Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[beninho]

First topic message reminder :

Having concerns about EU immigration does not make you a far right nutter or xenophobe. Mclaren, what is your knowledge on EU immigration, what dealings do you have with it? Can you see why people may have concerns about it?

Unless your concerns about how we can offer a more humane immigration system then you are xenophobe.  If you are worried about the geographical location of where someone popped out of a uterus then you are not thinking rationally.

And no, I cannot see why anyone would have any issue with the current levels of immigration to/from the UK.  Unless as I said above you are worried about how some people coming here are treated.

Do you not agree that an expanding population due to EU immigration, would lead to an extra burden on the NHS, housing, benefit and other public services aswell as the rise in rents?

Do you think that EU immigration, where people get fake payslips in order to claim benefits, working tax credits child tax credits and housing assistance? Or people that work minimal hours and tdo not pay any tax or nino who then can claim housing and benefit assistance? Or people that illegally overstay in the country, in order to achieve a loophole and gain housing or benefit assistance.

All of these are ongoing issues, though you did not answer my question in the first place.

[super_realist]

Mac, do you know the "rules of engagement" for when a taser is used? It is the absolute last resort. The person it is aimed at is warned repeatedly and the situation in which it is deployed is when members of the public or police are in danger.

Therefore, if you ignore the repeated warnings that the taser is to be fired, yes, you'd have to be fairly idiotic to press on with your behaviour and court the police to fire.
You cannot have escaped ever seeing someone being tasered on tv, repeated warnings should be sufficient to mean you are aware what is about to happen and you should take steps to ensure they don't deploy, i.e. surrender and assuming a position which shows this.

[McLaren]

Super

I once got arrested and I can tell you it is a massively frustrating scenario. You are confronted by some moronic cops who can't follow reason and see even a slight questioning as a threatening situation. I asked for some basic info about what was going on and the cops put me in cuffs claiming I had become difficult.

It is easy for me to understand how quickly things with police officers can escalate as they are usually too stupid to keep things under control.

[super_realist]

Well you should keep calm Mac. What situation have you ever been in in which losing your cool ever helped?

[beninho]

Its sad that someone has died due to the actions of the police. But without the full story its way to early to pass mich comment.

[McLaren]

Well you should keep calm Mac. What situation have you ever been in in which losing your cool ever helped?

You are correct, but easier said than done.

[super_realist]

What were you arrested for?

[McLaren]

It was discussed on here or the old bbc site a few years ago. It didn't come to anything luckily.

[navyblueshorts]

It was discussed on here or the old bbc site a few years ago.  It didn't come to anything luckily.

Fancy answering the question??

[I'm never wrong]

Fancy answering the question??

He doesn't Navy. I've asked a question twice re Dalian Atkinson, but he has ignored me on both occasions. I must be one of the people he doesn't respect.

[McLaren]

What about my question Mac? Who said the Police killed Atkinson?

I didn't answer this because we have no idea what happened yet. As was already noted.

Doesn't mean you can't open your tiny mind and imagine how you would feel if the cops did kill.


Ask more interesting questions and I might be tempted to answer them.

[I'm never wrong]

This your quote, directly relating to the Atkinson death.

We should all care that our police force killed someone.  How does that not bother you?

So you are directly implying that the police killed him. That is what I am taking you to task about. As you said, we don't know yet, so you shouldn't have made that comment.

[super_realist]

Mac, you seem to be asserting that Atkinson was killed. He wasn't killed, he died. To say the police killed him is inferring intent.

The whole intention of a taser is to immobilise without harm, any death occurring as a result is most likely down to medical issues pertaining to the stiff. Nothing to do with the police, the taser or the rules in which they are permitted to use it, just an unfortunate incident, just as you might have a reaction to the anaesthetic whilst in for a routine operation.

Unforeseen circumstances and ones which the police cannot be held responsible for.

The police have a hard enough job as it is mac, without you inferring that someone has been killed by the police, rather than dying as a result of an event. They are so far apart from one another. I would have thought that someone as keen as you on evidence would sit back and at the very least consider the possibilities of what has gone on, rather than lead the evidence and insinuate the police are at fault here.

[McLaren]

I was merely asking super if police killings bothered him.  (This is a valid question without worrying about specific incidents)

INW

If you want to know what happened get a Frak newspaper, don't waste your time harassing me to come up with the facts. How the Frak should I know what happened.  Get a life.

[McLaren]

I would have thought that someone as keen as you on evidence would sit back and at the very least consider the possibilities of what has gone on, rather than lead the evidence and insinuate the police are at fault here.

Not when it comes to the pigs. I really couldn't care less if they have a poor reputation, they can fix it themselves.

[super_realist]

No, it isn't a valid question when we have been talking about ONE specific incident. Your inference is that Atkinson was killed by the police, meaning intention.

[I'm never wrong]

No need to get snotty when someone picks you up on a mistake you made Mac. Touchy today aren't we?

[super_realist]

I would have thought that someone as keen as you on evidence would sit back and at the very least consider the possibilities of what has gone on, rather than lead the evidence and insinuate the police are at fault here.

Not when it comes to the pigs.  I really couldn't care less if they have a poor reputation, they can fix it themselves.

How are they supposed to fix a reputation when people like you are going around inferring that they are killing people in this country. What a plank.

[McLaren]

super

Really? Have we finally found the one cause you care about in fair portrayal of the police?


INW

Here is what I said

We should all care that our police force killed someone.  How does that not bother you?

What mistake? The actions of the police resulted in his death. Whether or not he had a kidney/heart problem. If you go about zapping folk with tasers there will be some deaths. I assume the cops are ok with this reality?

[beninho]

All we appear to know is that he died due to police actions. Were they justified, we dont know. You like to hope so, but we cant say yet. Tasers are generally safe but have been involved in past deaths when used by the police, so you cannot say they are not going to cause a problem. Whats happened is in the past and will be fully investigated, hopefully.

Ive nothing against the police at all, my sister and her husband both in the force.

[I'm never wrong]

Mac. I am going to play Devils Advocate here and suggest something else. He was pronounced dead in the ambulance. Who's to say something happened in the ambulance that caused his death? Unlikely I know but it is a possibility.

[McLaren]

Hmm lets see, morons with tasers or the paramedics decided to murder him? I will let you decide.

[I'm never wrong]

Shows who has the closed mind

[MustPuttBetter]

Not when it comes to the pigs.  I really couldn't care less if they have a poor reputation, they can fix it themselves.

The pigs???!
Oh you're one of those

[super_realist]

super

Really?  Have we finally found the one cause you care about in fair portrayal of the police?


INW

Here is what I said

We should all care that our police force killed someone.  How does that not bother you?

What mistake?  The actions of the police resulted in his death.  Whether or not he had a kidney/heart problem.  If you go about zapping folk with tasers there will be some deaths.  I assume the cops are ok with this reality?

I'm not particular passionate about the police, but I'm not about to jump to childish conclusions like you are about them, nor am I such a tw@tt that I would refer to them as "pigs". How old are you?

You can't hold back on something like tasering, just because statistically a miniscule amount of people could die from it.
THat's like banning all appendix removals because a miniscule people will die on the operating table or banning swimming pools because occasionally someone might drown.

Sometimes Mac, your arguments are straight out of a secondary school debating chamber.

If the tasering was a result of Atkinsons behaviour then it wasn't the police act which resulted in his death, it was Atkinsons refusal to heed the warning about the taser being fired which led to it as there would have been deemed no other safe way to resolve the situation. The police aren't "going about zapping folk" I've already said it is very rare that these are deployed and there is very strict warnings and processes involved. You make it sound like it's done on a whim.

[westisbest]

Not sure if this was anyone but a washed up footballer that it would be getting discussed, tragic, but does anyone actually care? I don't.

As a Villa fan I do.
Was a good player and seemed like a real character.

Very sad news indeed. That goal against Wimbledon will always stand out.

Himself and Saunders had a good partnership up front.

Are all footballers washed up when they retire super realist.

[super_realist]

I think it's well documented that Atkinson had a pretty big slide following his career, whilst an altercation with the police requiring a taser seems to back that up.

[JAS]

Dear me...didn't take this debate long to get polarised.

So Mac, if you're out on a night out minding your own business and a couple of Neds corner you, they're telling you they're going to beat you to a pulp because they don't like you, lets also say they're high on coke or crack. Just as the first blows are about to rain in there's a shout and it's a police officer saying "stop". The Neds then go to turn on the officer to beat him to a pulp before they come back to you. The officer warms them he has a taser and will use it if they don't back off. Are you saying you would suggest to the officer not to use the taser on the Neds as it could seriously  or even fatally injure them???

[westisbest]

I think it's well documented that Atkinson had a pretty big slide following his career, whilst an altercation with the police requiring a taser seems to back that up.

Bit early to say that, you dont know the facts

[pedro]

Some of you (mac in particular) talk about "the police" like it's some kind of mass that moves around, like cyborgs. It's actually real people behind the uniform, and as far as I know there's no conspiracy to be deliberate a-holes, did you know that mac?

[McLaren]

Pedro

"no conspiracy to be deliberate a-holes, did you know that mac?"

I am not sure it is deliberate but in most of my interactions with the police they have managed to be a-holes.

[navyblueshorts]

I would have thought that someone as keen as you on evidence would sit back and at the very least consider the possibilities of what has gone on, rather than lead the evidence and insinuate the police are at fault here.

Not when it comes to the pigs.  I really couldn't care less if they have a poor reputation, they can fix it themselves.

Yeah! Right on! You sound like 'Rick' from the 'Young Ones'. Pathetic.

[JAS]

Some of you (mac in particular) talk about "the police" like it's some kind of mass that moves around, like cyborgs. It's actually real people behind the uniform, and as far as I know there's no conspiracy to be deliberate a-holes, did you know that mac?

Yep, and the thing is, their job is now harder than ever with the lack of respect, wanton lawlessness and compensation culture that now pervades our society. They are held under tighter scrutiny than almost any other public official and have very clear guidelines and processes to follow.

We're all too quick to jump to criticism when professionals get something wrong, not that I'm saying that the police got anything wrong in the Atkinson situation, we simply don't know the full story there and we're unlikely to until any investigation is completed. Yes the police unfortunately can get things badly wrong too (e.g. Hillsborough). The fact is nobody is perfect, we all make mistakes but harbouring a deep seated resentment over an isolated incident and tarring a whole profession with the same brush over it is quite frankly odd. Are you sure there wasn't more too it than what you've erstwhile admitted Mac??

[McLaren]

Navy, on reflection it does sound pretty sad. :erm:

[Davie]

Sometimes mac comes across as incredibly stupid; and sometimes it is a deviousness that almost defies belief.

I will address a question directly to Mac ...

Do you regularly refer to the police as pigs?

[JAS]

Pedro

"no conspiracy to be deliberate a-holes, did you know that mac?"

I am not sure it is deliberate but in most of my interactions with the police they have managed to be a-holes.

Well to be honest Mac, given your posting style on here that doesn't surprise me. Over a long period of time I've been stopped for several driving offences (no not snap hooks!!). I've been let off for accidentally going through a red light, I've also been given just a fixed penalty and 3 points for clocking an average of 98.65mph on a stretch of the M5. How you engage with them pretty much decides your fate. Contest anything or don't show regret, humility etc and they'll let you have it with both barrels.

[McLaren]

Do you regularly refer to the police as pigs?

Not regularly no, but I can't say that I have never used the term.

[pedro]

Pedro

"no conspiracy to be deliberate a-holes, did you know that mac?"

I am not sure it is deliberate but in most of my interactions with the police they have managed to be a-holes.

In our enlightened society I'm surprised that a police academy handbook describing how to be an a-hole hasn't surfaced yet.

[raycastleunited]

I read reports this morning that Atkinson was tasered four or five times, even when he was on the ground, and police continued to kick him while he was lying on the ground being tasered.

Now it is too early to judge, we don't know what prompted this, but things clearly got out of hand and the actions of the police appear heavy handed. I don't think it's harsh to say the police killed Atkinson, whether or not he contributed to his own death.

[super_realist]

Sounds like the sort of story that has grown arms and legs. I very much doubt that version. Sounds like the sort of thing Mac would come out with to have a dig at the pigs, I mean Police.

[McLaren]

From bbc news site

"Neighbour Paula Quinn, who lives in a first-floor flat near Atkinson's father's house in Meadow Close said she saw officers shouting and kicking him before the Taser was deployed several times."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-37092388

But as we know eye witness accounts can be extremely inaccurate.

[super_realist]

Absolutely Mac, I remember when that school pupil got stabbed to death in Aberdeen, and all sorts of stories were coming out which turned out to be BS.

[westisbest]

Heard also that Atkinson was kicked a few times while on the ground.
More will come to light I hop over the coming days, weeks.

[McLaren]

Super

Was that the fight over a biscuit?



On a semi related note do you enjoy the butterie (buttery)?

[MontysMerkin]

Someone dropped a ha'penny and a riot ensued...

[super_realist]

No Mac, I'm not a fan of the Rowie.

Monty, If a coin is dropped in Aberdeen, it hits the dropper in the back of the head.

[pedro]

Heard also that Atkinson was kicked a few times while on the ground.

Todays Villa players would call that 'Training Camp'.

[JAS]

No Mac, I'm not a fan of the Rowie.

Monty, If a coin is dropped in Aberdeen, it hits the dropper in the back of the head.

You know thats how copper wire was invented, 2 Jocks fighting over a dropped coin.

[Yadsendew]

Pedro

"no conspiracy to be deliberate a-holes, did you know that mac?"

I am not sure it is deliberate but in most of my interactions with the police they have managed to be a-holes.

Well to be honest Mac, given your posting style on here that doesn't surprise me. Over a long period of time I've been stopped for several driving offences (no not snap hooks!!). I've been let off for accidentally going through a red light, I've also been given just a fixed penalty and 3 points for clocking an average of 98.65mph on a stretch of the M5. How you engage with them pretty much decides your fate. Contest anything or don't show regret, humility etc and they'll let you have it with both barrels.

Spot on - because they're human not porcine.

[McLaren]

Have a look at #TrumpExplainsMoviePlots.

Pretty funny. https://twitter.com/hashtag/trumpexplainsmovieplots?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Ehashtag

[McLaren]

BBC interview about islamophobia interupted by islamophobia.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/37109216


But what I find interesting is the guys response.

We're losing our right to freedom of expression. We are. We're being told to be politically correct when we don't want to be politically correct.

Terrible sentiment but I almost admire this guys honesty.  Rarely do those bemoaning political correctness have the guts to admit that actually they want the right to be as bigoted or racist as they would like to be.

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