Australia v England, 11 June

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AUSTRALIA v ENGLAND
11 June 2016
20:00 AEST (UTC+10)
Suncorp Stadium, Brisbane

Live on [tbc]

Referee: Romain Poite (France)
Touch judges: [tbc]
Television match official: [tbc]

A. Head to Head

44 Played 44
25 Won 18
1 Drawn 1
18 Lost 25
940 Points 674

B. Recent Form

3 October 2015 - Twickenham, London: 13 – 33 to Australia

29 November 2014 - Twickenham, London: 26 – 17 to England

2 November 2013 - Twickenham, London: 20 – 13 to England

17 November 2012 - Twickenham, London: 14 – 20 to Australia

13 November 2010 - Twickenham, London: 35 – 18 to England

19 June 2010 - Telstra Stadium, Sydney: 20 – 21 to England

12 June 2010 - Subiaco Oval, Perth: 27 – 17 to Australia

C. Teams

AUSTRALIA 

Israel Folau; Dane Haylett-Petty, Tevita Kuridrani, Samu Kerevi, Rob Horne; Bernard Foley, Nick Phipps; Scott Sio, Stephen Moore (captain), Greg Holmes, Rory Arnold, Rob Simmons, Scott Fardy, Michael Hooper, David Pocock.

Replacements: Tatafu Polota-Nau, James Slipper, Sekope Kepu, James Horwill, Dean Mumm, Sean McMahon, Nick Frisby, Christian Lealiifano

ENGLAND

15. Mike Brown; 14. Anthony Watson, 13. Jonathan Joseph, 12. Luther Burrell, 11. Marland Yarde; 10. Owen Farrell, 9. Ben Youngs; 1. Mako Vunipola, 2. Dylan Hartley, 3. Dan Cole, 4. Maro Itoje, 5. George Kruis, 6. Chris Robshaw, 7. James Haskell, 8. Billy Vunipola.

Replacements: 16. Luke Cowan-Dickie, 17. Matt Mullan, 18. Paul Hill, 19. Joe Launchbury, 20. Courtney Lawes, 21. Danny Care, 22. George Ford, 23. Jack Nowell.

no 7 & 1/2 nailed on to be a great player? Is that why you didn't think Itoje should be selected instead of an unfit Launchbury?

Nailed on.... let's not select him though.

You and Sgt Pooly were doubters who have been converted. Don't backtrack and pretend you were always supporters of Itoje.

Would be like me saying I was always a big fan of Nowell, I wasn't in 2014 but I changed my tune in 2015 onwards.

You were hyping up 36. I am not hyping up Farrell, I see him as a stop gap 12, nothing more.

Players can improve. Be man enough to admit you were a doubter whose been converted.

I've underestimated players like Haskell and Ford - I've held my hands up and said - fair play I was wrong. They did better than I thought they would.

Can you do the same?

beshocked wrote:Everyone said Itoje was going to be a star? Don't remember you being like that when you wanted to play an unfit Launchbury in the 6 nations. Not everyone doubted Itoje but you and Sgt Pooly were two of the posters who were.

You must be prophetic beshocked, hyping up the most hyped young English player in years, there were calls for him to play in the world cup but most felt it was a bit too soon, considering he's still only 21 that's fair enough. Almost everybody though had him down as a future international star albeit at 6 rather than lock, again not surprising considering our strength in that position.

Easy to look back now he's had a stellar season but back in September/October of last year it had yet to happen, you're twisting reality based on his current standing to apply to back then.

Really? I'd love you to find that quote!

What I actually said that if fit Launchbury starts for me. But continue to lie openly beshocked!

And another lie on Twelvetrees; but please find the quote.

And all this because everyone else gets fast tracked but the England coaches (with all their Saracens links) hold the Sarries players back!

Its ok guys, there's only 3 pages left for beshocked to get his guff in before we have to move on to this week's game thread

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

beshocked wrote:Everyone said Itoje was going to be a star? Don't remember you being like that when you wanted to play an unfit Launchbury in the 6 nations. Not everyone doubted Itoje but you and Sgt Pooly were two of the posters who were.

You must be prophetic beshocked, hyping up the most hyped young English player in years, there were calls for him to play in the world cup but most felt it was a bit too soon, considering he's still only 21 that's fair enough. Almost everybody though had him down as a future international star albeit at 6 rather than lock, again not surprising considering our strength in that position.

Easy to look back now he's had a stellar season but back in September/October of last year it had yet to happen, you're twisting reality based on his current standing to apply to back then.

Hammersmith harrier

I pointed out Itoje long before others jumped on the bandwagon. It's not hindsight. It's foresight. I've been backing Itoje to be a big hit for years. I don't know how you could have missed my long standing support.

Only 21. North was 18 on his debut for Wales and Itoje had play in the England Saxons and had won an AP title before the RWC.

Easy for others to pretend they knew Itoje was going to be big. Jumping on the bandwagon - not admirable.

Bambam are you going to ever say anything constructive whatsoever or are you just going to continue act like a Russian thug, intimidate but ultimately be a coward at heart.

Not lying no 7 & 1/2. I don't have the time to trawl through your posts. You know you wanted Launchbury to start. As for 36 you've always been a fan.

Saying I am lying? That's funny coming from someone who claims things are true with no evidence whatsoever.....

beshocked wrote:Easy for others to pretend they knew Itoje was going to be big.

I said it before his debut.

You're right about the rest though. Most people were saying he wasn't ready.

I see no point in being constructive when those who are being constructive may as well slam their heads into the nearest wall

I'm saving myself the pain

How that translates to being one of Putin's boys I don't know

Scottrf I am not saying everyone was doubting Itoje. There's always going to be doubters and of course I am guilty of doing so to other players. Would have more respect if certain posters admitted it.

I am not going to claim I know everything, I quite clearly don't. Haskell for example has been excellent for Jones, something I never expected. I questioned Hartley's selection, he's been solid and reliable.  I was wrong to underestimate certain players.

Sometimes it's good to admit you're wrong.

Bambam it's because you have your own false perception of me - Putin's boys are brainwashed and their perceptions are false too. I am using a hard hitting example because defending myself against you is futile because you refuse to understand. There is no reasoning with you. I don't dislike you but you dislike me - that's the same with Putin's boys and England fans. They are looking for a fight - just like you.

Honestly wouldn't waste my time, it's pointless.

beshocked you are lying if you said I wanted an unfit Launchbury to start over Itoje. What I actually said was if fit I'd start launchbury. I've said that I'd have Twelvetrees as a stop gap. You won't be able to find anything else as it didn't happen.

Yup, I think Saracens were cheating the cap, the fact they buried the investigation was a disgrace to the Prem.

Hey 7.5 whats the joke about Robinson??

The bookies aren't even taking bets on him being the Lions next captain its that nailed on.

beshocked wrote:
Hammersmith harrier

I pointed out Itoje long before others jumped on the bandwagon. It's not hindsight. It's foresight. I've been backing Itoje to be a big hit for years. I don't know how you could have missed my long standing support.

Only 21.  North was 18 on his debut for Wales and Itoje had play in the England Saxons and had won an AP title before the RWC.

Easy for others to pretend they knew Itoje was going to be big. Jumping on the bandwagon - not admirable.

You can try and make out like you were the only one who knew he was a good player but that would be false and you damn well know it.

Playing in the backline at 18 is a little bit different to packing down at 20 don't you think?

no 7 & 1/2 you need evidence too. Don't you understand?

Fit or unfit you still wanted Launchbury to start.

Sgt Pooly show some humility for once and admit you're wrong.

Hammersmith Harrier I am sure people thought Itoje was good, but there's a difference between thinking a player is good and thinking he's good enough to play at certain times. I thought he was good enough to have a run out in the RWC warm ups. I thought he was good enough to feature vs Scotland in the 6 nations.

There were those who didn't think Itoje was good enough.

When it comes to Itoje - everyone has agreed he was a huge prospect with the only disagreement being when he was ready to play for England. He has been hyped in the press for at least 3 years, Stuart Lancaster mentioned him back in 2012. Anyone trying to claim some special kudos for spotting his talent is deluding themself.

Most of us would have been happy to see a little more of him last summer, but felt he was not ready and could see why after a handful of games for Sarries and training with England in the US Lanacaster chose to cut him. It was a decision that Mark McCall agreed with, and he has stated that Itoje was much better served by having a full pre-season with Sarries. It was McCall's opinion that Itoje was not ready for Int rugby in August, but was in February.

Eddie Jones chose not to heed calls to start him immediately in the 6Ns and introduced him gradually through the tournament. How things would have panned out had Launchbury been fully fit we will never know - but the ire aimed at people simply because they (along with Jones) initially preferred the Wasps man is rather tedious.

As LT says.

I can't recall anybody suggesting Itoje was not a good player with huge potential, I've always said he'd be a star, I just thought he wasn't ready for the WC and the warm ups are no time to be giving players debuts.

I can't believe you're going through this again.

LondonTiger wrote:When it comes to Itoje - everyone has agreed he was a huge prospect with the only disagreement being when he was ready to play for England. He has been hyped in the press for at least 3 years, Stuart Lancaster mentioned him back in 2012. Anyone trying to claim some special kudos for spotting his talent is deluding themself.

Most of us would have been happy to see a little more of him last summer, but felt he was not ready and could see why after a handful of games for Sarries and training with England in the US Lanacaster chose to cut him. It was a decision that Mark McCall agreed with, and he has stated that Itoje was much better served by having a full pre-season with Sarries. It was McCall's opinion that Itoje was not ready for Int rugby in August, but was in February.

Eddie Jones chose not to heed calls to start him immediately in the 6Ns and introduced him gradually through the tournament. How things would have panned out had Launchbury been fully fit we will never know - but the ire aimed at people simply because they (along with Jones) initially preferred the Wasps man is rather tedious.

Launchbury is also a brilliant lock - one of the best in the world when fully fit and firing (too rare an event recently). It's no crime thinking he might be better than an unproven 20 yr old. It's just really exciting that with Kruis upping his game so much and you know who becoming proven Launchbury has been pushed down the order.

Is there a mod who can amend beshocked's screen name to include

Hedge your bets and jump on the bandwagon when it suits you...... That's what I feel many have done.

Oh I knew he was going to be great but wouldn't pick him.....

Never mind. If people want to claim it then I guess I can't stop them.

Is there a mod that can create a balaclava or maybe a flare emoticon to use for Bambam's screen name?

Instead of verbally attacking me why don't you use your passion to beat up some Russian thugs. Would do us all a favour.

Beshocked.......you're embarrassing yourself.

 



I would, but they're all bigger than me and I'm scared

Sgt Pooly you think so little of me anyway, I am not bothered.

Anyway onto something more positive - I am pleased with how England have been doing.

Series is definitely there for the taking.

Bambam I am sorry I obviously don't think you're a Russian thug or in cahoots with Putin. I would like someone to hurt those Russian thugs badly though. Sadly the French police won't.

beshocked wrote:no 7 & 1/2 you need evidence too. Don't you understand?

Fit or unfit you still wanted Launchbury to start.

Sgt Pooly show some humility for once and admit you're wrong.

Hammersmith Harrier I am sure people thought Itoje was good, but there's a difference between thinking a player is good and thinking he's good enough to play at certain times. I thought he was good enough to have a run out in the RWC warm ups. I thought he was good enough to feature vs Scotland in the 6 nations.

There were those who didn't think Itoje was good enough.

I was with you on the proof of saracens cheating, then the outcome was delayed to help save the WC. Should be due soon shouldn't it?

Not fit or unfit at all. Like I said I would have started Launchbury if fit.

beshocked wrote:Sgt Pooly you think so little of me anyway, I am not bothered.

Anyway onto something more positive - I am pleased with how England have been doing.

Series is definitely there for the taking.

Bambam I am sorry I obviously don't think you're a Russian thug or in cahoots with Putin. I would like someone to hurt those Russian thugs badly though. Sadly the French police won't.

I agree it is. But this is the big test...as we've shown our cards so to speak in the power game. And Oz will come back ferociously. I just hope they don't play like the first 20 for the full game!

No 7&1/2 wrote:beshocked, Slade hasn't yet started his England career for petes sake. Yes, for me Slade has the most complete set of skills in England (for a back). He's about to make his first steps and I think he'll go onto be a great player for us. I've never said he's a fully proven international. You however have written him off!

Mate, you must be a forward:


This is what backs look like:

Ha, just meant I don't like his propping skills!

"Not fit or unfit at all. Like I said I would have started Launchbury if fit."

Like your opinion counts for something.

As much as a lot. Not much in how Jones selects his team. But then I doubt any of us truly has his ear!

May as well shut this place down now its been revealed that Eddie isn't hanging on our every word

It was a real kick in the gut when he told me that in April BamBam. Like his media work he was lying to me.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Ha, just meant I don't like his propping skills!

as long as nothing goes wrong if you give him a wafer thin mint..................

Just a thought about one of the 'almost tries' the Australians didn't score when a pass to Folau would have made it happen. This happened directly before a move when they did score. If they had of scored 1st time then the 2nd would not have happened. All that would have happened is that 1) Foley would have had a harder kick for the conversion 2) Australia would have had an extra half minute or so of running around trying to score.

Corbs view on the scrum:

http://www.skysports.com/rugby-union/news/12504/10314726/watch-alex-corbisiero-analyses-australia-and-england-scrum-battle

common sense really, if the lose head ends up with his shoulder under the tighthead and theTH is standing relatively square, there is only one at fault