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5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sat 13 Aug 2016, 12:47 am

First topic message reminder :

The other thread is coming to an end and I think it's nice to have a new memory to take us through this year.

And with the new season starting today, what better time to refresh things and start again. The preamble of pre-season is over: 2016/17 LETS BE AVIN YA

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Wed 17 Aug 2016, 10:50 pm

GSC wrote:Why on earth would Antonio be playing RB anyway.

Bilic likes his stamina, strength and the pace on the overlap. But whilst Antonio can do a job, and is very good help for the full back, he clearly has no positional sense for it.

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Post by Guest on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 8:56 am

Crimey wrote:I'd be happy with either Can coming in, allowing Henderson and Gini as the two pressing centre-midfielders or Origi coming in and Firmino dropping deeper. Just nice to have options for once.
Have Clyne play at LB and stick Emre at RB?

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Post by Crimey on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 10:49 am

DAVE667 wrote:
Crimey wrote:I'd be happy with either Can coming in, allowing Henderson and Gini as the two pressing centre-midfielders or Origi coming in and Firmino dropping deeper. Just nice to have options for once.
Have Clyne play at LB and stick Emre at RB?

Can at RB is miles worse than Moreno at left back.

I think we're just going to have to suck it up and cope with Moreno personally.

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Post by Guest on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 11:18 am

Crimey wrote:
DAVE667 wrote:
Crimey wrote:I'd be happy with either Can coming in, allowing Henderson and Gini as the two pressing centre-midfielders or Origi coming in and Firmino dropping deeper. Just nice to have options for once.
Have Clyne play at LB and stick Emre at RB?

Can at RB is miles worse than Moreno at left back.

I think we're just going to have to suck it up and cope with Moreno personally.
Think he's a better player now than and would do a decent job until an alternative for Moreno comes along (hopefully Milner is fit soon but even that's not ideal)

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Post by Crimey on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 12:17 pm

DAVE667 wrote:
Crimey wrote:
DAVE667 wrote:
Crimey wrote:I'd be happy with either Can coming in, allowing Henderson and Gini as the two pressing centre-midfielders or Origi coming in and Firmino dropping deeper. Just nice to have options for once.
Have Clyne play at LB and stick Emre at RB?

Can at RB is miles worse than Moreno at left back.

I think we're just going to have to suck it up and cope with Moreno personally.
Think he's a better player now than and would do a decent job until an alternative for Moreno comes along (hopefully Milner is fit soon but even that's not ideal)

I just don't see how it'd work, particularly in the system Klopp wants to play.

The full backs have to provide almost all the width and Can just isn't going to hug the touchline in the same way that Moreno and Clyne do. Not to mention his positioning isn't great anyway and putting Clyne on his wrong side is going to make his positioning worse. 

Moreno has been poor, but I feel like making two players play out of position just to push him out isn't the solution.

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Post by Guest on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 12:55 pm

Crimey wrote:
DAVE667 wrote:
Crimey wrote:
DAVE667 wrote:
Crimey wrote:I'd be happy with either Can coming in, allowing Henderson and Gini as the two pressing centre-midfielders or Origi coming in and Firmino dropping deeper. Just nice to have options for once.
Have Clyne play at LB and stick Emre at RB?

Can at RB is miles worse than Moreno at left back.

I think we're just going to have to suck it up and cope with Moreno personally.
Think he's a better player now than and would do a decent job until an alternative for Moreno comes along (hopefully Milner is fit soon but even that's not ideal)

I just don't see how it'd work, particularly in the system Klopp wants to play.

The full backs have to provide almost all the width and Can just isn't going to hug the touchline in the same way that Moreno and Clyne do. Not to mention his positioning isn't great anyway and putting Clyne on his wrong side is going to make his positioning worse. 

Moreno has been poor, but I feel like making two players play out of position just to push him out isn't the solution.
Is it any worse than having a liability of the pitch who stifles the team's attacking capabilities as they're wary of the fact he's leaving them short at the back so are looking to cover for him. Thought Wijnaldum, Henderson and Lallana were tripping over each other on Sunday and felt it was because they were dropping back to keep an eye on Moreno rather than pressing forward.

Maybe I just have a downer on the lad! You're only as strong as your weakest link and at the minute I think it's quite clearly him. We can't afford to give him half a season to get his act together if we're looking to get anywhere near top four. The issues he had last season haven't gone away and it's going to cause big problems.

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Post by Crimey on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 1:02 pm

DAVE667 wrote:
Crimey wrote:
DAVE667 wrote:
Crimey wrote:
DAVE667 wrote:
Crimey wrote:I'd be happy with either Can coming in, allowing Henderson and Gini as the two pressing centre-midfielders or Origi coming in and Firmino dropping deeper. Just nice to have options for once.
Have Clyne play at LB and stick Emre at RB?

Can at RB is miles worse than Moreno at left back.

I think we're just going to have to suck it up and cope with Moreno personally.
Think he's a better player now than and would do a decent job until an alternative for Moreno comes along (hopefully Milner is fit soon but even that's not ideal)

I just don't see how it'd work, particularly in the system Klopp wants to play.

The full backs have to provide almost all the width and Can just isn't going to hug the touchline in the same way that Moreno and Clyne do. Not to mention his positioning isn't great anyway and putting Clyne on his wrong side is going to make his positioning worse. 

Moreno has been poor, but I feel like making two players play out of position just to push him out isn't the solution.
Is it any worse than having a liability of the pitch who stifles the team's attacking capabilities as they're wary of the fact he's leaving them short at the back so are looking to cover for him. Thought Wijnaldum, Henderson and Lallana were tripping over each other on Sunday and felt it was because they were dropping back to keep an eye on Moreno rather than pressing forward.

Maybe I just have a downer on the lad! You're only as strong as your weakest link and at the minute I think it's quite clearly him. We can't afford to give him half a season to get his act together if we're looking to get anywhere near top four. The issues he had last season haven't gone away and it's going to cause big problems.


Moreno is a problem, creating two problems to try and compensate is definitely worse.

It would totally stifle the team's attacking capabilities by having Clyne and Can as full backs.

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Post by Guest on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 1:33 pm

Crimey wrote:
DAVE667 wrote:
Crimey wrote:
DAVE667 wrote:
Crimey wrote:
DAVE667 wrote:
Crimey wrote:I'd be happy with either Can coming in, allowing Henderson and Gini as the two pressing centre-midfielders or Origi coming in and Firmino dropping deeper. Just nice to have options for once.
Have Clyne play at LB and stick Emre at RB?

Can at RB is miles worse than Moreno at left back.

I think we're just going to have to suck it up and cope with Moreno personally.
Think he's a better player now than and would do a decent job until an alternative for Moreno comes along (hopefully Milner is fit soon but even that's not ideal)

I just don't see how it'd work, particularly in the system Klopp wants to play.

The full backs have to provide almost all the width and Can just isn't going to hug the touchline in the same way that Moreno and Clyne do. Not to mention his positioning isn't great anyway and putting Clyne on his wrong side is going to make his positioning worse. 

Moreno has been poor, but I feel like making two players play out of position just to push him out isn't the solution.
Is it any worse than having a liability of the pitch who stifles the team's attacking capabilities as they're wary of the fact he's leaving them short at the back so are looking to cover for him. Thought Wijnaldum, Henderson and Lallana were tripping over each other on Sunday and felt it was because they were dropping back to keep an eye on Moreno rather than pressing forward.

Maybe I just have a downer on the lad! You're only as strong as your weakest link and at the minute I think it's quite clearly him. We can't afford to give him half a season to get his act together if we're looking to get anywhere near top four. The issues he had last season haven't gone away and it's going to cause big problems.


Moreno is a problem, creating two problems to try and compensate is definitely worse.

It would totally stifle the team's attacking capabilities by having Clyne and Can as full backs.
Having people sitting deeper just in case Moreno f8cks up also stifles our attacking capability as we've no-one to link up play with the forwards. Still, all about opinions and when he smashes in a 35yd screamer against utd, I'll probably forgive him...until next time!

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Post by Crimey on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 1:36 pm

I don't think they were sitting deeper to cover him and if that's what they were trying to do, they were doing an awful job of it.

The system Liverpool have played under Klopp relies on the full backs providing widths, if the full backs don't get forward and stay wide we'll end up being even more crowded in the centre.

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Post by nadeem2099 on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 1:44 pm

I think Moreno would be pretty good in a 352 formation, like Juve play, as an attacking wing back.
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Post by Crimey on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 1:46 pm

He did when Liverpool played 3-4-3 in 14/15, it was his most successful period.

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Post by Guest on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 2:03 pm

Crimey wrote:I don't think they were sitting deeper to cover him and if that's what they were trying to do, they were doing an awful job of it.

The system Liverpool have played under Klopp relies on the full backs providing widths, if the full backs don't get forward and stay wide we'll end up being even more crowded in the centre.
Perhaps he was so bad even they couldn't get him out of the hole he'd dug for himself. It's not the getting forward that's the issue with him, it's the getting back and staying back IN POSITION and putting in decent tackles etc....these are not small issues that need addressing

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Post by nadeem2099 on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 2:20 pm

Looks like Liverpool are interested in Fabio Coentrao but Zidane wants to keep him as back up to Marcelo. But if I were Klopp I would try my best to sign Jonas Hector. He may not be as attack minded like Moreno but at least his defensive abilities are sound.
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Post by Guest on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 2:24 pm

nadeem2099 wrote:Looks like Liverpool are interested in Fabio Coentrao but Zidane wants to keep him as back up to Marcelo. But if I were Klopp I would try my best to sign Jonas Hector. He may not be as attack minded like Moreno but at least his defensive abilities are sound.
As Crimey says, Klopp's wanting an attack minded team but I just think Moreno is a liability and whilst one should have faith in the manager, it would be nice to hear just what he see in Moreno in order to persist with him. As I said, the howlers he committed last year as still there and I'm disappointed that he hasn't gone some way to rectifying them during the Summer break.

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Post by Crimey on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 2:29 pm

Don't believe those rumours, Klopp's press conference today did not indicate that he plans to sign a new left back at all.

I think the facts are that Klopp isn't interesting in taking a conservative approach, I imagine we'll see plenty of scores like that this year. The team is set up take risks, including countering at pace, which means our full backs are often going to be out of position. I actually think his best strength is recovering, as he's so fast often he can catch back up to the winger. I agree his tackling and positioning are poor and Liverpool should sign a replacement.

However, I just don't know of many realistic full backs out there who can push forward at the level Klopp wants but is also magical in defence. Players like Marcelo and Alba are capable of it, but even they make similar mistakes, but they're way out of our league.

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Post by nadeem2099 on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 2:36 pm

If Klopp wants an attack minded left back that can defend aswell then he should go for either Ricardo Rodriguez or Alex Sandro. They won't be cheap, but both are very good attacking wise and can defend. They are a more realistic option than Marcelo/Alba. But as you say, it looks like Klopp will stick with Moreno for now.
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Post by Just John on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 7:13 pm

This Sky intro is horrifyingly bad

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 7:26 pm

Kammy. Go away

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 7:26 pm

Casual, innit. Friday night, havin a laugh down pub. Footie on? Oh aye, bantz

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 7:29 pm

"I dont mind Wayne being there, as long as he's penetrating" - Giggsy's sex addiction still a problem

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Post by Ent on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 7:50 pm

He was eyeing up the female presenter in the pub.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 8:36 pm

Ibra 1-0

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 8:37 pm

Rooney assist

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Post by Ent on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 8:37 pm

Great header that.

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Post by Hero on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 8:39 pm

He's really struggling to adapt to the Premier league isn't he!

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Post by Guest on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 8:48 pm

I've been banging the Zlatan drum for years. He'll bag 20+ league goals this year.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 8:49 pm

Hero wrote:He's really struggling to adapt to the Premier league isn't he!

Fine! I'll put him in my Arsenal/Man United combo team Wink

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 9:09 pm

That was just silly

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Post by Ent on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 9:11 pm

Odds on the hat trick?

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 9:25 pm

West Ham vice-chairman Karren Brady tells Trevor Sinclair that "it's our ambition to win the league, that's what we're here for".

Watch out, world. We've just drawn to a team in Romania, now we want the title

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Post by Hero on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 9:58 pm

Pogba certainly added a more direct attacking impetus to the team, add to that the height of a number of the players for set pieces and it's looking for a much more promising season ahead. Bailly though once again just looks born for the Premier League.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 9:59 pm

Efficient again for United. Pogba just brings such mobility, something the side has lacked in the midfield for years.

Southampton? Worryingly poor. Not threatening on the ball, didnt look like they wanted to do the hard part of winning it back either.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 10:05 pm

Things look good for United though. Not been forced out of their comfort zone and winning with ease. Players settling quickly. Bailly looking good, which must be huge for his confidence considering the fee, his age and the new league.

Ominous

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Post by Just John on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 10:38 pm

Southampton's bubble was going to burst sooner, rather than later. It's just how far they drop, will it be to mid-table or will it be more severe? Without some investment to replace Mane or Pelle, I'd say it will be the latter. I see Puel thinks he can turn Redmond into the next Henry. I'd advise him to ditch that idea with immediate effect

Pogba looked classy & Bailly looks sensational. Worrying for Smalling & Rashford though.


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Post by Ent on Sat 20 Aug 2016, 12:44 pm

Rashford will play cups and European games I imagine.

I can see the guardiola experiment going wrong in the pl, I'm not sure high press and leaving your wings exposed will prove successful.

They'll probably win easily after I've said that.

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Post by Ent on Sat 20 Aug 2016, 12:56 pm

Complete and utter nonsense that decision.

Otamendi was holding shawcross too.


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Post by Just John on Sat 20 Aug 2016, 12:57 pm

Shawcross still hasn't learnt. 1-0 to City - Aguero

As for Cabellero's distribution, it has been awful

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Post by Ent on Sat 20 Aug 2016, 1:00 pm

They were both holding, terrible refereeing - well have several penalties in every game if that's the standard set.

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Post by Just John on Sat 20 Aug 2016, 1:05 pm

Stoke 0-2 Man City - Aguero

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Post by Ent on Sat 20 Aug 2016, 1:06 pm

Free header, shocking defending.

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Post by Ent on Sat 20 Aug 2016, 1:08 pm

That's a blatant penalty.

What a crap referee we have today.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sat 20 Aug 2016, 1:21 pm

With all due respect it was a penalty..He stopped Otamendi from jumping..

You can argue that those don't tend to be given but it was a penalty..

Great header from Aguero too...Hard to defend those..

Utd were class yesterday and City are today..

Credit where it's due.




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Post by Ent on Sat 20 Aug 2016, 1:57 pm

Well that was another farcical penalty, worse than the first if possible.

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Post by GSC on Sat 20 Aug 2016, 2:01 pm

Navas is proper crap
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Post by Ent on Sat 20 Aug 2016, 2:04 pm

Think guardiola will need to review his approach, the players he has aren't good enough to monopolise possession in the way he wants but they can be devastating and incisive if let off the leash.

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Post by GSC on Sat 20 Aug 2016, 2:07 pm

I think he'll probably look at it as his 3rd competitive game in charge after a shortened preseason and not overreact
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Post by Ent on Sat 20 Aug 2016, 2:09 pm

Don't think his players are magically going to get better at retaining the ball.

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Post by GSC on Sat 20 Aug 2016, 2:10 pm

Suspect they will when Gundogan comes back and they've further gelled as a unit.
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Post by Ent on Sat 20 Aug 2016, 2:13 pm

If gundogan can stay fit.

Those fullbacks, navas, sterling and nolito are never going to be able to do what he wants.

Think they've hit it straight out of play more times today than barca or Bayern did in a season under him.

Ent

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Post by Ent on Sat 20 Aug 2016, 2:14 pm

Good ball from silva and very composed from ihenacho there.

Came from his direct running initially.

Ent

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