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The EU Referendum - Thursday 23 June (with voting poll)

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Post by Derbymanc on Sat 11 Jun 2016, 10:15 am

First topic message reminder :

Hopefully it will stop the arguments about Gib and we can tell Spain to pee off

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Post by Guest on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 2:13 pm

Well who couldn't like 'The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn'? A great writer and worthy civil rights advocate, although his view on the natives is something of a black mark.

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Post by SecretFly on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 2:16 pm

Not in 'World' terms, Exiled! Wink The people in the dingy are the Leavers....

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Post by SecretFly on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 2:22 pm

Munchkin wrote:Well who couldn't like 'The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn'? A great writer and worthy civil rights advocate, although his view on the natives is something of a black mark.

Even today... the Native peoples are the forgotten people. As I always say, the day I see a fully Native man as President of that Nation then I'll be impressed. Obama got the plaudits for being a First. Clinton, if she makes it, will be considered a First. But neither First Black man nor First Female does it for me. I'm still waiting for a the True Moment.

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Post by Guest on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 2:41 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Munchkin wrote:Well who couldn't like 'The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn'? A great writer and worthy civil rights advocate, although his view on the natives is something of a black mark.

Even today... the Native peoples are the forgotten people.  As I always say, the day I see a fully Native man as President of that Nation then I'll be impressed.  Obama got the plaudits for being a First.  Clinton, if she makes it, will be considered a First.  But neither First Black man nor First Female does it for me.  I'm still waiting for a the True Moment.
A talking Eagle? Sam from the Muppets

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Post by Guest on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 2:42 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Munchkin wrote:Well who couldn't like 'The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn'? A great writer and worthy civil rights advocate, although his view on the natives is something of a black mark.

Even today... the Native peoples are the forgotten people.  As I always say, the day I see a fully Native man as President of that Nation then I'll be impressed.  Obama got the plaudits for being a First.  Clinton, if she makes it, will be considered a First.  But neither First Black man nor First Female does it for me.  I'm still waiting for a the True Moment.

Not sure it will ever happen. There's still a lot of prejudice against the Native American. I was watching a documentary about one of the tribes a few nights ago, and the living conditions and prospects are very poor, leading to a very high suicide rate among their young people. Heartbreaking to witness a once proud people so desolate of hope. They are very much 'the forgotten people'. Similar in many ways to the indigenous Australians.

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 2:52 pm

Munchkin wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Munchkin wrote:Well who couldn't like 'The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn'? A great writer and worthy civil rights advocate, although his view on the natives is something of a black mark.

Even today... the Native peoples are the forgotten people.  As I always say, the day I see a fully Native man as President of that Nation then I'll be impressed.  Obama got the plaudits for being a First.  Clinton, if she makes it, will be considered a First.  But neither First Black man nor First Female does it for me.  I'm still waiting for a the True Moment.

Not sure it will ever happen. There's still a lot of prejudice against the Native American. I was watching a documentary about one of the tribes a few nights ago, and the living conditions and prospects are very poor, leading to a very high suicide rate among their young people. Heartbreaking to witness a once proud people so desolate of hope. They are very much 'the forgotten people'. Similar in many ways to the indigenous Australians.


According to the BNP, so are the "indigenous peoples of the British Isles"....

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Post by SecretFly on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 2:53 pm

Munchkin wrote:

Not sure it will ever happen. There's still a lot of prejudice against the Native American. I was watching a documentary about one of the tribes a few nights ago, and the living conditions and prospects are very poor, leading to a very high suicide rate among their young people. Heartbreaking to witness a once proud people so desolate of hope. They are very much 'the forgotten people'. Similar in many ways to the indigenous Australians.

There you go, that's what I mean. I wonder do any of the vocal and politically savvy 'communities' in America - black/women/Hispanic/LGBT etc ever give a thought for the people whose country they all encroached on in one way or another.

I wonder has Obama, first black President, ever given them a thought through his term. Oppression and ethnic cleansing happened centuries before the blacks arrived on those shores as slaves - and continued then through the same period that blacks then worked the cotton fields.

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Post by Guest on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 3:00 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Munchkin wrote:Well who couldn't like 'The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn'? A great writer and worthy civil rights advocate, although his view on the natives is something of a black mark.

Even today... the Native peoples are the forgotten people.  As I always say, the day I see a fully Native man as President of that Nation then I'll be impressed.  Obama got the plaudits for being a First.  Clinton, if she makes it, will be considered a First.  But neither First Black man nor First Female does it for me.  I'm still waiting for a the True Moment.

Not sure it will ever happen. There's still a lot of prejudice against the Native American. I was watching a documentary about one of the tribes a few nights ago, and the living conditions and prospects are very poor, leading to a very high suicide rate among their young people. Heartbreaking to witness a once proud people so desolate of hope. They are very much 'the forgotten people'. Similar in many ways to the indigenous Australians.


According to the BNP, so are the "indigenous peoples of the British Isles"....

Well I suppose they may strongly identify with neolithic man Very Happy

Edit: Sorry, that was being unkind to neolithic man. Perhaps primordial soup would be more correct.


Last edited by Munchkin on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 3:15 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by SecretFly on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 3:12 pm

Nothing wrong with Neolithic man. They introduced more of the fundamentals of human civilisation today than any of the 'Classic' cultures ever did. And they managed to do it without books or twitter too - and - whilst knowing nothing about the inner workings of the Bank of England! Wink

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Post by Guest on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 3:16 pm

SecretFly wrote:Nothing wrong with Neolithic man.  They introduced more of the fundamentals of human civilisation today than any of the 'Classic' cultures ever did.  And they managed to do it without books or twitter too - and - whilst knowing nothing about the inner workings of the Bank of England! Wink

You are correct, Fly. I corrected my post above after I realised my error Very Happy

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Post by Coxy001 on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 3:25 pm

The thread has finally taken a turn for the better! Even Munchkin is showing an iota (justttt about) of intellect Wink

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Post by Guest on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 3:26 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Munchkin wrote:

Not sure it will ever happen. There's still a lot of prejudice against the Native American. I was watching a documentary about one of the tribes a few nights ago, and the living conditions and prospects are very poor, leading to a very high suicide rate among their young people. Heartbreaking to witness a once proud people so desolate of hope. They are very much 'the forgotten people'. Similar in many ways to the indigenous Australians.

There you go, that's what I mean.  I wonder do any of the vocal and politically savvy 'communities' in America  - black/women/Hispanic/LGBT etc ever give a thought for the people whose country they all encroached on in one way or another.

I wonder has Obama, first black President, ever given them a thought through his term.  Oppression and ethnic cleansing happened centuries before the blacks arrived on those shores as slaves - and continued then through the same period that blacks then worked the cotton fields.

You're right. Not much thought has been given to the Native Americans, but people are beginning to speak up about the lack of care towards some of the tribes, and highlighting the urgent need of help from the US Government. It remains to be seen if any but a token gesture is given.

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Post by SecretFly on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 3:28 pm

Only when Leave/Remain isn't discussed does intelligent chat return Wink

But most Leave/Remain folks are bored with this intellectual rubbish!

Back to the stone throwing please! Have a bit of respect for the topic at hand.

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Post by Guest on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 3:30 pm

Coxy001 wrote:The thread has finally taken a turn for the better! Even Munchkin is showing an iota (justttt about) of intellect Wink

This coming from a man who claimed I was a 'Leaver', and then claimed I didn't read! 'Stones and glass houses' springs to mind Laugh

But anyway, why go against the grain of the debate by introducing intelligent discussion? Very Happy

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 3:37 pm

I was just about to say that it's been quiet on the mudslinging front today, but then I realised that it's because the campaigns have been suspended.

It'll be business as usual on Monday no doubt, with another bunch of silly claims/counterclaims.

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Post by Guest on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 3:46 pm

I think it's because we are missing the wonderful insights of tophat and sandlebomber.

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Post by ShahenshahG on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 3:56 pm

The absence is due to the lack of stupidity on show. Once you return to form I'll be back to add to it.

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Post by Guest on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 5:44 pm

The Sandal Bomber wrote:The absence is evident in the lack of stupidity on show.....


Couldn't have said it better myself. Have a slice of cake cake

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Post by ShahenshahG on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 5:53 pm

Munchkin wrote:
The Sandal Bomber wrote:The absence is evident in the lack of stupidity on show.....


Couldn't have said it better myself. Have a slice of cake cake

laughing

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Post by Knowsit17 on Fri 17 Jun 2016, 7:24 pm

Nice to see Boris, Nige and Dave have succeeded in making the European debacle all about themselves. There are surely views and interpretations other than the extreme contrasts offered by Leave and Remain respectively but of course it wouldn't be politics without the 'us against them' spin.

Both sides contain muppets but the theme of the day seems to be choose your set of muppets and defend them to the hilt. Both are guilty of ridiculous claims made up as they go along and, surprise, based on eff all in the way of credible evidence. Leave with their arbitrary and incoherent assumptions against the tide of opinion from professional economists and Remain with their deliberately dark post-EU forecasts plucked from thin air.

My immediate albeit imperfect estimation is that the economy would take a blow in the aftermath of Brexit, contrary to the overly smooth transition Leave have been outlining. I also think it's potential fantasy to say that EU funding would continue until 2020 (we'd be in no position to demand it if we vote out 2016 and officially exit 2018). However I absolutely can't say how long or how severe a recession it would be. It depends on how long it would take the government to negotiate a new framework of trade agreements to replace the EU. Trade agreements generally take varying timescales to complete, so it's quite unpredictable.

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 18 Jun 2016, 12:43 am

EU referendum poll:
Remain: 45% (-4)
Leave: 55% (+4)
(via BMG, online / 10 - 15 Jun)
Excluding DKs.


EU referendum poll:
Remain: 53%
Leave: 47%
(via BMG, phone / 10 - 15 Jun)
Excluding DKs.


Online poll shows an extension of the lead for Leave, but a phone poll (the first by this company) shows Remain with an advantage.

So the real answer probably lies in the middle! Wink

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 18 Jun 2016, 12:15 pm

Another day another few hours of trying to dodge the lies and inaccurate meme's polluting out from the Remain camp as they still attempt to scare people into agreeing with everything they say. You should know that I had considered a remain vote when weighing up all the options, but I really can't stand this ongoing behaviour by the lowlife's on your side. I do honestly believe that it's pushing people away, well the folk who were on the fence at least. Also it's sad to see that some had latched on to the passing of Jo Cox (RIP) in order to try and push their agenda. The irony is that these people constantly lamabst others for this propaganda, yet they took the opportunity just hours after the shocking incident in West Yorkshire.

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Post by Hero on Sat 18 Jun 2016, 12:29 pm

You do realise the Leave camp are doing just as much lies and inaccurate memes?
Lowlifes on our side? You have Farage and you're supported by the BNP and British First, they're beyond contemptible!

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 18 Jun 2016, 12:33 pm

What I've seen is some weak-minded individuals being easily mislead on the Leave side, but not to a great extent and no lies or scaremongering which is what the remainers constantly do. That's just how I see it. 
Farage is an okay guy that's made out to be a Hitler-type person but then again the remainers do that to most people who disagree with them. The Leave campaign are supported by a lot of people, it's not as if they can pick and choose who supports them. I haven't seen themselves align with BNP and BF anyway so I'm not sure why you'd bring it up? Silly.

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Post by Hero on Sat 18 Jun 2016, 12:34 pm

Let me say this in regards to Jo Cox (RIP).
If she'd had been killed by someone shouting Allahu Akbar then if you think for one second that Farage et al wouldn't use that for their dirty smear campaigns against immigrants then you're a fool.

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Post by Hero on Sat 18 Jun 2016, 12:35 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:What I've seen is some weak-minded individuals being easily mislead on the Leave side, but not to a great extent and no lies or scaremongering which is what the remainers constantly do. That's just how I see it. 
Farage is an okay guy that's made out to be a Hitler-type person but then again the remainers do that to most people who disagree with them. The Leave campaign are supported by a lot of people, it's not as if they can pick and choose who supports them. I haven't seen themselves align with BNP and BF anyway so I'm not sure why you'd bring it up? Silly.

Well they didn't convince you so your first line is incorrect.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 18 Jun 2016, 12:38 pm

Hero wrote:Let me say this in regards to Jo Cox (RIP).
If she'd had been killed by someone shouting Allahu Akbar then if you think for one second that Farage et al wouldn't use that for their dirty smear campaigns against immigrants then you're a fool.

They probably would. So no I'm not a fool, I leave the foolishness to remainers like you. PS there was one witness who claims to have heard the murderer shout "BF" - this is at odds with reports from several other witnesses. Shameful that it was latched onto when most accounts state that it isn't true. also my point was that some folk (not sure about Farage as I don't think he's ever done it) have criticised the people for using Lee Rigby as propaganda, yet the same people do the same with little evidence. Even if true then it's just as low, and hypocritical. 

And so far the only person I've seen have it spot on is Jonathan pie!

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Post by Hero on Sat 18 Jun 2016, 12:39 pm

Billy Bragg got it spot on the other day.

"Not everyone who votes Leave is a racist, but every racist will vote Leave."

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 18 Jun 2016, 12:40 pm

Hero wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:What I've seen is some weak-minded individuals being easily mislead on the Leave side, but not to a great extent and no lies or scaremongering which is what the remainers constantly do. That's just how I see it. 
Farage is an okay guy that's made out to be a Hitler-type person but then again the remainers do that to most people who disagree with them. The Leave campaign are supported by a lot of people, it's not as if they can pick and choose who supports them. I haven't seen themselves align with BNP and BF anyway so I'm not sure why you'd bring it up? Silly.

Well they didn't convince you so your first line is incorrect.

Can a neutral moderator look at the report I made against this pathetic comment. Thanks. And you'd expect better from a mod eh.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sat 18 Jun 2016, 12:40 pm

"I considered remain" - you clearly didn't.

Leave is supporting Farage's Britain. That's the price to pay there. The blatant lies, guesswork and entrenched racism of much of Leave is abhorrent.

This is the unbiased media you are representing with Leave:

The EU Referendum - Thursday 23 June (with voting poll) - Page 11 Image10

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sat 18 Jun 2016, 12:41 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Hero wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:What I've seen is some weak-minded individuals being easily mislead on the Leave side, but not to a great extent and no lies or scaremongering which is what the remainers constantly do. That's just how I see it. 
Farage is an okay guy that's made out to be a Hitler-type person but then again the remainers do that to most people who disagree with them. The Leave campaign are supported by a lot of people, it's not as if they can pick and choose who supports them. I haven't seen themselves align with BNP and BF anyway so I'm not sure why you'd bring it up? Silly.

Well they didn't convince you so your first line is incorrect.

Can a neutral moderator look at the report I made against this pathetic comment. Thanks. And you'd expect better from a mod eh.

Can you shut up? Thanks. You'd expect better from a maggot

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 18 Jun 2016, 12:43 pm

Oh dear oh dear! This is gong to the dogs fast. I'll think I'll leave it but hope that some neutral mods look into the reports. Cheers.

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 18 Jun 2016, 12:48 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Oh dear oh dear! This is gong to the dogs fast. I'll think I'll leave it but hope that some neutral mods look into the reports. Cheers.

A lot of Remainers are entrenched in their self-righteousness so much, that they don't realise the extent of their own nastiness and bile.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sat 18 Jun 2016, 12:49 pm

The irony of our friend with the high IQ.

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Post by Knowsit17 on Sat 18 Jun 2016, 12:53 pm

Of course a country of maggots is exactly what large portions of Vote Leave want. Pasty, pinch-faced wiry maggots much in the image of Saint Nige, who has yet to learn the concept of GDP, tariffs and funding.

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Post by Ent on Sat 18 Jun 2016, 1:02 pm

What do people make of imf report.

IMF: Brexit May Not Mean A British Recession - Sky News
https://apple.news/AMA1rw91kQxG1o8am8j2sBg

Farage is basically "remember the good old days? Could leave your doors unlocked, 41p a litre of petrol and 1.50 a pint. Vote leave to bring that back"...

Can't believe anyone gets taken in by him.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sat 18 Jun 2016, 1:03 pm

To be honest maggot was in response to the crying over Hero insulting him back after his awful attempts to insult anyone voting Remain without it being an insult cos it's just his opinion.

My dad was tempted to use it as a protest vote, but as I have told him, this is one he can't take back when things go better. And as he told me, he didn't want to be aligned with the kind of people causing fights in France and throwing coins at refugee children.

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Post by ShahenshahG on Sat 18 Jun 2016, 1:04 pm

No point Bigzig And post stealing special hero.

Gove: Were getting tired of experts

Farage: I think the doctors have got it wrong on smoking

Farage: let's be like norway
Norway Pm: don't, you won't like it
Farage: look over there its only bloody bob geldof

Essentially each time you reply with facts and figures it looks like you're brow beating a special needs student. So duty is right in saying we don't see how nasty it looks. Leave em be because I suspect either you can be smug after the referendum that remain won or in the case that leave wins most of the people voting for them will bear the brunt of the decline because I don't think the post Brexit market will accept imaginary law degrees when hiring new employees.


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Post by Duty281 on Sat 18 Jun 2016, 1:04 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:You should know that I had considered a remain vote when weighing up all the options, but I really can't stand this ongoing behaviour by the lowlife's on your side.

Quite a few people I speak to are of the same mindset. They were leaning towards Remain, perhaps they even were going to vote Remain, but the actions of some people in the Remain side - whether it's Cameron, Rose or Rudd - and the lack of articulating any positive reasons for staying in the EU, has pushed them to Leave.

And this has been replicated, it seems, on a national scale if the polling is an accurate barometer.

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Post by Hero on Sat 18 Jun 2016, 1:13 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Hero wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:What I've seen is some weak-minded individuals being easily mislead on the Leave side, but not to a great extent and no lies or scaremongering which is what the remainers constantly do. That's just how I see it. 
Farage is an okay guy that's made out to be a Hitler-type person but then again the remainers do that to most people who disagree with them. The Leave campaign are supported by a lot of people, it's not as if they can pick and choose who supports them. I haven't seen themselves align with BNP and BF anyway so I'm not sure why you'd bring it up? Silly.

Well they didn't convince you so your first line is incorrect.

Can a neutral moderator look at the report I made against this pathetic comment. Thanks. And you'd expect better from a mod eh.

Owner, not mod. So good luck.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 18 Jun 2016, 1:16 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:To be honest maggot was in response to the crying over Hero insulting him back after his awful attempts to insult anyone voting Remain without it being an insult cos it's just his opinion.

My dad was tempted to use it as a protest vote, but as I have told him, this is one he can't take back when things go better. And as he told me, he didn't want to be aligned with the kind of people causing fights in France and throwing coins at refugee children.

I apologise for the misunderstanding but I wasn't trying to insult anyone voting remain. People can vote for who they like and I won't judge them for it - but if I was to vote leave then I doubt I'd get that from those in Remain who disagree with my vote. My comments may have been a bit misleading (unintentional) but I wasn't insinuating that everyone in the remain camp is a lowlife, it was more that the ones spreading lies and engaging in the scaremongering tactics, they're the low life's. There's also been some reasoned and informed debate, but I'm reading this Poopie on a daily basis and it's annoying. There's been some of that behaviour on this thread but a lot more sensible debate, from which I learned some advantages and disadvantages of both options from some people who come across as more informed than I am. 

Not sure I get your point on England football fans, but there has been a bit of a media witch hunt pouncing on everything they do. There's good supporters and thugs in all the footballing nations. The coverage has been a bit unfair in that regard.

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Post by Knowsit17 on Sat 18 Jun 2016, 1:18 pm

Duty281 wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:You should know that I had considered a remain vote when weighing up all the options, but I really can't stand this ongoing behaviour by the lowlife's on your side.

Quite a few people I speak to are of the same mindset. They were leaning towards Remain, perhaps they even were going to vote Remain, but the actions of some people in the Remain side - whether it's Cameron, Rose or Rudd - and the lack of articulating any positive reasons for staying in the EU, has pushed them to Leave.

And this has been replicated, it seems, on a national scale if the polling is an accurate barometer.

This is specifically the problem. People are making up their minds based on the faces they see in the official camps, not very much based on any semblance of genuine social belief and principle.

As for the all the banging on about a negative Remain campaign: as was said either on this thread or a previous one, what do you expect? The campaign is to stay in the EU, not to enter it to begin with. Of course there's going to be a lot said about what Britain will lose in the event of Brexit.

Although both sides contain numerous muppets, Vote Leave's arguments are much closer to outright lies. They fall flat on their face the closer you examine them. When VL are in fact making arguments of course. More often than not they're making broad statements without the slightest bit of explanation behind them.

Many of Remain's claims are greatly exaggerated of course, though the outright denial by VL that there would be even a tiny bit of trouble is just silly.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sat 18 Jun 2016, 1:19 pm

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The actions of...

"We Want Our County Back."

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Post by Ent on Sat 18 Jun 2016, 1:19 pm

The lowest thing that has been done either side of the debate is the leave campaign using the Orlando massacre.

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Post by Ent on Sat 18 Jun 2016, 1:21 pm

Though what Dolph posted might trump that.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sat 18 Jun 2016, 1:21 pm

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If we're gonna do this then you're gonna see that the lowest arguments have been made on one side

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sat 18 Jun 2016, 1:23 pm

Jo Cox MP: accused murderer Thomas Mair gives name as 'Death to traitors, freedom for Britain' in court.

Let's get that freedom.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sat 18 Jun 2016, 1:27 pm

Where does all the hate come from?

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Post by Knowsit17 on Sat 18 Jun 2016, 1:27 pm

And Farage branding Belgium a haven for jihadists following the Brussels attacks (not even an attempt to acknowledge the loss of life). Smacks of Trump's 'no one goes there' comments about London.

Of course Leave and Trump are remarkably similar in many ways. Not least in the sense that both are thinly veiled white supremacists who seem to have the ability to say whatever the heck they want and not suffer consequences.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 18 Jun 2016, 1:27 pm

That was out of order from whoever posted it, but it isn't representative of the leave campaign. Hopefully they reprimanded the person responsible, as I noted they were quick to condemn and remove it. 

For the sake of points-scoring this was also pretty low, and just as bad that they tried to defend it. 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3609357/Operation-Black-Vote-unveils-controversial-referendum-poster-comparing-Asian-woman-angry-white-thug-Nigel-Farage-claims-goes-far.html

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