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GGG v Brook - Can anybody make a case for Brook ??

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Mon 15 Aug 2016, 11:53 am

First topic message reminder :

I'm seeing a welterweight who isn't lightning fast and doesn't carry huge power at 147.....A welterweight that isn't the most defensively efficient and a guy that went life and death with the ordinary Jones and narrowly outpointed the rugged but decent Shawn Porter...Moving up two weights to fight the best fighter in the sport......(Brook has improved but his weaknesses remain)

Hearn's only line of spin seems to be that both are the best in their divisions and Brook will be better at middle... which like I wrote on an earlier thread makes one wonder why he's never campaigned at 154 ???.....If he's not as good at welter why campaign there ??......

Of course in the last 30 or so years there have been admirable efforts from welters to claim the middle by jumping two divisions and avoiding 154...........Nunn v Starling being one.......A very good performance by Marlon against a great middle.......But Starling had one of the best defences the game has ever seen and Nunn wasn't really a pressure fighter........Nunn won a majority but it was close !!!

I see a lot of Azumah Nelson in GGG.........one of these fighters who appears to be all over you even when he isn't......He'll make you work three minutes a round while every so often banging in some hurtful and wearing combinations.....Decent speed....Accuracy...Great footwork....Good tank and defensively sound........

Like Nelson he's a master craftsman.............

For me any advantages Brook has are negated at the higher weight...He's hitting bigger men and the extra weight will slow him down...

Yes these guys are both the best in their divisions but it is "13 pounds" and GGG to me is the better fighter anyway.....If we are talking two weight classes and the same poundage (bar 1 pound)....Would anyone have wanted to see Ward v Canelo at 168 ???


I can't see a good fight but I've been wrong plenty of times..

If anyone can make a case for Brook I'd love to hear it ......Maybe even convince me to buy it because the jury is out on that one..

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 11:07 am

The fight makes sense for Golovkin in the sense that he has five potential British opponents in Saunders, Eubank Jnr, Degale, Groves and Smith so getting his name out there makes those fights even bigger. The most likely person to face him out of them is the one he's least likely to want to face and that's Degale, he might win but he won't look good doing it.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 11:12 am

Thing with Golovkin though Truss is that he never takes much punishment in his fights no one has been able to open up on him yet, who knows he maybe one of those who can go on till he's forty or more with sports science maybe it's going to become more normal for fighters to go on longer we've already seen Mayweather and Hopkins in recent years

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 11:14 am

He isn't beating Degale in 18 months time....Or Groves if he stays unbeaten.

Not at 36.....In my humble opinion.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 11:22 am

Yeah but will DeGale beat Ramirez after he's got past Jack?

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Post by AdamT on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 11:22 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:People tend to forget Golovkin's age......34/35.......He's at a time when elite athletes are on the slide.....

Your body ages and despite nutrition and scientific training......Your body needs time to recover....You can't hold back Father time..

It's why soccer players in their thirties don't sell for beans...Van Persie 32 sold to Fenerbache for £3.8 million was it last year ??...because of his age....

Ticker isn't what it was...You become injury prone..reflexes are slower..

Larry Holmes (35) said after Spinks..."I saw the openings but my body was too slow to take advantage..."

Spinks knew it was time for Holmes...Just as Leonard knew it was time for Hagler (32)......Robinson started to lose regularly in his mid thirties....

Canelo, BJS, Eubank....Have time on their side....and they know it..

Golovkin doesn't !!....Worth remembering that..


This is sadly true. The guy isn't that much younger than Manny Pacquaio, or Floyd Mayweather. Sometimes it is easy to forget GGG is in his mid 30's.

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Post by milkyboy on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 11:28 am

It's not down to whether the other middleweights have the nads to fight him. It's their management/promotion team trying to maximise their career earnings.

If Golovkin was american, they'd be queuing up to fight him for mega bucks. Is Rigondeaux any duller to watch than mayweather? Same argument. If you're the co-chairmen of the who needs them club its tough to get fights unless you sell yourself really short. In Rigondeaux's case he generates so little interest that even fighting for free there's not enough in it to mitigate the risk. In Golovkin's case, it's a little different, but why should he take a financial hit?

I don't blame the guy at all, it is what it is, but his team are chasing the dollar for their guy. That's their job. It's the lack of regulation in boxing that is the route of all this. No-one is in the game for altruistic reasons.

It would be marvelous if Golovkin said. I'm a rich enough man - I'll fight alvarez for nothing to prove a point. Actually, I think the kudos/publiciity this would get him, might well pay back in the long term - but he's mid 30's, he and his team are looking at the here and now.  As fans we want fighters to chase legacy, they'd like that too - but first they want to feed their kids/buy their bling.

The only thing that's bugged me about team golovkin in the past has been their 'we'll fight anyone from 154-168' spiel. Not the man himself just the team getting his name out... and then in discussions with Ward, talking catchweights and whinging that Ward doesn't make money. Ie, the same arguments thrown by otheres to avoid their man. You can argue that ward wasn't serious, but team golovkin weren't interested because they had more lucrative options they were chasing in the short-term -  a piece of the big alvarez pie. I re-iterate, it's the team not the man - prioritising their guys career earnings. I'm sure he'll fight anyone they put in front of him.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 11:59 am

Herman Jaeger wrote:Thing with Golovkin though Truss is that he never takes much punishment in his fights no one has been able to open up on him yet, who knows he maybe one of those who can go on till he's forty or more with sports science maybe it's going to become more normal for fighters to go on longer we've already seen Mayweather and Hopkins in recent years

When I was younger I used to work bodyparts every 5 days........Then I couldn't recover in time so it was every week......Used to take 1 minute between sets and that became 2.......It's the aging process.....

Golovkin is so good and the opposition so crap he's getting away with it.......but he is only going to get slower and the tank emptier and sooner or later it will bring him down to the level required for a inferior fighter to beat him..

You've heard the phrase "He got old overnight"..

Leonard was dazzlingly fast and had a great engine back in his heyday......He was 34/35 like GGG when Norris completely hammered him by 16 points on one card.....

Huge difference between the 30 yr old that fought Hagler and the 34 year old that fought Norris..


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Post by Herman Jaeger on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 12:09 pm

Leonard had had five years out though remember

Was that the aging process in your case Truss or was it just you'd stopped juicing? Cool

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 12:15 pm

Herman Jaeger wrote:Leonard had had five years out though remember

Was that the aging process in your case Truss or was it just you'd stopped juicing? Cool

If you want to think GGG is at his physical peak at 34/35..........Then believe it...


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Post by Herman Jaeger on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 12:19 pm

Maybe he can beat the rest at just 90%?

Maybe at 40 he can beat the rest at 75%?

Punch is the last thing that ever goes Cool

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 12:23 pm

Herman Jaeger wrote:Leonard had had five years out though remember

Was that the aging process in your case Truss or was it just you'd stopped juicing? Cool

And then beat the P4P number 1 Hagler... Rolling Eyes

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 12:27 pm

Super fight brings out super levels of adrenaline

Then reality kicked in...

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Post by milkyboy on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 12:30 pm

Fighters fight less, have scientific training regimes and of course some of them have chemical help. So guys are fighting longer.  They all slow down a little though, and its the smart cagey guys who seem to adapt best to the aging process. I think Golovkin has a few years in him, but like all top class sport, it's small margins. Golovkin relies on that great footwork to keep on top of guys 3 minutes a round... there'll come a day where either he can't cut the ring off like he did it... or can;t do it for long enough to maintain that suffocating pressure his game relies on.

He'll still have great fundamentals, but the chinks will show. He's not that hard to hit - at the moment it doesn't seem to matter - he just walks through punches and fires back. When he can't do that, will he be able to spoil and slip like hopkins and mayweather?

I think all of us hope we get to see him in some genuinely great fights while he's still at the top

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 12:39 pm

Good post milky and yes it's the cagey boxers who can last longer but you rarely see him hit flush makes me think there's a few years left

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Post by Guest on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 12:52 pm

Anyway boys, enough of this, time to pin your colours to the mast...

Pains me to say but...GGG by mid-late stoppage (but would be f*cking delighted if Kell did the business. Really like both fighters and am both happy and sad this fight is taking place).

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Post by milkyboy on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 1:14 pm

I watched the stevens and geale fights again recently, Hermy. They each had little pockets of success, and both landed fairly cleanly on him. Geale is used to that having no effect on his opponents, but it just doesn't seem to stop Golovkin relentlessly firing back straightaway. I think that breaks the opponents will, as much as what he dishes out. You don't get a break.

Against lemieux, where he obviously respected his power, he fought a much more measured fight behind the jab, and softened him up that way.

Dave, Golovkin to target the body and win inside 6

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 1:30 pm

Herman Jaeger wrote:Good post milky and yes it's the cagey boxers who can last longer but you rarely see him hit flush makes me think there's a few years left

No elite physical athletes are the same in their mid 30s.....Athletes, Tennis players, Footballers, Soccer players, Basketball players..Average age for an NBA player to retire is 34...

You're not at your peak...But if you are so much better then it doesn't apply..

Sampras didn't win a major in his 30s....Federer is past it.....Nadal has gone.......Charles Barkley won his last player of the year award at 30...

Reflexes and energy levels drop......




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Post by Herman Jaeger on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 1:50 pm

Truss tell me something I don't know...

Nobody is saying people don't decline with age just that in this era of advanced sports science, 40 is no longer an outlandish age to be performing well at the sport of boxing. Unusual yes but not outlandish.

Talking of tennis let's hope Andy Murray can win 5 or 6 Wimbledons and cement his place as a true great. Only one man standing in his way in that Raonic or Kyrgios won't reach their peaks for a few years yet

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 1:58 pm

DAVE667 wrote:Anyway boys, enough of this, time to pin your colours to the mast...

Pains me to say but...GGG by mid-late stoppage (but would be f*cking delighted if Kell did the business. Really like both fighters and am both happy and sad this fight is taking place).

I thought it would be sooner like Geale in three.........

But I don't think GGG looks happy or healthy......

Could be a bit more competitive than I first thought....

GGG in 5/6..

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Post by EX7EY on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 1:59 pm

Watching the weigh in. Brook actually looks in top shape in my opinion.

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Post by EX7EY on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 2:02 pm

Sack it, Im sticking a score on Brook Very Happy

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 2:08 pm

He's in superb shape but he always is, GGG does look a little bit drawn to be honest but it won't make any difference to the outcome.

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Post by owen10ozzy on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 2:19 pm

No media by GGG again today, Sanchez saying he just wants Brook to have his moment in the sun...however I think I am now (having firmly been against the idea) going to have to jump on the bandwagon that says GGG is seemingly out of sorts. Didn't look as full on the upper torso or across the shoulders as he has done fights previous..in terms of muscle definition. Is he ill? Has he got the weight wrong...if its one of them you'd have to think its likely the former.

I'll be checking the odds and seeing how far out I can get Brook by late stoppage...definitely worth a punt if the Kazahk is indeed feeling under the weather..

However having let my heart rule my head far too often in predicting fights I am on here going to go for Golovkin in round 7....can then put all this pre fight stuff down to Hearn having a quite word with team GGG and getting them to feign injury in order to perk interest and drive PPV's ....

*last bit was a tribute to Strongy's pure hatred of the Hearn promotion train*

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Post by mobilemaster8 on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 2:21 pm

Brooks legs are MASSIVE!!! Both look calm and composed. Should be a good fight.

Roll on tomorrow. Same as Dave on this...like both fighters.....wanted Brook to clean out 147 and GGG to batter Canelo.

If people run away and don't want fight or you become too big for the weight then this is what we get. Hoping its competitive, going for GGG 6-8.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 2:24 pm

You don't get a gaunt face like Golovkin's by feigning.....

Looked at a picture of GGG v Monroe.....Full face and a beaming smile...

Body language doesn't win fights but Brook should take a little comfort..

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Post by mobilemaster8 on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 2:24 pm

GGG looks like he has either just woken up or is suffering with AIDS!! Looks bloody awful in the face eyes appear glazed.

Maybe he is just that relaxed...but reminds me of how he looked against Rosado and I believe he had a virus or something in fight week but fought anyway.

Maybe worth a tenner on brook

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Post by Guest on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 2:26 pm

I wonder if Brook can actually do a SRL, namely, keep in the fight with his boxing and, by virtue of not getting annihilated like people assume he will, make us (and more importantly the judges) think he's doing better than maybe he actually is.

How would it be if, having built GGG up as this dominant wrecking machine, on perhaps the biggest platform of his career to date, he gives us a very flat performance?

Then again, maybe he's simply going to look like he's struggling to try in order to entice Canelo into a fight.

These any many more (stupid) questions will be answered in the fullness of time.

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Post by EX7EY on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 2:30 pm

I'm just not sure anymore. Head says Golovkin but kell looks genuinely confident and he looks in great condition. He definitely doesnt look like a welterweight going up to middle.

The big question I keep asking is if WW has been such a chore for Brook which is what they are making out why has he been campaigning there for so long? Maybe his career as a Welter was coming to its end anyway and they were plotting to move up to LM, and when this opportunity arose they just thought it was too good to turn down so jumped in right at the very deep end. It's all I can think. Because it's either that or it is 100% about the money, in my opinion. But again, Kell looks like a man full of confidence.

One thing Im almost certain of, no matter what happens tomorrow we won't see Kell fight at WW again.

Im putting myself out there, Kell Brook by MD.

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Post by kingraf on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 2:38 pm

kingraf wrote:I was gonna make a case.... but then I realised it starts and ends with he looks good at the weight.

I just wanna clarify that the market for backing Brook based on nothing more than how good he looked at the weight is already cornered. bazzstards
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Post by superflyweight on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 2:47 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You don't get a gaunt face like Golovkin's by feigning.....

Looked at a picture of GGG v Monroe.....Full face and a beaming smile...

Body language doesn't win fights but Brook should take a little comfort..

Out of interest - did you compare against the Monroe weigh in or the Monroe fight? Golovkin's appearance looks like nothing that a good meal, plenty of fluid and a decent night's sleep won't fix.

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Post by Guest on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 2:54 pm

EX7EY wrote:I'm just not sure anymore. Head says Golovkin but kell looks genuinely confident and he looks in great condition. He definitely doesnt look like a welterweight going up to middle.

The big question I keep asking is if WW has been such a chore for Brook which is what they are making out why has he been campaigning there for so long? Maybe his career as a Welter was coming to its end anyway and they were plotting to move up to LM, and when this opportunity arose they just thought it was too good to turn down so jumped in right at the very deep end. It's all I can think. Because it's either that or it is 100% about the money, in my opinion. But again, Kell looks like a man full of confidence.

One thing Im almost certain of, no matter what happens tomorrow we won't see Kell fight at WW again.

Im putting myself out there, Kell Brook by MD.
Easy, there have been plenty of potential big money fights for the last couple of years. Just unfortunate that for the longest time, whilst Brook's had the ability to beat the best in the division, he's not had the fancy bauble, stellar name or crowd pulling power to make it worthwhile for any of the bigger names.

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Post by milkyboy on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 3:13 pm

mobilemaster8 wrote:Brooks legs are MASSIVE!!! Both look calm and composed.

Now I know that not only are brook's legs massive, but both left and right legs look calm and composed, I'm altering my prediction from ggg in 6 to brook ko1. Massive, calm and controlled legs are going to be the key differentiator here.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 3:19 pm

superflyweight wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You don't get a gaunt face like Golovkin's by feigning.....

Looked at a picture of GGG v Monroe.....Full face and a beaming smile...

Body language doesn't win fights but Brook should take a little comfort..

Out of interest - did you compare against the Monroe weigh in or the Monroe fight?  Golovkin's appearance looks like nothing that a good meal, plenty of fluid and a decent night's sleep won't fix.  

Weigh in pictures of Brook and Monroe ........Gaunt and no beaming smile.....He doesn't look well..

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Post by Guest on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 3:35 pm

Sanchez says the GGG no-show afterwards was to give Brook his time in the spotlight. Would suggest they don't make a habit of waging psychological warfare cos they're, quite frankly, sh!t at it. If GGG wants to genuinely be a global superstar then he needs to be out in front of the camera as much as possible. Yes, the media circus can be a ball-ache but he's certainly likeable enough for people to warm to him yet with the in-ring persona to also attract a very big following. Say what you like about boxing's popularity in the USA but the UK is also very large (if not always well informed/clued-up) market and to distance yourself from it on the eve of such a big fights does GGG and his team a bit of a dis-service.

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Post by kingraf on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 3:36 pm

milkyboy wrote:
mobilemaster8 wrote:Brooks legs are MASSIVE!!! Both look calm and composed.

Now I know that not only are brook's legs massive, but both left and right legs look calm and composed, I'm altering my prediction from ggg in 6 to brook ko1. Massive, calm and controlled legs are going to be the key differentiator here.

You laugh but helping out a hospital once, I had a patient who fell on me because his left leg spasmed and broke his hip essentially. Do not underestimate the importance of calm and steady legs
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Post by Guest on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 3:38 pm

kingraf wrote:
milkyboy wrote:
mobilemaster8 wrote:Brooks legs are MASSIVE!!! Both look calm and composed.

Now I know that not only are brook's legs massive, but both left and right legs look calm and composed, I'm altering my prediction from ggg in 6 to brook ko1. Massive, calm and controlled legs are going to be the key differentiator here.

You laugh but helping out a hospital once, I had a patient who fell on me because his left leg spasmed and broke his hip essentially. Do not underestimate the importance of calm and steady legs
Agreed, look at Hearns' leg massage for the Hagler fight and how Manny flipped his f*cking lid over it.

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Post by Guest on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 3:58 pm

Right, home time...enjoy the fight, gents. Good luck to both fighters and here's hoping we get one hell of a fight on Saturday night.

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Post by milkyboy on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 4:16 pm

kingraf wrote:
milkyboy wrote:
mobilemaster8 wrote:Brooks legs are MASSIVE!!! Both look calm and composed.

Now I know that not only are brook's legs massive, but both left and right legs look calm and composed, I'm altering my prediction from ggg in 6 to brook ko1. Massive, calm and controlled legs are going to be the key differentiator here.

You laugh but helping out a hospital once, I had a patient who fell on me because his left leg spasmed and broke his hip essentially. Do not underestimate the importance of calm and steady legs

Absolutely raf... That's why I was relieved to hear moby state that both legs were massive, calm and assured. Had it just been the one, I'd be worried.

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Post by milkyboy on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 4:17 pm

DAVE667 wrote:
kingraf wrote:
milkyboy wrote:
mobilemaster8 wrote:Brooks legs are MASSIVE!!! Both look calm and composed.

Now I know that not only are brook's legs massive, but both left and right legs look calm and composed, I'm altering my prediction from ggg in 6 to brook ko1. Massive, calm and controlled legs are going to be the key differentiator here.

You laugh but helping out a hospital once, I had a patient who fell on me because his left leg spasmed and broke his hip essentially. Do not underestimate the importance of calm and steady legs
Agreed, look at Hearns' leg massage for the Hagler fight and how Manny flipped his f*cking lid over it.

With the leg massage and broken hand, Tommy did well to make it to round 3

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Post by kingraf on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 4:23 pm

milkyboy wrote:
kingraf wrote:
milkyboy wrote:
mobilemaster8 wrote:Brooks legs are MASSIVE!!! Both look calm and composed.

Now I know that not only are brook's legs massive, but both left and right legs look calm and composed, I'm altering my prediction from ggg in 6 to brook ko1. Massive, calm and controlled legs are going to be the key differentiator here.

You laugh but helping out a hospital once, I had a patient who fell on me because his left leg spasmed and broke his hip essentially. Do not underestimate the importance of calm and steady legs

Absolutely raf... That's why I was relieved to hear moby state that both legs were massive, calm and assured. Had it just been the one, I'd be worried.
It's going to be blow out on account of Brook's quads and calves!!
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raf
raf

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Post by melv500 on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 4:51 pm

GGG looked out of sorts. I really do think 6 days for a 7 hour time difference is not enough do could be lack of sleep or bad sleep pattern. Anyway don't think it's enough to give Brook the edge so going GGG in the 6th. Hope I'm wring, c'mon Kell!!!

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Post by milkyboy on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 4:57 pm

kingraf wrote:
milkyboy wrote:
kingraf wrote:
milkyboy wrote:
mobilemaster8 wrote:Brooks legs are MASSIVE!!! Both look calm and composed.

Now I know that not only are brook's legs massive, but both left and right legs look calm and composed, I'm altering my prediction from ggg in 6 to brook ko1. Massive, calm and controlled legs are going to be the key differentiator here.

You laugh but helping out a hospital once, I had a patient who fell on me because his left leg spasmed and broke his hip essentially. Do not underestimate the importance of calm and steady legs

Absolutely raf... That's why I was relieved to hear moby state that both legs were massive, calm and assured. Had it just been the one, I'd be worried.
It's going to be blow out on account of Brook's quads and calves!!

Exactly raf. All these muppets predicting a golovkin KO... only the sharpest minds of 606 can see the real differentiator. Brook could be like Froch... and become a massive legged international superstar

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 5:31 pm

I'm buying this one just to see Carl's new beak

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Post by Steffan on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 5:33 pm

I was gonna watch this down the Loch Inn and cheer on Golovkin with everyone else (although I respect Brook for taking this fight) but now have a bout of flu. Ah well I'll watch it on the box

TEAM GGG

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Post by milkyboy on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 6:59 pm

Herman Jaeger wrote:I'm buying this one just to see Carl's new beak

Rachel "you know I think you're gorgeous Carl?"
Carl "yes love, ruggedly handsome, movie star bad guy type"
Rachel "that's right love. But hard to imagine though it is, I think you might look even better with that nose sorted... Will you do that for me?"
Carl "oh right... The handsome Movie star good guy type?"
Rachel "exactly Carl. And while you're at it, you might as well, sort out the teeth, that Jimmy hill chin and get a touch of filler here and there. Nothing major, just a bit of fine tuning"
Carl "yeh ok love"
Rachel "you know I think you're gorgeous Carl"

At least it's clear now beyond any doubt what Rachel saw in millionaire Carl Froch.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 7:04 pm

milky, don't give up your day job

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Post by Steffan on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 7:11 pm

milkyboy wrote:At least it's clear now beyond any doubt what Rachel saw in millionaire Carl Froch
She has a slime fetish?

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Post by milkyboy on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 7:26 pm

Herman Jaeger wrote:milky, don't give up your day job

My day job as a comedy writer?

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 7:34 pm

"Rachel babe, Does this nose look good enough for a 4 time world champion that has boxed in front of 80,000 ??"

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Fri 09 Sep 2016, 8:17 pm

milkyboy wrote:
Herman Jaeger wrote:milky, don't give up your day job

My day job as a comedy writer?


milky, if I was Rachel I'd be more concerned about his hair than his nose

have you seen it, is he going through some sort of crisis

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