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Frampton v Santa Cruz

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Frampton v Santa Cruz - Page 2 Empty Frampton v Santa Cruz

Post by rodders on Wed 27 Jul 2016, 10:03 am

First topic message reminder :

This one seems to be slipping under the radar a bit.

I haven't watched a lot of Santa Cruz but given his record, the weight jump and how Carl's previous US fight went this would look to be by far the biggest and hardest fight of his career.

What are people's thoughts on how this will go?

Can Frampton keep out of range and pick off a points win in New York or will the step to FW and class be too much?

Has he got enough power to trouble LSC?
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Post by milkyboy on Sat 30 Jul 2016, 9:42 am

I think frampton believes he has the technical attributes to out box lsc, which together with the money obviously is why the took the fight. I think he's the more rounded package as a fighter, but I worry that for all his good footwork and boxing ability he gets caught  and combined with stamina question marks against a high output good technician with size/reach advantage, lsc is rightly favourite.

I expect it to be close early, and if the weight improves frampton's stamina then it could be close the whole way.

On a positive note, frampton will offer things to keep Santa Cruz more honest than probably any other opponent has... And we don't know what effect that will have on lsc's output.

Frampton will have to box at his very best to win and I'm not sure we've seen that for a while.

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Post by Nico the gman on Sat 30 Jul 2016, 2:28 pm

Big Frampton fan, but can't let my heart rule my head, LSC on points, that reach is going to take some getting past, will be surprised if Frampton doesn't have some big rounds though,too good not to.

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Post by catchweight on Sat 30 Jul 2016, 5:31 pm

I hope the fight lives up to its promise. 7/2 on Frampton winning a decision looks decent value to me, even if Santa Cruz is justifiably favourite.

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Post by hazharrison on Sat 30 Jul 2016, 8:16 pm

Frampton @ 8-1 in rounds 1-12 looks great value.

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Post by catchweight on Sat 30 Jul 2016, 8:36 pm

Frampton to get knocked down and win @ 12/1 also aint bad.

I definately think all the value for this one lies on the Frampton side.

4/9 seems mighty stingy on Santa Cruz for me.


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Post by mobilemaster8 on Sat 30 Jul 2016, 8:51 pm

Coyle seems to have no pop at the higher weight. Think this fight gets stopped between 6-8. Coyle will succumbe to the clean uppercuts even if nurse punches as hard as malignaggi

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Post by RanjitPatel on Sat 30 Jul 2016, 10:38 pm

Couple of years ago I would have said Frampton to win clearly or by ko but that was at the weight below. Frampton hasn't impressed as much since then and LSC has shown other facets to his game where I had him down as another Brandon Rios.

I'm a Frampton fan so hope he wins and would have loved to have looked at this fight and given him the nod but I can't. I think he may even be stopped this fight. LSC will just be too big and I think Frampton will struggle with the swarmed style over there. Probably should have taken a fight at the weight 1st.

Hopefully there's a bit of underestimating Carl from LSC seeing as he's already looking at his next fight after Frampton. Frampton doesn't seem to be rated as highly in America for some reason.

Anyway I hope Frampton wins.

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Post by milkyboy on Sat 30 Jul 2016, 11:28 pm

That's pretty much how I see it ranjit, but I certainly don't see it as a lost cause... I agree the odds on frampton look a little generous. I expected Santa Cruz to be favourite but not as strong a favourite as he is.

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Post by mobilemaster8 on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 4:12 am

Cracking fight so far have Carl up by 3 rounds after 4. Boxing well and has shown already he can hurt LSC

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Post by mobilemaster8 on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 4:15 am

Another good round for Carl. Think Cruz has felt the power and is slightly watery about going in

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Post by mobilemaster8 on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 4:27 am

Carl 2 up now after 8. Cruz had good 6 and 7th Carl taking 8th with some clean work

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Post by mobilemaster8 on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 4:39 am

Good fight have Carl winning by couple rounds. Unless LSC grabs a KO or a KD he has lost this fight. Great performance from both.

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Post by mobilemaster8 on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 4:44 am

Great final round. Carl for me.

115-113 worst case a draw couple rounds were close.

Standby for boxing politics to come out the woodwork

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Post by mobilemaster8 on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 5:17 am

117-111 was ridiculous. 114-114 I could see along with 116-112. Had it more 115-113 myself good close fight but Carl the winner. Couldn't give it any wider than that. Not sure what judges smoke these days

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Post by AdamT on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 5:45 am

116-112.

I'm glad to be proved wrong. Wasn't sure he could do it.

Amazing!!

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 5:56 am

Morning Adam, you must be over the moon !

Congratulations to both fighters really good fight, well deserved win for Frampton. I could easily watch that one again. Neither man drew away from the other.

Frampton now in the driving seat, if there is a rematch Santa Cruz has to come to Belfast

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Post by milkyboy on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 7:44 am

Great result. Chuffed for him. Delighted to be wrong.

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Post by quentins_monkey on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 8:49 am

Incredible result for Frampton and really happy he won - I like most people I've spoken to and read on here though LSC would overwhelm him and potentially stop him but by all accounts he deserved the nod. Haven't seen the fight yet so will reserve judgment but still chuffed for him regardless.

Question is with this win where do you now place Frampton in the P4P rankings? 2 weight world champion (although not officially the man at the lower weight as hasn't fought Rigondeux) but surely he's got to be somewhere near the top 10?

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 9:47 am

Picked Frampton......Shrewd, intelligent little fighter..

Good stuff..

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Post by AdamT on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 9:51 am

You did pick him Truss. Fair play.

Herman I'm over the moon. I was hoping he pulled it off, but I didn't think he would quite pull it off.

It's great being wrong lol

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Post by Rowley on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 10:52 am

Just watched it, cracking fight, one of those neither really deserved to lose but Frampton deserved the nod for my money. Got his tactics just right, got Santa Cruz to realise he could not just march in early and didn't stay in the pocket too long after that but didn't run all night.

Got to give respect to Barry Mcguigan in this as well, people have questioned some of his choices in the past but Frampton will wake up this morning with a lot of options and you'd imagine Showtime will be looking to get him back pretty quickly.

Fantastic fight and fantastic outcome for one of the sports good guys.

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Post by hazharrison on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 11:01 am

Rowley wrote:Just watched it, cracking fight, one of those neither really deserved to lose but Frampton deserved the nod for my money. Got his tactics just right, got Santa Cruz to realise he could not just march in early and didn't stay in the pocket too long after that but didn't run all night.

Got to give respect to Barry Mcguigan in this as well, people have questioned some of his choices in the past but Frampton will wake up this morning with a lot of options and you'd imagine Showtime will be looking to get him back pretty quickly.

Fantastic fight and fantastic outcome for one of the sports good guys.

Spot on Rowley.

I had it for Frampton by two rounds but it could easily have been a draw.

Frampton (as he did against Quigg) shut down LSC with clever movement and expert counter punching. He's a fantastic little fighter and the move to 126 lbs. seemed to help him in terms of both power and stamina.

Need a Belfast fight now!

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 11:04 am

Carl must be right near the top now of current British fighters and top 15 p4p on world list, I have to say he's a lot better than I ever thought he was. I rewatched the fight with the sound down, I definitely see a big rematch in Belfast next summer they'd be crazy to do that in LA. Selby next maybe, I'm not picking against Carl again !

Another thing I was very wrong about is Santa being levels above Quigg, on a little reflection they must be close wouldn't you say could be a real fun fight  Santa and Quigg.

Carl didn't let Leo fight his fight, some great countering early on in the fight, his stamina never an issue that concern about him can be put to bed now

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Post by hazharrison on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 11:22 am

I agree Herman - Quigg vs LSC would be great. Have a feeling they'll push Quigg down the alphabet route at 122, though.

Selby followed by a LSC rematch next year would be great for Frampton.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 11:36 am

If he beats Selby and wins Santa Cruz rematch he's knocking on door of top ten world list, if he then beats Russell jr then he's in there.

Beating Rigondeaux or Lomachenko takes him into top 5.

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Post by hazharrison on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 11:58 am

Herman Jaeger wrote:If he beats Selby and wins Santa Cruz rematch he's knocking on door of top ten world list, if he then beats Russell jr then he's in there.

Beating Rigondeaux or Lomachenko takes him into top 5.

I think he's there or thereabouts already.

I can't see the Rigo or Loma fights ever coming off.

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Post by Rowley on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 12:09 pm

Would agree re. Rigo Haz. Whether the purist in us likes it or not on the back of last night Frampton has a lot of profitable and credible fights available to him, such as the LSC rematch, such as Selby for a homecoming, such as Russell that it is hard to imagine where a low ticket selling defensive wizard who it is virtually impossible to look good against fits into the plans.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 12:10 pm

Quite possibly there already as you say, although to be certain I'd like to see him beat one of the slicker fighters now Selby or Russell jr or both

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Post by Rowley on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 12:16 pm

https://www.606v2.com/t9500-qa-with-carl-the-jackal-frampton

For anyone who has not read it a Q&A Carl did with the forum ages ago. He comes across extremely well.

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Post by catchweight on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 12:30 pm

Great fight and great win for Frampton. LSC boxed to win rather than not to lose like Quigg did for a lot of rounds so it brought out the best of Frampton.

I believe they want Selby or Russell Jr next. Both of those fighters are backed by Haymon who the Mcguigans have struck a deal with so they should be hopefully be straightforward to make. With the momentum they have in the U.S now they might want to capitalise on that for the next fight although I think Russell Jr is a trickier test that Selby for Frampton.

Selby v Warrington and Frampton v Russell Jr wuld be great if they could come off next.

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Post by marty2086 on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 12:33 pm

Rowley wrote:Would agree re. Rigo Haz. Whether the purist in us likes it or not on the back of last night Frampton has a lot of profitable and credible fights available to him, such as the LSC rematch, such as Selby for a homecoming, such as Russell that it is hard to imagine where a low ticket selling defensive wizard who it is virtually impossible to look good against fits into the plans.

A Rigo fight becomes more profitable down the line if Frampton builds his name in America and becomes a draw, then you don't necessarily need a draw across the ring, though a top ranked fighter would be a decent draw.

The idea of Rigondeaux as a boring fighter is subjective since he fights a fight similar to how Frampton set up for last night

The problem is, Frampton now seems more comfortable at Featherweight what weight would it take place at? Rigos never fought as featherweight

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 12:36 pm

Rigo will never be profitable..He's Cuban and stinks..

He's also ancient for a little guy..

Do it in the next year or don't bother...

Frampton however is a goldmine..


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Post by marty2086 on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 12:40 pm

Stinks? Shocked Rolling Eyes

I never said he'd be profitable, I said Frampton would be and either your ancient or your not I dont think size changes that

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 12:47 pm

The bigger you are the less age matters...

Boxing history tells us that...

But whatever...

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Post by marty2086 on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 12:49 pm

Yes you rely more on power as you slow down, Rigos got power in spades though and the Dickens fight he showed no sign of slowing down but yeah hes ancient

But whatever eh.....

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 1:12 pm

When Leo landed a fairly big right hand late on I thought a Santa Cruz late surge was going to come, but Frampton showed he's a tough little guy not just a good boxer. Definitely better suited to 26

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Post by AdamT on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 4:13 pm

Truss is right. Frampton will have now cracked the states, as well as arguably being the Uk's biggest draw.

He can pick his fights now.

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Post by BoxingFan88 on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 4:22 pm

Really good performance from Frampton the right hand left hook was working really well

Glad Frampton managed to hurt him early and that reduced his output which is what he needed to do

Would love a rematch

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 4:49 pm

He can definitely pick his fights now.

How about Selby vs Santa Cruz, Frampton vs Russell Jr, winner vs winner

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Post by marty2086 on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 4:56 pm

Unfortunate that we probably wont get to see the rematch in Belfast, Windsor Park next summer would have been nice as the times would mean less value to the US market

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Post by AdamT on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 4:57 pm

I was thinking Frampton v Selby.

LSC vs Quigg. Winners then meet.

Also I change my opinion on Frampton vs Selby. Carl looked great at the weight and I think he would get a decision.

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Post by marty2086 on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 5:00 pm

Dont see Quigg being much of a challenge for LSC, a rematch between the two has to happen. I think it would be an even better match second time and both are actually even better than we saw from them last night

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Post by AdamT on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 5:11 pm

I agree, but I think the Selby fight is good business first.
Though I would love to see a rematch.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 5:16 pm

Go for Selby next then rematch with Santa Cruz, come through those then think about Russell Jr

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Post by marty2086 on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 5:17 pm

Depends who calls the shots now though, does the deal with Al Haymon give him the power? In that case Russell and the US market seems more likely but a fight with Selby could be great and make both big money

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Post by catchweight on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 5:17 pm

Quigg is not much of a ticket seller so I can see him going on a another run of fighting C list opponents on Matchroom undercards looking to secure a title to defend. At the moment with no title and coming off a bad ppv performance I doubt he will get a big fight next. Probably an easy workout against against a former flyweight while Joe Gallagher tells everyone Frampton got lucky in their first fight and is dodging a rematch in the post fight interview.


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Post by Pedro147 on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 5:18 pm

With reference to Frampton’s stamina, has there ever been an issue with it or was it simply called into question because of Joe Gallagher?

Apart from the last few rounds in the Quigg fight I’ve never seen the whole issue with his supposed stamina issues. And in that fight Quigg did nothing for the first 6 rounds so I would’ve expected him to come on strong. Seems the whole thing was fabricated by Joe Gallagher.

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Post by marty2086 on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 5:22 pm

Against Gonzalez he did seem to fade a bit more than usual in the later rounds, like I said before the fight I put that down to the weight cut getting harder so fancied him to be able to go the distance last night, though he did seem to slow about the 10th round then went for it a bit in the last round

The big power shots he went for early on I think took a bit out of him too last night

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Post by Pedro147 on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 5:25 pm

marty2086 wrote:Against Gonzalez he did seem to fade a bit more than usual in the later rounds, like I said before the fight I put that down to the weight cut getting harder so fancied him to be able to go the distance last night, though he did seem to slow about the 10th round then went for it a bit in the last round

The big power shots he went for early on I think took a bit out of him too last night

LSC style is stamina consuming for his opponents so his conditioning was spot on for me.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 5:54 pm

AdamT wrote:I was thinking Frampton v Selby.

LSC vs Quigg. Winners then meet.

Also I change my opinion on Frampton vs Selby. Carl looked great at the weight and I think he would get a decision.

Why would Cruz fight Quigg ????? For no title......No sense to it..

Frampton's handlers have any sense after Quigg and Cruz they will pick an easy top 10er...

Kid deserves it.....

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