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Chiefs v Wales, 14 June

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Post by George Carlin Sun 12 Jun 2016, 19:56

First topic message reminder :

Chiefs v Wales, 14 June - Page 2 Waikat11               Chiefs v Wales, 14 June - Page 2 Wales_10
GALLAGHER CHIEFS v WALES
14 June 2016
18:35 NZST (UTC+12) / 07:35 BST 
FMG Stadium Waikato, Hamilton 

Live commentary on the BBC Wales Sport website, BBC Radio Cymru & BBC Sport app.

Referee: [tbc]
Touch judges: [tbc]
Television match official: [tbc]

Teams:

GALLAGHER CHIEFS

01. Mitchell Graham
02. Rhys Marshall
03. Hiroshi Yamashita
04. Dominic Bird
05. Michael Allardice
06. Mitchell Brown
07. Lachlan Boshier
08. Tom Sanders

09. Brad Weber
10. Stephen Donald Captain
11. Sam Vaka
12. Andrew Horrell
13. Anton Lienert-Brown
14. Toni Pulu
15. James Lowe

16. Hika Elliot
17. Siegfried Fisi’ihoi
18. Atu Moli
19. Taleni Seu
20. Tevita Koloamatangi
21. Kayne Hammington
22. Sam McNicol
23. Latu Vaeno

Not considered for selection:

- Nepo Laulala, Mitchell Karpik, Johan Bardoul, Pauliasi Manu, Sam Henwood, Glen Fisiiahi, Chase Tiatia, Michael Leitch, Maama Vaipulu, James Tucker, Augustine Pulu (All Blacks Sevens) and Shaun Stevenson (New Zealand U20s).

- Charlie Ngatai, Brodie Rettalick, Sam Cane, Tawera Kerr-Barlow, Seta Tamanivalu, Nathan Harris, Aaron Cruden and Damian McKenzie (All Blacks)

WALES

01 Rob Evans
02 Scott Baldwin
03 Tomas Francis
04 Jake Ball
05 Luke Charteris
06 Josh Turnbull
07 Ellis Jenkins
08 James King

15 Matthew Morgan
14 Eli Walker
13 Tyler Morgan
12 Scott Williams
11 Tom James
10 Rhys Priestland
09 Gareth Davies

16 Kristian Dacey
17 Aaron Jarvis
18 Rhodri Jones
19 Bradley Davies
20 Ross Moriarty
21 Aled Davies
22 Gareth Anscombe
23 Rhys Patchell.
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Post by George Carlin Tue 14 Jun 2016, 10:03

40-7

F*ck me hard - what happened?

The Chiefs were missing 20 first choice squad players??!!
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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 14 Jun 2016, 10:06

mikey_dragon wrote:
whocares wrote:Am sorry but there is no excuse to lose against a depleted SXV team who hasn't started their season. Even when we last toured NZ when got spanked by the ABs 3 times we managed to have to win the midweek game against the Blues. Sorry to state the obvious but the team Wales lost is miles away from the Waikato Chiefs you get to see in the finals.

You're right and to be fair Chiefs have been outstanding - I've never seen players so committed to their jersey. Well done on your win over the Blues btw, that must have been the key to  France finishing above 5th in the 6N.

Well that was unnecessary.

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Post by aucklandlaurie Tue 14 Jun 2016, 10:09

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
whocares wrote:Am sorry but there is no excuse to lose against a depleted SXV team who hasn't started their season. Even when we last toured NZ when got spanked by the ABs 3 times we managed to have to win the midweek game against the Blues. Sorry to state the obvious but the team Wales lost is miles away from the Waikato Chiefs you get to see in the finals.

You're right and to be fair Chiefs have been outstanding - I've never seen players so committed to their jersey. Well done on your win over the Blues btw, that must have been the key to  France finishing above 5th in the 6N.

Well that was unnecessary.


Extremely unnecessary, the last thing us Blues supporters need is to be reminded of another loss.

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Post by fa0019 Tue 14 Jun 2016, 10:10

Didn't see the match so can't tell but this welsh 2nd XV has to be better than that. When Ireland are beating the boks, England AUS and Wales pretty much in line with such teams you have to wonder what is going on? These kids should be busting the gut for test selection.

This chiefs side would be mid table in Super rugby (with their ABs missing) and yet the Jo'burg Lions beat their 1st XV in NZ this year, the Tah's tore them a new one a few weeks ago.

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Post by No9 Tue 14 Jun 2016, 10:11

Only one word describes that ...

EMBARRASSING...  steam  

I had wondered why Wales where wearing black armbands, but can now see they where mourning the death of Welsh Rugby.

I appreciate all the comments on Club v International sides, the fact the club side are (usually) well prepared (ie know each other) versus the International team, which are usually second string "dirt track" side. I appreciate the Club side are usually pumped up more, as for some its their only chance to play on the world stage and the desire to take an international scalp. All this makes sense to me, and if the Chiefs won by a score, I'd be saying well done. BUT to beat Wales by 30+ points being 21-0 at half time is an absolute joke, and goes down as one of the most embarrassing moments of Welsh rugby.

Well done Chiefs you played some great rugby and deserve that international scalp.

As for Wales, the only way the players can redeem themselves now is to win the next 2 Tests and hence the series..... BUT Beelzebub has just turned the heating up in hell, so no chance of that freezing soon.  devil Rolling Eyes

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Post by RDW Tue 14 Jun 2016, 10:12

So did Gatland made a mistake not bringing a larger touring party? Or were his hands tied to keep the costs down?

34 players should have been enough on paper but surely he would have known people would pick up injuries. A 34 man squad would mean 8 players backing up Saturday-Tuesday even if they didn't pick up injuries in the first test.

Or would it have made much difference given that any additional players would have been scrapping the barrel in terms of international quality?

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Post by fa0019 Tue 14 Jun 2016, 10:15

Why should the club side be more pumped up? The 2nd Welsh XV should be busting a gut for test selection? They are on tour in the end and many I understand weren't has-beens but rather up and coming/on the cusp type players.

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Post by mikey_dragon Tue 14 Jun 2016, 10:19

I wasn't trying to put a slight on Chiefs performance earlier, all teams bend the rules if they can get away with it. They figured out quite early on that they could with this referee. If anyone cares about the upcoming Lions tour then they must demand a review of today's official. I think it's also obvious that given the schedule the selector should take a larger touring party. I feel the starting team by then might have a very Anglo-Irish look about it, unless either team has their progress halted.

Chiefs were pretty relentless today, they played very much like the ABs. If Rennie is still the coach then surely he's the one to succeed Hansen.

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Post by No9 Tue 14 Jun 2016, 10:20

fa0019 wrote:Why should the club side be more pumped up? The 2nd Welsh XV should be busting a gut for test selection? They are on tour in the end and many I understand weren't has-beens but rather up and coming/on the cusp type players.

It wasn't an excuse... But any club, facing an international touring team will be up for the game and the chance of taking an international scalp. Where as for the international team, its usually the fringe players playing trying to break into the test side. Saying that, today, due to injuries there where a lot of first string players on show. I don't think many will disagree, that in these type of Club v International fixtures, the Club side has the advantage, ie. All to play for and nothing to lose.


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Post by mikey_dragon Tue 14 Jun 2016, 10:23

fa0019 wrote:Why should the club side be more pumped up? The 2nd Welsh XV should be busting a gut for test selection? They are on tour in the end and many I understand weren't has-beens but rather up and coming/on the cusp type players.

I agree with you, however the upcoming players bit is debatable. Some of them aren't cut out for this level and are playing out of position because we have no depth. It looks as if the province of Waikato has more squad depth than the whole of Wales. I put our issue down to a domestic problem where the regions don't prepare our players well enough for international rugby, nor do they produce enough high quality players, yet the union doesn't seem to want to help intervene.

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Post by Scottrf Tue 14 Jun 2016, 10:25

Makes it all the more frustrating that England blew a lead to a second string Wales in the World Cup.

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Post by fa0019 Tue 14 Jun 2016, 10:26

No9 wrote:
fa0019 wrote:Why should the club side be more pumped up? The 2nd Welsh XV should be busting a gut for test selection? They are on tour in the end and many I understand weren't has-beens but rather up and coming/on the cusp type players.

It wasn't an excuse... But any club, facing an international touring team will be up for the game and the chance of taking an international scalp. Where as for the international team, its usually the fringe players playing trying to break into the test side. Saying that, today, due to injuries there where a lot of first string players on show. I don't think many will disagree, that in these type of Club v International fixtures, the Club side has the advantage, ie. All to play for and nothing to lose.


Its great for youngsters at the club sure... but its also great for guys to force their way into the test 23. Perhaps guys who have been on fringe and felt they have been dropped/hard done by etc will be a little down.

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Post by No9 Tue 14 Jun 2016, 10:38

fa0019 wrote:
No9 wrote:
fa0019 wrote:Why should the club side be more pumped up? The 2nd Welsh XV should be busting a gut for test selection? They are on tour in the end and many I understand weren't has-beens but rather up and coming/on the cusp type players.

It wasn't an excuse... But any club, facing an international touring team will be up for the game and the chance of taking an international scalp. Where as for the international team, its usually the fringe players playing trying to break into the test side. Saying that, today, due to injuries there where a lot of first string players on show. I don't think many will disagree, that in these type of Club v International fixtures, the Club side has the advantage, ie. All to play for and nothing to lose.


Its great for youngsters at the club sure... but its also great for guys to force their way into the test 23. Perhaps guys who have been on fringe and felt they have been dropped/hard done by etc will be a little down.

I don't disagree, that the Welsh players should have bust a gut trying to break into the Test side. But, as said by many pundit who has toured for their nation. No player wants to be included in the mid-week games, and unfortunately, it showed, as there was NO commitment showed by some of those Welsh players today. This is something that I don't say lightly, as I always try to support and not knock the side. The Welsh team was an embarrassment. They showed no commitment, no pride and looked like they didn't want to be playing.

If this was reversed, and it was the All Blacks touring side playing one of the Welsh Regions, would they have allowed them to take a 21-0 lead at half time.

Guys this game today hurts more than any international loss Wales have experienced. And it hurts, because it didn't look like the players cared.

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Post by Allty Tue 14 Jun 2016, 10:44

Its the Pro 12 what done it. Very Happy

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Post by mikey_dragon Tue 14 Jun 2016, 10:57

mikey_dragon wrote:Whoever thinks this Wales team will do well is mad, it's a very scratch team. If they come off 2nd best in the collisions then they'll get thrashed.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/36509966

Hmm, me and Gatty on the same wavelength once again.

Gatland: "We were dominated at collision time and that was the difference between the teams. They were better in defence and attack.

And then there's this:

"It probably answered a few questions in terms of those who have been knocking on our door wanting to play Test rugby.

"It was disappointing."


Credit to some players for trying, but does this mean we can finally say goodbye to Turnbull and King? The latter had a walk-in for a try off the back of another dominant scrum (no penalty awarded to us again) and he literally did try and walk it in, only to get tackled on the line. He tackler held onto him which is illegal but ref pinged King believing he was the one holding on but come on, he really should have scored that.

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Post by Comfort Tue 14 Jun 2016, 11:10

Waikito having more squad depth than the whole of wales.... Rolling Eyes

Some of the things I've read over the last couple of weeks, honestly.

Poor preparation and poor team selection from a coaching team at odds with their natural gameplan (defensive/structured rugby) by trying to adapt to the modern game which requires dynamism and creativity. Priestland starting at flyhalf said it all, what would we learn? what would he learn? what would anyone learn? Poor.

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Post by mikey_dragon Tue 14 Jun 2016, 11:19

Second string Chiefs hammer second string Wales - it's clear and obvious that the chiefs region has more strength-in-depth than the whole of Wales. I got confused there for a moment as they were formerly known as the Waikato chiefs, they gather players from Bay of Plenty. Taranaki among others. I guess it's not as bad as claiming the ABs are inexperienced and then having to count their caps! Wink

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Post by bsando Tue 14 Jun 2016, 11:35

From Highlights reel it looked like a lot of soft trys. However, Wales are one of those teams where they rarely change up the starting XV apart from one or two positions. So on paper I did feel it would be a hard game for them today as Chiefs were always going to come out with a high tempo game.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 14 Jun 2016, 11:40

Gatland's been in post since 2007. We always struggle when he makes wholesale changes to the team. Why did he think this would be any different?

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Post by carpet baboon Tue 14 Jun 2016, 11:41

Ok is the scoreline acceptable? Or performance?

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Post by Guest Tue 14 Jun 2016, 11:57

Neither.

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Post by TightHEAD Tue 14 Jun 2016, 12:04

R.I.P Welsh rugby.
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Post by whocares Tue 14 Jun 2016, 12:14

Anyone saw the Chiefs Haka? Quite spectacular. Some of the Welsh lads seemed to wonder where they were. Having found some highlights I have to retract what I wrote earlier this was in no way some Chief squad looking for game time and practice. They were really up for it.

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Post by LondonTiger Tue 14 Jun 2016, 12:17

I was surprised there was a Haka. Was it because they were facing an International side, or do they do it before Super Rugby Games now?

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Post by Scottrf Tue 14 Jun 2016, 12:19

LondonTiger wrote:I was surprised there was a Haka. Was it because they were facing an International side, or do they do it before Super Rugby Games now?
It's their first Haka.

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Post by SecretFly Tue 14 Jun 2016, 12:30

whocares wrote:Anyone saw the Chiefs Haka? Quite spectacular. Some of the Welsh lads seemed to wonder where they were. Having found some highlights I have to retract what I wrote earlier this was in no way some Chief squad looking for game time and practice. They were really up for it.

This was a New Zealand side with a foreign team on their territory challenging them to a duel.

Even had the coaches wanted them to go easy and just 'practice', were the players ever going to go along with such a non-New Zealand ethos?

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Post by Knowsit17 Tue 14 Jun 2016, 12:45

I'm so glad I made a commitment not to watch Wales on this tour. There's losing to a second-rate England side and there's losing to a second-rate Chiefs. Sadly this Welsh team doesn't deserve to be watched.

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Post by RiscaGame Tue 14 Jun 2016, 12:54

Tell you what I'm gutted about is on one betting site, Chiefs by 7+ was 5/1. That would've been money for nothing.

The rest about today doesn't bother me. All it does is reaffirm my belief that Gatland is now wrecking Wales as opposed to stagnating them.

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Post by Comfort Tue 14 Jun 2016, 13:00

mikey_dragon wrote:Second string Chiefs hammer second string Wales - it's clear and obvious that the chiefs region has more strength-in-depth than the whole of Wales. I got confused there for a moment as they were formerly known as the Waikato chiefs, they gather players from Bay of Plenty. Taranaki among others. I guess it's not as bad as claiming the ABs are inexperienced and then having to count their caps! Wink

So were New Zealand more or less experienced now then before the world cup? Or the last time we faced them......

Its all relative, that was a pretty inexperienced NZ side comparable to what has come before. I cant believe im having to break that down Ale

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Post by mikey_dragon Tue 14 Jun 2016, 14:27

They weren't inexperienced like you claimed. Anyway they're still world class, that much we know.

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Post by George Carlin Tue 14 Jun 2016, 15:17

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Post by yappysnap Tue 14 Jun 2016, 16:03

I got the feeling that a lot of Welsh players had one eye on the weekend and not wanting to be injured/exhausted.

Chiefs, this was their final and they smashed it. Their Haka set the tone, best and most exhilarating I've seen in a long time

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Post by Shifty Tue 14 Jun 2016, 16:52

Warren's woeful Wales walloped by Waikato...

Not really sure the best headline, maybe simply "pathetic" might suit the players better. Shameful result, no one could believe that in work, most of the lads were shaking their heads in disgust. We will probably lose by 60 points on Saturday now, this will probably knock the stuffing out of the team.
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Post by fa0019 Tue 14 Jun 2016, 17:00

Its the one team in the world you know will stick the knife in if they have the opportunity. They never take their foot off the gas.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 14 Jun 2016, 17:46

yappysnap wrote:I got the feeling that a lot of Welsh players had one eye on the weekend and not wanting to be injured/exhausted.

Never mind the players, how much training / coaching time went in to this match? Next to f*ck all before Monday, I bet.

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Post by yappysnap Tue 14 Jun 2016, 18:18

That's very true. In some ways then the result was always going to happen, not really a shock.

And if the Welsh team have any pride then they'll come out on Saturday looking to put those last three performances to rights.

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Post by bedfordwelsh Tue 14 Jun 2016, 22:08

[quote="yappysnap"]I got the feeling that a lot of Welsh players had one eye on the weekend and not wanting to be injured/exhausted.

Chiefs, this was their final and they smashed it. Their Haka set the tone, best and most exhilarating I've seen in a long time [/quote]

That worked for them, cos whatever chance a few of them might have the royally screwed up with that performance.
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Post by LeinsterFan4life Tue 14 Jun 2016, 22:12

DAMN! Really not looking forward to seeing the next Lions tour. Shocked

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Post by bedfordwelsh Tue 14 Jun 2016, 22:13

LeinsterFan4life wrote:DAMN! Really not looking forward to seeing the next Lions tour. Shocked  

Depends who Schmidt picks I guess.
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Post by emack2 Wed 15 Jun 2016, 00:05

Having just watched the match and aftermatch conference no one mentioned
that Wales could possibly have won.
Cardinal rule keep the scoreboard ticking the number of straightforward
kickable penalties they rejected was ridiculous.
As a spectator I`m glad they played the way they did had a huge amount
of possession,for little reward.
Super Rugby at least in NZ currently is much more than the Provincial
sides .
Great game to watch thank you both sides.

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