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Whitewash or Backlash - Austrlia v England, 3rd Test

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Whitewash or Backlash - Austrlia v England, 3rd Test Empty Whitewash or Backlash - Austrlia v England, 3rd Test

Post by LondonTiger Wed 22 Jun 2016, 3:49 pm

Whitewash or Backlash - Austrlia v England, 3rd Test Austra10      Whitewash or Backlash - Austrlia v England, 3rd Test Englan10
AUSTRALIA v ENGLAND
25 June 2016
20:00 AEST (UTC+10)
Allianz Stadium, Sydney
Live on [Sky Sports]

Referee: Nigel Owens (Wales)
Touch judges: Craig Joubert (South Africa), Mike Fraser (New Zealand)
Television match official: Ben Skeen (New Zealand)
A. Head to Head

46 Played 46
25 Won 20
1 Drawn 1
20 Lost 25
975 Points 736

B. Recent Form

18 June 2016 - AAMI, Melbourne: Australia 7-23 England

11 June 2016 - Suncorp, Brisbane: Australia 28–39 England

3 October 2015 - Twickenham, London: 13 – 33 to Australia

29 November 2014 - Twickenham, London: 26 – 17 to England

2 November 2013 - Twickenham, London: 20 – 13 to England

17 November 2012 - Twickenham, London: 14 – 20 to Australia

13 November 2010 - Twickenham, London: 35 – 18 to England

19 June 2010 - Telstra Stadium, Sydney: 20 – 21 to England



C. Teams

AUSTRALIA 
Whitewash or Backlash - Austrlia v England, 3rd Test Roos10

1. James Slipper – Reds (76 Tests)
2. Stephen Moore (c) – Brumbies (104 Tests)
3. Sekope Kepu – Waratahs (65 Tests)
4. Will Skelton – Waratahs (14 Tests)
5. Rob Simmons – Reds (61 Tests)
6. Scott Fardy – Brumbies (32 Tests)
7. Michael Hooper (vc) – Waratahs (53 Tests)
8. Sean McMahon – Rebels (8 Tests)
9. Nick Phipps – Waratahs (41 Tests)
10. Bernard Foley – Waratahs (29 Tests)
11. Rob Horne (vc)  – Waratahs (31 Tests)
12. Matt Toomua – Brumbies (31 Tests)
13. Tevita Kuridrani – Brumbies (33 Tests)
14. Dane Haylett-Petty – Western Force (2 Tests)
15. Israel Folau – Waratahs (40 Tests)

Replacements (One to be omitted)

Tatafu Polota-Nau – Waratahs (63 Tests)
Scott Sio – Brumbies (17 Tests)
Greg Holmes – Reds (25 Tests)
Adam Coleman (Uncapped)
Dean Mumm – Waratahs (46 Tests)
Wycliff Palu – Waratahs (57 Tests)
Nick Frisby – Reds (2 Tests)
Christian Leali’ifano – Brumbies (17 Tests)
Taqele Naiyaravoro – Waratahs (1 Test)



ENGLAND
Whitewash or Backlash - Austrlia v England, 3rd Test Lion10

15. Mike Brown (Harlequins, 51 caps)
14. Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 23 caps)
13. Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby, 24 caps)
12. Owen Farrell (Saracens, 42 caps)
11. Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 16 caps)
10. George Ford (Bath Rugby, 24 caps)
9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 60 caps)
1. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 34 caps)
2. Dylan Hartley (captain, Northampton Saints, 74 caps)
3. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 64 caps)
4. Maro Itoje (Saracens, 6 caps)
5. George Kruis (Saracens, 17 caps)
6. Chris Robshaw (Harlequins, 50 caps)
7. Teimana Harrison (Northampton Saints, 1 cap)
8. Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 28 caps)

Replacements

16. Jamie George (Saracens, 7 caps)
17. Matt Mullan (Wasps 12 caps)
18. Paul Hill (Northampton Saints, 4 caps)
19. Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 34 caps)
20. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 48 caps)
21. Jack Clifford (Harlequins, 7 caps)
22. Danny Care (Harlequins, 61 caps)
23. Elliot Daly (Wasps, 4 caps)


Last edited by LondonTiger on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 10:11 am; edited 2 times in total

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Post by Rugby Fan Wed 22 Jun 2016, 3:55 pm

The main thing I want to see at the weekend is Craig Joubert flagging for an English offence, only to see Nigel Owens penalize Australia after looking at the video. Then a close-up of Owens smirking.

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Post by lostinwales Wed 22 Jun 2016, 4:01 pm

Australia were seriously rattled at the start of the 2nd test and shell shocked by the end. If they don't get their heads in the right place they will lose. If they do then they might get some redemption of their own - but this English team has a fantastic aura about them.

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Post by bedfordwelsh Wed 22 Jun 2016, 5:13 pm

Whitewash
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Post by yappysnap Wed 22 Jun 2016, 5:36 pm

Has to be the whitewash. We don't want to finish this tour on a sour note.

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Post by englandglory4ever Wed 22 Jun 2016, 8:07 pm

Australia threw their hard running backs at England whenever they could. Chieka says they aren't going to change the way they play the game. So we can expect more of the same from them. Trouble is it took a massive amount of passion and intensity from England to keep them out. Can England do it again without Haskell? It will be tough and anybody's game.

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Post by HammerofThunor Wed 22 Jun 2016, 10:09 pm

I'm expecting a backlash, combined with complete exhaustion from our players who gave everything. Or fresh players will be brought in but not be as settled. Of course I expected a loss in the 2nd

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Post by SecretFly Wed 22 Jun 2016, 10:34 pm

The lie of the land seems to suggest to me whitewash. England are on a roll - I don't think this tour will put a stop to it.

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Post by yappysnap Wed 22 Jun 2016, 10:39 pm

HammerofThunor wrote:I'm expecting a backlash, combined with complete exhaustion from our players who gave everything. Or fresh players will be brought in but not be as settled. Of course I expected a loss in the 2nd

How are you enjoying the rugby HoT? Has it got you keen for the new season now after the RWC slump?

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Post by Rugby Fan Thu 23 Jun 2016, 12:33 am

It's already on theold match thread, but reports say Harrison and Yarde to start in place of Haskell and Nowell, while it sounds like Te'o might get on the bench.

If it's true about Te'o, it might be a risk to go with a 6:2 bench split, given that he's not as versatile as Daly, while Yarde can't cover other positions as well as Nowell.

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Post by Poorfour Thu 23 Jun 2016, 2:22 am

Reports suggested that Itoje would play 6 in the first test, too...

The journos are extrapolating from who did what in training, which is not necessarily an indication of what Eddie I has planned.
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Post by Rugby Fan Thu 23 Jun 2016, 2:52 am

Australian starting XV

1. James Slipper
2. Stephen Moore (c)
3. Sekope Kepu
4. Will Skelton
5. Rob Simmons
6. Scott Fardy
7. Michael Hooper (vc)
8. Sean McMahon
9. Nick Phipps
10. Bernard Foley
11. Rob Horne (vc)
12. Matt Toomua
13. Tevita Kuridrani
14. Dane Haylett-Petty
15. Israel Folau

Big Will Skelton makes his first appearance in the series. Allegedly a liability in the lineout but can be a handful as a carrier and in mauls.

Simmons is back at lock, presumably to offer one reliable lineout target.

Toomua comes back from injury at inside centre. Kerevi is dropped entirely. That should pose a different challenge for the defence.

Replacements will be eight from the following nine names:

Tatafu Polota-Nau – Waratahs (63 Tests)
Scott Sio – Brumbies (17 Tests)
Greg Holmes
Adam Coleman
Dean Mumm
Wycliff Palu
Nick Frisby
Christian Leali’ifano
Taqele Naiyaravoro

Lock Adam Coleman is the only uncapped player.

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Post by offload Thu 23 Jun 2016, 7:10 am

I think England will do it. Australia are misfiring and England have improved a good deal. I like Jones and what he has done to this team. I don't think fatigue will be a factor until the final whistle - then they'll deserve a good rest.
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Post by Sgt_Pooly Thu 23 Jun 2016, 7:17 am

That looks a stronger Aus side than previous games bar Pocock, I can see them sneaking this game unfortunately.

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Post by HammerofThunor Thu 23 Jun 2016, 7:31 am

yappysnap wrote:How are you enjoying the rugby HoT? Has it got you keen for the new season now after the RWC slump?

Definitely enjoying. I was dancing a jig and sweeping like a girl when Farrell got his try. I was punching the air every time they lost the ball on our line. I usually watch sat on my arse and nod at good thing and grunt at bad things.

Unfortunately, Saracens and Bath paying their way out of trouble soiled the domestic league for me. And the fact BT upped their prices due to the football. I'll watch some on the website the day after and see if the spark is still their. The new RFU/PRL agreement may have an impact too, depending on what it has in it.

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Post by Rugby Fan Thu 23 Jun 2016, 7:34 am

A lot of Australian sites think the selection reflects muddled thinking.

I think it's a blend of forwards that Cheika considered before but rejected because he thought it would be too weak at the set piece. Now that he's lost two on the trot, it's a chance to see if the approach works any better.

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Post by lostinwales Thu 23 Jun 2016, 7:56 am

Can't believe they have stuck with McMahon at 8. He's not a bad player but he did sod all last game and they are still playing two 7's who don't do much breakdown work and nothing in the lineout. So Fardy is back to doing the work of 3 guys again.

Skelton is not an 80 minute player. He'll add impact early on but its not like we don't have big guys to stop him and there is a price to pay with having him there. Reports say that Carter didn't show up much but did do a hell of a lot of work at rucks etc. Seems unlucky to have missed out. The general consensus I have seen from the Australians is that Kerevi has also played well (and better than Kurudani) so seems to be unlucky to have been left out.

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Post by majesticimperialman Thu 23 Jun 2016, 8:29 am

I do hope it is a white wash, but Australia will pull out ll the stops this week end. It is just a case will England can keep Australia away from the try line.


I do believe England can do it. The last 2 games give me confidence England can do it.

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Post by Rugby Fan Thu 23 Jun 2016, 8:46 am

We are unlikely to get away with defending like we did last week, so we'll need to pose some tactical challenges of our own.

I'd like us to make a mess of their lineout. So far, we've put pressure on it without totally disrupting it, and making them worried about going into touch.

Since the Wallabies will probably expect a lot of kicking again, it'd be nice to see George Ford try a break if he sees a gap.

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Post by lostinwales Thu 23 Jun 2016, 9:07 am

All evidence says that we played the way we did last weekend because of the conditions. If its a decent track then we will keep the ball longer. If Australia keep on committing penalties at the breakdown then we'll keep scoring quickly.

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Post by Scottrf Thu 23 Jun 2016, 10:05 am

Whitewash I think. Australia have been one dimensional and out thought.

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Post by LondonTiger Thu 23 Jun 2016, 10:12 am

OP updated with both teams.

Nowell has been selected so only change is Harrison for Haskell. Assuming conditions are much better in Sydney, England will need to play more like they did for the last 50 minutes in Brisbane.

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Post by hugehandoff Thu 23 Jun 2016, 10:12 am

Northampton flanker Teimana Harrison will start for England in Saturday's third Test against Australia as Eddie Jones' men aim for a whitewash.

Harrison, 23, who made his debut against Wales in May, replaces the injured James Haskell.

The rest of the England squad remains unchanged with wing Jack Nowell fit to start after recovering from concussion.

England have beaten Australia in Brisbane and Melbourne to secure their first series win down under.

England: Mike Brown, Anthony Watson, Jonathan Joseph, Owen Farrell, Jack Nowell, George Ford, Ben Youngs, Mako Vunipola, Dylan Hartley (captain), Dan Cole, Maro Itoje, George Kruis, Chris Robshaw, Teimana Harrison, Billy Vunipola

Replacements: Jamie George, Matt Mullan, Paul Hill, Joe Launchbury, Courtney Lawes, Jack Clifford, Danny Care, Elliot Daly

Surprised there are not more changes so hopefully the boys are ok and up for this.

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Post by lostinwales Thu 23 Jun 2016, 10:33 am

Foot on the throat it is then:) Big game needed from Harrison but I might start to dream of the whitewash.

Hate to say it but hope Nigel Owens isn't too lenient on the breakdown, because so far it's mostly been only one team offending there....

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Post by Rugby Fan Thu 23 Jun 2016, 10:41 am

It's a shame Slade will get no game time at all. Cipriani might be a bit happier now that he went with the Saxons, albeit he's probably no higher in the pecking order.

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Post by Scottrf Thu 23 Jun 2016, 10:42 am

Rugby Fan wrote:It's a shame Slade will get no game time at all.
The touchline reporter Henry Slade?

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Post by propdavid_london Thu 23 Jun 2016, 11:01 am

There are a number of guys that are missing out but they will have gained from being in and around the group.
Goode, Teo, Sinkler, Genge, Slade........

I am hoping that the guys have enough in the tank for the final game...like others I expected more changes for this test.

Skelton coming into the wallabies is a lot of beef - He will shore up the pack but not particularly helpful in the linout.
Matt Tooma possibly is the biggest worry as adds that midfield creativity that's worked for them in the past, and its a Brumbies combo so they know each other better. This partnership will be a different beast to the 2 boshers of the previous tests.


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Post by bluestonevedder Thu 23 Jun 2016, 11:08 am

Good looking squad, and i'm looking forward to seeing Harrison. Very different player to Haskell so it will be interesting to see how the dynamic changes in the backrow.

Skelton is an interesting shout for the Wallabies. I can only assume that Cheika is fed up of losing the physical battle. I reckon Skelton will be a handful for his first few carries, but will quickly lose pace with the game. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think he's been dropped for the previous games because of poor fitness?

Also interested to see them retain the lightweight backrow. Got to feel for Fardy a bit! The guy's a workhouse but I feel too much is expected of him.

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Post by Gooseberry Thu 23 Jun 2016, 11:10 am

For all the abus ethe "pre scripted" 50 minute subs have taken over recent years with a 6-2 spilt I really would want to see the forwards being used as soon as the front 8 start flagging. Both sides were dead on their feet by 60 minutes in the last test, and taht bench really should be used the way its been sleected...to make sure England can carry their high tempo forward dominated defencive game through 80 minutes.
The work rate of the England pack has been incredible..sustaining itf or a 3rd weekend in a row could be problematic.

Aus need to start turning posession and territory into points. A bit more creativity in the centers may help that.

History has already been made, so whatever the result it should be remembered as a real triumph. One does not simply walk into SANZAR and come away with a series victory.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 23 Jun 2016, 11:15 am

Can't blame Jones for sticking as closely to the same team as he could. Still a bit worried if Farrell gets and early injury!

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Post by George Carlin Thu 23 Jun 2016, 11:20 am

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Post by propdavid_london Thu 23 Jun 2016, 11:37 am

Injuries are a bit of a concern for some positions. Although, Farrell injured and Daly slots in at 12 or juggle Daly and Joseph at 12-13.
Same situation if Ford is injured and Farrell steps into 10.
Most other positions are covered by juggling the personnel we have.

My concern is following this tour, have we now decided on the midfield combo for England? In EJ's mind is he going to firmly stick with Ford and Farrell (FF) at 10-12 or is he ever going to try different combinations?

Im not knocking the FF combination as we have won a slam and Oz series off the back of it, but do we now think of Farrell as more of a 12 than a 10?

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Post by lostinwales Thu 23 Jun 2016, 11:47 am

Farrell's kicking makes him all but undropable at the moment. Ford's playmaking is wonderful.

I don't think its set in stone but it may take an injury before anyone else gets a look in in a game that matters. Farrell has settled more into his role at 12 than any of us would have expected.

There may be room for other combos at some point. Tuilagi may return to the form that made him an automatic pick, which may mean rejigging things to re balance the back line around him, And Slade may replace one or both of the FF combo but it will be hard for him.

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Post by yappysnap Thu 23 Jun 2016, 12:07 pm

A few good quotes from Eddie:

"You have to work extremely hard to earn an England cap so there was no temptation to make changes for the sake of change. To play for England you have to be in the best 23, and we've picked the best 23, that's always been our selection policy and that'll never change as long as I'm the England coach."


"Our next best option at 7 is Harrison, Clifford's a great player and unlucky to miss out, but at the moment we just think Harrison's robustness at the start of the game will be very important for us."


"We've treated this week like a dress rehearsal for the World Cup because that what we're always building towards. To win a World Cup you have to win three big games in a row – we've won two so this third game is the most important game we'll play all year. It will be a good indication of where we are as a team."


"They have been inspired by the challenge of playing better for the last game. Credit has to go to the coaching staff, particularly Steve Borthwick, Paul Gustard, Neal Hatley and Glen Ella who have worked tirelessly to keep improving this squad of players."

I'd forgotten that Ella was there for this tour as the backs coach. EJ's has also brought in Andrew Johns (an apparently famous ex NRL player) to give some technical advice before the Third Test.

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Post by yappysnap Thu 23 Jun 2016, 12:17 pm

propdavid_london wrote:Injuries are a bit of a concern for some positions.  Although, Farrell injured and Daly slots in at 12 or juggle Daly and Joseph at 12-13.  
Same situation if Ford is injured and Farrell steps into 10.  
Most other positions are covered by juggling the personnel we have.

My concern is following this tour, have we now decided on the midfield combo for England?  In EJ's mind is he going to firmly stick with Ford and Farrell (FF) at 10-12 or is he ever going to try different combinations?

Im not knocking the FF combination as we have won a slam and Oz series off the back of it, but do we now think of Farrell as more of a 12 than a 10?

Before this tour I was still a little unsure of the 10/12 combo but Burrells performance and then the subsequent success has really made me believe that the FF combo is our best choice. They just compliment each other well, seem to get along well and each one makes up for the others weaknesses, isn't that the point of a combination? Unless there's an injury or big drop in form i'd leave it as is.

13 for me is the position that could change, I'd love to see JJ get back to his best, if not then another player who brings something special to the team. Either Manu, Daly or another.

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Post by BamBam Thu 23 Jun 2016, 12:20 pm

yappysnap wrote:

I'd forgotten that Ella was there for this tour as the backs coach. EJ's has also brought in Andrew Johns (an apparently famous ex NRL player) to give some technical advice before the Third Test.

That's like saying Brian O'Driscoll was an apparently famous rugby union player!!

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Post by LondonTiger Thu 23 Jun 2016, 12:56 pm

BamBam wrote:
yappysnap wrote:

I'd forgotten that Ella was there for this tour as the backs coach. EJ's has also brought in Andrew Johns (an apparently famous ex NRL player) to give some technical advice before the Third Test.

That's like saying Brian O'Driscoll was an apparently famous rugby union player!!

We always hope that our superstars can transcend the sport and be known by more than just followers of the sport. While Johns is probably a bigger name in RL than BOD was in RU, both are minority sports.

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Post by yappysnap Thu 23 Jun 2016, 3:48 pm

Wilkinson though may have done it, in England and Australia at least

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Post by sad_gimp Thu 23 Jun 2016, 5:56 pm

Whitewash for me. I think the first two games and 6N have answered our questions about inside center. Ford and Farrell works.

Not just the intensity of our defence that's improved, it's not giving away penalties in our own half which we have suffered from for years. Pretty sure we'll have too much for Aus and possibly make the biggest win in the series.

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Post by Poorfour Thu 23 Jun 2016, 6:10 pm

Just to fan the flames, the cheeky Telegraph have suggested that only one Aussie would make the combined XV after the first two games. Can you guess who?

Eng 14, Aus 1

I'm still nervous about this one. Harrison is pretty raw at this level, albeit talented and with a talented backup in Clifford, and Australia will be desperate to salvage something from the series. A lot comes down to Eddie's message that this is an RWC Final: the third big game in a row. If he can get them to lift themselves for this, then it bodes very well for the future.
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Post by englandglory4ever Thu 23 Jun 2016, 9:56 pm

I'm hugely excited about Eddie, his coaches and player's approach to this 3rd match. If England win it will be massive. It will be right up there with the 2003 team's achievement. But it won't be the end of the world if they lose.

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Post by Gooseberry Thu 23 Jun 2016, 10:03 pm

Well there is a series we can be sure will be a white (or black) wash

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Post by Notch Thu 23 Jun 2016, 10:52 pm

Cheika describes Englands tactics as 'dull' and wants them to open up a bit more. 

"Eddie and me play different footy. We are not set up to play kick and chase footy. We play running rugby."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/36608734

Does this stuff really make the Aussies feel better about losing? I remember Cheika won a Heineken Cup with Leinster playing a lot more 'dull' rugby than England play so he's clearly deflecting here, but do people in Australia really lap this up?
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Post by lostinwales Thu 23 Jun 2016, 11:35 pm

Notch wrote:Cheika describes Englands tactics as 'dull' and wants them to open up a bit more. 

"Eddie and me play different footy. We are not set up to play kick and chase footy. We play running rugby."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/36608734

Does this stuff really make the Aussies feel better about losing? I remember Cheika won a Heineken Cup with Leinster playing a lot more 'dull' rugby than England play so he's clearly deflecting here, but do people in Australia really lap this up?

Seems so.

The stuff which really bugs me is linking failure against England with the collapse of RU in Australia and fans going to ARL and league. I do really appreciate that rugby union has very tough competition in Australia but its not our responsibility to try and save it by losing.

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Post by Poorfour Fri 24 Jun 2016, 2:11 am

Looks to me like Cheika has dusted off Bob Dwyer's old tactic from the 1991 RWC Final of trying to taunt England into playing a game that suits Australia.

It's sort of touching that he is quite that desperate. It worked then, but I can't see it working again.
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Post by Gooseberry Fri 24 Jun 2016, 8:01 am

Notch wrote: I remember Cheika won a Heineken Cup with Leinster playing a lot more 'dull' rugby than England play so he's clearly deflecting here, but do people in Australia really lap this up?

Its hardly just the Aussies is it? This sort of thing has been levelled at every NH side in the last few decades regardless of whther they are winning or not....and to England by the rest of the NH whenever they win a game (moral victors etc.)
Kick chase is perhaps slightly nicer than up the jumper 10 man rugby I guess.

Someone should remind him that its called "footy" because rugby is a football (ie kicking) game at heart.

As for the Aussie media it does seem to have stayed fairly loyal to the team so far, seeking to lay the blame on refereeing, Englands tactics and the existance of NRL ratehr than going full on for their own team and coach like the British press would.

All that said thoug Jones has delibertaely tried to stoke the media fire, and wanted this to be a series with needle and traded insults. The mention of bodyline at the start made it clear he was quite happy to come along and upset people, England were never on a mission to win friends.
And Cheika has taken stick for not passively letting Jones control the headlines and undermine his team. So hitting back, even limply like this, is hardly a surprise.



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Post by yappysnap Fri 24 Jun 2016, 10:28 am

I've heard it bandied about a lot, but just what the heck is bodyline??

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Post by BamBam Fri 24 Jun 2016, 10:30 am

yappysnap wrote:I've heard it bandied about a lot, but just what the heck is bodyline??

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodyline

Comes from an England cricket tactic to try and nullify Don Bradman (an apparently famous cricket player Wink )

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Post by lostinwales Fri 24 Jun 2016, 10:30 am

yappysnap wrote:I've heard it bandied about a lot, but just what the heck is bodyline??

Its when some nasty evil English cricket tourists decided to bowl at Australian cricketers rather than in the right place to allow them to hit regular boundaries as was traditional.

The Australians thought it wasn't cricket...

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Post by Cyril Fri 24 Jun 2016, 10:42 am

There's nothing quite so satisfying as using our Aussie to utterly destroy their Aussie.

Jones has eviscerated Cheika by simply smiling and saying the odd cheeky comment. I never liked Cheika, but now you have to feel a little sorry for a guy who is losing his mind (and has anger issues).

I don't think the term 'whinging Poms' can ever be used by the Aussies again in any serious way. They certainly lead the way in this now, if in nothing else.

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