Euro 2016 Discussion

Duty281 wrote:Sterling and Rooney have been woeful thus far and need to be dropped (but 1 of them certainly won't be), but I would favour giving Kane one final chance. He's had an excellent couple of seasons, and England shouldn't jettison him at the first sign of difficulty.

Rooney woeful? I'm not his biggest fan but he's been pretty good so far, working well alongside Dier allowing Alli to push on further

Duty281 wrote:Sterling and Rooney have been woeful thus far and need to be dropped (but 1 of them certainly won't be), but I would favour giving Kane one final chance. He's had an excellent couple of seasons, and England shouldn't jettison him at the first sign of difficulty.

Have you watched the games or you just continuing your anti Rooney stance you've had all season?

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Sterling and Rooney have been woeful thus far and need to be dropped (but 1 of them certainly won't be), but I would favour giving Kane one final chance. He's had an excellent couple of seasons, and England shouldn't jettison him at the first sign of difficulty.

Rooney woeful? I'm not his biggest fan but he's been pretty good so far, working well alongside Dier allowing Alli to push on further

Utterly atrocious.

He came into the game a bit into the second half, but that was only because Wales dropped deeper. He's far too much of a lightweight in the centre of midfield, and will be dispossessed with embarrassing ease on a regular basis the first time England come up against a decent side (Portugal in the Quarters, as looks likely). He struggles to make any incisive passes - though the commentators do have a collective orgasm when he pings a 40-yard sideways pass - and doesn't get forward enough.

Please, Roy, please drop him for super Jack.

Duty281 wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Sterling and Rooney have been woeful thus far and need to be dropped (but 1 of them certainly won't be), but I would favour giving Kane one final chance. He's had an excellent couple of seasons, and England shouldn't jettison him at the first sign of difficulty.

Rooney woeful? I'm not his biggest fan but he's been pretty good so far, working well alongside Dier allowing Alli to push on further

Utterly atrocious.

He came into the game a bit into the second half, but that was only because Wales dropped deeper. He's far too much of a lightweight in the centre of midfield, and will be dispossessed with embarrassing ease on a regular basis the first time England come up against a decent side (Portugal in the Quarters, as looks likely). He struggles to make any incisive passes - though the commentators do have a collective orgasm when he pings a 40-yard sideways pass - and doesn't get forward enough.

Please, Roy, please drop him for super Jack.

Wilshire.

Mr happy.

https://crowdfunding.justgiving.com/BringRaheemHome

Duty281 wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Sterling and Rooney have been woeful thus far and need to be dropped (but 1 of them certainly won't be), but I would favour giving Kane one final chance. He's had an excellent couple of seasons, and England shouldn't jettison him at the first sign of difficulty.

Rooney woeful? I'm not his biggest fan but he's been pretty good so far, working well alongside Dier allowing Alli to push on further

Utterly atrocious.

He came into the game a bit into the second half, but that was only because Wales dropped deeper. He's far too much of a lightweight in the centre of midfield, and will be dispossessed with embarrassing ease on a regular basis the first time England come up against a decent side (Portugal in the Quarters, as looks likely). He struggles to make any incisive passes - though the commentators do have a collective orgasm when he pings a 40-yard sideways pass - and doesn't get forward enough.

Please, Roy, please drop him for super Jack.

I thought some of your posts on the EU were funny but you're now becoming a parody character.

Hero wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Sterling and Rooney have been woeful thus far and need to be dropped (but 1 of them certainly won't be), but I would favour giving Kane one final chance. He's had an excellent couple of seasons, and England shouldn't jettison him at the first sign of difficulty.

Rooney woeful? I'm not his biggest fan but he's been pretty good so far, working well alongside Dier allowing Alli to push on further

Utterly atrocious.

He came into the game a bit into the second half, but that was only because Wales dropped deeper. He's far too much of a lightweight in the centre of midfield, and will be dispossessed with embarrassing ease on a regular basis the first time England come up against a decent side (Portugal in the Quarters, as looks likely). He struggles to make any incisive passes - though the commentators do have a collective orgasm when he pings a 40-yard sideways pass - and doesn't get forward enough.

Please, Roy, please drop him for super Jack.

I thought some of your posts on the EU were funny but you're now becoming a parody character.

I'm old these days, I see things for how they truly are.

There are no benefits to the EU, and there are also no benefits to Wayne Rooney being in the England side*

*And we shall all witness this when England come up against a decent technical side.

Rooney could we struggle against a top midfield but he has played well so far, duty.

John wrote:https://crowdfunding.justgiving.com/BringRaheemHome

joke of a player

Stella wrote:Rooney could we struggle against a top midfield but he has played well so far, duty.

He might struggle but the alternatives aren't exactly world class so he's in the side on merit, Duty clearly expects him to be the reincarnation of Pirlo or Xavi.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

Stella wrote:Rooney could we struggle against a top midfield but he has played well so far, duty.

He might struggle but the alternatives aren't exactly world class so he's in the side on merit, Duty clearly expects him to be the reincarnation of Pirlo or Xavi.

We do have Milner!!!

Stella wrote:Rooney could we struggle against a top midfield but he has played well so far, duty.

He plays half-decent when under no duress, like in the second half against Wales or most of the game versus Russia. When pressured, he plays at an appalling standard, and resorts to pinging hollywood passes, as he doesn't have the presence of mind to play intelligent short passes.

Most people, it seems, can't see this, even in light of how obvious it is. I mean, look at Keown's player ratings from yesterday:

WAYNE ROONEY (captain): Was excellent pulling the strings and I think we take him for granted. The way he punched the ball from sideline to sideline reminded me of Paul Scholes, and it was punishing for Wales. 8.5

Good Lord!

I think that's more down to you coming to a conclusion before the games and sticking to it afterwards regardless of how he plays but the laughing smiley really does reinforce your point so well done there.

I don't agree that Rooney has been appalling, but I do think he's been slightly overrated by the media and people on here. I think he hasn't really been tested, and I worry about his quality when/if England do get tested later on in the tournament. He's a bit sloppy with his passes and I think he lacks real vision to split a defence. 

I do think Wilshere or Henderson would be more effective against better sides, but appreciate that Rooney hasn't done anything to deserve being dropped.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I think that's more down to you coming to a conclusion before the games and sticking to it afterwards regardless of how he plays but the laughing smiley really does reinforce your point so well done there.

Nothing could be further from the truth. It seems the media, and indeed some fans, have some form of collective amnesia and have decided to ignore Rooney's first-half performance, which was diabolical.

Reminds me of Gerrard's woeful performance in the Champions League Final of 2005, but hey, everyone's forgotten that as well!

Rooney is second only to Ryan Giggs when it comes to all time assists in the Premier League but I fully agree he lacks vision.

Duty281 wrote:Reminds me of Gerrard's woeful performance in the Champions League Final of 2005, but hey, everyone's forgotten that as well!

I've watched that match multiple times, and that's just ludicrous. You can't single out Gerrard at all in that first half. AC Milan were absolutely fantastic, he barely got a chance to do anything. Then in the second half, he played three or four different positions and dragged Liverpool to win the Champions League, so obviously the focus is not going to be on the first half. Nobody in the Liverpool team played well in the first 45 minutes, but not sure Gerrard played particularly badly.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Rooney is second only to Ryan Giggs when it comes to all time assists in the Premier League but I fully agree he lacks vision.

To be fair, he's played the majority of his career much further up the pitch where the vision required is much different. Playing deeper means he has a lot more players between him and the goal and I'm not sure I've seen any evidence that he can break through the defence. He isn't a particularly good dribbler of the ball, he doesn't have fantastic accuracy in through balls. His main technique is to get the ball, then spread it out wide. Which is fine, if that's his role, but I do think he lacks the qualities needed to be a top central midfielder right now.

I do think if he plays there consistently for Manchester United in central midfield this year, he'll get better. But right now, I'm not convinced that he won't get run all over against a better side.

Crimey wrote:I don't agree that Rooney has been appalling, but I do think he's been slightly overrated by the media and people on here. I think he hasn't really been tested, and I worry about his quality when/if England do get tested later on in the tournament. He's a bit sloppy with his passes and I think he lacks real vision to split a defence.

That's the key point here. Rooney has faced Russia's B midfield & the wonderful duo of Ledley & Allen. The same story goes with Walker, he hasn't had to defend whatsoever in this tournament so far, so it was quite clear, that these two in particular, would benefit & be given the freedom to express themselves & impress. As far as I'm concerned, I fear both will be found out later in the tournament, maybe even Rose, but seeing as UEFA have increased the tournament, we now have to endure this phase of 'removing' the woeful teams, something that the qualifying campaign is designed for. This tournament isn't going to start until the QF, you could see the Germans in first gear last night, knowing they've basically qualified with a point. England will probably face Romania in the second round & again, Rooney will look class. It's the bit after that, where the reality kicks in & Duty's belief most of our side will be shown up, will no doubt, ring true.

Deep lying midfielders aren't the creative hub of a team, they're there to get the ball off the defence and spread the play, it's the role of the number 10 to produce the chances and I actually think Alli has been failing in that role somewhat.

Wilshere would be in the team if he could a) stay fit and b) prove he could do it consistently, he's a a liability as a starter because you expect him to break down at any point.

I don't think anyone thinks Rooney will dominate and pick apart an Italy, but to suggest he has been woeful thus far is mental.

Service like that was missing for Sweden against Ireland. A few more and Zlatan may pounce.

I wouldn't call Rooney deep lying! The role of the ten is to link the play between the midfield and the usually lone striker. To be able to link that play he has to receive the ball from the two central midfielders (be it 2 CM's or 1 cm & 1 dm) I agree that Alli hasn't imposed himself on the game yet but to say Rooney shouldn't be looking to play key through balls is a bit silly.

Pirlo, Iniesta, Xavi..just a few players who don't play number 10 position but more a CM role yet they are incisive and clinical with their passing.

I don't think Rooney has been woeful but like duty, seen enough in his game to suggest he's going to struggle when it comes to the better sides in the tournament.

Hoping Italy can pick up another win today, enjoyed watching them last week.

Could do with an Italy win here

Generous foul for Italy against Zlatan there

owen10ozzy wrote:I wouldn't call Rooney deep lying! The role of the ten is to link the play between the midfield and the usually lone striker. To be able to link that play he has to receive the ball from the two central midfielders (be it 2 CM's or 1 cm & 1 dm) I agree that Alli hasn't imposed himself on the game yet but to say Rooney shouldn't be looking to play key through balls is a bit silly.

Pirlo, Iniesta, Xavi..just a few players who don't play number 10 position but more a CM role yet they are incisive and clinical with their passing.

I don't think Rooney has been woeful but like duty, seen enough in his game to suggest he's going to struggle when it comes to the better sides in the tournament.

Hoping Italy can pick up another win today, enjoyed watching them last week.

Iniesta did play the 10 role quite frequently and was nothing like Pirlo or Xavi who played far too deep to be compared to him.

Neither Pirlo or Xavi weren't the creative hub of their teams, they made things tick, keeping the ball moving and making sure the creative players got the ball in dangerous areas. Neither of them consistently assisted and would be expected to assist no more than a handful of goals each season, you've got the role they played completely wrong.

owen10ozzy wrote:

Hoping Italy can pick up another win today, enjoyed watching them last week.

Who are you and what have you done to Owen

Sweden look decent here.

2 Italian players grabbing 1 Sweden players shirt simultaneously, Italy get the free kick

Sweden don't have the ability or the players to exploit Italy's weaknesses, so the Italians should be comfortable here.

Zlatans been close to breaking down their strength a couple of times already Duty so I wouldn't be too sure.

Slow start from Italy, and this whistle-happy referee isn't helping.

Hes helping the Italians more than the Swedes!

I think Belgium have flattered what is a very poor Italian side, they've offered nothing going forward.

Italys midfield haven't gotten into this game so far and their attack is isolated as a result. Kallstrom and someone I can't spell the name of are dominating the middle so far.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I think Belgium have flattered what is a very poor Italian side, they've offered nothing going forward.

Be careful about being quoted on that

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

owen10ozzy wrote:I wouldn't call Rooney deep lying! The role of the ten is to link the play between the midfield and the usually lone striker. To be able to link that play he has to receive the ball from the two central midfielders (be it 2 CM's or 1 cm & 1 dm) I agree that Alli hasn't imposed himself on the game yet but to say Rooney shouldn't be looking to play key through balls is a bit silly.

Pirlo, Iniesta, Xavi..just a few players who don't play number 10 position but more a CM role yet they are incisive and clinical with their passing.

I don't think Rooney has been woeful but like duty, seen enough in his game to suggest he's going to struggle when it comes to the better sides in the tournament.

Hoping Italy can pick up another win today, enjoyed watching them last week.

Iniesta did play the 10 role quite frequently and was nothing like Pirlo or Xavi who played far too deep to be compared to him.

Neither Pirlo or Xavi weren't the creative hub of their teams, they made things tick, keeping the ball moving and making sure the creative players got the ball in dangerous areas. Neither of them consistently assisted and would be expected to assist no more than a handful of goals each season, you've got the role they played completely wrong.

Think pirlo and Xavi both have more assists than iniesta.

Turning defense into attack and the pass before the assist overlooked.

Rooney is crap in cm, gives the ball away too easily and isn't incisive enough.

Think Italy were flattered by a poor Belgium in their first game. Sweden playing better than they did against Ireland, but nothing particularly special. 

Think this may be heading for a boring draw. Italy will be happy with the point, Sweden don't have the quality to break them down.

GSC wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I think Belgium have flattered what is a very poor Italian side, they've offered nothing going forward.

Be careful about being quoted on that

I've got money of them so hoping I can reverse jinx them into action.

For most of their careers Xavi and Pirlo weren't deep lying playmakers anyway. Xavi in particular during Peps time in charge.

Rooneys role in this team is clearly to pick the ball up from the CBs and offer an outlet behind for the wingers and Alli. Then get England moving forward by finding the free man. An occasional burst from deep is a bonus. Hes doing that well.

Englands opponents have sat deep which is allowing Rooney time on the ball, but similarly are making it very difficult to break them down. Hell we've seen Barca struggle to break down teams like Celtic, its very difficult to break down a well marshalled team prepared to sit deep and soak up pressure.

Zlatan is two or three steps above every attacking player on the pitch today.

Sweden are a below-average side, and any half-decent team should lay waste to them with considerable ease and aplomb.

Which is why Italy are such a frustrating team to watch, today. Play the thing on the ground, stop lumping it upfield to the Swedish keeper.

This is more like the Italy some (including me ) expected to see at this tournament. Very experienced, very good at the back, but its an ordinary group in front of them.

Italy have probably looked at the dodgy second round draw they've been given & don't actually want to win this group

Sweden look up for it though. Been a big improvement on their last game.

That was pretty naughty

Why have I got their role wrong Hammer? What role would you say they played & what role do you think Rooney is being asked to play/which past or present player do you feel has a comparable role?

If Rooney's role is to pick the ball off the CB and also provide an outlet for Alli & the wingers...then arguably his role is as Cental midfield working between the lines of defensive unit and the offensive unit...if that's the case then his role isn't merely to switch the play to the wings and provide 30 yard passes side to side...

You say neither Xavi or Pirlo were the creative hubs of there team..yet the statistics would suggest that couldn't be further from the truth...

Pirlo - From 2001-08 ...271 games 22 assists 5 goals
From 2008-15 ... 326 games 62 assists 31 goals

Xavi - From 2001-08... 291 games 15 assists 35 goals
From 2008-14... 338 games 109 assists 56 goals

Interestingly in both cases when the two players became more deep lying midfielders they became more potent in their ability to create chances. So, if as you said earlier, Rooney's role is as a deep lying midfielder the argument that he isn't their to create chances doesn't ring true. He still has a duty as a midfielder to make incisive passes and get the ball forward both quikcly and clinically in order for our offensive options to get in behind or pick up the ball in dangerous areas in the final 3rd.

GSC wrote:Sweden look up for it though. Been a big improvement on their last game.

Agreed. Not great though for Westy and his Irish Republic boys. A point today would be a bonus for Sweden and make qualification harder for the Irish.

Both Xavi and Pirlo ended up with less than 50 league assists each, considering they both played over 500 games that's hardly the sign of a creative player, your stats are well off. Their role in the team was to give things moving, tick tock tick tock, they were metronomic when at their best. The same is also true of Scholes and Alonso who played the same deep lying role.

Rooney's role in the team is to do exactly what Hodgson asks him to do and that quite clearly is to switch the play to the wings at the earliest opportunity, your idea of what a central midfielder now does seems stuck in the 80's, players don't play like Bryan Robson any more.

Get up FFS.

Book these cnts for play acting.

Pathetic