The EU Referendum - Thursday 23 June (with voting poll)

First topic message reminder :

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:I may have missed it on this thread but what are peoples thoughts on TTIP? Personally I think TTIP would be a a disaster for the EU, but can we fight it off?

Broadly negative but largely irrelevant as the UK would sign up to it in a flash with or without the EU.

Of course it's negative. It's a warning against TTIP and from a Nobel Prize winning economist. Strange that some here complain about the a lack of attention to 'financial experts' yet seem to brush aside the warnings of one on the worlds leading economists.

You say the UK will accept it in a flash, even if Brexit win. Why? I know Cameron will be quick to sell the UK to the highest bidder, but there are plenty of voices against TTIP, including the leader of the opposition. It would also be very doubtful that Cameron will be in power if Brexit do win.

I haven't got around to reading all the comments in reply to the TTIP article, very busy, but will once I get a break.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Ent wrote:All older are a bit racist in somewhat of a harmless way (until the referendum), they grew up in a less culturally diverse time.

All? Really? Again, why is this sort of prejudice acceptable? Has anyone actually taken the time to think that many of the older voters may actually be wiser and have lived through more than many of us? No?

No. I could equally say they all have mild dementia but that wouldn't be true would it.

Do you ever actually hang around with any elderly people? A lot of them are genuinely mildly racist/sexist etc it's a sign of the times they grew up in. Generally harmless (until they voted en mass in the referendum).

JuliusHMarx wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Turnout % of each age group in the #EURefResults:

18-24: 36%; 25-34: 58%; 35-44: 72%; 45-54: 75%; 55-64: 81%; 65+: 83%

via @SkyData

It's the turnout wot won it.

Most young people are warped by the media and are always going out of their way to do what they determine is "always right." I just don't understand the media's demonisation of certain people (Farage, Trump, recently Boris), unless it's Kanye West course. The older generation have been around a lot longer and have been humped in the rear by all and sundry, I'll listen to them over mouthy, rich-people wannabe's any day.

Yes - kids today - they're all mouthy rich-people wannabes. Warped by the media, unable to think for themselves etc. etc.
Dear oh dear, your statement says a lot more about you than it does about them.

Says the one dismissing all Leave voters as racist, xenophobic, bigoted, uneducated, etc. Talk about hypocrite, but I guess that sums up the loser campaign .

Alex_Germany wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Afro wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Afro wrote:I have to say that of the people I know who voted Leave, the younger ones like GSC have made an educated choice and that has to be respected.

But every single one from the older generation ( my family, wife's family, neighbours), without fail cited stopping immigration as being the reason for their choice.

And that is why the label of racist or xenophobic gets thrown about.

Do you think your family are racists/xenophobes?

I think they are smart enough to realise it's not PC to be open about it but scratch the surface and id say they are.

Your family are not open with you? Unfortunate, but fair enough. I can understand why you might think all those against immigration might be racist, although it's still shallow thinking.

Most "mild" racists don't think they are racist. I remember an estate agent in Brussels telling me to avoid one area as it's full of Asians. "I'm not racist, but sometimes they're not always very clean" she said.

I'm sure most people who voted Brexit are not racist. After all, a consequence of reducing EU immigration will be to increase immigration from the Middle East, Africa and Asia.

Oh, so the arguments on here are valid because many people don't really know they are racist? Your estate agent is a racist. Nothing mild about it.

Who said EU immigration is to be reduced? Some random voter?

Some of the reasoning on here .....

Munchkin wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Hero wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Hero wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:Some people love angry nativism.

Well Carswell said it before the referendum results were announced. He was clearing the ground, in the event of a Remain win, so that he could later launch another attack on Farage's leadership (whilst not having the moral courage to stand for leader himself).

And what happened? Oh yes, Leave won, thanks largely to Farage.

Because he appeals to xenophobes.

Name-calling and no counter-argument - the Remain campaign in a nutshell.

Who's come out and congratulated the Leave campaign since they won?

Le Pen and Trump. You can sugar coat it all you want, Leave won due to the following;

A protest against Cameron from the working class and uneducated that wasn't helped by the ineptitude of the Labour Party gathering support.
And those that blame foreigners for all their ills.

Just clarify for me - are you saying that one has to be working class or uneducated to "protest against David Cameron"? Also, do those who vote leave also fall within that category in your opinion? That or old age.

So far, many of those accusing Farage of xenophobia (I'm not a big fan but it is a ridiculous claim) are certainly showing vitriol towards other people groups of their choosing. There is a really distasteful phenomenon here where it is deemed acceptable to show extreme prejudice towards British people who have pride in their heritage and wish to reclaim their national sovereignty. They are branded as racists, far right elitists or any other names designed to silence their collective voices. Do folks really not see the irony here?

The working class, as well as the uneducated, which I sincerely hope you were not lumping together, also deserve a say in this, whether you agree with them or not. They are included in a democracy, after all.

I think it's fair to say that racists exists. And that far right elitists exist. And that many of those people also have pride their British heritage and wish to reclaim their national sovereignty. But they are still racists/far right elitists and we should fight against that with extreme prejudice.

There are also people who have pride their British heritage and wish to reclaim their national sovereignty who are neither racist not far right elitists. Which is fine, although I personally probably don't share much common ground with them politically.

Any racists would makw up a tiny proportion of the Brexit vote. They don't represent the vast majority. Get a grip and take the loss in good grace.

Did I ever suggest they made up more than a small proportion? I'm not sure why you feel you should twist what I am saying or put words in my mouth. I don't think the loss should be accepted meekly. Surely holding the Leave campaign to their promises is not a loss of grace.

I find your 'get a grip' statement to be patronising - can you point to a post of mine that indicates a lack of grace, as opposed to disappointment, fear over the future of the country, and a desire to keep standing up for what I believe to be right and best for the country?

No, you didn't, although I would suggest it is you trying to twist things by associating racists with the referendum result. It's bloody obvious what you're trying to do. The accusations of 'racists', 'xenophobes', have been prominent here before the result. It was, and is, pretty weak thinking.

Move on.

Sometimes people don't want to admit to what's bleedingly obvious.

Most of the older gen voted for Brexit out of a fear of immigration. That was the drum beaten loudest throughout the campaign. Farage and co knew that to win they had to play on those fears - and they did. To deny that he is a xenophobe is to deny reality; the 1930's poster said it all - that was really low and shows what a despicable character he is. Using the plight of vulnerable refugees fleeing death and destruction for political gain - total scumbag.

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Turnout % of each age group in the #EURefResults:

18-24: 36%; 25-34: 58%; 35-44: 72%; 45-54: 75%; 55-64: 81%; 65+: 83%

via @SkyData

It's the turnout wot won it.

Most young people are warped by the media and are always going out of their way to do what they determine is "always right." I just don't understand the media's demonisation of certain people (Farage, Trump, recently Boris), unless it's Kanye West course. The older generation have been around a lot longer and have been humped in the rear by all and sundry, I'll listen to them over mouthy, rich-people wannabe's any day.

For someone so sensitive you are certainly not above insulting people blindly and idiotically

See reply to Jules' hypocrite post. Do you two ever stop shooting yourself in the foot? 

mikey_dragon wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Turnout % of each age group in the #EURefResults:

18-24: 36%; 25-34: 58%; 35-44: 72%; 45-54: 75%; 55-64: 81%; 65+: 83%

via @SkyData

It's the turnout wot won it.

Most young people are warped by the media and are always going out of their way to do what they determine is "always right." I just don't understand the media's demonisation of certain people (Farage, Trump, recently Boris), unless it's Kanye West course. The older generation have been around a lot longer and have been humped in the rear by all and sundry, I'll listen to them over mouthy, rich-people wannabe's any day.

Yes - kids today - they're all mouthy rich-people wannabes. Warped by the media, unable to think for themselves etc. etc.
Dear oh dear, your statement says a lot more about you than it does about them.

Says the one dismissing all Leave voters as racist, xenophobic, bigoted, uneducated, etc. Talk about hypocrite, but I guess that sums up the loser campaign .

Quote one post of mine that remotely did that mikey - or stop making such childish comments.

emancipator wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Hero wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Hero wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:Some people love angry nativism.

Well Carswell said it before the referendum results were announced. He was clearing the ground, in the event of a Remain win, so that he could later launch another attack on Farage's leadership (whilst not having the moral courage to stand for leader himself).

And what happened? Oh yes, Leave won, thanks largely to Farage.

Because he appeals to xenophobes.

Name-calling and no counter-argument - the Remain campaign in a nutshell.

Who's come out and congratulated the Leave campaign since they won?

Le Pen and Trump. You can sugar coat it all you want, Leave won due to the following;

A protest against Cameron from the working class and uneducated that wasn't helped by the ineptitude of the Labour Party gathering support.
And those that blame foreigners for all their ills.

Just clarify for me - are you saying that one has to be working class or uneducated to "protest against David Cameron"? Also, do those who vote leave also fall within that category in your opinion? That or old age.

So far, many of those accusing Farage of xenophobia (I'm not a big fan but it is a ridiculous claim) are certainly showing vitriol towards other people groups of their choosing. There is a really distasteful phenomenon here where it is deemed acceptable to show extreme prejudice towards British people who have pride in their heritage and wish to reclaim their national sovereignty. They are branded as racists, far right elitists or any other names designed to silence their collective voices. Do folks really not see the irony here?

The working class, as well as the uneducated, which I sincerely hope you were not lumping together, also deserve a say in this, whether you agree with them or not. They are included in a democracy, after all.

I think it's fair to say that racists exists. And that far right elitists exist. And that many of those people also have pride their British heritage and wish to reclaim their national sovereignty. But they are still racists/far right elitists and we should fight against that with extreme prejudice.

There are also people who have pride their British heritage and wish to reclaim their national sovereignty who are neither racist not far right elitists. Which is fine, although I personally probably don't share much common ground with them politically.

Any racists would makw up a tiny proportion of the Brexit vote. They don't represent the vast majority. Get a grip and take the loss in good grace.

Did I ever suggest they made up more than a small proportion? I'm not sure why you feel you should twist what I am saying or put words in my mouth. I don't think the loss should be accepted meekly. Surely holding the Leave campaign to their promises is not a loss of grace.

I find your 'get a grip' statement to be patronising - can you point to a post of mine that indicates a lack of grace, as opposed to disappointment, fear over the future of the country, and a desire to keep standing up for what I believe to be right and best for the country?

No, you didn't, although I would suggest it is you trying to twist things by associating racists with the referendum result. It's bloody obvious what you're trying to do. The accusations of 'racists', 'xenophobes', have been prominent here before the result. It was, and is, pretty weak thinking.

Move on.

Sometimes people don't want to admit to what's bleedingly obvious.

Most of the older gen voted for Brexit out of a fear of immigration. That was the drum beaten loudest throughout the campaign. Farage and co knew that to win they had to play on those fears - and they did. To deny that he is a xenophobe is to deny reality; the 1930's poster said it all - that was really low and shows what a despicable character he is. Using the plight of vulnerable refugees fleeing death and destruction for political gain - total scumbag.

Yes, and it's bleedingly obvious you missed the point. Fear of immigration is not racism.

There's certainly a serious lack of respect given to either side. Need to stop pointing fingers at one another or perhaps it's time to take a break

No, it's great fun listening to the bigoted non racists.

Almost all of the politicians used people's fears on either side of the vote with wildly outlandish claims. Let us not assume that a) either side was whiter than white and b) that people cannot vote based on their own original thoughts and free will. Farage did not influence my decision and nor did he influence the decision of many of those who did vote to leave.

JuliusHMarx wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Turnout % of each age group in the #EURefResults:

18-24: 36%; 25-34: 58%; 35-44: 72%; 45-54: 75%; 55-64: 81%; 65+: 83%

via @SkyData

It's the turnout wot won it.

Most young people are warped by the media and are always going out of their way to do what they determine is "always right." I just don't understand the media's demonisation of certain people (Farage, Trump, recently Boris), unless it's Kanye West course. The older generation have been around a lot longer and have been humped in the rear by all and sundry, I'll listen to them over mouthy, rich-people wannabe's any day.

Yes - kids today - they're all mouthy rich-people wannabes. Warped by the media, unable to think for themselves etc. etc.
Dear oh dear, your statement says a lot more about you than it does about them.

Says the one dismissing all Leave voters as racist, xenophobic, bigoted, uneducated, etc. Talk about hypocrite, but I guess that sums up the loser campaign .

Quote one post of mine that remotely did that mikey - or making such childish comments.

I was referring to your Loser team Jules, you know the embarrassing Leave brigade who are continuing to embarrass themselves and their country after the referendum. You're on their team. But since you're being selective, you referred to 18-24 year olds as kids. You do know that the legal adult age for most purposes, in this instance voting in the UK is 18 right? Jeez... 
I was referring to the tree-huggers flooding social media every day. All of them mouthy, rich-people wannabe's having tantrums when people disagree with them. Now that's bigoted. Your statement "says more about you than them" is very hypocritical coming from a Leaver.

Munchkin wrote:No, it's great fun listening to the bigoted non racists.

And it's great fun being called a bigot, despite when asking for actual evidence of this, no-one can provide any.

Munchkin wrote:No, it's great fun listening to the bigoted non racists.

Good one.

temporary21 wrote:There's certainly a serious lack of respect given to either side. Need to stop pointing fingers at one another or perhaps it's time to take a break

What on here, or in general?

There isn't a winning and losing side, it's not a football match.

The U.K. has voted democratically to leave the eu, now it's time for the fall out.

Munchkin wrote:
Who said EU immigration is to be reduced? Some random voter?

Some of the reasoning on here .....

I thought a central plank of Brexit is to reduce our freedom to live and work where we choose?

Which of course can't be achieved without serious cost.

Everywhere if in honest ive seen people my age disown their parents over this. You know the people who raised them...

JuliusHMarx wrote:

Munchkin wrote:No, it's great fun listening to the bigoted non racists.

And it's great fun being called a bigot, despite when asking for actual evidence of this, no-one can provide any.

To be honest, Julius, I can't remember who said what, other than a liberal dollop of racist/xenophobe is being applied with a wide brush on the elderly electorate. Then we have the 'working class' being demonised along with the 'uneducated'. Yep, that's bigotry at its finest.

Ent wrote:There isn't a winning and losing side, it's not a football match.

The U.K. has voted democratically to leave the eu, now it's time for the fall out.

True. There's no fallout either then, depending on which 'team' you're on. Clearly leaving the EU is the apocolypse for Remain...

mikey_dragon wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Turnout % of each age group in the #EURefResults:

18-24: 36%; 25-34: 58%; 35-44: 72%; 45-54: 75%; 55-64: 81%; 65+: 83%

via @SkyData

It's the turnout wot won it.

Most young people are warped by the media and are always going out of their way to do what they determine is "always right." I just don't understand the media's demonisation of certain people (Farage, Trump, recently Boris), unless it's Kanye West course. The older generation have been around a lot longer and have been humped in the rear by all and sundry, I'll listen to them over mouthy, rich-people wannabe's any day.

Yes - kids today - they're all mouthy rich-people wannabes. Warped by the media, unable to think for themselves etc. etc.
Dear oh dear, your statement says a lot more about you than it does about them.

Says the one dismissing all Leave voters as racist, xenophobic, bigoted, uneducated, etc. Talk about hypocrite, but I guess that sums up the loser campaign .

Quote one post of mine that remotely did that mikey - or making such childish comments.

I was referring to your Loser team Jules, you know the embarrassing Leave brigade who are continuing to embarrass themselves and their country after the referendum. You're one of them. But since you're being selective, you referred to 18-24 year olds as kids. You do know that the legal adult age for most purposes, in this instance voting in the UK is 18 right? Jeez... 
I was referring to the tree-huggers flooding social media every day. All of them mouthy, rich-people wannabe's having tantrums when people disagree with them. Now that's bigoted. Your statement "says more about you than them" is very hypocritical coming from a Leaver.

What makes you say they are 'my team' mikey? Is it not possible to simply discuss my own posts directly with me? Which of my posts do you think has embarrassed myself? Perhaps quote it and we can discuss further.
'Kids' - as I'm sure you are aware, was just an expression. It does not define a particular age group. I refer to anyone in roughly the next generation to myself (anyone under 30, say) as kids.

Ent wrote:There isn't a winning and losing side, it's not a football match.

The losing side is mostly the UK, but also Europe and most of the World.

Financially - about $2 trillion wiped off shares around the world. The UK is 10% poorer than it would be otherwise (admittedly less than I expected - I assume the markets are counting on a Norway style agreement). The losing side is all the people who will lose their jobs.

Alex_Germany wrote:

Munchkin wrote:
Who said EU immigration is to be reduced? Some random voter?

Some of the reasoning on here .....

I thought a central plank of Brexit is to reduce our freedom to live and work where we choose?

Which of course can't be achieved without serious cost.

Then you thought wrong.

Munchkin wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:

Munchkin wrote:No, it's great fun listening to the bigoted non racists.

And it's great fun being called a bigot, despite when asking for actual evidence of this, no-one can provide any.

To be honest, Julius, I can't remember who said what, other than a liberal dollop of racist/xenophobe is being applied with a wide brush on the elderly electorate. Then we have the 'working class' being demonised along with the 'uneducated'. Yep, that's bigotry at its finest.

Fair enough - I think you'll find you can exclude me from that category then.

mikey_dragon wrote:

Ent wrote:There isn't a winning and losing side, it's not a football match.

The U.K. has voted democratically to leave the eu, now it's time for the fall out.

True. There's no fallout either then, depending on which 'team' you're on. Clearly leaving the EU is the apocolypse for Remain...

There is fallout, that's a fact. Sterling devalued, markets down, prime minister has quit, Labour Party in chaos etc

It's the same for everyone, we all either win or lose. To me it looks like losing but we will see.

I see the port talbot plant buyouts have all distanced themselves and tata are talking about liquidising the plant. Great stuff, what 11000 good jobs there?

Alex_Germany wrote:

Ent wrote:There isn't a winning and losing side, it's not a football match.

The losing side is mostly the UK, but also Europe and most of the World.

Financially - about $2 trillion wiped off shares around the world. The UK is 10% poorer than it would be otherwise (admittedly less than I expected - I assume the markets are counting on a Norway style agreement). The losing side is all the people who will lose their jobs.

That's not a "side" that's everyone in the uk effected the same (broadly speaking).

temporary21 wrote:Everywhere if in honest ive seen people my age disown their parents over this.  You know the people who raised them...

Christ, and I thought high school and uni friends unfriending me on Facebook as soon as they believed I had voted out was bad... I've only ever publically commented on the referendum, once on Friday morning, in response to the reaction on social media. My uneducated views didn't agree with there's, so they likely wanted me dead. 

I can honestly say i expected Remain to edge it, I was willing to accept that and move on. I certainly would not have reciprocated in the way they have.

Alex_Germany wrote:

Ent wrote:There isn't a winning and losing side, it's not a football match.

The losing side is mostly the UK, but also Europe and most of the World.

Financially - about $2 trillion wiped off shares around the world.

Just a temporary blip in a month or twos time the world will have returned to its axis. and currencies/shares etc will return to a demand/supply value.

mikey_dragon wrote:

temporary21 wrote:Everywhere if in honest ive seen people my age disown their parents over this.  You know the people who raised them...

Christ, and I thought high school and uni friends unfriending me on Facebook as soon as they believed I had voted out was bad... I've only ever publically commented on the referendum, once on Friday morning, in response to the reaction on social media. My uneducated views didn't agree with there's, so they likely wanted me dead. 

I can honestly say i expected Remain to edge it, I was willing to accept that and move on. I certainly would not have reciprocated in the way they have.

Rightly or wrongly they think you and the other leave voters have completely Frak up the country. I'm sure when the dust settles they'll be your friend again.

JuliusHMarx wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:

Munchkin wrote:No, it's great fun listening to the bigoted non racists.

And it's great fun being called a bigot, despite when asking for actual evidence of this, no-one can provide any.

To be honest, Julius, I can't remember who said what, other than a liberal dollop of racist/xenophobe is being applied with a wide brush on the elderly electorate. Then we have the 'working class' being demonised along with the 'uneducated'. Yep, that's bigotry at its finest.

Fair enough - I think you'll find you can exclude me from that category then.

Good

Well I think this whole thing came from relating the leave vote to "angry nativism" which was if I'm honest a below the belt shot.

If you keep dismissing your opposition you're not holding them to account. You're misrepresenting them and proving they were correct about what they call project fear

Why give them that?

Project fear was the leave campaign, regardless of who coined the nickname.

How can we hold any of them to account exactly, the major political parties all backed remain.

JuliusHMarx wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Turnout % of each age group in the #EURefResults:

18-24: 36%; 25-34: 58%; 35-44: 72%; 45-54: 75%; 55-64: 81%; 65+: 83%

via @SkyData

It's the turnout wot won it.

Most young people are warped by the media and are always going out of their way to do what they determine is "always right." I just don't understand the media's demonisation of certain people (Farage, Trump, recently Boris), unless it's Kanye West course. The older generation have been around a lot longer and have been humped in the rear by all and sundry, I'll listen to them over mouthy, rich-people wannabe's any day.

Yes - kids today - they're all mouthy rich-people wannabes. Warped by the media, unable to think for themselves etc. etc.
Dear oh dear, your statement says a lot more about you than it does about them.

Says the one dismissing all Leave voters as racist, xenophobic, bigoted, uneducated, etc. Talk about hypocrite, but I guess that sums up the loser campaign .

Quote one post of mine that remotely did that mikey - or making such childish comments.

I was referring to your Loser team Jules, you know the embarrassing Leave brigade who are continuing to embarrass themselves and their country after the referendum. You're one of them. But since you're being selective, you referred to 18-24 year olds as kids. You do know that the legal adult age for most purposes, in this instance voting in the UK is 18 right? Jeez... 
I was referring to the tree-huggers flooding social media every day. All of them mouthy, rich-people wannabe's having tantrums when people disagree with them. Now that's bigoted. Your statement "says more about you than them" is very hypocritical coming from a Leaver.

What makes you say they are 'my team' mikey? Is it not possible to simply discuss my own posts directly with me? Which of my posts do you think has embarrassed myself? Perhaps quote it and we can discuss further.
'Kids' - as I'm sure you are aware, was just an expression. It does not define a particular age group. I refer to anyone in roughly the next generation to myself (anyone under 30, say) as kids.

Are you or are you not in team Remain? And yes we can refer to them as team Remain despite them not being a football team. I'm sure I could discuss your posts directly with you, no problem. However I do think a lot of it would be us going around in circles, like this article. 

I suggest you stop referring to anyone under 30 as kids. Me personally, I would find that highly offensive. Do you have any idea how hard us 'kids' have to work these days just to be able to get career stability and afford to live? 

Also I've skimmed over the posts a few times and I mistook you for Hero. Your posts seem very similar post-Brexit. I know you're deeply offended by this mistake, so I apologise .

mikey_dragon wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Turnout % of each age group in the #EURefResults:

18-24: 36%; 25-34: 58%; 35-44: 72%; 45-54: 75%; 55-64: 81%; 65+: 83%

via @SkyData

It's the turnout wot won it.

Most young people are warped by the media and are always going out of their way to do what they determine is "always right." I just don't understand the media's demonisation of certain people (Farage, Trump, recently Boris), unless it's Kanye West course. The older generation have been around a lot longer and have been humped in the rear by all and sundry, I'll listen to them over mouthy, rich-people wannabe's any day.

Yes - kids today - they're all mouthy rich-people wannabes. Warped by the media, unable to think for themselves etc. etc.
Dear oh dear, your statement says a lot more about you than it does about them.

Says the one dismissing all Leave voters as racist, xenophobic, bigoted, uneducated, etc. Talk about hypocrite, but I guess that sums up the loser campaign .

Quote one post of mine that remotely did that mikey - or making such childish comments.

I was referring to your Loser team Jules, you know the embarrassing Leave brigade who are continuing to embarrass themselves and their country after the referendum. You're one of them. But since you're being selective, you referred to 18-24 year olds as kids. You do know that the legal adult age for most purposes, in this instance voting in the UK is 18 right? Jeez... 
I was referring to the tree-huggers flooding social media every day. All of them mouthy, rich-people wannabe's having tantrums when people disagree with them. Now that's bigoted. Your statement "says more about you than them" is very hypocritical coming from a Leaver.

What makes you say they are 'my team' mikey? Is it not possible to simply discuss my own posts directly with me? Which of my posts do you think has embarrassed myself? Perhaps quote it and we can discuss further.
'Kids' - as I'm sure you are aware, was just an expression. It does not define a particular age group. I refer to anyone in roughly the next generation to myself (anyone under 30, say) as kids.

Are you or are you not in team Remain? And yes we can refer to them as team Remain despite them not being a football team. I'm sure I could discuss your posts directly with you, no problem. However I do think a lot of it would be us going around in circles, like this article. 

I suggest you stop referring to anyone under 30 as kids. Me personally, I would find that highly offensive. Do you have any idea how hard us 'kids' have to work these days just to be able to get career stability and afford to live? 

Also I've skimmed over the posts a few times and I mistook you for Hero. Your posts seem very similar post-Brexit. I know you're deeply offended by this mistake, so I apologise .

Going to be harder now isn't it?

Ent wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

temporary21 wrote:Everywhere if in honest ive seen people my age disown their parents over this.  You know the people who raised them...

Christ, and I thought high school and uni friends unfriending me on Facebook as soon as they believed I had voted out was bad... I've only ever publically commented on the referendum, once on Friday morning, in response to the reaction on social media. My uneducated views didn't agree with there's, so they likely wanted me dead. 

I can honestly say i expected Remain to edge it, I was willing to accept that and move on. I certainly would not have reciprocated in the way they have.

Rightly or wrongly they think you and the other leave voters have completely Frak up the country. I'm sure when the dust settles they'll be your friend again.

Nah I'm alright mate. Bigot's are the worst kind of people in my eyes. Social media is full of them, if I didn't use it to keep in touch with family on the other side of the world I'd likely pack it in.

Then prove it. Let's not spread fear about people of leave and the country just to blow off steam.

We've gotta be the bigger men/women here or well all be headless chickens

Most young people are warped by the media and are always going out of their way to do what they determine is "always right." I just don't understand the media's demonisation of certain people (Farage, Trump, recently Boris), unless it's Kanye West course. The older generation have been around a lot longer and have been humped in the rear by all and sundry, I'll listen to them over mouthy, rich-people wannabe's any day.

Just don't call us kids.

You are daft.

Ent 

Remains to be seen, remains . Either way, I think I've got through more difficult times in the past.

Ent wrote:

Most young people are warped by the media and are always going out of their way to do what they determine is "always right." I just don't understand the media's demonisation of certain people (Farage, Trump, recently Boris), unless it's Kanye West course. The older generation have been around a lot longer and have been humped in the rear by all and sundry, I'll listen to them over mouthy, rich-people wannabe's any day.

Just don't call us kids.

You are daft.

No. name calling either.

temporary21 wrote:Well I think this whole thing came from relating the leave vote to "angry nativism" which was if I'm honest a below the belt shot.

If you keep dismissing your opposition you're not holding them to account. You're misrepresenting them and proving they were correct about what they call project fear

Why give them that?

I think the "angry nativism" accusation was from the UKIP MP to the UKIP leader. And a lot* of people responded in a positive way to Farage's proclamations. Not that all his proclamations were of that variety. But the people that liked the ones that were - I am quite dismissive of them.

* An undefined number somewhere between 1 and 17 million

I don't get it. The quoted post doesn't use that word

Well it inflamed the situation because it was said without any context to make sure you wernt referring to anyone here

It's just not worth it really

It's not me you need to convince anyway. I'm sure you didn't want it to be taken that way but it was throwaway

I'm gonna head to bed. It would probably help is all if we got some shut eye

aucklandlaurie wrote:

Ent wrote:

Most young people are warped by the media and are always going out of their way to do what they determine is "always right." I just don't understand the media's demonisation of certain people (Farage, Trump, recently Boris), unless it's Kanye West course. The older generation have been around a lot longer and have been humped in the rear by all and sundry, I'll listen to them over mouthy, rich-people wannabe's any day.

Just don't call us kids.

You are daft.

No. name calling either.

I'm not calling you names, I'm commenting on your intelligence.

mikey_dragon wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Turnout % of each age group in the #EURefResults:

18-24: 36%; 25-34: 58%; 35-44: 72%; 45-54: 75%; 55-64: 81%; 65+: 83%

via @SkyData

It's the turnout wot won it.

Most young people are warped by the media and are always going out of their way to do what they determine is "always right." I just don't understand the media's demonisation of certain people (Farage, Trump, recently Boris), unless it's Kanye West course. The older generation have been around a lot longer and have been humped in the rear by all and sundry, I'll listen to them over mouthy, rich-people wannabe's any day.

Yes - kids today - they're all mouthy rich-people wannabes. Warped by the media, unable to think for themselves etc. etc.
Dear oh dear, your statement says a lot more about you than it does about them.

Says the one dismissing all Leave voters as racist, xenophobic, bigoted, uneducated, etc. Talk about hypocrite, but I guess that sums up the loser campaign .

Quote one post of mine that remotely did that mikey - or making such childish comments.

I was referring to your Loser team Jules, you know the embarrassing Leave brigade who are continuing to embarrass themselves and their country after the referendum. You're one of them. But since you're being selective, you referred to 18-24 year olds as kids. You do know that the legal adult age for most purposes, in this instance voting in the UK is 18 right? Jeez... 
I was referring to the tree-huggers flooding social media every day. All of them mouthy, rich-people wannabe's having tantrums when people disagree with them. Now that's bigoted. Your statement "says more about you than them" is very hypocritical coming from a Leaver.

What makes you say they are 'my team' mikey? Is it not possible to simply discuss my own posts directly with me? Which of my posts do you think has embarrassed myself? Perhaps quote it and we can discuss further.
'Kids' - as I'm sure you are aware, was just an expression. It does not define a particular age group. I refer to anyone in roughly the next generation to myself (anyone under 30, say) as kids.

Are you or are you not in team Remain? And yes we can refer to them as team Remain despite them not being a football team. I'm sure I could discuss your posts directly with you, no problem. However I do think a lot of it would be us going around in circles, like this article. 

I suggest you stop referring to anyone under 30 as kids. Me personally, I would find that highly offensive. Do you have any idea how hard us 'kids' have to work these days just to be able to get career stability and afford to live? 

Also I've skimmed over the posts a few times and I mistook you for Hero. Your posts seem very similar post-Brexit. I know you're deeply offended by this mistake, so I apologise .

I don't mean anything derogatory by 'kids'. I have friends your age, and I call them 'kids' and they call me an 'old fart'. I'm 50 and career stability while having to support a family is no easier - I think we all have to work hard.

I'm not in team Remain. I voted to Remain.

We don't need another Hero

Ent wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:

Ent wrote:

Most young people are warped by the media and are always going out of their way to do what they determine is "always right." I just don't understand the media's demonisation of certain people (Farage, Trump, recently Boris), unless it's Kanye West course. The older generation have been around a lot longer and have been humped in the rear by all and sundry, I'll listen to them over mouthy, rich-people wannabe's any day.

Just don't call us kids.

You are daft.

No. name calling either.

I'm not calling you names, I'm commenting on your intelligence.

Then you should say something like "your intelligence is daft", whereas "You are daft" is calling someone daft.

Julius don't call us kids but we are all wannabes warped by the media. Also we should listen to the older generation because they've been around longer.

Just madness.

aucklandlaurie wrote:

Ent wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:

Ent wrote:

Most young people are warped by the media and are always going out of their way to do what they determine is "always right." I just don't understand the media's demonisation of certain people (Farage, Trump, recently Boris), unless it's Kanye West course. The older generation have been around a lot longer and have been humped in the rear by all and sundry, I'll listen to them over mouthy, rich-people wannabe's any day.

Just don't call us kids.

You are daft.

No. name calling either.

I'm not calling you names, I'm commenting on your intelligence.

Then you should say something like "your intelligence is daft", whereas "You are daft" is calling someone daft.

No, just no. How can someone's intelligence be daft?

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Why is it acceptable to insinuate that the vast majority of leave voters or British patriots are racist...

It isn't. I haven't. If you think I have, please quote the post, so I can clarify what I meant.

Nor have I claimed that you have, although many of those on the Remain side unfortunately seem very keen to label Leave voters as racists or any other derogatory term that they can think of.

I'd settle for saying that a lot of the leave voters are misguided and have no idea what they have actually voted for. Anyway - as long as the government got a good kicking eh?

The same could also be said for Remain voters, and certainly in my circles many of the people who voted remain did so because "they hadn't looked into it enough".

Oh yeah. The biggest idiots in all of this are the conservative government who agreed to the vote in the first place then didn't work hard enough to educate the voters of any actual facts, because I guess they assumed they'd win anyway, out of touch bunch of .....

At the same time all of the most popular newspapers are pumping out the same eurosceptic BS they have for years.

We did get an official looking document that appeared to cover the 'facts' of course, only they were false and it was from the leave campaign.. On the subject of which who gave Farage so much air time. Its not like he's elected. It's not like there is anyone to hold him responsible for talking BS for a couple of months. It's not like he's actually an expert on how the EU works either.

I voted remain because I didn't like the idea of the Boris Johnsons, or the Eton mob, (or quite frankly that old reactionary out of touch activist from the labour party) being in power without at least someone looking over their shoulder from time to time. But when I started actually looking at the info - which was hard to find - it seemed pretty clear that leaving was a stupid idea.

At the same time all of this really has helped to shine a light around some major f**king issues that are making life tough for a lot of people. I get that, well I don't truly tbh but I am getting a glimpse of it. But I don't think leaving the EU are going to sort those issues. I don't think not being part of the decision making process in Europe is going to help. I don't think not having euro convergence funding for poor regions is going to help. I don't think missing out on EU farming subsidies are going to help. And I don't think having a more right wing government in power is going to help either.

I see that ''the older generation'' are getting some flak here and elsewhere for voting Out. I feel it's fair to emphasise that if they hadn't voted the way they did in 1975, Britain wouldn't have been In for the last forty years anyway.

I strongly suspect a major reason why that generation have just voted the way they did is that what they signed up to originally became something very different.

Ent wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:

Ent wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:

Ent wrote:

Most young people are warped by the media and are always going out of their way to do what they determine is "always right." I just don't understand the media's demonisation of certain people (Farage, Trump, recently Boris), unless it's Kanye West course. The older generation have been around a lot longer and have been humped in the rear by all and sundry, I'll listen to them over mouthy, rich-people wannabe's any day.

Just don't call us kids.

You are daft.

No. name calling either.

I'm not calling you names, I'm commenting on your intelligence.

Then you should say something like "your intelligence is daft", whereas "You are daft" is calling someone daft.

No, just no. How can someone's intelligence be daft?

Don't ask me I'm not the one commenting on others intelligence

This referendum has been a mess. For better or worse, we are out now. The economic hit in the short term was a given, the cost of buying back soveriegnty.

What is not good, is the reaction of Johnson, Farage and co. Backtracking over much of their selling points mere hours after the result. Having campaigned so voriferacly to leave, now they are telling there isnt a rush actually, because, well there is no plan B.

We are going to have play this one on the fly, and I have no more confidence in the people going to be leading this than I would in the suits in the E.U. Farage and Johnson are headline grabbers, not problem solvers. We need problem solvers now.

This has not been well thought out.