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South Africa v Ireland, 11 June

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Post by George Carlin Fri 03 Jun 2016, 12:49 pm

First topic message reminder :

South Africa v Ireland, 11 June - Page 10 Sa10        South Africa v Ireland, 11 June - Page 10 Irelan10
SOUTH AFRICA v IRELAND
11 June 2016
17:00 SAST (UTC+02)
DHL Newlands, Cape Town

Live on Sky Sports

Referee: Mathieu Raynal (France)
Touch judges: [tbc]
Television match official: [tbc]

A. Head to Head

22 Played 22
16 Won 5
1 Drawn 1
5 Lost 16
422 Points 277

B. Recent Form

8 November 2014 - Aviva Stadium, Dublin: 29 – 15 to Ireland

10 November 2012 - Aviva Stadium, Dublin: 12 – 16 to South Africa

6 November 2010 - Aviva Stadium, Dublin: 21 – 23 to South Africa

28 November 2009 - Croke Park, Dublin: 15 – 10 to Ireland

11 November 2006 - Lansdowne Road, Dublin: 32 – 15 to Ireland

13 November 2004 - Lansdowne Road, Dublin: 17 – 12 to Ireland

19 June 2004 - Newlands, Cape Town: 26 – 17 to South Africa

C. Teams

SOUTH AFRICA 
South Africa v Ireland, 11 June - Page 10 Al_cot10
15 Willie le Roux, 14 JP Pietersen, 13 Lionel Mapoe, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Lwazi Mvovo, 10 Pat Lambie, 9 Faf de Klerk, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Siya Kolisi, 6 Francois Louw, 5 Lood de Jager, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2 Adriaan Strauss (captain), 1 Tendai Mtawarira

Substitutes: 16 Bongi Mbonambi 17 Trevor Nyakane 18 Julian Redelinghuys 19 Pieter-Steph du Toit 20 Warren Whiteley 21 Rudy Paige 22 Elton Jantjies 23 Jesse Kriel

IRELAND
South Africa v Ireland, 11 June - Page 10 Joe-sc10
J Payne; A Trimble, R Henshaw, L Marshall, K Earls; P Jackson, C Murray; J McGrath, R Best, M Ross; I Henderson, D Toner; CJ Stander, J Murphy, J Heaslip

Replacements: S Cronin, F Bealham, T Furlong, U Dillane, R Ruddock, K Marmion, I Madigan, C Gilroy.


Last edited by George Carlin on Sun 12 Jun 2016, 1:46 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Post by trebellbobaggins Sat 11 Jun 2016, 4:44 pm

It's impossible to have much respect for SA's performance when they've been turgid but needed cards to be in charge.  Poor poor stuff.

They will need to step up may levels before the rugby championship.  I'm sure they will though.


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Post by toml Sat 11 Jun 2016, 4:44 pm

Clearly Marshall would have got there without the obstruction

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Sat 11 Jun 2016, 4:44 pm

In what world is that not blocking?

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Post by wolfball Sat 11 Jun 2016, 4:45 pm

prop_lyd wrote:That is a joke!! Just a big hit head on.

There are 50 of those a week that go unpunished. Sickening.

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Post by offload Sat 11 Jun 2016, 4:46 pm

Both cards were correct. The refs mistake was not calling the obstruction.
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Post by eirebilly Sat 11 Jun 2016, 4:46 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Can't complain about the yellow card but there was an obstruction there that allowed the try to be scored. Madness.

Agree, it was stupid from Henshaw and was a defo yellow card but the try should not have been awarded. Even some of the calls made against the Boks don't make sense to me. He has ruined what should have been a great game.
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Post by kingraf Sat 11 Jun 2016, 4:47 pm

I'm very sorry to see Lambie go down like that but

a) Just desserts for possibly the biggest douchebag to ever turncoat in SA (no small feat for a country which produced KP)
b) There was no sensible reason for Lambie to be picked ahead of Jantjies.
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Post by Biltong Sat 11 Jun 2016, 4:47 pm

trebellbobaggins wrote:It's impossible to have much respect for SA's performance when they've been turgid but needed cards to be in charge.  Poor poor stuff.

They will need to step up may levels before the rugby championship.  I'm sure they will though.

I doubt they will.

I expect the Springboks come come last in the Rugby Champioship, I have virtually no expections
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Post by Bone Collector Sat 11 Jun 2016, 4:47 pm

These sky commentators are just a tad grating. Biased much?

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Post by Pete330v2 Sat 11 Jun 2016, 4:47 pm

The ref's a feicin joke. Worst display I think I have ever seen and it's still only half an hour in

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Post by Notch Sat 11 Jun 2016, 4:50 pm

Ref has been an absolute disaster but fair play to Ireland for hanging in there.
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Post by Biltong Sat 11 Jun 2016, 4:52 pm

This is simply embarrassing, I suspect this will be my final rugby match for the foreseeable future
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Post by trebellbobaggins Sat 11 Jun 2016, 4:53 pm

Biltong wrote:
trebellbobaggins wrote:It's impossible to have much respect for SA's performance when they've been turgid but needed cards to be in charge.  Poor poor stuff.

They will need to step up may levels before the rugby championship.  I'm sure they will though.

I doubt they will.

I expect the Springboks come come last in the Rugby Champioship, I have virtually no expections


They look a level down from the other two today but one weekend tells us very little really.

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Sat 11 Jun 2016, 4:53 pm

Great defense.

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Post by Notch Sat 11 Jun 2016, 4:54 pm

Great defence for Ireland to hang in there until half-time. 

Think that was an very mature decision from Jackson to take the drop goal. Ireland are playing with one hand behind their back due to an extremely harsh referees decision, which I must admit the reasoning for made no sense to me, but we are standing up and showing pride. Thats all we asked for.
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Post by LeinsterFan4life Sat 11 Jun 2016, 4:55 pm

Biltong wrote:This is simply embarrassing, I suspect this will be my final rugby match for the foreseeable future
Don't worry the quoatas will save yas.

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Post by offload Sat 11 Jun 2016, 4:56 pm

Such a shame that Ireland's discipline has let them down because this SA team are very poor. If Ireland can cut out the mistakes they have a good chance even with 14.
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Post by eirebilly Sat 11 Jun 2016, 4:56 pm

Some of the decisions against SA in the lead up to their yellow card were a little odd so I feel they were hard done by to receive a calmative yellow card.

CJ Stander's chargedown was a legitimate attempt although reckless, yellow card at best. Really hope Lambie is ok, it did not look good.

Henshaw's yellow card was absolutely deserved but the try should not have been awarded for the blocking of Marshall.

In short, the ref has been a nightmare with Ireland faring worse from his incompetence with the Stander red card.
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Post by toml Sat 11 Jun 2016, 4:59 pm

eirebilly wrote:Some of the decisions against SA in the lead up to their yellow card were a little odd so I feel they were hard done by to receive a calmative yellow card.

CJ Stander's chargedown was a legitimate attempt although reckless, yellow card at best. Really hope Lambie is ok, it did not look good.

Henshaw's yellow card was absolutely deserved but the try should not have been awarded for the blocking of Marshall.

In short, the ref has been a nightmare with Ireland faring worse from his incompetence with the Stander red card.

I can't think anyone could disagree with this. If Lambies chip did not have as steep a trajectory then there would have been no reason it couldn't have been charged down. How are you supposed to know the trajectory of a kick when you have already jumped for it?

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Post by kingraf Sat 11 Jun 2016, 5:01 pm

toml wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Some of the decisions against SA in the lead up to their yellow card were a little odd so I feel they were hard done by to receive a calmative yellow card.

CJ Stander's chargedown was a legitimate attempt although reckless, yellow card at best. Really hope Lambie is ok, it did not look good.

Henshaw's yellow card was absolutely deserved but the try should not have been awarded for the blocking of Marshall.

In short, the ref has been a nightmare with Ireland faring worse from his incompetence with the Stander red card.

I can't think anyone could disagree with this. If Lambies chip did not have as steep a trajectory then there would have been no reason it couldn't have been charged down. How are you supposed to know the trajectory of a kick when you have already jumped for it?

Should we start allowing late charges on the off chance that the player holding the ball might have just been setting up a dummy?
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Post by marty2086 Sat 11 Jun 2016, 5:02 pm

kingraf wrote:
toml wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Some of the decisions against SA in the lead up to their yellow card were a little odd so I feel they were hard done by to receive a calmative yellow card.

CJ Stander's chargedown was a legitimate attempt although reckless, yellow card at best. Really hope Lambie is ok, it did not look good.

Henshaw's yellow card was absolutely deserved but the try should not have been awarded for the blocking of Marshall.

In short, the ref has been a nightmare with Ireland faring worse from his incompetence with the Stander red card.

I can't think anyone could disagree with this. If Lambies chip did not have as steep a trajectory then there would have been no reason it couldn't have been charged down. How are you supposed to know the trajectory of a kick when you have already jumped for it?

Should we start allowing late charges on the off chance that the player holding the ball might have just been setting up a dummy?

Where was the late charge? He was leaving the ground before he kicked the ball as the repeated slow mos showed Rolling Eyes

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Post by Rory_Gallagher Sat 11 Jun 2016, 5:03 pm

kingraf wrote:
toml wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Some of the decisions against SA in the lead up to their yellow card were a little odd so I feel they were hard done by to receive a calmative yellow card.

CJ Stander's chargedown was a legitimate attempt although reckless, yellow card at best. Really hope Lambie is ok, it did not look good.

Henshaw's yellow card was absolutely deserved but the try should not have been awarded for the blocking of Marshall.

In short, the ref has been a nightmare with Ireland faring worse from his incompetence with the Stander red card.

I can't think anyone could disagree with this. If Lambies chip did not have as steep a trajectory then there would have been no reason it couldn't have been charged down. How are you supposed to know the trajectory of a kick when you have already jumped for it?

Should we start allowing late charges on the off chance that the player holding the ball might have just been setting up a dummy?

No, because late charges are illegal. Legitimate charge down attempts are not (or shouldn't be).

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Sat 11 Jun 2016, 5:04 pm

South Africa getting gifts from the referee again I see, pretty standard to be honest.

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Post by Biltong Sat 11 Jun 2016, 5:05 pm

marty2086 wrote:
kingraf wrote:
toml wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Some of the decisions against SA in the lead up to their yellow card were a little odd so I feel they were hard done by to receive a calmative yellow card.

CJ Stander's chargedown was a legitimate attempt although reckless, yellow card at best. Really hope Lambie is ok, it did not look good.

Henshaw's yellow card was absolutely deserved but the try should not have been awarded for the blocking of Marshall.

In short, the ref has been a nightmare with Ireland faring worse from his incompetence with the Stander red card.

I can't think anyone could disagree with this. If Lambies chip did not have as steep a trajectory then there would have been no reason it couldn't have been charged down. How are you supposed to know the trajectory of a kick when you have already jumped for it?

Should we start allowing late charges on the off chance that the player holding the ball might have just been setting up a dummy?

Where was the late charge? He was leaving the ground before he kicked the ball as the repeated slow mos showed Rolling Eyes

The only thing I can think is the referee must be reasoning that Stander was charging at Lambie rather than the line of where the ball would be kicked from.

I have seen this scenario before, where the referee deemed the player charging at the kicker and not the ball.

Harsh I agree. But that is the danger when you open your action up to interpretation.
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Post by eirebilly Sat 11 Jun 2016, 5:06 pm

kingraf wrote:

Should we start allowing late charges on the off chance that the player holding the ball might have just been setting up a dummy?

I cant see anything other than a legitimate attempt to charge the ball down. It was reckless and I would not have complained if he received a yellow card but in my opinion it was a bad call, one of many against both sides.

Really happy with Paddy Jackson, showing the form and composure of an International 10.
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Post by Golden Sat 11 Jun 2016, 5:06 pm

Is stander gone for the tour now? Or does it go before the citing commissioner

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Post by marty2086 Sat 11 Jun 2016, 5:07 pm

Biltong wrote:Harsh I agree. But that is the danger when you open your action up to interpretation.

That could be said of any decision in rugby

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Post by Biltong Sat 11 Jun 2016, 5:09 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Biltong wrote:Harsh I agree. But that is the danger when you open your action up to interpretation.

That could be said of any decision in rugby

Some plays are more prone to have decisions go against you.
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Post by marty2086 Sat 11 Jun 2016, 5:10 pm

Didn't bother looking at the high tackle on Murray by Etzebeth either what a surprise

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Post by westisbest Sat 11 Jun 2016, 5:10 pm

Great stuff cmon Ireland

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Post by offload Sat 11 Jun 2016, 5:10 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
kingraf wrote:
toml wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Some of the decisions against SA in the lead up to their yellow card were a little odd so I feel they were hard done by to receive a calmative yellow card.

CJ Stander's chargedown was a legitimate attempt although reckless, yellow card at best. Really hope Lambie is ok, it did not look good.

Henshaw's yellow card was absolutely deserved but the try should not have been awarded for the blocking of Marshall.

In short, the ref has been a nightmare with Ireland faring worse from his incompetence with the Stander red card.

I can't think anyone could disagree with this. If Lambies chip did not have as steep a trajectory then there would have been no reason it couldn't have been charged down. How are you supposed to know the trajectory of a kick when you have already jumped for it?

Should we start allowing late charges on the off chance that the player holding the ball might have just been setting up a dummy?

No, because late charges are illegal. Legitimate charge down attempts are not (or shouldn't be).

What does legitimate charge down attempt mean? And why is it relevant? It doesn't matter what you are "trying" to do, you can't leap in the air and smash a player in the face with your hip.
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Post by quinsforever Sat 11 Jun 2016, 5:12 pm

good stuff ireland.

paddy jackson doing really well.

stander can have no complaint about the red. you just cant jump at someones head. full stop.

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Post by offload Sat 11 Jun 2016, 5:13 pm

Ireland can still win this!! Good running lines and strong defense. One more score and SA might panic a bit.
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Post by Notch Sat 11 Jun 2016, 5:13 pm

Jackson looks composed and dangerous, whilst Marshall is an excellent second kicking option outside him.

You could be seeing a lot more of this partnership for Ireland!
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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 11 Jun 2016, 5:16 pm

I'm bemused by anyone suggesting jumping in the air to charge down a kick should be a red card offence.

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Post by kingraf Sat 11 Jun 2016, 5:17 pm

eirebilly wrote:
kingraf wrote:

Should we start allowing late charges on the off chance that the player holding the ball might have just been setting up a dummy?

I cant see anything other than a legitimate attempt to charge the ball down. It was reckless and I would not have complained if he received a yellow card but in my opinion it was a bad call, one of many against both sides.

Really happy with Paddy Jackson, showing the form and composure of an International 10.

It's a bad call (I suppose), I'm just not comfortable with this rationalisation that it was okay because he was going for the ball. It was low percentage and was almost always gonna end with Lambie in a lot of trouble.
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Post by kingraf Sat 11 Jun 2016, 5:18 pm

We're losing to a 13-man Ireland... Come back Heynecke. All is forgiven
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Post by trebellbobaggins Sat 11 Jun 2016, 5:21 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:The ref's a feicin joke. Worst display I think I have ever seen and it's still only half an hour in

Then you didn't see England Saxons have to beat SA and the ref last night. He was the worst I have ever seen. A Safa with a job to do it seemed.

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Post by offload Sat 11 Jun 2016, 5:21 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:I'm bemused by anyone suggesting jumping in the air to charge down a kick should be a red card offence.

Jumping in the air to charge down a kick is not a red card. Jumping and smashing a player in the head is, it doesn't matter what he was "trying " to do. It's not that difficult to understand.
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Post by Notch Sat 11 Jun 2016, 5:22 pm

Rory Best is an Irish warrior in the tradition of Cú Chulainn!

Strong, brave... but also very cunning Wink
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Post by Notch Sat 11 Jun 2016, 5:24 pm

We'll need to use the bench here. We're being heroic in the effort levels but surely we'll be vulnerable in the last 10, 15 minutes.
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Post by temporary21 Sat 11 Jun 2016, 5:24 pm

It was a somewhat late jump for the ball. It also wasn't timed very well as he careened straight into the guy, not where the ball was. Maybe a bit harsh but it was a very dangerous jump

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Post by trebellbobaggins Sat 11 Jun 2016, 5:24 pm

Notch wrote:Rory Best is an Irish warrior in the tradition of Cú Chulainn!

Strong, brave... but also very cunning Wink

Reminds me of my grandad. A bear of an ulsterman.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 11 Jun 2016, 5:27 pm

offload wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:I'm bemused by anyone suggesting jumping in the air to charge down a kick should be a red card offence.

Jumping in the air to charge down a kick is not a red card.  Jumping and smashing a player in the head is, it doesn't matter what he was "trying " to do.  It's not that difficult to understand.

So all the guy on the ground has to do is make contact and hey presto its red. Seen similar this year against Goode where it was correctly not even a pen.

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Post by Pete330v2 Sat 11 Jun 2016, 5:27 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:I'm bemused by anyone suggesting jumping in the air to charge down a kick should be a red card offence.

Absolutely. It had an unfortunate and accidental outcome but the red card decision is a joke. A yellow would have been harsh for god sake. You see that happen all the time without penalisation. The ref ruled on the outcome not the action which was never reckless.

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Post by quinsforever Sat 11 Jun 2016, 5:27 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:I'm bemused by anyone suggesting jumping in the air to charge down a kick should be a red card offence.
your post is up to its usual quality i see.

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South Africa v Ireland, 11 June - Page 10 Empty Re: South Africa v Ireland, 11 June

Post by Biltong Sat 11 Jun 2016, 5:27 pm

trebellbobaggins wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:The ref's a feicin joke. Worst display I think I have ever seen and it's still only half an hour in

Then you didn't see England Saxons have to beat SA and the ref last night.  He was the worst I have ever seen.  A Safa with a job to do it seemed.

Another reason to step away from rugby, the supporters are getting worse by the minute
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South Africa v Ireland, 11 June - Page 10 Empty Re: South Africa v Ireland, 11 June

Post by Notch Sat 11 Jun 2016, 5:28 pm

The way Trimble is scrummaging here I think he's after the number 6 shirt for the second test!!
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South Africa v Ireland, 11 June - Page 10 Empty Re: South Africa v Ireland, 11 June

Post by Hammersmith harrier Sat 11 Jun 2016, 5:28 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:I'm bemused by anyone suggesting jumping in the air to charge down a kick should be a red card offence.

Absolutely. It had an unfortunate and accidental outcome but the red card decision is a joke. A yellow would have been harsh for god sake. You see that happen all the time without penalisation. The ref ruled on the outcome not the action which was never reckless.

Too many people get over protective as soon as theirs an injury and assume it must be a red card regardless of intent or recklessness.

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South Africa v Ireland, 11 June - Page 10 Empty Re: South Africa v Ireland, 11 June

Post by quinsforever Sat 11 Jun 2016, 5:30 pm

if you knock someone unconscious who has just kicked the ball, there is a very real risk of a rec card, however it was done.

duty of care trumps trying to charge down a kick every time.

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