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Marler out

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funnyExiledScot
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Post by hugehandoff Wed 18 May 2016, 6:36 pm

Just saw on the BBC that Marler has ruled himself out of the Aussie tour as he is not in a position to do himself or the team justice. I wish him and all other players suffering a speedy recovery. The body and mind does require a break every now and then and hopefully the Lions will benefit from seeing a few rejuvenated players return to top form next season.

Of course this also provides an opportunity to another player. Mako struggles in the scrums so I would like to see someone stronger in that department go on tour. Waller or Jake Cooper-Woolly?

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Post by yappysnap Wed 18 May 2016, 6:38 pm

clap

Great to hear he's taking care of himself and hope he comes back a better player.

He has a kid, and some ducks that I'm sure he wants to spend time with too.

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Post by lostinwales Wed 18 May 2016, 7:24 pm

Is Mullan the next on the list?

Good decision. Just hope that Eddie is canny enough to accept it as such and not hold it against Marler going forward.

Because of the RWC training last summer there must be a few guys who have been playing almost non stop for far too long. It would be surprising if it was only Marler

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Post by GeordieFalcon Wed 18 May 2016, 9:27 pm

Mullan, Mako, Waller. Maybe even Auterac despite baths season

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Post by Barney McGrew did it Wed 18 May 2016, 9:53 pm

Turns out Joe's going caravanning for the summer
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Post by bedfordwelsh Wed 18 May 2016, 10:03 pm

Don't forget he was a a mentor to the kid who died last week so bet that has hit him quite hard as well.
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Post by Cumbrian Thu 19 May 2016, 8:50 am

I always wondered if he might burn himself out, he's basically played rugby without a real break for 18 months. That must play hell with any player's body, let alone a prop. Although I suspect Bedford may be on the money, tragic events make one more likely to reflect on what is important in life. I believe Joe has a young family, it is best that he physically and mentally recharges his batteries.

It gives England a problem at loosehead for the Wales game. Both first choice players will be missing (assuming Mako is in the final with Sarries).
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Post by EST Thu 19 May 2016, 8:58 am

In light of discussions around moving the 6N, the Corbisiero interview and now Marler taking this summer off, there seems to be a growing discussion regarding player welfare and 'overplaying' our key players.

I think most people here would agree that there are too many fixtures in the calendar, it will be fascinating to see how the global rugby community deals with this problem (if it does at all), in an increasingly complicated landscape.

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Post by Poorfour Thu 19 May 2016, 9:02 am

Eddie's comments on the Telegraph were pretty supportive - even describing his 6N performance as exceptional. I think he's established that in terms of all-round performance he hasn't yet got a direct rival for Marler. Mako is a great impact sub but isn't a strong enough scrummager to start against the better sides.

While it's a shame not to have him available, I think a break will do him a huge amount of good and he will be back stronger next year. It also shows growing maturity to recognise that he needs the break - which suggests that he's making progress in sorting his issues.

I'd expect him to have to fight for his place in the AIs. I'd also expect him to win it back.
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Post by beshocked Thu 19 May 2016, 9:11 am

EST completely agree.

Player burnout is a real problem.

Think Marler is doing the right thing by taking the summer off.


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Post by Alex_Germany Thu 19 May 2016, 9:15 am

Is Marler out for the Wales game as well as the Aussie tour?

If I were EJ - given the weakened team, I'd be tempted to ask him for one more match (v Wales) and then he can take long holiday in the Azores, which I'd guess is about as far from Australia as you can get.

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Post by lostinwales Thu 19 May 2016, 9:26 am

Alex_Germany wrote:Is Marler out for the Wales game as well as the Aussie tour?

If I were EJ - given the weakened team, I'd be tempted to ask him for one more match (v Wales) and then he can take long holiday in the Azores, which I'd guess is about as far from Australia as you can get.

He is out of the Wales match.

I wonder if there is a case for some sort of mandatory 3 month complete break every 5 years or so

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Post by Golden Thu 19 May 2016, 9:30 am

Barney McGrew did it wrote:Turns out Joe's going caravanning for the summer



laughing


Think its a good decision and something more players should look at doing.

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Post by bedfordwelsh Thu 19 May 2016, 10:03 am

lostinwales wrote:
Alex_Germany wrote:Is Marler out for the Wales game as well as the Aussie tour?

If I were EJ - given the weakened team, I'd be tempted to ask him for one more match (v Wales) and then he can take long holiday in the Azores, which I'd guess is about as far from Australia as you can get.

He is out of the Wales match.

I wonder if there is a case for some sort of mandatory 3 month complete break every 5 years or so

It would be well worth looking at and at a lesser period than 5 years. When you look at someone like lets say Faletau as he seem quite lucky with injury hes been pretty much on the go since 2012 and is likely to be going for the next 18 months to.
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Post by beshocked Thu 19 May 2016, 11:12 am

bedfordwelsh it's up to Wales to develop another no 8 or two to allow Faletau to have a break.

Marler can have a break because there's Mako,Mullan,Waller,Auterac etc.

England need to continue to develop other positions too to take the workload off some of the players.

I think a summer off for all the Quins guys would benefit them all - Brown,Robshaw and Marler have all been stalwarts of Lancaster's England. Maybe Care too.

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Post by propdavid_london Thu 19 May 2016, 11:45 am

There was some discussion with Corbs a week back suggesting that players are likely to start taking breaks from Rugby.
Perhaps this is the start of a trend....especially with front rowers where the pressures on body are much more attritional.

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Post by fa0019 Thu 19 May 2016, 12:30 pm

this whole Marler episode reminded me of Bakkies Botha after he got banned for headbutting Jimmy Cowan.

This is what he actually said

"I can't get too involved in lashing out or punishing the guy on the opposition who is perhaps killing the ball, or throwing himself about a bit. After all: if you wish to experience peace, provide peace for another. I tried to share that bit of wisdom with Victor Matfield last week but he just called me a big girl and told me to 'man up'."

Victor Matfield... the only man in rugby to ever be able to tell Bakkies Botha to man up. What a legend.

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Post by VinceWLB Thu 19 May 2016, 1:27 pm

Too afraid to get his arse handled to him on a plate by Samson Lee once again.

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Post by sad_gimp Thu 19 May 2016, 1:34 pm

Good for him taking a break, it's been a rough end to the season and with his new kid and dealing with the death of Seb last week no doubt the right thing to do.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 19 May 2016, 1:37 pm

And winning a GS for the trouble Vince.

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Post by Jimpy Thu 19 May 2016, 2:02 pm

VinceWLB wrote:Too afraid to get his arse handled to him on a plate by Samson Lee once again.

On his way to a Grand Slam, and a house that isn't on wheels.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 19 May 2016, 2:05 pm

Feel a bit of a **** now my comment has been replicated by Jimpy, albeit without the mild racism.

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Post by SecretFly Thu 19 May 2016, 2:14 pm

Joe has had his Annus Horribilis. It's been kicked all over the place. So he's right to dip it in some azure pure sea to cool it down for a month or two.

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Post by TJ Thu 19 May 2016, 2:59 pm

EST wrote:In light of discussions around moving the 6N, the Corbisiero interview and now Marler taking this summer off, there seems to be a growing discussion regarding player welfare and 'overplaying' our key players.

I think most people here would agree that there are too many fixtures in the calendar, it will be fascinating to see how the global rugby community deals with this problem (if it does at all), in an increasingly complicated landscape.

I suspect we may end up in a situation like cricket -where the internationals are only seen for their county teams if they are playing back into form / after injury/ need match practice

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Post by Recwatcher16 Thu 19 May 2016, 3:24 pm

Given that Mako and Mullan are in the playoffs and now that Hatley is in charge of scrums, what odds on young Auterac given the chance against Lee ? - would love too see that. He has already had Ross of Leinster on his heels this season, who couldn't cope with his power. Needs to improve his presence around the pitch but would cope comfortably with any scrum. One to watch.

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Post by Cyril Thu 19 May 2016, 3:52 pm

TJ wrote:
EST wrote:In light of discussions around moving the 6N, the Corbisiero interview and now Marler taking this summer off, there seems to be a growing discussion regarding player welfare and 'overplaying' our key players.

I think most people here would agree that there are too many fixtures in the calendar, it will be fascinating to see how the global rugby community deals with this problem (if it does at all), in an increasingly complicated landscape.

I suspect we may end up in a situation like cricket -where the internationals are only seen for their county teams if they are playing back into form / after injury/ need match practice
I would hate that. Club rugby is the lifeblood of the game. Central contracts, while possibly an option for protecting internationals, would dilute the core of the game. Club rugby and the loyal fans deserve better. We're in danger of the tail wagging the dog.

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Post by EST Thu 19 May 2016, 4:29 pm

Cyril wrote:
TJ wrote:
EST wrote:In light of discussions around moving the 6N, the Corbisiero interview and now Marler taking this summer off, there seems to be a growing discussion regarding player welfare and 'overplaying' our key players.

I think most people here would agree that there are too many fixtures in the calendar, it will be fascinating to see how the global rugby community deals with this problem (if it does at all), in an increasingly complicated landscape.

I suspect we may end up in a situation like cricket -where the internationals are only seen for their county teams if they are playing back into form / after injury/ need match practice
I would hate that. Club rugby is the lifeblood of the game. Central contracts, while possibly an option for protecting internationals, would dilute the core of the game. Club rugby and the loyal fans deserve better. We're in danger of the tail wagging the dog.

There are so many factors at play, and its only going to become increasingly complicated as the money in the club game continues to grow, with pressure being applied from chairmen, broadcasters, International managers etc etc, all wanting a piece of the pie. I don't know what the answer is, but I think the most sensible place to start is to look at a global season. Although I am very doubtful that if the people in power will be willing to make concessions.

Personally, I think these summer tours are superfluous and would be quite happy for them not to be going ahead.

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Post by Recwatcher16 Thu 19 May 2016, 4:47 pm

The number of tests have to decrease and the leagues drop LV cup type competitions would be the best bet.
Players getting 50 caps before they are 25 devalues Tests and the June tours are the most obvious one to go - from a NH perspective....

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 19 May 2016, 5:04 pm

I'd be happy to see our Autumn internationals go, too. The southern-hemisphere sides can go back to touring once in a blue moon and it would be a big deal again.

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Post by fa0019 Thu 19 May 2016, 5:32 pm

Recwatcher16 wrote:The number of tests have to decrease and the leagues drop LV cup type competitions would be the best bet.
Players getting 50 caps before they are 25 devalues Tests and the June tours are the most obvious one to go - from a NH perspective....

Something like Joe Worsley already had 50 before he was ever considered a first choice player.

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Post by The Great Aukster Thu 19 May 2016, 6:16 pm

Recwatcher16 wrote:The number of tests have to decrease and the leagues drop LV cup type competitions would be the best bet.
Players getting 50 caps before they are 25 devalues Tests and the June tours are the most obvious one to go - from a NH perspective....

If the number of Tests decrease where do the Unions get the replacement funds to plough into grass roots rugby?

The number of caps have increased dramatically with the increased bench size - especially front rows that always get subbed under the new Laws. That has little to do with the number of Tests being played, and is a good thing for player welfare and for the spectator.

It is high time the clubs started managing their players better rather than just keep playing them until they break down. If they don't start introducing playing time quotas voluntarily they can look forward to them being imposed by World Rugby sooner or later.

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Post by TJ Thu 19 May 2016, 7:36 pm

summer tours IMO should be development tours - playing lessor nations in their own countries. That would do good for the game globally. autumn internationals could be go that way a bit as well - Say england send a team to the pacific nations for a 4 -6 game tour but give some of the players with a heavier workload the summer off. autumn internationals could be one or two smaller nations again with a lessor squad then the full squad for the remaining match(s) against a tier one nation. NO money in it in the short term tho but just think how well it would be received in the pacific if they had a major team touring every yeaar even if a development of B side

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Post by TJ Thu 19 May 2016, 7:38 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:
It is high time the clubs started managing their players better rather than just keep playing them until they break down. If they don't start introducing playing time quotas voluntarily they can look forward to them being imposed by World Rugby sooner or later.

But the pro 12 teams get slated for doing this. The top internationals only play around half the club games or less.

25 games is enough for any player IMO

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Post by Recwatcher16 Thu 19 May 2016, 10:55 pm

TJ - This is off topic but if there is a 25 game limit and there are 15 Tests per season that means only 10 club games, which includes euro games.

Apparently Heaslip has played 6 games for Leinster this season. Only one example but that is some rotation and folk wonder why fans don't turn up through the turnstiles and the Pro12 is being left behind financially.

Professional sport has to be ground up not top down.

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Post by The Great Aukster Fri 20 May 2016, 12:28 am

TJ wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:
It is high time the clubs started managing their players better rather than just keep playing them until they break down. If they don't start introducing playing time quotas voluntarily they can look forward to them being imposed by World Rugby sooner or later.

But the pro 12 teams get slated for doing this.  The top internationals only play around half the club games or less.

25 games is enough for any player IMO

Not true TJ. It was only the Irish teams that got slated for doing this mainly because they were successful on the pitch and paradoxically also with large gates who didn't give a fig about what "stars" were on the pitch. Players need to be managed as it provides a far better spectacle when they are fit and firing rather than watching knackered players going through the motions as seems to be the desire in other Leagues.

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Post by TJ Fri 20 May 2016, 8:43 am

to go back to the topic - Good for marler for standing up in public and saying that he needed a break

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Post by beshocked Fri 20 May 2016, 9:04 am

The Great Aukster the Irish teams have a reputation of treating the Pro12 as a 2nd rate competition bar derby games with their bread and butter being the HC. Also qualification for the HC was handed to you on a platter so didn't need to try as hard in the Pro12.

This is supported by the case of Heaslip - 6/22 Pro12 appearances but 5 ERCC appearances.....

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Post by Jimpy Fri 20 May 2016, 9:43 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Feel a bit of a **** now my comment has been replicated by Jimpy, albeit without the mild racism.

Racism? Get a life.

On the other hand, I bet you don't feel as much as a **** as VinceWLB for suggesting that Marler was outplayed by Lee - because that really was a stupid statement.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 20 May 2016, 9:47 am

Aim for another ban Jimpy. You can do it.

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Post by Jimpy Fri 20 May 2016, 9:49 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Aim for another ban Jimpy. You can do it.

Just. Get. A. Life.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 20 May 2016, 10:22 am

Stop using your own stupid prejudice as humour.

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Post by pheonix Fri 20 May 2016, 10:45 am

Good on Joe Marler for being honest and speaking up, it makes you wonder how many more players want to do the same. The only down-side is Mako starting in Oz.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 20 May 2016, 10:49 am

It also makes you wonder how many more players are pressurised into not doing the same.

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Post by beshocked Fri 20 May 2016, 11:02 am

Luckless Pedestrian if everyone did the same you'd have no international side!

Marler has a very valid excuse - best for him to get out of the limelight for a while.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 20 May 2016, 11:05 am

I'm thinking this summer in particular. World Cup last year, Lions tour next year - it's too much rugby without players having a break.

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Post by SecretFly Fri 20 May 2016, 11:44 am

The price of glory folks. Try tell Jones the English players are tired and need a break.................... and here's the platter on which to put your head when coming away from that meeting.

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Post by Rory_Gallagher Fri 20 May 2016, 11:45 am

beshocked wrote:The Great Aukster the Irish teams have a reputation of treating the Pro12 as a 2nd rate competition bar derby games with their bread and butter being the HC. Also qualification for the HC was handed to you on a platter so didn't need to try as hard in the Pro12.

This is supported by the case of Heaslip - 6/22 Pro12 appearances but 5 ERCC appearances.....

Yet 3 Irish teams feature in the play-offs and all 4 finished within the top 6. Interesting.

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Post by SecretFly Fri 20 May 2016, 11:49 am

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
beshocked wrote:The Great Aukster the Irish teams have a reputation of treating the Pro12 as a 2nd rate competition bar derby games with their bread and butter being the HC. Also qualification for the HC was handed to you on a platter so didn't need to try as hard in the Pro12.

This is supported by the case of Heaslip - 6/22 Pro12 appearances but 5 ERCC appearances.....

Yet 3 Irish teams feature in the play-offs and all 4 finished within the top 6. Interesting.

Shush damn it, Rory! They'll change the rules again if they hear that.... Wink

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Post by Exiledinborders Fri 20 May 2016, 1:52 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I'm thinking this summer in particular. World Cup last year, Lions tour next year - it's too much rugby without players having a break.
The obvious answer is to scrap the Lions.

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Post by Blueschief Fri 20 May 2016, 2:26 pm

Good for you Joe, looking after your physical and mental health is a priority. Can't help but respect him for it.

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