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Eddie's England squad for summer

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Post by rozakthegoon Tue 22 Mar 2016, 6:06 pm

Hello you lovely lot.

I've very much enjoyed your posts over this six nations. Great stuff.

I don't post much as I'm a bit of a novice (well a lot of really) but I'm always intrigued by your far more experienced wisdom. So:

The summer will bring a chance for Eddie to put more of his stamp on the team; who do you think stays the same and who changes? And who, if any, so you think might be bolters? (I know it's an oxymoron asking about bolters this early, but I'm going to do it anyway)

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Post by rozakthegoon Tue 22 Mar 2016, 6:16 pm

Oh also the reason i was thinking about this was this article

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2016/mar/21/eddie-jones-england-players-jonny-wilkinson

Blimey the pressure on Sam underhill from this! Talk about over selling our young talent!

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Post by robbo277 Tue 22 Mar 2016, 6:46 pm

Looking at who got minutes in the Six Nations:

Marler, Mako
Hartley, George, Cowan-Dickie
Cole, Brookes, Hill
Itoje, Kruis, Launchbury, Lawes
Robshaw, Haskell, Clifford
Vunipola
Care, Youngs
Ford, Farrell
Joseph, Daly, Tuilagi
Nowell, Watson
Brown, Goode

You'd have to add some cover at flanker, 8, half backs and wing at the very least. So in terms of new faces (fitness permitting), I'd expect to see: Ewers, Beaumont, Slade and May.

I'd also personally like to see Kvesic, Simpson, Cipriani and Wade added to the squad as players with the potential to take our attacking game on. Maybe they're not ready to start yet, but I'd like to see them get some time with the International coaches.

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Post by robbo277 Tue 22 Mar 2016, 6:50 pm

With regards to Underhill, I guess the only benefit now is to stop Wales capping him, although I think he may be a year or two off. I'd potentially call him up for the Wales game (as we're likely to be without some of our big names and will possibly rest others) and cap him there either starting or off the bench.

If it was a traditional Barbarians game you could see a backrow of Ewers, Clifford and Beaumont getting to start with Underhill on the bench. Not sure whether we want to get our strongest team available out or experiment a bit more, but I think it would be the best chance to get some of these fringe players a run out.

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT Tue 22 Mar 2016, 6:54 pm

Two Saints players I could possibly see as outside bets, Harrison - he can cover the whole back row, although very much an Aussie style 8 or if he continues his current form Wood.

In line with Robbo's additions to the squad, Mallinder Jnr. He is a talent and like Maro Itoje worth introducing a season or so before he is ready to challenge for a place.
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Post by Poorfour Tue 22 Mar 2016, 9:24 pm

Add Slade, Ewers, Underhill, Mallinder, Beaumont and Robson to the current squad and I reckon you'll be pretty close.
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Post by yappysnap Tue 22 Mar 2016, 9:37 pm

I can not see Wood ever getting back into the EPS bar injury cover. He's just too average and not physical enough.

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Post by rozakthegoon Wed 23 Mar 2016, 11:58 am

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/rugby/sam-underhill-flanker-who-flattened-jamie-roberts-is-england-s-next-big-hope-a3210011.html

Another bit of hype on underhill. Anyone seen him play?

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Post by lostinwales Wed 23 Mar 2016, 12:16 pm

robbo277 wrote:With regards to Underhill, I guess the only benefit now is to stop Wales capping him, although I think he may be a year or two off. I'd potentially call him up for the Wales game (as we're likely to be without some of our big names and will possibly rest others) and cap him there either starting or off the bench.

If it was a traditional Barbarians game you could see a backrow of Ewers, Clifford and Beaumont getting to start with Underhill on the bench. Not sure whether we want to get our strongest team available out or experiment a bit more, but I think it would be the best chance to get some of these fringe players a run out.

Unless he has a massive change of heart I have read nothing to suggest he'll stay in Wales.

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Post by Poorfour Wed 23 Mar 2016, 12:30 pm

rozakthegoon wrote:http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/rugby/sam-underhill-flanker-who-flattened-jamie-roberts-is-england-s-next-big-hope-a3210011.html

Another bit of hype on underhill. Anyone seen him play?

I've made a point of watching him play for the Ospreys when they've been on telly. Only got two or three games to go on, but he is impressive, especially for a 19 year old. The two things that struck me most were how physical he is - clearly very powerful despite not being hugely tall - and the way he approaches the breakdown.

Most players, including most flankers, usually seem to hit the breakdown in the same way, the same entry line, the same bodyshape as they approach the ruck. What's striking about Underhill is that you can see him adjusting his body angle and approach to what he sees in the ruck. Instead of just blasting into the contact area, he's actively choosing the most effective way to compete. I think he is definitely worth watching and there's a good chance he will live up to the hype.
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Post by GeordieFalcon Wed 23 Mar 2016, 12:57 pm

Sam Underhill (Ospreys)
Imagine if a rugby-mad scientist could somehow clone Richard Hill with Richie McCaw.

Shocked Erm

That's massive hype!!! Ive never even seen him play.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Wed 23 Mar 2016, 1:02 pm

How many players will be in the touring part?

30 - 35?


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Post by Cumbrian Wed 23 Mar 2016, 1:03 pm

I would say that Underhill will definitely be there, simply because Jones has made a point of name-checking him. Who else get's taken down under will very much depend on the size of the squad Jones is taking and who is actually in the Saxons (it was named but not divulged to the general public).

You could assume that Ashton may have a shot because Jones included him in his initial squad. The same could be said of Devoto/Slade, Kvesic and Beaumont who were all in and around the training squad during the Six Nations.

Outside of those I don't see that many changes.
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Post by Presuming Ed Wed 23 Mar 2016, 1:36 pm

Freddie Burns is sure to tour as cover for Ford.

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Post by cb Wed 23 Mar 2016, 2:06 pm

Couple of things I would like to see: - firstly giving Watson a chance to play at fullback.  Though Brown is very reliable I do think he tends to hold the attack back.  Watson's pace at FB would be interesting.

Secondly, trying Robson at SH.  Care wasn't bad and Youngs had his moments but seems at times to offer  slow link to the backs.

Other than that, mostly areas are in reasonable shape with players potentially coming through.

Finally, I am not sure Ford/Farrell is a long-term solution, not least because it seems to hamper the outside centre. How will Slade or Tuilagi do?

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Post by king_carlos Wed 23 Mar 2016, 4:15 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:
Sam Underhill (Ospreys)
Imagine if a rugby-mad scientist could somehow clone Richard Hill with Richie McCaw.

Shocked  Erm

That's massive hype!!! Ive never even seen him play.

The hype as always with English sports prospects is ridiculous! My particular favourite articles are the one which refer to people trying to 'keep a lid' on his potential, as if he's a secret, then continue to spout hyperbole about him for an entire article.

However as a prospect at his age he does look very impressive. Most talented flankers at 19 years old have incredible jack-in-box energy that sees them fly all over the pitch at 100 miles an hour, however most also lack a bit of physicality in contact and show immaturity in their decision making. They run all day but often expend twice the energy that more experienced players use doing the same amount of work.

That's where Underhill seems to standout. He has the incredible fitness levels of most the highly conditioned young flankers you see these days but he also has incredible strength in contact that is rare to see at 19. His natural reading of the game also seems very good and the few games I've seen he is constantly communicating with those around him to make sure he is in the right place at the right moments.

As for the size of the squad... It's usually the EPS (with injured guys replaced) plus a few to allow more rotation in tour matches and injury cover. There will definitely be an extra scrum half plus probably another flanker and/or lock for cover there.

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Post by king_carlos Wed 23 Mar 2016, 4:29 pm

1.Marler, Mako, Mullan
2.Hartley, George, LCD
3.Cole, Brookes, Hill
4.Itoje, Launchbury
5.Kruis, Lawes, Slater
6.Robshaw, Ewers/Kvesic
7.Haskell, Clifford
8.Vunipola, Beaumont

9.Youngs, Care, Robson/Simpson
10.Ford, Farrell

11.Nowell, Yarde
12.Tuilagi, Slade
13.Joseph, Daly
14.Watson, Wade/Roko/Ashton
15.Brown, Goode

Judging by who was called up as injury replacements in the 6 Nations these are next in-line in some positions: Tommy Taylor, Henry Thomas, Sam Hill, Olly Devoto

Those in bold I reckon are certainties to go if fit. It's nice that certainty is mostly due to those guys being better than the other possibilities rather than just guys that Jones favours and will refuse to drop. In both prop positions for instance I think we definitely have the best 3 players possible in the EPS.

I'd rather not take LCD or Goode personally but can't see them dropped.

If Beaumont isn't fit it will be interesting to see whether another 8 is called up (considering that Hughes isn't eligible until just after the tour) or Clifford/Ewers are used as cover with another flanker added to the squad.

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Post by doctor_grey Wed 23 Mar 2016, 5:20 pm

robbo277 wrote:Looking at who got minutes in the Six Nations:

Marler, Mako
Hartley, George, Cowan-Dickie
Cole, Brookes, Hill
Itoje, Kruis, Launchbury, Lawes
Robshaw, Haskell, Clifford
Vunipola
Care, Youngs
Ford, Farrell
Joseph, Daly, Tuilagi
Nowell, Watson
Brown, Goode

You'd have to add some cover at flanker, 8, half backs and wing at the very least. So in terms of new faces  (fitness permitting), I'd expect to see: Ewers, Beaumont, Slade and May.

I'd also personally like to see Kvesic, Simpson, Cipriani and Wade added to the squad as players with the potential to take our attacking game on. Maybe they're not ready to start yet, but I'd like to see them get some time with the International coaches.
Mate, a good way to start the discussion - using where we were during the 6 Nations.

To me I have concerns about the following because of injury, over-work, or something else:
Marler needs the summer off to ponder life and his role in society
Hartley needs the summer off to ensure he is completely free of concussive trauma, but I am afraid he will play
Cowan-Dickie can play but needs a new name
Lawes needs the summer off to ensure he is completely healthy
Robshaw needs the summer off, he has been getting a physical beating for two straight seasons and needs a recharge
Brown also needs the summer off - he looks like a shot player at the moment and needs a real recharge

On the other hand, I would like to see get a run (from off the top):
Paul Hill
Josh Beaumont
Mikey Haywood
Dave Ewers
Henry Slade
Christian Wade
Joe Simpson (is there anyone else in contention at 9?)



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Post by LondonTiger Wed 23 Mar 2016, 8:15 pm

I agree Doc about Hartley. Reading about the state he was in after the latest blwo to his head, he should really take a break from now until September.

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Post by king_carlos Wed 23 Mar 2016, 11:03 pm

I've only just read the full extent of Hartley's concussion. It seems odd that he was running around with the trophy whilst a doctor followed 10 metres behind him making sure he's ok. I'm no expert on the subject but having had two nasty concussions myself I must say that I didn't feel like running around and celebrating anything. One of the reasons it's difficult to deal with is the differing extent to which people react to it though I guess. If he's suffering that kind of memory loss then he really can't be in a good way.

It's worrying that he's already talking about getting back on the pitch with Saints to prove his fitness for the end of the season...

If he is given the summer off then hopefully George is fit to take his chance. I'd really like to see Haywood take Hartley's place in the squad if he hasn't recovered.

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Post by DaveM Thu 24 Mar 2016, 12:36 am

I think Underhill will tour. It will be interesting to see if EJ goes with a 6. Clifford 7. Underhill combination. If he wants even more pace he could give Beaumont a start at 8.

The other issue I find particularly interesting is what will he do with Slade and Tuilagi and how he will move forward on the 10, 12 13 combination. He's quite clear Manu isn't a 13 in his view. That means he must play 12, but that is probably Slade's preferred position. I don't think JJ did anything in the 6 Nations and Daly will love the fast pitches. Plus Daly's footballing skills would blend well with Tuilagi at 12. Then EJ can decide between Ford, Farrell and Slade at 10.

There are other combinations available of course.

IF EJ can get some game time for Clifford, Underhill and Beaumont, and if he can make progress on identifying a long-term 10, 12, 13 combination then I think we'll come back a much improved side and squad.

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Post by Ozzy3213 Thu 24 Mar 2016, 12:52 am

I'm pretty sure that I read/heard somewhere that had Slade been fit, he would have played 12 in the 6 Nations. Eddie Jones has waxed lyrical about him and is clearly a big fan so I suspect he would have been and will be in the side somewhere. If you work on the premise that the above is correct, then we may have seen 10. Ford/Farrell 12. Slade 13. JJ over the past few weeks which isn't a bad looking combination.

However, if Eddie thinks Manu is a 12, and I suspect he wants to turn him into Ma'a Nonu, then 10. Ford/Farrell 12. Tuilagi 13. Slade could also be a very workable set up for England moving forwards.

Daly for me is the ideal player for the 23 jersey, covering 11,13,14 and 15 from the bench and providing a huge impact at the same time.
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Post by majesticimperialman Thu 24 Mar 2016, 5:02 am

Will the likes of Marlan Yarde, Ben Fonden, Tom Wood. All get a chance do you think.

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Post by rozakthegoon Thu 24 Mar 2016, 9:07 am

A couple of people have mentioned Daley at 15, is this a genuine possibility?! I'm presuming wasps won't be putting him back there anytime soon?

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Post by doctor_grey Thu 24 Mar 2016, 9:27 am

majesticimperialman wrote:Will the likes of Marlan Yarde, Ben Fonden, Tom Wood. All get a chance do you think.
All make sense for different reasons. However, each are trying to get back to the squad and this tour should, in my opinion, be the testing ground for those kinds of players.

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Post by king_carlos Thu 24 Mar 2016, 9:36 am

majesticimperialman wrote:Will the likes of Marlan Yarde, Ben Fonden, Tom Wood. All get a chance do you think.

Yarde was in Jones first EPS so I'd imagine so. Nowell, Watson, Yarde and Ashton were occupying the wing slots with Roko then called up to replace Ashton when he was banned. As such it seems likely that Jones is interested in him. He was terrible in his first season at Quins but is steadily getting back to where he was a couple of seasons back. He has as much pace as any wing in England but is more powerful than most and has very strong footwork, I reckon he'll get another chance at some point.

Not many wings have run through a Richie McCaw tackle to score so he certainly has plenty to offer in attack!

Foden I can't imagine. Brown is currently first choice, Goode is liked by the coaching staff and Watson will likely move back to 15 in due course. Even after those there is also Nowell who can cover there and Pennell who IMO is now a better player than Foden.

Tom Wood... Probably not. I really liked him when he first came onto the scene, then he seemed to steadily lose all the impact/aggression in his tackling and ruck work. Jones has told Wood that he doesn't rate his work rate, given that is all Wood really offered for much of his international appearances I don't see how he can work his way back in.

rozak - Do you mean a couple of people on here or in the media? He's our second best (and could quickly become first choice) outside centre so I can't see it. Jones has talked about how he wants Daly to be a 60+ cap player for England and has also mentioned he was impressed with his ability to slot in at 12. He's a centre and wont go back to 15 any time soon I hope.

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Post by englandglory4ever Thu 24 Mar 2016, 9:42 am

Eddie is a different coach to what we're used to. All this is it Farrell, slade or Manu at 12 misses what he's about. The answer is that it is all of them and some. Eddie will pick whoever he thinks is the right player for the next game. Care and Youngs are a good example. He looks closely at the opposition and selects his best player who he thinks will do the job. I expect to see him change the side whenever he thinks he needs to. That puts a lot of pressure on all players.

I don't think Eddie is much about development. He wants to win. I'd be very surprised if he picked a player just to see how he went.


Last edited by englandglory4ever on Thu 24 Mar 2016, 10:27 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by funnyExiledScot Thu 24 Mar 2016, 10:22 am

I think Jones will use the 6 Nations Grand Slam winning squad as the basis, and make a couple of minor tweaks. The positions I think he'll take a look at are as follows:

Tighthead - Cole gave away a few penalties and I think Jones will take a look at Kieran Brookes in the summer provided he's fit.

Openside - Haskell did well for England in the 6 Nations but I think against Australia Jones will consider other options: Clifford and Underhill look good bets for the future (and I've seen Underhill a few times in the Pro12 and fully understand the hype - he's got a bit of physical developing still to do but he has big potential).

Scrum half - Care and Youngs have shared duties for some time but neither has really grabbed the jersey. I wonder whether Jones will take a look at a third option - perhaps Joe Simpson from Wasps.

Fly half/inside centre - the Ford/Farrell combination greatly exceeded my expectations in the 6 Nations but I don't think it's the long term answer. I'd take a look at Ford/Tuilagi and Farrell/Slade as potential options.

Left wing - Jack Nowell is a man that divides opinion. I think he's a "good" player but I don't think he's the sort of strike runner to grace the highest level. I don't think he has a place in the same sentence as Folau, Savea, Milner-Skudder, North and Nadolo for example. Anthony Watson and Christian Wade on the other hand might just get there. Those would be my wings in the summer with Mike Brown continuing his fine work at 15 (although I believe the jersey will belong to Watson in the long run).

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Post by propdavid_london Thu 24 Mar 2016, 1:39 pm

I don't think Tom Wood will get a look in anymore!
Yarde might as we aren't sure about May coming back to full fitness - It seems a shootout with Rocko.
Ben Foden is showing some good form at the moment - but Brown and Good seem to be infront...with Penel as backup and Nowell/Watson as utility cover - its a big ask.

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Post by LondonTiger Thu 24 Mar 2016, 2:02 pm

I think Mathew Tait and Tom Croft have as much chance of playing for England again as Ben Foden and Tom Wood.

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Post by englandglory4ever Thu 24 Mar 2016, 7:03 pm

LondonTiger wrote:I think Mathew Tait and Tom Croft have as much chance of playing for England again as Ben Foden and Tom Wood.

No, no, noooo. We're doomed.

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Post by LondonTiger Thu 24 Mar 2016, 7:55 pm

englandglory4ever wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:I think Mathew Tait and Tom Croft have as much chance of playing for England again as Ben Foden and Tom Wood.

No, no, noooo. We're doomed.

As none of them will ever play for england again, I have to assume you want them to.

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Post by majesticimperialman Fri 25 Mar 2016, 5:27 am

Billy Vunaploa was the stand out number 8 for us in the 6ns. Who was the reserve number 8?

And for the summer tour will Billy V be rested, and Ben Morgan come back in to the squad.? or is his play for England over?

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Post by LondonTiger Fri 25 Mar 2016, 8:48 am

majesticimperialman wrote:Billy Vunaploa was the stand out number 8 for us in the 6ns. Who was the reserve number 8?

And for the summer tour will Billy  V be rested, and Ben Morgan come back in to the squad.? or is his play for England over?

Clifford was the reserve 8 in the matchday squads, but was not needed there. Beaumont was in the EPS till his injury so is probably ahead of Morgan.

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Post by Mr Bounce Fri 25 Mar 2016, 5:58 pm

I doubt we'll see too many "newbies" in the squad; however, Slade is a dead cert to tour, as is Ewers as both were in the initial EPS when it was announced. I reckon that Beaumont will be going, but I'm unsure about Cipriani as Jones does not seem to rate him too highly. Slade will be able to cover the 3rd 10 spot I reckon. Simpson has been injured for what seems like forever, so it's unlikely he'll tour as he'll have had precious little game time.

I am certain that Tom Wood will not be gracing the England back row at any time during Eddie Jones' tenure, and with both Big Billy and Beaumont Jr, Ben Morgan's chances have also taken a dent. I'd like to think that Christian Wade's Premiership form has put him into contention for a wing spot, and a back 3 of Brown, Watson & Wade sounds like a whole pile of fun to watch. Will Jones rest any of his top players?

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Post by king_carlos Fri 25 Mar 2016, 6:18 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:Billy Vunaploa was the stand out number 8 for us in the 6ns. Who was the reserve number 8?

And for the summer tour will Billy  V be rested, and Ben Morgan come back in to the squad.? or is his play for England over?

Clifford was the reserve 8 in the matchday squads, but was not needed there. Beaumont was in the EPS till his injury so is probably ahead of Morgan.

Jones has said that he thinks Cliffords best position for England in the long run will be 8. He likes ball playing forwards so not surprising that Clifford has caught his eye.

Morgan needs to improve his all round game. What he offers is so limited at current, he is a hell of a carrier so if he can offer more in defence and start using his bulk around the fringes as Billy has then he has every chance to get back in.

Will Beaumont be fit before the end of the season?

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Post by jamesandimac Sun 27 Mar 2016, 12:36 pm

Been thinking about Launchbury and where he fits into the side. Prior to the 6Ns, and for a couple of years now, Launchbury has been seen by many as our most nailed on player, probably the only one which was guaranteed a start hence the calls for his captaincy. Now what?

I like him a lot as a player and think he is one player who has worked class potential as a 4 but admittedly was lacking fitness during the 6Ns due to illness and a hamstring injury.

I would like to see him in the starting line up but then that would mean creating the space in the Itoje Kruis partnership. I would love to see all three start with Itoje at 6 but I can't see Itoje getting the consistent game time there for Sarries as his play at lock is top drawer.

Itoje has all the attributes for a great 6, strong in the tackle and carry, good over the ball and offers a great lineout option.

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Post by majesticimperialman Sun 27 Mar 2016, 7:12 pm

Since ED took over the England squad a lot of players was left out of the new England squad. Theire are too many to mention off the top of my head. But was thinking about Lutha Burrell. i personally think he was escape goated for big Sam Burgess.

Although i did not see him play today, the commentator said since being left out of the England squad he has played better. than he did before.

My point is, will any player that was in the England squad under Lancaster and left out of the ED squad. Ever get a chance to play for England again?

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Post by king_carlos Sun 27 Mar 2016, 7:30 pm

Burrell was called into the EPS when Devoto got injured, maj. His whining about not being selected after a much poorer 6 Nations at 12 (his usual position for Saints) than when he was at 13 may not have helped the coaches opinion of him though to be fair.

Jones has been blunt that if you play well enough then you'll be picked, if you aren't picked then play better.

If those guys who were dropped when EJ took over play well enough to get selected then I think he will give them their chance. Most of them I don't think have a chance though simply because they aren't good enough anymore and the younger players coming through who are already better than them will just keep improving even further.

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Post by yappysnap Sun 27 Mar 2016, 9:27 pm

jamesandimac wrote:Been thinking about Launchbury and where he fits into the side. Prior to the 6Ns, and for a couple of years now, Launchbury has been seen by many as our most nailed on player, probably the only one which was guaranteed a start hence the calls for his captaincy. Now what?

I like him a lot as a player and think he is one player who has worked class potential as a 4 but admittedly was lacking fitness during the 6Ns due to illness and a hamstring injury.

I would like to see him in the starting line up but then that would mean creating the space in the Itoje Kruis partnership. I would love to see all three start with Itoje at 6 but I can't see Itoje getting the consistent game time there for Sarries as his play at lock is top drawer.

Itoje has all the attributes for a great 6, strong in the tackle and carry, good over the ball and offers a great lineout option.

We can all pretty much guarantee that there'll be injuries too, I'd be very surprised if we often had to worry about fitting all three into the side when they're all fit and inform. And if we do then we get a brilliant bench option who can a. Play 30 odd mins and b. Know he'll get the chance to start the following game if he performs.

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Post by kingelderfield Mon 28 Mar 2016, 10:42 pm

The way I see it this. There are 2 over riding factors that top the priority list.

Firstly EJ has to develop our game to enable us to score more points than the SH teams. I know that may sound trite but basically that is it because what has been the status quo for some time now will not be sufficient. One way or another we have to develop a strategy that when executed means we score try's and lots of them.

Now how we do this is open to debate, we're obviously not the AB's or Oz, or for that matter RSA or Argentina, but we as England must learn to compete with them again.

My personal opinion is that we have to have the real option of a creative conductor at 10 in addition too a seismic proportion improvement in all elements of our game, forwards and backs. This is obviously not something that can be or will be achieved in one summer tour, however what EJ will learn all to soon is that his available time with the players - the time that he has to make all of these changes - is all to short and therefore he will have to make ever day count.

The second point which tops the list of priorities is 'Selection'. Now this is not a criticism of the 6N selection that was made with very little available time. No the point is this; firstly EJ must have the courage and opportunity to try new selections, new combinations etc. and the summer tour as well as the autumn internationals provide the best games to do it. However, secondly, and this does to some degree work with the first point, many of the players need a rest, they need the summer off as they have effectively been playing rugby since the beginning of the WC boot camp.

In fact I actually think that a considerable number of players, far more than just the obvious Youngs, Ford and Brown's of the squad should be rested, as I am saying pretty much all of the senior players should be rested and the squad should be given over to the future players who are either already challenging for selection or are on the cusp as well as the number of other senior players who missed out either by selection or injury from the 6N squad.

Therefore I would like and rather see another possible tour from hell, where opportunity is given its head, as opposed to very tired players being flogged beyond the sensible for what, the Cook cup or some other nonsense, which will, and lets not deny this, most probably incur exhausted bodies breaking down with avoidable injuries. There is no doubt in the correlation between fatigue and increases in serious injury.

So lets play the clever game. Take the opportunity to press the reset button and invest in the future by setting the bar at the required very high level, but lets rest and protect many of our senior players that will need to be in one piece come the start of the next 16/17 season.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Tue 29 Mar 2016, 1:21 pm

I think only those who EJ deems knackered will not travel.

He will want to really try for wins, and that means taking his strongest squad. There wont be large numbers of places up for grabs. But he will be looking at other areas of the team to fix.

I dare say even Browns position at FB might be looked at. I wouldn't be surprised to see Watson or Nowell getting a few mins at 15 over the 3 games.


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Post by GeordieFalcon Tue 29 Mar 2016, 1:34 pm

rozakthegoon wrote:http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/rugby/sam-underhill-flanker-who-flattened-jamie-roberts-is-england-s-next-big-hope-a3210011.html

Another bit of hype on underhill. Anyone seen him play?

Its interesting to see the similar hype being put on Underhill to that which came about Kruis. When he first came into the Sarries team he was playing at 6 (but we knew he'd be a lock) . In one game in particular against Munster he was absolutely brilliant.

Its taken some time, but if he can continue on from his 6n performances then Kruis will finally be producing the performances we hoped he would. It will be interesting to watch the summer tour.


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Post by Gooseberry Tue 29 Mar 2016, 1:37 pm

Cole, the Vunipolas, Robshaw, Farrell and Youngs have been without a proper break for a full cycle or longer.

Hartleys diciplinary record has given him a boost there at least.


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Post by GeordieFalcon Tue 29 Mar 2016, 2:23 pm

Id give Cole a break maybe.... purely as he's a penalty machine! Give Brookes and Hill the tour to share duties.

If its down to the players, then who wouldn't want to tour to OZ.

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Post by Rugby Fan Tue 29 Mar 2016, 2:33 pm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-3512954/England-plan-fast-track-rugby-league-convert-Ben-Te-o-union-squad-summer.html

Daily Mail pushing the line that Ben Te'o will get fast-tracked into the summer tour because he's moving to Worcester (he has an English mum, so already qualifies).

I tend to doubt that. The same article says Nathan Hughes will be available, when most say he won't. Also, just the other day, Dean Ryan was saying he won't be deemed to be back playing in England until he starts next season.

I don't doubt Jones will have an eye on him.

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Post by LondonTiger Tue 29 Mar 2016, 2:34 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Its interesting to see the similar hype being put on Underhill to that which came about Kruis. When he first came into the Sarries team he was playing at 6 (but we knew he'd be a lock) . In one game in particular against Munster he was absolutely brilliant.

You say Kruis, but this sounds an awful lot like Lawes.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Tue 29 Mar 2016, 2:51 pm

Could be either LT

But definitely when kruis came on the scene he was hyped up...and one match v Munster he was MOM and pretty much showed how good he could be.

Its taken time to come through (26 now) to England now though and put in the consistency that he has this 6n.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Tue 29 Mar 2016, 2:54 pm

Gooseberry wrote:Cole, the Vunipolas, Robshaw, Farrell and Youngs have been without a proper break for a full cycle or longer.

Hartleys diciplinary record has given him a boost there at least.


Could you see EJ starting the tests with out all of them??


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Post by Rugby Fan Tue 29 Mar 2016, 3:15 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:Cole, the Vunipolas, Robshaw, Farrell and Youngs have been without a proper break for a full cycle or longer.

Hartleys diciplinary record has given him a boost there at least.


Could you see EJ starting the tests with out all of them??
The Lions tour is next year. Anyone going on that seems to come back a wreck, so it seems worth giving players a break when we can. Even players who don't get selected for the Lions will likely get used by Jones on tour in Argentina.


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