Apparently so.

In other news, The Godfather is not better than the following:

National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation
Pain and Gain
Sex and the City 2
Roadhouse

I'm sorry but it isn't, I know you might beg to differ, but it is not.
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Post by funnyExiledScot Mon 21 Mar 2016, 2:31 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Hogg is not better than the following:-

Leigh Halfpenny
Liam Williams
Mike Brown
Rob Kearney 

I'm sorry but he isn't, I know you might beg to differ, but he is not.

You might have a point with Grey, but there are far better English and Welsh options, and Hardie is not anywhere near the likes of Warburton, Tuperic, SOB. 

Look, we all see our own players through tinted specs, but if Scotland had all these epic best players in their position, I would have thought they would be able to beat one of the home nations sides more than once every 8 or 9 years.

Hogg is the best fullback in the NH at the moment (i.e. on form). That is the accepted view of most pundits and well supported on this forum (just read a selection of "Team of the 6 Nations" and you'll get there). Clearly with Halfpenny and Kearney out of contention for most of the 6 Nations it has allowed Hogg to steal a march on those two, but he's been better than Williams and Brown this tournament, and better than Zebo as well.

Scotland's record against the home nations over the last 8 or 9 years is clearly irrelevant as to whether or not Hogg, on form, deserves the Lions jersey. You need to look at the individual and not the team when making these assessments.

Other Scots who would make respective Home Nations teams:

Ireland - Nel, J Gray, Dunbar and Hogg.
Wales - J Gray and Hogg.
England - Hardie, Dunbar and Hogg.

Just my opinion of course.


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Post by Exiledinborders Mon 21 Mar 2016, 2:31 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Hogg is not better than the following:-

Leigh Halfpenny
Liam Williams
Mike Brown
Rob Kearney 

I'm sorry but he isn't, I know you might beg to differ, but he is not.

You might have a point with Grey, but there are far better English and Welsh options, and Hardie is not anywhere near the likes of Warburton, Tuperic, SOB. 

Look, we all see our own players through tinted specs, but if Scotland had all these epic best players in their position, I would have thought they would be able to beat one of the home nations sides more than once every 8 or 9 years.
I am not Scottish and I see Hogg as better than all of the four you mention. The only reason for even considering Halfpenny would be his place kicking.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon 21 Mar 2016, 2:31 pm

The choice at full back and lock is strong I'd have thoguht. You may have Watson back there by then as well to choose from. The difficulty of looking so far ahead. If we were going to NZ next week you'd suspect that Hogg would be the starter surely?

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Post by IanBru Mon 21 Mar 2016, 2:32 pm

LordDowlais wrote:I'm sorry, you should not get Lions preference just for being the best of a bad bunch.
Hold on there chief, when the bunch is bad, being the best of them is literally the only basis for Lions selection.

Wait, are there other criteria? Will Hogg's terrible baritone voice count against him? Will Rob Kearney's famed protein pancakes tip the scales in his favour?
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Post by lostinwales Mon 21 Mar 2016, 2:33 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
lostinwales wrote:None of the ones actually playing (e.g. not 1/2p) are remotely close to Hogg at the moment.

When Hogg learns how to tackle and win 50/50's in the air to the level of the others then yes you will have a point.

Why does everybody watch Hogg when he has the ball in hand doing all the fancy stuff brilliantly all of a sudden think he is any better than the other ?

Hogg is excellent in many aspects of fullback play, and predominantly that is the attacking side of it, he has pace to burn and has a sidestep to die for, yes he hits some lovely angles, but he is a turn style in defence and if he was going for a 50/50 in the air I would not have as much faith in him as I would others.

I'm sorry, you should not get Lions preference just for being the best of a bad bunch.

You shouldn't get it for past glories either. Probably a good thing that neither of us are selectors.

Just for the record
- 1/2p is becoming a perenial sick note
- Liam Williams is always coming back from injury. Be nice to see what he can do with more game time. I see him as similar to Hogg in that hes very much an attacking player.
- Kearney is very much on the wane
- Brown is also on the wane. Lots of good stuff still but lots of dumb stuff and nothing like as influential as he was a couple of years back.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Mon 21 Mar 2016, 2:34 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
lostinwales wrote:None of the ones actually playing (e.g. not 1/2p) are remotely close to Hogg at the moment.

When Hogg learns how to tackle and win 50/50's in the air to the level of the others then yes you will have a point.

Why does everybody watch Hogg when he has the ball in hand doing all the fancy stuff brilliantly all of a sudden think he is any better than the other ?

Hogg is excellent in many aspects of fullback play, and predominantly that is the attacking side of it, he has pace to burn and has a sidestep to die for, yes he hits some lovely angles, but he is a turn style in defence and if he was going for a 50/50 in the air I would not have as much faith in him as I would others.

I'm sorry, you should not get Lions preference just for being the best of a bad bunch.

Sadly this usually exactly how it works!

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Post by LordDowlais Mon 21 Mar 2016, 2:34 pm

The only Scottish player I would consider at the moment is Grey, and he would have a fight on his hands. 

When Hogg improves his defensive side to being a fullback then he can rub shoulders with the best in the NH. OK

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Post by TightHEAD Mon 21 Mar 2016, 2:39 pm

Hogg is great to watch but he isn't perfect, far from it in fact.

His reaction towards his team mates when they make a mistake shocking, what's with all the arm waving?

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Post by funnyExiledScot Mon 21 Mar 2016, 2:40 pm

LordDowlais wrote:The only Scottish player I would consider at the moment is Grey, and he would have a fight on his hands. 

When Hogg improves his defensive side to being a fullback then he can rub shoulders with the best in the NH. OK

It's Jonny Gray. You may as well get something right!

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Post by funnyExiledScot Mon 21 Mar 2016, 2:40 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Hogg is great to watch but he isn't perfect, far from it in fact.

His reaction towards his team mates when they make a mistake shocking, what's with all the arm waving?


I think he's been told that Dan Biggar is World Class and is therefore trying to copy him.

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Post by mikey_dragon Mon 21 Mar 2016, 2:41 pm

For what it's worth I picked four Scots in my starting lineup; Hardie, Laidlaw, Taylor and Hogg. Guys like Seymour, Nel and the Gray brothers should also tour. By the time 2017 comes around though, I expect Webb and Davies to be the front-runners for the No.9 jersey.


Last edited by mikey_dragon on Mon 21 Mar 2016, 2:42 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Fanster Mon 21 Mar 2016, 2:42 pm

I have to agree with Lord, as electric as Hogg is ball in hand his defencive awareness, strength in the tackle, and every issue of a high ball isn't great.

That said I would very much have him in the squad to NZ, in contention for the 15 birth but would probably look at him on the wing first.

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Post by Fanster Mon 21 Mar 2016, 2:46 pm

My 15 would be...

Mcgrath / maybe Healy will return form
Best
Cole
Grey
AWJ (Although both English locks are clearly in view right now!)
SOB (not a great 6N, but superb player)
Warburton
Vunipola (I love Falatau but Billy would be in line with how i'd play)
Murray (If his kicking game comes back)
Bigger
North
Roberts
Taylor
Hogg
Williams

Harsh on English players right now I get, but Itoje and Kruis have to back up this 6N performances, Hartley has work to do, Farell needs to show he can play 12 as a 12, I wouldn't want 2 playmakers 10/12, Joseph and Watson very close to team, and def in my squad.

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Post by LordDowlais Mon 21 Mar 2016, 2:47 pm

Fanster wrote:I have to agree with Lord, as electric as Hogg is ball in hand his defencive awareness, strength in the tackle, and every issue of a high ball isn't great.

Exactly. This 100%.

At least I am not the only one who see's this. Smile

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Post by LordDowlais Mon 21 Mar 2016, 2:50 pm

And another thing for me, I know I am just being picky though, but I would chose the scrum half and fly half axis from the same country as they know each others game, so if I was going for Murray, then I would pick Sexton, or if I was going for Webb I would pick Biggar.

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Post by Exiledinborders Mon 21 Mar 2016, 2:54 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:For what it's worth I picked four Scots in my starting lineup; Hardie, Laidlaw, Taylor and Hogg. Guys like Seymour, Nel and the Gray brothers should also tour. By the time 2017 comes around though, I expect Webb and Davies to be the front-runners for the No.9 jersey.
Laidlaw???

He is not the best scrum half in Scotland. Yes, his short range place kicking is excellent but he is so slow at moving the ball he makes Ben Youngs look quick which takes some doing. Opposing defenses must love him.

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Post by TightHEAD Mon 21 Mar 2016, 2:54 pm

Maybe the Coach should take a few players who have beaten the All Blacks. thumbsup
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Post by alive555 Mon 21 Mar 2016, 2:56 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Fanster wrote:I have to agree with Lord, as electric as Hogg is ball in hand his defencive awareness, strength in the tackle, and every issue of a high ball isn't great.

Exactly. This 100%.

At least I am not the only one who see's this. Smile

Halfpenny isnt great defensively either. Brown is probably the best of the bunch. As an attacking threat Hogg is in a completely different league to the lot of them. He also has the edge he might get used as a kicker cause he can boot from well over half way. Could be valuable !

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