Warren Gatland! ! !

Tells Martyn Williams that if he wants 100 Welsh Caps then he as to fight for the right to earn 100 caps.

What? What a cheek?

Martyn maybe gettinmg on a bit for an international player, But why should he have to fight for his 100 caps ?

Especialy when the likes of Shane Williams, Ryan Jones, plus 1/2 others have not been playing any where near true form, and still get in the Welsh squad.

Is this simply gatland being(AGEST) against Martyn Williams, simply because this year could well be his last year in the game?

Your thoughts please.

Of course he should have to fight for it. Caps should not just be given out without being earned, be it you 1st, 21st or 100th!

Jesus Christ almighty, give me strength. I don't know if you've noticed Madge, but we are not doing bad at 7 with Warburton. Yes he should fight for every cap. As Gatland said, you don't see the top sides handing out caps for sentimental reasons.

I love the way you contradict yourself by mentioning Shane Williams' form (obviously a youngster in your eyes) and then ask is Gatland AGEIST against Williams.

Risca, The point i was trying to make rergards Shane Williams and Martyn Williams is, Martyn may have lost a bit of speed but his work rate around tha park is incredible.

Shane Williams had lost all form 1year to eighting months ago but was still getting picked.

I was just about to post about this. Gatland's treatment of Martyn Williams has been disgraceful. He practically begged Williams to come out of international retirement after the World Cup and then later decides to drop Martyn and make him one of the scapegoats for Wales's poor form. He recently criticized him for not being an destructive and aggressive openside. Gatland should know like most knowledgable Welsh Rugby fans that Martyn Williams has NEVER been a destructive and aggressive openside and you cant teach an old dog new tricks and now he has to "fight for the right" for his 100 caps WTF ???

Martyn has been a fantastic servant for Welsh Rugby and does not deserve this shoddy treatment by Gatland. He can still do a job for Wales even by coming off the bench. Yet another howler by a man who's doing more harm than good to Welsh Rugby. Shame on you Warren Gatland!

Martyn is still a top player and he will be at the RWC on merit, It seems to me S Jones does not seem to worry about gaining caps and he is well past it.

100 caps is just a personal achievement but if it means a player has to stay on 99 because a youngster is playing better than him so be it.
There is no room for sentiment in international rugby.

I also was going to start a new topic about this until I seen this was covered, I think MW is going to have trouble getting to his century, because reading between the lines of that article, Gatland was unhappy he refused to go to NZ. I believe he should get to his hundred and be the understudy to SW for the World Cup. Not on sentiment but on form.

I'll wager Gatland doesn't take him to the World Cup.

Gatland doesn't owe him a living. I'm not Gatland's biggest fan by any stretch of the imagination, but just because he was needed 3 years ago, doesn't mean he is owed anything now. In my opinion, he shot himself in the foot (Williams) by not going to NZ. We also need to give players like Turnbull their opportunity.

Three out of four games in the World Cup and Williams is useless anyway. He won't have the physicality for SA, Samoa or Fiji.

I'll tell you my view of Martyn Williams. Was a good player, but I know who I would have been happier to see at 7 when Dragons played Blues. I was disappointed when Williams went to the Royal Wedding and Warburton started.

Sam Warburton should start ahead of Martyn Williams theres no doubt about that. However I believe that Martyn Williams is still good enough to play for Wales. People seem to think he has to start ahead of Warburton. He doesnt, he can do a job for Wales by coming on in the last 15/20 mins or so. You could start Williams ahead of Warburton for the Nambia game surely ???? What I object to is Gatland putting Martyn Williams on public trial. We all know what Martyn can and cant do so why does he have to prove himself still ? He deserves 100 caps not because of sentimental value and all that rudey poo but because he is STILL a good player. Gatland will make a mistake by not taking him IMO.

It really is simple. Warburton, Turnbull and Tipuric are all better players than Martyn now. What on earth is the point of having him as an understudy to his replacement (and current Wales captain). Anybody who was in Parc Y Scarlets will have seen that he is not now only outpaced (twas ever thus) but now is being outmuscled and outthought. The only thing he does now is infringe to make up for his inadequacies. If he was a greyhound he'd have been, erm, retired and saved by the greyhound trust, yes that's it.

The game has been taken away from Martyn in the last 2 or 3 years. The changes in the breakdown interpretation had gradually made the weakest part of Martyn's game the MOST important part of an International 7's armoury.

Like it or not, Physicality is ALL for a 7 now and Martyn simply isnt able to compete one on one. He is still a MAGNIFICENT supporting 7, but he isnt even first choice for his region anymore.

I would love to have seen him reach 100 caps, few players have served Wales so well, but I fear it is unlikely unless Wales have severe injury problems or Gatland DOES award him a cap from the Bench in one of the warm up matches for sentiment's sake.

Martyn Will go to the World Cup and will probably play against Namibia and maybe make a cameo appearance against Samoa or Fiji.
Gatland is just trying to keep him interested in Wales and not to lose heart.
Wales Needed Williams to hang around a few years ago as simply at the time we didn't have a 7 anywhere to replace him, luckily Warburton has stuck his hand up and made the jersey his own.

MRtyn Williams is past it now. I'm just glad that we have an outstanding talent in warburtom to replace him.
Personally I think warren gatland should be picking priestland at 10. Pristland was picked in the 6 nations squad ahead of biggar and Tovey. Now I'm not saying that I think he's better than those two, but clearly warren gatland does. I just feel that Ireland have brought through sexton and exposed him to test match rugby, although he's had more than a few shaky moments. England have shown faith in flood and look what's it's done for them. However Wales have persisted with Stephen jones. Yes he's been a great servant blah blah blah, but the guy is so easy to read as he offers no threat himself. He can kick well and put others in good positions with his reading of the game, but ge doesn't pose a threat as his limited pace had now completely gone.
Just look what happened in the 6n. Jones had a poor performance against England, so what did gatland do? Pick a player who hadn't played 10 for 2 years. Luckily for him hook is a class act and seems to be able to turn his Gand to whatever he's asked to do.
But come on. This is a great chance to see what another 10 cab do on Saturday. We know what jones can offer.

Y big worry is that if jones gets injured before or during the WC which is highly possible, he gas to turn to hook as he's nit brought through another 10. I feel that the last autumn series was ideal for fringe players to play and Toby faletau should have definateky been capped by now, but gatland was too desperate trying to improve his dire run that he went with the same old dross. I feel he's left it all too Kate and hasn't looked at the bigger picture, but just the next game.

I think he will go to the RWC. There will be times when his experience, coming on from the bench, could prove invaluable.

If they are handing out caps for a reduced squad game againt the barabarians then 100 doesnt mean that much anyway.

Any player should have to fight for them. It would mean even less if they picked Williams as a sub just to get him 100 caps. Its not an acheivement if you are just handed them to make you feel happy rather than on merit.

Theres a big difference between Martyns gradual decline and a temporary slump for Shane Whatshisname. Hes past it and there are people better and fitter than him available, so to get poicked he has to play in a way and get to a levelof fitness that justifies inclussion.

Gatland is a gobshine and the way this is shock headlined in the press is very nice but t doenst mean hes wrong.

On form I'd sooner see Gavin Thomas go to the WC than Martyn Williams. He has been superb for the dragons this season. Although his pop at the blues and ospreys stars may mean that he's resigned himself to no more caps for his country.

Maj,

Glad to see you have persistent with your ignorant interest in welsh rugby!

Martin Williams has a great opportunity to claim a spot going head o head against the man in pole position, it is a wonderful opportunity to see the differences good and bad in both players.

maestegmafia wrote:Maj,

Glad to see you have persistent with your ignorant interest in welsh rugby!

Martin Williams has a great opportunity to claim a spot going head o head against the man in pole position, it is a wonderful opportunity to see the differences good and bad in both players.

And he took it too, the amount of "blocks" he did in that game and got away with was astounding, hes a bloody master at cheating!

Bit rich of Gatland to tell a player like Williams, who never stops trying, to fight for a cap and then give one to a bloke like Henson who stopped trying years ago and looked disinterested on Saturday. You'd expect a bloke fighting for his last shot at a club and country place to be pulling up trees wouldn't you?

Maybe Gatland includes fighting performances in French bars in his definition. Then again, when was the last time anything Gatland says in the media make sense?

NewTraditionalHaka wrote:Bit rich of Gatland to tell a player like Williams, who never stops trying, to fight for a cap and then give one to a bloke like Henson who stopped trying years ago and looked disinterested on Saturday. You'd expect a bloke fighting for his last shot at a club and country place to be pulling up trees wouldn't you?

Maybe Gatland includes fighting performances in French bars in his definition. Then again, when was the last time anything Gatland says in the media make sense?

So you obviously didn't bother to read the thread?

Newtradkaka

Hmmm..! Fairpoint, but I thought Henson was a valid experiment, and may it continue.

Wales don't have many top class players at the moment, Henson on form is very good. If Gatland and his men can get Henson back to form for the world cup he will be a valuable asset to Wales and could make a big difference.

Martyn Williams doesn't look like he has too many games left in him, he has a lot of competition from some decent open sides in Warburton and Turnbull. So I think Gatland is right to encourage him to fight for his spot.

Surely he would have done the same with steve Jones had Hook, the current choice flyhalf have been available.

Likewise, though Henson deserves certain grace, to give him opportunity to gain form with game time in some competitive fixtures. Luckily Wales have some decent centers who are currently playing better than Henson like Scott Williams and too another degree Jamie Roberts and Jon Davies.

So I don't think Gatland is being contradictory, rather he is being quite sensible.

All will prevail with time.

Until then Gavin Henson has plenty of time to train and get himself back to form and martyn Williams has time to prove that he is fighting the good fight and hopefully worthy of a century of caps.

Maesteg, Henson has had plenty of time to train already - and he's got precious little potential game time available to gain form. Some people seem to cream themselves simply because he completes a pass these days. It just smacks of desperation since Henson has been playing his best rugby with his mouth for years now.

Take your point that it was a valid experiment by Gats to play him - but still think the bloke is digging huge holes for himself in the sheds by saying one thing to some players & cutting large amounts of slack to others.

ML, your comment and little picture man make no sense to me. Please explain.

Newtradhaka mate,

I thought the introduction of Scott Williams and Tavis Knoyle was of greater excitement than Hensons passing. Not To discredit what he did well.

The hyperbol and sensationalism surrounding stories about Henson are generally imaginative media led fabrications of hearsay and rumours. He looked very downhearted after the match and had a realistic appraisal of his performance. As you agree it's a worthy experiment to give a player in his situation a bit more leeway than is usual.

A better example for your previous post would have been Huw Bennett who has never shown any form, has been almost unselected at regional level but still gets selected in the welsh squads, very bizarre!

Gatland has been very on the ball in selecting youth talent over the 2010-11 season that has just finished. Almost all welsh fans were very pleased with the squads he selected.

How worrying that we have 3 warm
Up famesbefore the WC and we don't know our midfield combination. It's been a problem for a couple of years. Wales' best player yesterday, Toby faletau should have been capped a year ago.
Why hasn't warren gatland used the last 4 years to build a team for the WC? He's persisted with the old guard too long and must now be bridling ot as there is so much undecided.

manofgwent wrote:How worrying that we have 3 warm
Up famesbefore the WC and we don't know our midfield combination. It's been a problem for a couple of years. Wales' best player yesterday, Toby faletau should have been capped a year ago.
Why hasn't warren gatland used the last 4 years to build a team for the WC? He's persisted with the old guard too long and must now be bridling ot as there is so much undecided.

To be fair, in the midfield Gatland has tried most of the likely candidates without much success. We have a number of quality players, but no pairing has gelled. Personally I think that is because of the poor quality of the service received from 9 & 10 in the last 18 months, but we dont have a scrumhalf playing well enough to sort that out, nor a flyhalf who is both arrogant enough to boss his team mates AND gifted enough to make the right decisions at the right time.

Toby Faletau has forced his way into the team - but to say he should have been capped a year ago is looking at things with 20/20 hindsight. He was a promising player 12 months ago - but hadnt done enough to break into what was a pretty settled group of back row players. It is only this season that he has raised his game to levels that could not be ignored.

You can't really say any of the present-day top sides haven't got a physical and abrasive openside. McCaw, Pocock, Juan Smith, David Wallace, not just beasts but some of the craftiest operators you'll come across on the floor.

Warburton has already surpassed Martyn Williams by miles on the physical scale and could be considered equal, if not slightly better, in terms of technical skill. Williams chooses to very rarely get mixed up with the bloodiest parts of the game and as a result tends to go missing for long periods of time.

Although sadly I have to agree concerning Gatland's shocking double standards. When he first took over form was first and the 15 best were starting (barring the odd tactical change). This is not the case now as the continued inclusion of players like Bennett and Henson prove.

ML. Sorry I didn't mean stead, but faletau should have been capped in the autumn when he was in the squad without any game time.

When Wales started to play some rugby yesterday after some mass substitution Warbuton tried to play a few passes and most of them went to the floor whereas Williams would have pulled off these passes. Maybe Turnbull, Warbuton and Tipuric are in front of Williams in the pecking order, but they are all similar players and its always good to have diversity in a squad.

Martyn is finished.

manofgwent wrote:Martyn is finished.

....................................................................................................................................................
Atleast Martyn as a club/region to play for.

Unlike the orange one right.

Well - I predicted months ago that Williams might not play again for Wales. 100 caps close or not, every player should have to fight for his next cap and he's no exception.

That's got nothing to do with the fact that every time Gatland opens his month he proved himself an even bigger fool! He's contratdictory and an idiot.

I agree that Williams has to earn the next two caps and I doubt he himself would want to get given them out of sympathy.

However for Gatland to say he must earn them while at the same time he gives caps away to the likes of Bennett is a bit hard to swallow.

Bedford, I think everyone aggrees with you on Bennett mate! He must have something on Gatland!

Is it ageist to suggest that Williams is clearly nowhere near as effective as Warburton these days?.....Cos most would just call that the plain truth!

And what's Bennet got to do with it?!

Plank!

Adam - I don't think it was necessary to add that word to the end of your post.

I think most would agree that for a modern 7, Warburton is a lot more effective at the moment then Williams. However as someone else has pointed out Warburton's handling skills are still far off Williams'. I reckon Martyn still has something to offer for Wales, it can't hurt to have a completely different option to choose I don't think.

Adam,

Bennett has loads to do with it considering Gatlnd quoted de-valuing a cap, he devalues the cap everytime he picks Bennett.

The guy is 2nd if not third choice at his Region and is NOWHERE near good enough to be 1st or 2nd choice for Wales.