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The EU Referendum - Thursday 23 June (with voting poll)

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Post by Nico the gman on Thu Jun 30, 2016 10:14 pm

First topic message reminder :

Munchkin wrote:
Nico the gman wrote:Whether people like it or not the country voted to leave the EU and I don't think there's a cat in hells chance of a 2nd Referendum, those who did fail to vote and wanted to remain have in my opinion no argument.

I don't think a 2nd referendum will happen. I do think a 2nd referendum would vote Remain, even if the exact same voters come out.
Quite possibly.

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Post by wayne on Wed Jul 13, 2016 7:50 pm

Munchkin wrote:Great speech from May, strong on social justice and social welfare. Most definitely a One Nation Conservative. A speech that steals the thunder from anything Corbyn has to say. Hopefully she is true to her word.
Munchkin, as a Labour supporter of many years, I was very impressed with May's speech, the only difference is that I remember the Thatcher speech when she first entered Downing St, and quoted the St. Francis speech, and that turned out to be the biggest lie of the 20th Century.

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Post by GSC on Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:03 pm

Suspect theres an element in opportunism in that with the current state of Labour.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:06 pm

wayne wrote:
Munchkin wrote:Great speech from May, strong on social justice and social welfare. Most definitely a One Nation Conservative. A speech that steals the thunder from anything Corbyn has to say. Hopefully she is true to her word.
Munchkin, as a Labour supporter of many years, I was very impressed with May's speech, the only difference is that I remember the Thatcher speech when she first entered Downing St, and quoted the St. Francis speech, and that turned out to be the biggest lie of the 20th Century.

Why go back that far ??

"We are all in it together"

"The big society"..

Osborne sacked....Not wanted apparently as he's too closely wedded to austerity...

Big plus mark there for May..

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Post by Guest on Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:07 pm

wayne wrote:
Munchkin wrote:Great speech from May, strong on social justice and social welfare. Most definitely a One Nation Conservative. A speech that steals the thunder from anything Corbyn has to say. Hopefully she is true to her word.
Munchkin, as a Labour supporter of many years, I was very impressed with May's speech, the only difference is that I remember the Thatcher speech when she first entered Downing St, and quoted the St. Francis speech, and that turned out to be the biggest lie of the 20th Century.

I was making the same comparison with Thatcher. Guess it's natural to compare the two. Thatcher was a very strong leader, but also a cold cow. I'm not sure how May will turn out, but her speech was quite powerful. Something I didn't expect. Only time will tell if she will be true to her word.

I see Osborne has quit. Glad to see the back of him, and Hammond is a fair enough replacement. Not so convinced about Boris as Foreign Secretary though! He will either charm everyone, or cause WW3. I do question whether his becoming Foreign Secretary was part of a deal made when he dropped out of the contest? Saying that, he isn't as bumbling as he he makes himself out to be.

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Post by GSC on Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:07 pm

I'd have probably given Osborne the Brexit job but not more than that.
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Post by Guest on Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:30 pm

The new British Foreign Secretary:

The EU Referendum - Thursday 23 June (with voting poll) - Page 13 572b35612200008f03255a0d

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Post by SecretFly on Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:31 pm

I knew May would save a place for Boris.  Good old Boris, the world needs one or two.  
May is a bit of a divil after all as I do believe the job she gave him is a little bit of a joke on the EU boys that sneered his desertion.  He's Back sooner than you think Juncker!
I'm delighted for him and hope that he now has the courage to actually Be the thing he campaigned for but feels guilty and timid about since - a fully loaded Brexiter.  

We foreigners (everyone except Juncker) will love having him as our cuddly conduit to the UK Wink OK .....we hope Whistle

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Post by GSC on Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:36 pm

No sign of Gove.

His backbench might be in the Arctic.
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Post by GSC on Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:43 pm

DCs last gamble failed badly, but still think hes one of the most talented politicians we've produced. Maybe it was in direct comparison to Osborne but he always came across well to me, even more since the EU vote.
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Post by GSC on Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:46 pm

Mays cabinet split fairly evenly down the middle so far, not so subtly those in the Leave camp have the international focused roles.
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Post by Duty281 on Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:24 pm

Not sure that Cameron will be remembered favourably. From the same brand of politicians as Blair and Clinton - heavy on image, heavy on stage-controlled soundbites, but little substance or depth.

Doubled the national debt. Failed to eradicate the deficit. Lost the UK's triple A credit rating in 2013. Behaved like an imbecile out of his depth when he said he would refuse to pay £1.5 billion to Brussels...and subsequently paid up. After weak negotiations, he lost the Brexit vote, the defining test of his leadership. Nearly lost Scotland. Only narrowly scraped past the inept Ed Miliband, and needed Clegg to help him over the line against *snigger* Gordon Brown. Free schools were another failure. Foolishly bombed Libya and, even worse, wanted to help what would be later-known as ISIS in Syria as he failed to understand the situation.

On the positive side - gay marriage. Limited child benefit to just two children. Protected defence spending.

Bye bye Dave.


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Post by GSC on Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:58 pm

Tim Farron isn't happy at BoJos appointment

Guess Theresa turned down his offer of a 2nd coalition.
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Post by Guest on Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:35 am

An interesting take on the secret ballot at NEC:

NEC

Does Corbyn endorse the bullying of those Labour members who oppose him?



The type of abuse aimed at some of Labours MP's: ABUSE

The level of abuse is really disgusting.

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Post by lostinwales on Thu Jul 14, 2016 9:47 am

Munchkin wrote:An interesting take on the secret ballot at NEC:

NEC

Does Corbyn endorse the bullying of those Labour members who oppose him?



The type of abuse aimed at some of Labours MP's: ABUSE

The level of abuse is really disgusting.

All this stuff happening around Corbyn. Doesn't matter really if he's responsible for it or not, but its not good. All the language that is used does come straight out of Mao's China or Stalin's Russia, with the bulk of the PLP suddenly becoming 'enemies of the people', or in current language 'Blairites'. Anybody who speaks badly of Corbyn is automatically denigrated. 'Kinnock lost 2 general elections therefore his opinion is worthless' etc..

So many of his acolytes seem convinced he will win the GE in 2020 and lead the UK into some kind of socialist paradise - using evidence of the Labour party's soaring membership as proof of his qualities and saintly presence. Meanwhile everybody else in the real world can see that the Labour party are driving over a cliff

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Post by SecretFly on Thu Jul 14, 2016 11:44 am

Munchkin wrote:An interesting take on the secret ballot at NEC:

NEC

Does Corbyn endorse the bullying of those Labour members who oppose him?


Johanna Baxter.  For someone who has expressed the fears of having to vote in public with all the dangers of being exposed to intimidation and abuse, she's certainly gone the wrong way about keeping her vote secret, hasn't she - even after winning the debate to have the voting done in secret.  Corby gets his way after all as someone concerned about intimidation and bullying gives her public interview to the National publication, The Guardian.

Will people get a grip on this spin business, please.  Even after the Blair years, most of you seem to pretend you are genuinely biting all these potential Spin propaganda stunts.

Who put the brick through Eagle's window?  Let's wait for the police to find out.
Who has made death threats to Corbyn?  Let the police find out.
Is Corbyn telling the truth about death threats?  Let him give the messages to the police and let us find out.
Is Johanna Baxter telling the truth about the messages coming to her?  Is she accurate in calling them 'bullying'?  Let her give the messages to the police and let's find out.

Let's find where the spin is coming from here , bluntly and legally; and let's find out if some of the spin is getting on for criminal misinformation for political gains.

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Post by SecretFly on Thu Jul 14, 2016 11:46 am

lostinwales wrote: Anybody who speaks badly of Corbyn is automatically denigrated.

Anyone who speaks in favour of him is denigrated.

The game continues. The Party MPs are rebels to the Corbyn supporters. The Corbyn supporters are rebels to the Party MP supporters.


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Post by funnyExiledScot on Thu Jul 14, 2016 11:47 am

Duty281 wrote:Not sure that Cameron will be remembered favourably. From the same brand of politicians as Blair and Clinton - heavy on image, heavy on stage-controlled soundbites, but little substance or depth.

Doubled the national debt. Failed to eradicate the deficit. Lost the UK's triple A credit rating in 2013.  Behaved like an imbecile out of his depth when he said he would refuse to pay £1.5 billion to Brussels...and subsequently paid up. After weak negotiations, he lost the Brexit vote, the defining test of his leadership. Nearly lost Scotland. Only narrowly scraped past the inept Ed Miliband, and needed Clegg to help him over the line against *snigger* Gordon Brown. Free schools were another failure. Foolishly bombed Libya and, even worse, wanted to help what would be later-known as ISIS in Syria as he failed to understand the situation.

On the positive side - gay marriage. Limited child benefit to just two children. Protected defence spending.

Bye bye Dave.


You voted for Brexit. Let's not pretend you care about those things.

Still, I think your conclusion is fair. Whilst people generally seem to "like" Cameron, there are precious few achievements from his time as PM. Obviously his ability to drive dramatic change was somewhat hindered by the financial position he inherited but, as you say, it was always pretty questionable as to whether he ultimately believed in half the stuff he pumped out to get elected.

I do think the comparison to Clinton and Blair is unfair. Those two are considerably more skilful and astute politicians, who achieved a vast amount more.

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Post by SecretFly on Thu Jul 14, 2016 11:52 am

Anyway, Boris has had his pound of flesh much earlier than I predicted but I'll remind some guys here that I did say he'd have the last laugh on Goebbels Gove, and few were sharing that view.

So come on everyone, if this was a Fairytale morality story, the wicked woodsman who stabs cute bunnies in the back, he's been cut down by the Dark Queen of Castle Blackdoor for his sins.

Smile everyone - goodness does win out against evil after all Wink

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:08 pm

SecretFly wrote:Anyway, Boris has had his pound of flesh much earlier than I predicted but I'll remind some guys here that I did say he'd have the last laugh on Goebbels Gove, and few were sharing that view.

So come on everyone, if this was a Fairytale morality story, the wicked woodsman who stabs cute bunnies in the back, he's been cut down by the Dark Queen of Castle Blackdoor for his sins.

Smile everyone - goodness does win out against evil after all Wink

I'm not so sure. I wouldn't right off Gove just yet! Sarah Vine will certainly be using her job to provide some heavy scrutiny of Boris' performance in his new role for which, of course, he is entirely unsuited.

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Post by GSC on Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:12 pm

Suspect his new role is that of a cheerleader and Davis/Fox have the serious role. Giving Boris a role is purely aimed at placating the Leave camp within her party and he remains ultra popular I think.
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Post by SecretFly on Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:13 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Anyway, Boris has had his pound of flesh much earlier than I predicted but I'll remind some guys here that I did say he'd have the last laugh on Goebbels Gove, and few were sharing that view.

So come on everyone, if this was a Fairytale morality story, the wicked woodsman who stabs cute bunnies in the back, he's been cut down by the Dark Queen of Castle Blackdoor for his sins.

Smile everyone - goodness does win out against evil after all Wink

I'm not so sure. I wouldn't right off Gove just yet! Sarah Vine will certainly be using her job to provide some heavy scrutiny of Boris' performance in his new role for which, of course, he is entirely unsuited.

Oh Dear Exiled, tell me you ain't a fan of snipe nosed Ichabod Crane opportunist Mr Gove? If you are I'll have to stop communicating with you, as it'll be proof we really are from different planets, you and I Wink

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Post by lostinwales on Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:14 pm

SecretFly wrote:Anyway, Boris has had his pound of flesh much earlier than I predicted but I'll remind some guys here that I did say he'd have the last laugh on Goebbels Gove, and few were sharing that view.

So come on everyone, if this was a Fairytale morality story, the wicked woodsman who stabs cute bunnies in the back, he's been cut down by the Dark Queen of Castle Blackdoor for his sins.

Smile everyone - goodness does win out against evil after all Wink

Interesting that Gove was rated by some for his stance on jail being a place for reformation as much as punishment. Otherwise he was pretty loathsome. Boris is in a kind of sink or swim role. Its obviously high profile but maybe does not have much impact on politics at home. If he messes up it'll be easy to boot him down the line.

It is good to see the back of the Eton set though. A tight little gang who seemed very out of touch. May does come across as the kind of steely leader I think we need right now. We'll just have to wait and see how she and her new cabinet set to government..

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Post by GSC on Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:15 pm

Gove like Osborne is someone I'd want in my corner. But we'll out of the limelight
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Post by SecretFly on Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:19 pm

GSC wrote:Gove like Osborne is someone I'd want in my corner. But we'll out of the limelight

Preferably not with them behind you in that corner...and with a light always on.... and with them handcuffed..... and no knives.....

Cool Then, yeah, they be good companions in a corner - if corners were a thing one liked being in. I'm not all that fond of them myself.

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Post by GSC on Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:22 pm

The problems come when they want out of the corner, like Osborns punishment budget and Goves leadership bid Wink.

Hunt holds onto Health. Thought he was a cert to be punted myself after the Junior Doctors fun.
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Post by funnyExiledScot on Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:27 pm

SecretFly wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Anyway, Boris has had his pound of flesh much earlier than I predicted but I'll remind some guys here that I did say he'd have the last laugh on Goebbels Gove, and few were sharing that view.

So come on everyone, if this was a Fairytale morality story, the wicked woodsman who stabs cute bunnies in the back, he's been cut down by the Dark Queen of Castle Blackdoor for his sins.

Smile everyone - goodness does win out against evil after all Wink

I'm not so sure. I wouldn't right off Gove just yet! Sarah Vine will certainly be using her job to provide some heavy scrutiny of Boris' performance in his new role for which, of course, he is entirely unsuited.

Oh Dear Exiled, tell me you ain't a fan of snipe nosed Ichabod Crane opportunist Mr Gove?  If you are I'll have to stop communicating with you, as it'll be proof we really are from different planets, you and I Wink

Don't worry, I'm no fan of Gove. I do, however, think he's a considerably brighter and more capable politician than Boris Johnson.

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Post by SecretFly on Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:38 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:

Don't worry, I'm no fan of Gove. I do, however, think he's a considerably brighter and more capable politician than Boris Johnson.

I'd doubt even that much on both counts, personally speaking. But glad I can still at least happily communicate with you on those differences of opinions, Exiled Wink Hug

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Post by lostinwales on Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:45 pm

Interesting to see that the new Chancellor is worth considerably more than the old one. Important point of difference is that the new guy didn't inherit his wealth.

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Post by Guest on Thu Jul 14, 2016 1:28 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Munchkin wrote:An interesting take on the secret ballot at NEC:

NEC

Does Corbyn endorse the bullying of those Labour members who oppose him?


Johanna Baxter.  For someone who has expressed the fears of having to vote in public with all the dangers of being exposed to intimidation and abuse, she's certainly gone the wrong way about keeping her vote secret, hasn't she - even after winning the debate to have the voting done in secret.  Corby gets his way after all as someone concerned about intimidation and bullying gives her public interview to the National publication, The Guardian.

Will people get a grip on this spin business, please.  Even after the Blair years, most of you seem to pretend you are genuinely biting all these potential Spin propaganda stunts.

Who put the brick through Eagle's window?  Let's wait for the police to find out.  
Who has made death threats to Corbyn?  Let the police find out.
Is Corbyn telling the truth about death threats?  Let him give the messages to the police and let us find out.
Is Johanna Baxter telling the truth about the messages coming to her?  Is she accurate in calling them 'bullying'?  Let her give the messages to the police and let's find out.

Let's find where the spin is coming from here , bluntly and legally; and let's find out if some of the spin is getting on for criminal misinformation for political gains.

It's hardly buying into the spin, Fly. Do you really believe that all that is happening around Corbyn is coincidence? Do you really believe that Corbyn can't do more to control the general level of anti-Semitism or the anti-Semitism specifically towards Labour members. Do you believe that he can't do more to stop the intimidation of Labour members who oppose him?

Corbyn claims it's all nothing to do with him, even when he tries to prevent a secret ballot, a ballot that would help prevent those that vote from being intimidated by his cronies. Sure, blame the victims....

Who is buying into whose spin?

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Post by SecretFly on Thu Jul 14, 2016 2:08 pm

Munchkin wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Munchkin wrote:An interesting take on the secret ballot at NEC:

NEC

Does Corbyn endorse the bullying of those Labour members who oppose him?


Johanna Baxter.  For someone who has expressed the fears of having to vote in public with all the dangers of being exposed to intimidation and abuse, she's certainly gone the wrong way about keeping her vote secret, hasn't she - even after winning the debate to have the voting done in secret.  Corby gets his way after all as someone concerned about intimidation and bullying gives her public interview to the National publication, The Guardian.

Will people get a grip on this spin business, please.  Even after the Blair years, most of you seem to pretend you are genuinely biting all these potential Spin propaganda stunts.

Who put the brick through Eagle's window?  Let's wait for the police to find out.  
Who has made death threats to Corbyn?  Let the police find out.
Is Corbyn telling the truth about death threats?  Let him give the messages to the police and let us find out.
Is Johanna Baxter telling the truth about the messages coming to her?  Is she accurate in calling them 'bullying'?  Let her give the messages to the police and let's find out.

Let's find where the spin is coming from here , bluntly and legally; and let's find out if some of the spin is getting on for criminal misinformation for political gains.

It's hardly buying into the spin, Fly. Do you really believe that all that is happening around Corbyn is coincidence? Do you really believe that Corbyn can't do more to control the general level of anti-Semitism or the anti-Semitism specifically towards Labour members. Do you believe that he can't do more to stop the intimidation of Labour members who oppose him?

Corbyn claims it's all nothing to do with him, even when he tries to prevent a secret ballot, a ballot that would help prevent those that vote from being intimidated by his cronies. Sure, blame the victims....

Who is buying into whose spin?

I'm buying no spin - or potential spin - I am though alive to it, Munch.  And I'm observing it all from outside the bubble.  That's the difference;  at least I'm looking for it.  I don't see much observation of it in the UK media these days though.  I don't see an acknowledgement that in these dramatic times in the UK, when power is being played around with like a tennis ball across a net, that political spinning of events and/or pretend-events are a known and used weapon in such 'wars'.

Everyone (the voters, the observers and the media) want to again pretend they believe everything they hear.  They want to believe it all because it's more fun to pretend to believe it than to question it.  The journalists are loving the box-set drama, it sells papers and air-time.

Why is it though that a stone through Eagle's window was taken much more seriously than Corbyn's claim that he has received death threats?  Why?  
The answer is because journalists don't want to give his side of the game credibility, because his side of the game is portrayed as the 'Evil' side.  They can't be saying the Evil Lord of Pig Headed Leftism had his life threatened - for that would weaken the brick through the window story about innocent good-deed doer Eagle.

I'd like the truth about both stories.  Corbyn can't just say he's had death threats, he needs to allow the police in to investigate the evidence.  I don't want either politician claiming anything until the police get the evidence and declare what their opinion is.  I'm not believing any potential dirty tricks operations until something legal happens to prove what is true and what isn't.  And I still say this Johanna Baxter has a strange way of being afraid her voting decision would be made public.  She got her wish for a secret ballot and still went public!  How convenient that it keeps the 'outrage' pressure on Evil Corby.

But I am enjoying the myriad of tall tales and action adventures from all quarters that are happening in UK politics at the moment. Wink

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Post by lostinwales on Thu Jul 14, 2016 2:41 pm

SecretFly wrote:...
Why is it though that a stone through Eagle's window was taken much more seriously than Corbyn's claim that he has received death threats?  Why?  
The answer is because journalists don't want to give his side of the game credibility, because his side of the game is portrayed as the 'Evil' side.  They can't be saying the Evil Lord of Pig Headed Leftism had his life threatened - for that would weaken the brick through the window story about innocent good-deed doer Eagle.

...

Because there is tangible and obvious evidence from a brick through a window.

I would have thought (sadly) that death threats go with the territory of being in the public eye, especially when controversial stuff is going on, and 99.99% of them are down to random harmless nutters. The 0.01% are what the cops are for.

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Post by SecretFly on Thu Jul 14, 2016 3:01 pm

lostinwales wrote:

I would have thought (sadly) that death threats go with the territory of being in the public eye, especially when controversial stuff is going on, and 99.99% of them are down to random harmless nutters. The 0.01% are what the cops are for.

A death threat is a death threat.  A few weeks ago, the attitude to death threats wasn't so casual, Lost.  Even now, the very threats are spoken about on the anti-Corbyn side and media take them seriously and report them as such.  We go easily back to Johanna Baxter as the latest example.  I repeat, why are alleged threats to Corbyn's life glossed over whilst threats to people who are in the opposite camp are taken seriously?

A brick through a window is a brick through a window.  Yes, it's a physical brick and it did go through a window - but who threw it?  Do we know?  

Is it possibly a brick thrown by a Corbyn-clan hater who wants to pin the act on him and his uncontrollable supporters?  Is it possible that wise heads in a power fight might even think something like that might be a good idea?  I think it's possible to suspect that might be one version of why the brick went through the window.
So the truth would need more investigation than to simply believe without question that the brick had a genuine Corbyn-supporter signature on it or that the Corbyn death threats were just one of those things that happen all people in public office.

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Post by GSC on Thu Jul 14, 2016 3:14 pm

Leadsom gets Environment Secretary for stepping aside.
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Post by SecretFly on Thu Jul 14, 2016 3:22 pm

Crabb walks away because ...well.....................

This is a show that doesn't stop giving.

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Post by Ent on Thu Jul 14, 2016 3:29 pm

Lost all faith in May already, keeping the worst performing minister in his job (hunt) is just incompetent.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu Jul 14, 2016 3:30 pm

Bye bye Michael, bye bye Nicky Yahoo

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Post by GSC on Thu Jul 14, 2016 3:32 pm

I can only imagine Hunts still there because the dispute is ongoing and he's a useful shield for criticism.
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Post by GSC on Thu Jul 14, 2016 3:47 pm

Gotta love Boris. Gove the latest to find out he's unkillable.
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Post by lostinwales on Thu Jul 14, 2016 3:57 pm

Our new foreign secretary. He does have a way with words...

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/07/13/countries_boris_johnson_has_insulted.html

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Post by Guest on Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:07 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Munchkin wrote:An interesting take on the secret ballot at NEC:

NEC

Does Corbyn endorse the bullying of those Labour members who oppose him?


Johanna Baxter.  For someone who has expressed the fears of having to vote in public with all the dangers of being exposed to intimidation and abuse, she's certainly gone the wrong way about keeping her vote secret, hasn't she - even after winning the debate to have the voting done in secret.  Corby gets his way after all as someone concerned about intimidation and bullying gives her public interview to the National publication, The Guardian.

Will people get a grip on this spin business, please.  Even after the Blair years, most of you seem to pretend you are genuinely biting all these potential Spin propaganda stunts.

Who put the brick through Eagle's window?  Let's wait for the police to find out.  
Who has made death threats to Corbyn?  Let the police find out.
Is Corbyn telling the truth about death threats?  Let him give the messages to the police and let us find out.
Is Johanna Baxter telling the truth about the messages coming to her?  Is she accurate in calling them 'bullying'?  Let her give the messages to the police and let's find out.

Let's find where the spin is coming from here , bluntly and legally; and let's find out if some of the spin is getting on for criminal misinformation for political gains.

It's hardly buying into the spin, Fly. Do you really believe that all that is happening around Corbyn is coincidence? Do you really believe that Corbyn can't do more to control the general level of anti-Semitism or the anti-Semitism specifically towards Labour members. Do you believe that he can't do more to stop the intimidation of Labour members who oppose him?

Corbyn claims it's all nothing to do with him, even when he tries to prevent a secret ballot, a ballot that would help prevent those that vote from being intimidated by his cronies. Sure, blame the victims....

Who is buying into whose spin?

I'm buying no spin - or potential spin - I am though alive to it, Munch.  And I'm observing it all from outside the bubble.  That's the difference;  at least I'm looking for it.  I don't see much observation of it in the UK media these days though.  I don't see an acknowledgement that in these dramatic times in the UK, when power is being played around with like a tennis ball across a net, that political spinning of events and/or pretend-events are a known and used weapon in such 'wars'.

Everyone (the voters, the observers and the media) want to again pretend they believe everything they hear.  They want to believe it all because it's more fun to pretend to believe it than to question it.  The journalists are loving the box-set drama, it sells papers and air-time.

Why is it though that a stone through Eagle's window was taken much more seriously than Corbyn's claim that he has received death threats?  Why?  
The answer is because journalists don't want to give his side of the game credibility, because his side of the game is portrayed as the 'Evil' side.  They can't be saying the Evil Lord of Pig Headed Leftism had his life threatened - for that would weaken the brick through the window story about innocent good-deed doer Eagle.

I'd like the truth about both stories.  Corbyn can't just say he's had death threats, he needs to allow the police in to investigate the evidence.  I don't want either politician claiming anything until the police get the evidence and declare what their opinion is.  I'm not believing any potential dirty tricks operations until something legal happens to prove what is true and what isn't.  And I still say this Johanna Baxter has a strange way of being afraid her voting decision would be made public.  She got her wish for a secret ballot and still went public!  How convenient that it keeps the 'outrage' pressure on Evil Corby.

But I am enjoying the myriad of tall tales and action adventures from all quarters that are happening in UK politics at the moment. Wink

I don't buy the spin, Fly. I look for the evidence as well (most of the time), and, in looking, I see enough to tell me that Corbyn turns a blind eye to anti-Semitism unless put under pressure. I also see that those Labour members opposed to him are being intimidated by those who support him - Momentum. I also take note of the fact that he was against the secret ballot even though the purpose of the secret ballot was to protect those members who understandably felt under threat. As Leader, these are members he is supposed to help protect.

I'm well aware of the games the media play. I criticise the media often enough on these boards. I do take time to consider the facts though, and tend to look for a common thread. The level of antisemitism and bullying has been a common thread since Corbyn has been in power.

I have plenty of evidence which confirms Corbyn is soft on anti-Semites, including bringing suspended anti-Semites back into the Party while the Party is being pulled apart by these characters. There is also more than enough evidence that certain members are being bullied, including the concerns of the Deputy Leader Tom Watson who has called for these bullies to be thrown out of the Party, and this example was in 2015 Intimidation

I do take your point on a media hunt against Corbyn, and I do respect your opinion. The media is after him, I don't doubt that, but that's not to say they are wrong. Corbyn is providing all the daggers they need.

It is all quite fascinating, Fly. An incredible year in politics  Smile

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Post by lostinwales on Thu Jul 14, 2016 9:09 pm

If nothing else its made politics interesting again.

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Post by SecretFly on Thu Jul 14, 2016 10:58 pm

I see that one of the rules of the NEC in advance of the election of a new (or same) Labour leader is not going down well with the members.

We know that they don't like the new voting restrictions based on date of membership, and we know that they aren't happy about the upping of the membership fee to £25 - but it seems there has also been a ban placed on constituency party meetings until after the vote!

Every trick in the book it seems is being pulled to keep these nuisance Lefties away from the voting and each other Wink

Anyway, it seems members in, of all places, Angela Eagle's constituency have yet again 'rebelled' and held an unofficial meeting in defiance of the NEC ban.  And at that meeting they've voted through a no-confidence motion in poor Angela by 54 to 9.  Meaningless in official terms of course but very pointed about how strong a base of support she has even in her very own constituency.

Oh Dear, oh dear.

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Post by GSC on Thu Jul 14, 2016 11:21 pm

Not sure how this ends really. A split seems more likely than not. They can't rid themselves of Corbyn despite his lacklustre performances against a Tory government in shambles. He'll probably end trying to deselect his most vocal critics after this, so sitting and waiting for him to get smashed in a GE isn't much of an option.
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Post by Guest on Thu Jul 14, 2016 11:27 pm

Grim news from France. There are quite a few dead, and it looks like a terrorist attack.

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Post by SecretFly on Thu Jul 14, 2016 11:35 pm

Yeah. Well what can you say? All that can be said has already been said and is probably at this point exhausted.

If that truck now is loaded with explosives? They'll have to be cautious there.

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Post by Guest on Thu Jul 14, 2016 11:38 pm

I'm not sure they have caught the twisted, evil, individual/s, so the threat could still be out there. All those families...

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Post by LordDowlais on Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:49 am

As much as it pains me to say this, and it really does, it looks as though Nigel Farage is right about controlling our borders. How many times does this need to happen in France, a country that is on our doorstep before people realise that this open border policy within the EU is going to allow more of this to happen.

There were children killed in this attack, children. My heart breaks for these families, there is not much that scares me in life, but one of the major things that puts terror in me is any harm on my daughters. When has attacking innocent people and their children ever been justifiable ?

RIP. Crying or Very sad

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Post by GSC on Fri Jul 15, 2016 9:21 am

Not seen the driver be affiliated with any terror groups as of yet so will try to avoid any sweeping statements, but simply horrible events.
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Post by navyblueshorts on Fri Jul 15, 2016 9:24 am

lostinwales wrote:...Boris is in a kind of sink or swim role. Its obviously high profile but maybe does not have much impact on politics at home. If he messes up it'll be easy to boot him down the line...
Precisely. Much as I wouldn't trust BoJo as far as I can throw him, think it's quite a cute appointment by May.
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Post by navyblueshorts on Fri Jul 15, 2016 9:29 am

lostinwales wrote:Interesting to see that the new Chancellor is worth considerably more than the old one. Important point of difference is that the new guy didn't inherit his wealth.
As if that is really relevant at all. Phillip Green didn't inherit his wealth either as far as I know. Nor Mike Ashley. Hammond's wealth and the way he came about it doesn't necessarily mean he'll make a decent or clever Chancellor, at all.
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