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New Zealand v Wales, 11 June

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Post by George Carlin Thu 02 Jun 2016, 7:04 am

First topic message reminder :

New Zealand v Wales, 11 June - Page 4 All_bl10       New Zealand v Wales, 11 June - Page 4 Wales_10 
NEW ZEALAND v WALES
11 June 2016
19:35 NZST (UTC+12)
Eden Park, Auckland

Live on [tbc]

Referee: Wayne Barnes (England)
Touch judges: [tbc]
Television match official: [tbc]

A. Head to Head

30 Played 30
27 Won 3
0 Drawn 0
3 Lost 27
916 Points 307

B. Recent Form

22 November 2014 - Millennium Stadium, Cardiff: 16 – 34 to New Zealand

24 November 2012 - Millennium Stadium, Cardiff: 10 – 33 to New Zealand

27 November 2010 - Millennium Stadium, Cardiff: 25 – 37 to New Zealand

26 June 2010 - Waikato Stadium, Hamilton: 29 – 10 to New Zealand

19 June 2010 - Carisbrook, Dunedin: 42 – 9 to New Zealand

7 November 2009 - Millennium Stadium, Cardiff: 12 – 19 to New Zealand

C. Teams

NEW ZEALAND
New Zealand v Wales, 11 June - Page 4 Kieren10
01. Joe Moody
02. Dane Coles
03. Owen Franks
04. Luke Romano
05. Brodie Retallick
06. Jerome Kaino
07. Sam Cane
08. Kieran Read – captain

09. Aaron Smith
10. Aaron Cruden
11. Julian Savea
12. Ryan Crotty
13. Malakai Fekitoa
14. Waisake Naholo
15. Ben Smith

16. Nathan Harris
17. Wyatt Crockett
18. Charlie Faumuina
19. Patrick Tuipulotu
20. Ardie Savea
21. TJ Perenara
22. Beauden Barrett
23. Seta Tamanivalu

WALES
New Zealand v Wales, 11 June - Page 4 Sam_wa10
01.Gethin Jenkins
02.Ken Owens
03.Samson Lee
04.Bradley Davies
05.Alun Wyn Jones
06.Ross Moriarty
07.Sam Warburton (captain)
08.Taulupe Faletau

09.Rhys Webb
10.Dan Biggar
11.Hallam Amos,
12.Jamie Roberts
13.Jonathan Davies
14.George North
15.Liam Williams.

16.Scott Baldwin
17.Rob Evans
18.Tomas Francis
19.Jake Ball
20.Ellis Jenkins
21.Gareth Davies
22.Gareth Anscombe
23.Scott Williams


Last edited by George Carlin on Thu 09 Jun 2016, 7:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by offload Sat 11 Jun 2016, 10:26 am

Wales once again can't convert on the line.
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Post by Biltong Sat 11 Jun 2016, 10:26 am

Giod game, well played both teams
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Post by mikey_dragon Sat 11 Jun 2016, 10:26 am

I think ABs might still score here. They've been awesome in this final quarter. I'm thinking the following tests will go similar to today's.

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Post by mikey_dragon Sat 11 Jun 2016, 10:27 am

offload wrote:Wales once again can't convert on the line.

Individual errors from the subs. Words need to be had, or just axe them.

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Post by Scottrf Sat 11 Jun 2016, 10:27 am

Excellent game. Well played Wales.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 11 Jun 2016, 10:28 am

Not enough composure at the end of each half. Wales will be kicking themselves.

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Post by nathan Sat 11 Jun 2016, 10:30 am

Biltong wrote:Barnes not at his best, a number of blatant errors
I think your completely wrong, yeah I think that try wasn't forward and he missed an offside (which could of been the AR's fault) but I thought he had a good game.

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Post by offload Sat 11 Jun 2016, 10:31 am

If you blow a couple of chances and miss 20 tackles you don't win test matches, especially against the best in the world. Good play from Wales in parts but still a big gap in class.
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Post by TightHEAD Sat 11 Jun 2016, 10:34 am

The very long wait continues.............
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Post by nathan Sat 11 Jun 2016, 10:34 am

Tactics wise I thought Wales were far better today, thought they were kicking a bit too much though

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sat 11 Jun 2016, 10:34 am

Unlucky Wales.

Cracking game for 60mins but the AB's just keep it going at that high tempo for the full 80. Certainly nothing to be ashamed of and the scoreline flatters the home side.

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Post by Guest Sat 11 Jun 2016, 10:37 am

Soooooo..... after much bluster and some good play for 1 half ultimately we've still been given a good old fashioned d*cking. Pretty much 40-20. That's not evem close. Nothing changes.

Just hope Welsh fans don't go over the top in self congratulation for being 'plucky losers', or claiming that each won one half each, won the first 60 mins, etc.

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Post by Biltong Sat 11 Jun 2016, 10:40 am

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Unlucky Wales.

Cracking game for 60mins but the AB's just keep it going at that high tempo for the full 80. Certainly nothing to be ashamed of and the scoreline flatters the home side.

Should have been 46-21, so no the scoreline isn't flattering the home side.

Wales played well for 60 minutes.
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Post by Guest Sat 11 Jun 2016, 10:42 am

My prediction a few days ago wasn't too far off the mark either:

"Really don't know what to expect, apart from no Wales win. Sorry but I am an eternal pessimist. First game up if we get everything spot on then it could be within a score. But we are always quite soft and get injuries very easily so, with this being the end of our season and already missing a few, I expect us to keep it close for 30 mins, lose a few players early during the game to injury, bring on replacements well before we'd planned, lose our shape and go down to some late scores, with us probably scoring little or nothing second half.

NZ 34-17 Wales."

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sat 11 Jun 2016, 10:44 am

Biltong wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:Unlucky Wales.

Cracking game for 60mins but the AB's just keep it going at that high tempo for the full 80. Certainly nothing to be ashamed of and the scoreline flatters the home side.

Should have been 46-21, so no the scoreline isn't flattering the home side.

Wales played well for 60 minutes.

Should have, could have.....

New Zealand weren't 18pts better than Wales imo, that's what I meant by flatter.

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Post by offload Sat 11 Jun 2016, 10:46 am

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
Biltong wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:Unlucky Wales.

Cracking game for 60mins but the AB's just keep it going at that high tempo for the full 80. Certainly nothing to be ashamed of and the scoreline flatters the home side.

Should have been 46-21, so no the scoreline isn't flattering the home side.

Wales played well for 60 minutes.

Should have, could have.....

New Zealand weren't 18pts better than Wales imo, that's what I meant by flatter.

They were 18 points better. Comfortable win over 80 mins which is how long the game lasts.
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Post by Guest Sat 11 Jun 2016, 10:47 am

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
Biltong wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:Unlucky Wales.

Cracking game for 60mins but the AB's just keep it going at that high tempo for the full 80. Certainly nothing to be ashamed of and the scoreline flatters the home side.

Should have been 46-21, so no the scoreline isn't flattering the home side.

Wales played well for 60 minutes.

Should have, could have.....

New Zealand weren't 18pts better than Wales imo, that's what I meant by flatter.

They were though (well, 17) cos that's what the scoreboard says.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sat 11 Jun 2016, 10:53 am

Because the scoreboard always tells the full story of the game.....

I'm not suggesting Wales deserved the win but it was a closer game that the scoreline for me.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Sat 11 Jun 2016, 10:59 am

However well we played in the first half, three points in the second is pretty lousy.

The better team won, no question.

I'm happy that we actually did play some rugby after saying we would. Now to keep playing rugby, and not reverting to type when we're ahead!

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Post by Guest Sat 11 Jun 2016, 11:03 am

Is there any other international team that is as leaky as us in the later stages of the game? Especially against the SANZAR teams. We always seem to be clinging on for dear life in the final quarter during these tours and more often than not the flood gates open.

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Post by Biltong Sat 11 Jun 2016, 11:05 am

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:However well we played in the first half, three points in the second is pretty lousy.

The better team won, no question.

I'm happy that we actually did play some rugby after saying we would. Now to keep playing rugby, and not reverting to type when we're ahead!

Yeah agree with that, Warburton admitted and acknowledged Wales must take it to New Zealand, but then they only did for 40minutes
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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Sat 11 Jun 2016, 11:06 am

Plus New Zealand improved, there's no denying that.

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Post by mikey_dragon Sat 11 Jun 2016, 11:31 am

Agree LP, wonder how we would fair in the AI series and 6N if we played with the same attitude? Evidently we're still suffering from depth issues. I thought the subs who came on were less committed and lacking in basic skills.

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Post by Knowsit17 Sat 11 Jun 2016, 12:04 pm

Glad I didn't get up for this one. Plucky Wales hold a rusty side at bay for a time before getting blown away when it counts. There's a phenomenon we haven't seen a thousand times before.

Well done NZ, I expect the remaining tests to be a lot more one-sided now they've come through the warm-up.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Sat 11 Jun 2016, 12:06 pm

You really should watch the match.

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Post by offload Sat 11 Jun 2016, 12:17 pm

Knowsit17 wrote:Glad I didn't get up for this one. Plucky Wales hold a rusty side at bay for a time before getting blown away when it counts. There's a phenomenon we haven't seen a thousand times before.

Well done NZ, I expect the remaining tests to be a lot more one-sided now they've come through the warm-up.

There's nothing like a witness account from someone who didn't see it.
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Post by Knowsit17 Sat 11 Jun 2016, 12:24 pm

What for? Watching Wales encourage a little false hope by gaining a lead only to squander it later through stupid play? Keeping the eyes out for glimmers of brilliance in a largely incomplete performance? Or how about watching players go back on their word, talking about cutting loose and taking risks before the game only to sit on slender, unsustainable margins every time they eek ahead on the scores.

There is literally nothing new there. I realise I'm being unbearably pessimistic but I don't see the point of kidding myself. I said after the last England game there was no point tuning in to watch Wales collapse in some shape or form and so far nothing suggests I was wrong. Wales might as well fly home early for all they'll achieve. Perhaps a slot on the front page of 'Plucky Losers and Moral Winners Monthly' if they're lucky.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Sat 11 Jun 2016, 12:28 pm

Knowsit17 wrote:What for?

Because until you have, you don't know what you're talking about.

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Post by Knowsit17 Sat 11 Jun 2016, 12:43 pm

I don't know but I have a good idea. I've seen Wales come painfully close against the best sides in the world many a time. I've seen many minutes of hard work swept away by a quick sequence of brain farts before now. It's just not something I feel motivated to watch anymore. Wales can look like the best side in history for 70 mins for all I care, I'm no longer interested unless they can bring home something more than this 'we played well (for 60 mins) and lost' carp. We've had years and years of those kinds of results.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Sat 11 Jun 2016, 12:48 pm

Knowsit17 wrote:How about watching players go back on their word, talking about cutting loose and taking risks

They didn't go back on their word, they stuck to it. You'd know that if you'd watched the match.


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Post by Heaf Sat 11 Jun 2016, 12:56 pm

Biltong wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:Unlucky Wales.

Cracking game for 60mins but the AB's just keep it going at that high tempo for the full 80. Certainly nothing to be ashamed of and the scoreline flatters the home side.

Should have been 46-21, so no the scoreline isn't flattering the home side.

Wales played well for 60 minutes.
No it shouldn't as the ABs second try had a pass that was at least 4m forwards clearly shown in relation to the 10m line.  Maybe if that had been picked up the pressure would have built a bit more on the ABs - I actually agree with Sgt that Wales were a bit unlucky and the flurry of scores at the end paint a picture that's a bit harsh on Wales who I thought overall made a good match of it.  

Unfortunately for Wales I think that may have been their best chance as the ABs will probably get better from here.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Sat 11 Jun 2016, 12:57 pm

Heaf wrote:
Biltong wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:Unlucky Wales.

Cracking game for 60mins but the AB's just keep it going at that high tempo for the full 80. Certainly nothing to be ashamed of and the scoreline flatters the home side.

Should have been 46-21, so no the scoreline isn't flattering the home side.

Wales played well for 60 minutes.
No it shouldn't as the ABs second try had a pass that was at least 4m forwards clearly shown in relation to the 10m line.

They also had a try ruled out for a forward pass when it shouldn't have been, so they cancel each other out.

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Post by Heaf Sat 11 Jun 2016, 12:58 pm

Yes so that means the end scoreline was correct - i.e. it shouldn't have been 46 to the ABs ...

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Post by Knowsit17 Sat 11 Jun 2016, 1:03 pm

What were they doing in that second half? Missing tackles, kicking the leather off the ball and generally losing composure. I don't even need to have watched the game to know that, the scoreline and the comments tell me enough.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:However well we played in the first half, three points in the second is pretty lousy.

The better team won, no question.

I'm happy that we actually did play some rugby after saying we would. Now to keep playing rugby, and not reverting to type when we're ahead!

You more or less say it yourself. Wales start with a bang and end with a whimper. It's painfully characteristic of them against top opposition. I simply had no inclination to watch Wales play well until they're ahead, then promptly drop off the pace. I'd rather watch any kind of actual win, regardless how ugly, than this 'we lost but fought hard' display. Wales never have a winning mentality in this type of fixture.

England have just put the Welsh performance to shame (again) by showing exactly how you win in the SH.

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Post by Biltong Sat 11 Jun 2016, 1:04 pm

Heaf wrote:Yes so that means the end scoreline was correct - i.e. it shouldn't have been 46 to the ABs ...

The point is the scoreline didn't flatter NZ
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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Sat 11 Jun 2016, 1:08 pm

Knowsit17 wrote:How about watching players go back on their word, talking about cutting loose and taking risks

To repeat myself: they didn't go back on their word, they stuck to it.

If you're comfortable passing judgement on players without having watched them, fair enough.

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Post by Knowsit17 Sat 11 Jun 2016, 1:09 pm

To repeat myself: what were they doing second half?

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Sat 11 Jun 2016, 1:15 pm

If you told me you were going to do something, and did it, and I said you'd gone back on your word, even though I didn't know whether you'd done it or not, would that be right?

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Post by ebop Sat 11 Jun 2016, 1:20 pm

Knowsit17 wrote:England have just put the Welsh performance to shame (again) by showing exactly how you win in the SH.

Good luck playing for 3 pt increments against the ABs. England didn't really offer much except for possession plays and penalties. It won them the game, good on them. It's their thing and it works for them. But Wales played in the right spirit and made a very good fist of it today I thought.
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Post by Biltong Sat 11 Jun 2016, 1:24 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:If you told me you were going to do something, and did it, and I said you'd gone back on your word, even though I didn't know whether you'd done it or not, would that be right?

Doesn't matter whether you know though, it only matters what you think, because if you know you know, if you think you know, but you don't know, then it only matters what you think you know, even though you don't know. Because what you think you know is all that matters and what anyone else knows or think they know doesn't make a difference. Whistle
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Post by ebop Sat 11 Jun 2016, 1:29 pm

Right on brother

In my opinion I've got an ar*sehole

Think I got that right
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Post by Biltong Sat 11 Jun 2016, 1:35 pm

Me too Smile
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Post by Heaf Sat 11 Jun 2016, 1:47 pm

ebop wrote:
Knowsit17 wrote:England have just put the Welsh performance to shame (again) by showing exactly how you win in the SH.

Good luck playing for 3 pt increments against the ABs. England didn't really offer much except for possession plays and penalties. It won them the game, good on them. It's their thing and it works for them. But Wales played in the right spirit and made a very good fist of it today I thought.
So 3 tries aren't much then?  Ever consider if the opposing team didn't commit so many penalty offences you may score more tries too?

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Post by Not grey and not a ghost Sat 11 Jun 2016, 1:49 pm

Looks like North may be out of the tour with a hamstring injury. Sad if true. Thought he played well today.

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Post by Knowsit17 Sat 11 Jun 2016, 1:51 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:If you told me you were going to do something, and did it, and I said you'd gone back on your word, even though I didn't know whether you'd done it or not, would that be right?

Not if you had no evidence either way to show whether I had or hadn't done it. In Wales' case 3 pts during the entire second half tells me they weren't doing something second half which they were doing in the first half.

If you get a half that's 18-15 followed by one that's 3-24 that normally tells you something was notably different in one of those halfs. I'm willing to grant the AB's probably improved as the game went on but that can't be the whole story. Realistically when any side scores as little as three points in a half that's a strong indication of inadequate performance.

I've seen enough of these types of games to have a good idea how Wales played (well in one half, poorly in the other). Sadly they're just that predictable

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Post by ebop Sat 11 Jun 2016, 2:15 pm

Heaf wrote:
ebop wrote:
Knowsit17 wrote:England have just put the Welsh performance to shame (again) by showing exactly how you win in the SH.

Good luck playing for 3 pt increments against the ABs. England didn't really offer much except for possession plays and penalties. It won them the game, good on them. It's their thing and it works for them. But Wales played in the right spirit and made a very good fist of it today I thought.
So 3 tries aren't much then?  Ever consider if the opposing team didn't commit so many penalty offences you may score more tries too?
You watched the game? England played smart but didn't do much in the way of enterprise, Australia lost composure, England won, well done
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Post by Heaf Sat 11 Jun 2016, 2:25 pm

Yes and I'm struggling with the idea that "England didn't offer much" but somehow managed to score 39 points away to the No.3 ranked team and your implication that England didn't play in the right spirit - they played the right way to beat Oz which is the idea of the game, and as mentioned maybe if Oz didn't commit so many penalty offences when England were on the attack they may have scored even more tries.

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New Zealand v Wales, 11 June - Page 4 Empty Re: New Zealand v Wales, 11 June

Post by ebop Sat 11 Jun 2016, 2:40 pm

Stop being so sensitive heaf

I'm saying Wales gave it a nudge

England played to their strengths, kicking goals, and won on the back of that. Are you disputing this, are you saying England were dazzling? They weren't. Hopefully you're not implying England's dazzle was stunted by meek penalty offences like scrum offences and other 50/50 calls. England were typically stodgy but they won. Well done. There's no problem, a win is a win mate. Soak up the glory.
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New Zealand v Wales, 11 June - Page 4 Empty Re: New Zealand v Wales, 11 June

Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 11 Jun 2016, 2:53 pm

England must be getting good again.

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New Zealand v Wales, 11 June - Page 4 Empty Re: New Zealand v Wales, 11 June

Post by ebop Sat 11 Jun 2016, 2:56 pm

Haha

Ok, no more pollution of this Wales v ABs thread
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New Zealand v Wales, 11 June - Page 4 Empty Re: New Zealand v Wales, 11 June

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