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Hector Camacho - The one and only......

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Hector Camacho - The one and only...... Empty Hector Camacho - The one and only......

Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 24 Aug 2016, 9:37 pm

"I was happy I got knocked down against Davis.....But I only like to get happy once in a while"

"I was warming up in the dressing room before Rosario when my Mum and Dad started having a domestic......."You're a no good this...a no good that"....I said "Excuse me guys you know I've got a fight in a minute don't you !!"

"I saw Bramble at the Hagler-Hearns fight...I said you've been talking macho about me and there can be only one macho man"...."I said are we staying here or going into the parking lot right now !!"...

Marty Cohen manager.... "I said to Hector you've got Boza Edwards in a couple of days time you need sleep......I knew he wouldn't listen and would go into the hotel casino till early in the morning...So I took all his clothes and locked him in his hotel room......Next thing I know I see him walking naked into the hotel elevator....."

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Simply the best junior lightweight I've ever seen ....Would have beaten Chavez in my opinion....A three weight world champion and for me an ATG.....

Beat Pazienza before he went on to win multiple titles.......Beat Ramirez before he won the title again.....Beat Rosario before he won the title again.........Limon....Mancini....Haugen.....Davis jr.......Leonard....

Fought.... Chavez......Oscar...Trinidad...........Was never stopped in a 79-6-3 career


Handsome...Charismatic.....Lightning fast..Naughty......Flawed.......but never dull !!!.........That was a crime....

Broke the mould........with Hector "Macho" Camacho.......

Rest in peace..

TRUSSMAN66

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Post by hazharrison on Wed 24 Aug 2016, 11:41 pm

From the blog The Cruelest Sport:

SOMETHING WILD: The Night Hector “Macho” Camacho Lost His Mojo

by Carlos Acevedo

****

Emerging from the slashing switchblade streets of 1970s Spanish Harlem—not a neighborhood listed in Baedeker—Hector Camacho was one of the brightest young stars of the 1980s. Breathtakingly fast—like a shot from a Widowmaker—this gifted southpaw was all dashing streetpunk flash. Before mirrorball after mirrorball called his number and the yayo refused to let him go, Camacho was considered a lock for true ring greatness. It never happened. Stalled by party hats, battles with promotional fat cats, and a never-ending case of the continental NYPD blues, Camacho was headline news and earned millions, but he never came close to reaching his limitless potential.

****

By 1986, Edwin Rosario was thought to be on the downside. Injuries, a suspect chin, and a recently-developed seek-and-destroy style all conspired to hold “Chapo” back. Stopped by Jose Luis Ramirez in a savage brawl in 1984, Rosario, once dubbed “The Roberto Duran of the 1980s,” had since struggled to outpoint Frankie Randall to earn another shot at the lightweight title. And Hector “Macho” Camacho, in the first defense of his lightweight title, was expected to send Rosario back to Puerto Rico, where he could doze on a beach beneath the wide brim of a straw hat and drown away defeat with a few cans of Cerveza Medalla.

Unfortunately for Camacho, it was Friday the 13th.

Over 10,000 fans gathered at Madison Square Garden to see this Battle of the Boricuas. Camacho, 30-0 and the gaudiest personality of his day, entered the ring to his own theme song—horrifying electro-funk kitsch—and a glittering Puerto Rican robe said to have cost $8,000. That was a hell of a lot of lettuce in those days. But Camacho spared no expense when it came to playing street punk Falstaff for his not-so-adoring public. Certainly, the stunt he pulled on Rosario before the fight required not only cash but a dash of lewd imagination.

From World Boxing:


“I went to Gimbel’s and bought a pair of ladies’ panties for Rosario. They were red, brief and lacy. The sales lady looked at me like I was weird.” Camacho placed the undergarment in a box along with his autograph and a red rose, and sent it to Rosario’s room at the Penta Hotel, across the street from the Garden. On the card attached to the box he wrote, “Couldn’t make it, wish you the best,” signed Rafael Hernandez Colon (who is the governor of Puerto Rico). “That made him fight harder,” Camacho said in the understatement of the year.

After dancing in the ring and exhorting his seven-year-old son, Hector Jr., to flurry for the crowd, Camacho was ready to fight. A stylish Camacho boxed his way to an early lead into the fifth round, when Rosario cracked him with a left hook that had “The Macho Man” holding as if he were on the Copacabana dance floor. Rosario struck again in the 11th, rocking Camacho with a hard right and firing heavy shots from every conceivable angle while Camacho sagged against the ropes. Between these two rocky moments, however, Camacho boxed, ran, held, and occasionally opened up with blistering combinations from his southpaw stance. At the end of 12 give-and-take rounds, Camacho came away with a split decision, the echoing sound of thunderous boos, and a sudden blood simple outlook on the sweet science.

“If I fight him again,” growled Camacho the next morning, “I want a million dollars. If I’m going to come out looking like a Cabbage Patch doll, I want to get paid for it.”

Indeed, Camacho seemed stunned that his profession could be so taxing. “He hit me. Wham!! Wham!” said Camacho. “I say, Damn, it doesn’t hurt, but it sure feels funny. Wham!! Damn, I fought a war and I can tell you right now, Hector Camacho don’t like no damn wars.”

Camacho would prove that point emphatically over the next 20 years, one of the longest free-falls in boxing history. And it was Rosario, the jibaro with fists as hard as coconuts, who took away the Camacho strut. Only 24, Camacho was never the same fighter again. Incredibly, even Camacho himself admitted it, years later, in an interview with KO: “I don’t know. Maybe he made a p*ssy out of me. Maybe I went to more defense. I don’t know.”

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Post by hazharrison on Thu 25 Aug 2016, 12:00 am

You missed racist!

Considering Rosario knocked the starch out of Camacho at lightweight and Chavez absolutely tanned Rosario, struggling to see how HMC could have contended with JCC at 130 (especially considering how easily Chavez dealt with him at 140 - Chavez was possibly better at super feather).

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Thu 25 Aug 2016, 12:05 am

Considering Curry Beat Starling and Honey beat Curry struggling to see how Starling could have contended with Honey... Wink

Camacho at 130 had the fastest hands I've ever seen....except perhaps Meldrick Taylor ..

Watch him fight at 130....and then come back..

Camacho beat Rosario...

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Post by hazharrison on Thu 25 Aug 2016, 6:43 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Considering Curry Beat Starling and Honey beat Curry struggling to see how Starling could have contended with Honey... Wink

Camacho at 130 had the fastest hands I've ever seen....except perhaps Meldrick Taylor ..

Watch him fight at 130....and then come back..

Camacho beat Rosario...

He won a SD but was booed in the process and was forever tamed. Seen Camacho plenty - Chavez would always have beaten him in my book. The fight may have been closer, with HC winning the early rounds but once he started taking those body shots, he'd have been on his bike and running for his life. Chavez by narrower UD.

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Post by milkyboy on Thu 25 Aug 2016, 7:54 am

Camacho definitely got on his bike post rosario. He regularly stank the place out, which is why he's in the all time great talent rather than atg  fighter category for me, truss. Sadly there was never a dull moment except in the ring.

Chavez at super-feather would have been interesting though. Despite his lengthy spell there in his youth I always thought Chavez peaked at lightweight. He was pushed very hard by la Porte and lockridge ( with excuses for both as usual for JCC)  later in his super-feather reign. No shame in that, but suggestive that there were a few chinks.

Camacho too was a young man at super-feather and only had a few title fights there, But he'd have gone into a fight with Chavez unbeaten and full of confidence.

From what we know of the two fighters, the likeliest scenario for me is that we get a similar fight to Camacho Chavez... With Camacho put on his bike and staying there at some point. Doesn't mean he couldn't  have won it that way though. I'd err to Chavez but it's a close call and certainly I'd expect it to have been more competitive than their actual fight years later.

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Post by AdamT on Thu 25 Aug 2016, 10:01 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:"I was happy I got knocked down against Davis.....But I only like to get happy once in a while"

"I was warming up in the dressing room before Rosario when my Mum and Dad started having a domestic......."You're a no good this...a no good that"....I said "Excuse me guys you know I've got a fight in a minute don't you !!"

"I saw Bramble at the Hagler-Hearns fight...I said you've been talking macho about me and there can be only one macho man"...."I said are we staying here or going into the parking lot right now !!"...

Marty Cohen manager.... "I said to Hector you've got Boza Edwards in a couple of days time you need sleep......I knew he wouldn't listen and would go into the hotel casino till early in the morning...So I took all his clothes and locked him in his hotel room......Next thing I know I see him walking naked into the hotel elevator....."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Simply the best junior lightweight I've ever seen ....Would have beaten Chavez in my opinion....A three weight world champion and for me an ATG.....

Beat Pazienza before he went on to win multiple titles.......Beat Ramirez before he won the title again.....Beat Rosario before he won the title again.........Limon....Mancini....Haugen.....Davis jr.......Leonard....

Fought.... Chavez......Oscar...Trinidad...........Was never stopped in a 79-6-3 career


Handsome...Charismatic.....Lightning fast..Naughty......Flawed.......but never dull !!!.........That was a crime....

Broke the mould........with Hector "Macho" Camacho.......

Rest in peace..

Great flashy fighter. Definitely a great!

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Thu 25 Aug 2016, 11:29 am

milkyboy wrote:Camacho definitely got on his bike post rosario. He regularly stank the place out, which is why he's in the all time great talent rather than atg  fighter category for me, truss. Sadly there was never a dull moment except in the ring.

Chavez at super-feather would have been interesting though. Despite his lengthy spell there in his youth I always thought Chavez peaked at lightweight. He was pushed very hard by la Porte and lockridge ( with excuses for both as usual for JCC)  later in his super-feather reign. No shame in that, but suggestive that there were a few chinks.

Camacho too was a young man at super-feather and only had a few title fights there, But he'd have gone into a fight with Chavez unbeaten and full of confidence.

From what we know of the two fighters, the likeliest scenario for me is that we get a similar fight to Camacho Chavez... With Camacho put on his bike and staying there at some point. Doesn't mean he couldn't  have won it that way though. I'd err to Chavez but it's a close call and certainly I'd expect it to have been more competitive than their actual fight years later.

It's the whole reason I mentioned 130 to be honest........Chavez admitted afterwards he wouldn't have argued if Laporte had won the decision.....Won by a point on two cards with the obligatory idiot scoring it way off for Chavez....(One judge had Chavez beating Meldrick too...Despite the shutout)

But fighters have off nights or struggle with styles which is pretty much why Rosario isn't relevant......

If he is why not just say Vernon Forrest beats everyone that lost to Mosley...

Great fight though Camacho v Rosario.....

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Post by milkyboy on Thu 25 Aug 2016, 12:52 pm

yeh it was a cracking fight... realised a typo in my post - i meant to say that camacho chavez at super feather may well have resembled camacho rosario.

Always thought el chapo was a cracking little fighter, if a little erratic - not withstanding styles and fights etc, it speaks a lot for how good JCC was that he dismantled him.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Thu 25 Aug 2016, 12:58 pm

Saw Rosario get destroyed off Ramirez on upset Saturday when I was growing up....(Think Garza was upset by Meza on the same bill)....Should have lost to Davis jr too if Boxing's biggest loser hadn't have been decked in the last round he would have got more than a draw..

Strange one Edwin....Pazienza once said "If you take his punch he's an ordinary fighter)

He wasn't ordinary of course but had some poor performances....

His tactics against Chavez were strange.......if you ever watch the fight again you hear his cornerman say at the end of the first "Don't be scared of him"

I always remember that line.....

Shame life turned out so bad for him.....RIP..

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Post by 88Chris05 on Thu 25 Aug 2016, 1:26 pm

Definitely one of those fighters that I wish I'd been able to see in their prime as it unfolded, Truss.

Hard to gauge Camacho in a lot of ways. One of those guys who straddles that small dividing line between very, very good and truly great. His record suggests the former in all probability, whereas his talent was more in the latter category. Also, if it hadn't been Rosario rocking his confidence by giving him that chin check, would something else have just prevented Camacho from realising his full potential anyway?

See, I think Camacho was an incredible physical talent with the right set of athletic gifts to take him so far - very far - in boxing, but that he wasn't much of a thinking fighter or tactician. His sheer speed and movement was enough to befuddle guys like Limon and Ramirez, who had a decent style for him to excel and shine against, but as I've said before even in the Ramirez fight you can see that Camacho relied on quite a repetitive attack and that he didn't have massive variety to his work. Nothing wrong with being able to push out a perfunctory jab to get the other guy flinching, reel off three or four super-fast shots and then circle away against guys who had two left feet, but against someone like Chavez, much better at closing the distance and smothering an opponent's speed, he'd have needed a bit more, for me, even at 130 before his confidence got shaken by 'Chapo.'

Can't agree with Haz when he suggests that Chavez was at his best at Super-Feather. Got pushed around a lot easier and didn't seem to punch with the same heavy-handedness which is shown in the Laporte and Lockridge fights. His best moments such as Rosario, Taylor, Haugen and so on came at higher weights. But even at 130 against a full-of-confidence Camacho I think he might have been able to grind out a decision, albeit Camacho would have stood a much better chance and would have made it a hell of a lot more difficult for him than he did when they eventually got it on at Light-Welter in 1992.

Oddly enough, though, I'd have backed Camacho to beat Sanchez had Sal made it to Super-Featherweight by 1983. Sanchez looked a lot less impressive when the other guy kept it long and didn't take the fight to him, and considering that Camacho went the distance with the likes of Trinidad all the way up at Welter, it's hard to see how Sanchez is going to stop him. Think I've said this before to you, Truss, but I could see Camacho, Sanchez and Chavez at Super-Feather being one of those stylistic triangles where nobody comes out clearly on top; Camacho beats Sanchez, Sanchez beats Chavez (just about every time, I think) but Chavez beats Camacho.

Anyway, great talent with an impressive CV regardless of his underachievement. If I had to err to one or the other (between very good and great) then on today's mood I'd say that Macho gets in to the great bracket by the skin of his teeth. But a huge character whose own gimmickry has probably blinded some people in retrospect to what a fighter he could be on his day.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Thu 25 Aug 2016, 1:39 pm

You have to remember that Meldrick pretty much shut Chavez out by basically blinding him with speed....Chavez was outclassed in that fight to all intent and purposes....(If only Mills Lane had refereed)...Give Chavez a 10-8 last round and I'd have had it 117-110...

Whittaker outclassed him too......Great fighter Julio but I don't think he was that smart either..

The good Captain met Frankie Randall who beat Chavez twice (if we are honest)....and he thought Chavez was pretty ordinary and thought Rosario was better...Opinions are opinions and I don't agree with Frankie..

Rosario hit harder than Chavez....Probably the biggest puncher of that decade at lightweight...The Rosario v Viruet fight was a perfect example. Destroying a real tough guy with one shot.

My opinion is Camacho was at his best at 130......He didn't have the Rosario baggage and Chavez didn't hit as hard as Rosario.......Couldn't get Pratchett and plenty of others out of there at 130....

But who knows........Certainly would have been a mouthwatering fight.......As would Sanchez v Chavez..

Anyone interested in seeing how scary Camacho's speed was.......

Watch...Camacho v Louie Burke...Poetry in motion !!




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Post by 88Chris05 on Thu 25 Aug 2016, 1:43 pm

Camacho's fight against Louie Loy has a knockdown so quick (think it's a one two as Loy comes in, the straight left down the pipe scoring the KD from memory) that you basically can't see it in normal time. Until the replay you don't even realise that Camacho hit him with a second shot. Phenomenal speed.

Along with the second knockdown in the Roy Jones versus Reggie Johnson fight, it's just about the most frightening display of hand speed you'll ever see.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Thu 25 Aug 2016, 2:37 pm

hazharrison wrote:You missed racist!

Bless old Haz he loves or he hates.....Camacho used the word "N****r" in a volley against Holmes and others so he's a racist...

Yet number 1 Fury fan Haz...Jumps to his defence on here when some posters call him a hompohobe and misogynist for making degrading comments towards gays and Women....

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Post by hazharrison on Thu 25 Aug 2016, 10:11 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
hazharrison wrote:You missed racist!  

Bless old Haz he loves or he hates.....Camacho used the word "N****r" in a volley against Holmes and others so he's a racist...

Yet number 1 Fury fan Haz...Jumps to his defence on here when some posters call him a hompohobe and misogynist for making degrading comments towards gays and Women....

He used racist epithets on numerous occasions: Holmes, Tyson, Whitaker etc. - black people in general. I don't hate Camacho - just offering some playful perspective on your gushing tribute.

I've never defended Fury's homophobic or misogynistic remarks - merely pointed out the hypocrisy of the witch hunt against him by journalists who fawned all over the likes of Tyson (Mike). Fury - by the nature of his fundamentalist religious beliefs - is a homophobe and a misogynist. Camacho was a racist. It is what it is!

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Thu 25 Aug 2016, 10:45 pm

The problem with ATG status is no one really knows what it is.....Many regard Eusebio Pedrosa as an ATG......

By any stretch if that guy is in there then Camacho is a certainty....

Limon......Ramirez.....Rosario........Haugen......Pazienza.......Mancini.....Edwards....Solis.....Unbeaten Melvin Paul (Big prospect back then)....Even chuck in a win over Leonard at a weight that suited Leonard.....

I mean Kovo fans think a 50 year old Hoppo was a good win.....

Three weight world champion to boot.....

I can understand those that think he doesn't make the grade but like I say no one really knows what the grade is..

if Pedrosa is the standard Macho more than makes the grade..

But ATG status is a subjective thing...

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Post by hazharrison on Thu 25 Aug 2016, 11:48 pm

Camacho wasn't great. Great talent but too erratic and a shadow of what he'd promised after Rosario. Leonard was dog meat when Camacho beat him - shot to pieces. Hopkins was still a tough night for the best of the rest light heavies when Kovalev beat him.

I'd say Pedroza on the other hand was a great fighter. One of the top ten feathers who ever lived (one of the original eight divisions) with the record for consecutive time tle defences (something like 19) back when there were just two belts (also recognised as lineal champ). Beat Olivares and LaPorte and it took the performance of McGuigan's life to end his tenure.

He wasn't as flashy or as fashionable as Hector - but he was a better fighter.

ATG is a term I'd reserve for a pretty exclusive bunch of fighters - Robinson, Duran, Ali, Louis, Greb, Pep etc. I wouldn't put Pedroza alongside men of that calibre.


Last edited by hazharrison on Fri 26 Aug 2016, 7:47 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 26 Aug 2016, 12:14 am

I think Camacho was great... Cool and that's good enough for me !!!

Pedroza wasn't a better fighter and there is no reasoned logic to make such a claim!! (I guess the fact you like him and don't like Hector has something to do with it..... )

Don't give me that two belt crap either...Pedroza didn't fight anybody (The other champ Sanchez fought all the decent fighters at 126)..........

Best wins :....Olivares... was past it when he fought Pedrosa and he was a better Bantamweight anyway.... Laporte... who was really just a top quality journeyman..and the decent Lockridge who'd already lost to Laporte.......

I remember watching the awful draw with Bernard Taylor.....Which is probably more than you have..

Limon....Ramirez.....Rosario and Pazienza alone means a better CV than Pedrosa..

Good night..

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Post by hazharrison on Fri 26 Aug 2016, 9:40 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I think Camacho was great... Cool and that's good enough for me !!!

Pedroza wasn't a better fighter and there is no reasoned logic to make such a claim!! (I guess the fact you like him and don't like Hector has something to do with it..... )

Don't give me that two belt crap either...Pedroza didn't fight anybody (The other champ Sanchez fought all the decent fighters at 126)..........

Best wins :....Olivares... was past it when he fought Pedrosa and he was a better Bantamweight anyway.... Laporte... who was really just a top quality journeyman..and the decent Lockridge who'd already lost to Laporte.......

I remember watching the awful draw with Bernard Taylor.....Which is probably more than you have..

Limon....Ramirez.....Rosario and Pazienza alone means a better CV than Pedrosa..

Good night..

You probably feel Don Curry was great. Maybe Michael Nunn. Fact is, none of those guys will make any of the Top 100 Fighters All Time-type lists. Camacho made the IBHOF and he was an outrageous talent but if you're picking holes in Pedroza's record, then you really need to have a look at Camacho's, too.

The three-weight champ thing is bogus: WBO was about as obscure as the IBO is today when Camacho won those straps.

Limon was a great style match-up for him: slow as all get out and on the other side of wars with the likes of Boza-Edwards and Chacon. Bazooka's record was 50-13-2 when Camacho - then 21-0 - scalped him. Usually you'd rip a guy to pieces fr a record like that!

Camacho was all over the place - esecially after the Rosario fight - when his excesses outside of the ring had an obvious impact on his explots inside it. Looked a million dollars against Limon and, stunk the place out against Rosario and Mancini.

I'd say, like fellow HOFer Naz Hamed - he was a great talent (and unbelievably tough) but only a near-great fighter.


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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 26 Aug 2016, 10:03 am

You're speculating about Curry and Nunn.....

Did Pedroza win a round against Mcguigan ??? (bet he won two at the most)....Massive one sided slap I seem to remember with naughty substances in his corner to wake him up after his constant visits to the deck....

How old was Pedrosa 31/32 ??........Should have done better than that after all he'd never really fought anybody..Unlike Sal..

Mcguigan was his best opponent.....Regardless of the aging argument he got beaten easily.....Think Mcguigan beat most of his best wins easier too........He beat Laporte and stopped Taylor...If you take Pedrosa's longevity aside........There isn't much ....like Wlad..

We aren't going to agree........So maybe move on....If you prefer Eusebio good luck to you..

By the way you wrote an article..... "Maidana win showed Floyd wasn't an ATG or top 10 whatever etc".....I'm sure most posters will remember it...It won't be too hard to find....

Floyd was 37.....Yet you give Pedrosa a pass on Mcguigan because he was past his best at 31/32 !!!..


Also you make great reference to the fact Pedrosa was a champion in an era of just two champs......Then try to chuck "Curry" at me who was one out of two also and then...THE ONLY ONE !!!! Wink

You should try to be more consistent...........I've highlighted plenty of inconsistencies on this thread alone..

but fairplay !!.. thumbsup

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Post by hazharrison on Fri 26 Aug 2016, 10:24 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You're speculating about Curry and Nunn.....

Did Pedroza win a round against Mcguigan ??? (bet he won two at the most)....Massive one sided slap I seem to remember with naughty substances in his corner to wake him up after his constant visits to the deck....

How old was Pedrosa 31/32 ??........Should have done better than that after all he'd never fought anybody..

Mcguigan was his best opponent.....Regardless of the aging argument he got beaten easily.....Think Mcguigan beat most of his best wins easier too........He beat Laporte and stopped Taylor...If you take Pedrosa's longevity aside........There isn't much ....like Wlad..

We aren't going to agree........So maybe move on....If you prefer Eusebio good luck to you..

By the way you wrote an article..... "Maidana win showed Floyd wasn't an ATG or top 10 whatever etc".....I'm sure most posters will remember it...It won't be too hard to find....

Floyd was 37.....Yet you give Pedrosa a pass on Mcguigan because he was past his best at 31/32 !!!..

You should try to be more consistent...........I've highlighted plenty of inconsistencies on this thread alone..

but fairplay !!.. thumbsup

All roads lead back to Floyd!  laughing

Fighters age in different ways - usually down to the number of hard nights they've had. Pedroza was a hard 29 against Barry Mac. A lot of 15 round fights under his belt - a lot of title defences on the road.

Anyway, made my case on HC - if you want to predictably drag everything back to Floyd then crack on!  picard

History will remember Pedroza as the better fighter.

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