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Allardyce's England

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Sun 28 Aug 2016, 7:16 pm

First topic message reminder :

Big Sam is set to announce his squad this evening, with the captaincy sorted with that. It has been revealed that he wanted to call up Steven N'Zonzi, but a performance for the France u21s put paid to that.

In an exciting list of players expected to break in the squad, all will be relieved to see that Phil Jagielka, Andros Townsend, Danny Drinkwater and Jermain Defoe look to be joining Shaw as England returnees. Or did I mean to say that list is madly depressing, bar the talented left back.

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Post by GSC Tue 27 Sep 2016, 4:41 pm

Steve Bruce is about to take charge of Derby apparently.
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Post by owen10ozzy Tue 27 Sep 2016, 5:58 pm

They won't sack him...they will find a way to excuse it, give him a bit of public dressing down and force him to come out and face the media and apologise.

Unless they have concrete evidence that he has actually took a bribe of any kind then they leave themselves open to the lawyers should they sack him, then it becomes very messy for all involved and just drags on...

Which upon reflection...means the spineless FA will force him to resign while giving him a bumper pay off to ensure he doesn't discuss his views on the governing body and walks away silently. The whole debacle shows just what a shambles our national set up is; and what's worse is they stand and criticise the likes of FIFA and UEFA while applauding themselves knowing full well they are just as corrupt and just as out of touch as the rest of them.

Best thing to do for everyone is just abolish our national team; that way we don't have to listen to the vomit inducing self praise of the FA leaders & their bright, innovative task forces which supposedly will make us a world force nor do we have to witness a shambles of a team embarrassing the nation at each major tournament before declaring that there hurting as much as everyone with their early exits...hence their swift first flights out the Bahamas two days later.

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Post by Guest Tue 27 Sep 2016, 6:05 pm

Journalist entrapment - media trying to create a story from nothing to get him sacked.  Seems like Allardyce is on a wire, the FA are making demands - he has to name a list of agents and then he has to grovel to the FA and the nation.  May as well appoint Gary Neville or Gareth Southgate.

Former FA executive Julian Eccles talking to the BBC wrote:The only way for England manager Sam Allardyce to keep his job is to apologise, give up any outside commercial interests and name those still involved in third-party ownership of players
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37487056

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Post by owen10ozzy Tue 27 Sep 2016, 6:17 pm

Like I said...spineless, snakes! It's incredible how many managers suddenly become tamed little mice once they sign that FA contract. Even those usually seen as bullish and outspoken become tepid mild mannered managers who do as they are told....

Case in point...the whole Rooney farce as soon as he was in the hot seat...one minute its a case of 'he won't be playing in midfield'...suddenly ..'he's more experience than me at this level who am I to tell him where to play'...the interviewer should have said to him 'oh really Sam...well if that's the case why are you here..might as well have given the job to Rooney...we could play 11vs1 then and he can play where he likes including rush goalie'! Idiot.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Tue 27 Sep 2016, 6:34 pm

Maybe they should sack him and appoint Owen as manager seeing as he has all the answers?
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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Tue 27 Sep 2016, 6:39 pm

I do hate journalist entrapment. Its filthy

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Post by GSC Tue 27 Sep 2016, 6:47 pm

Yeah but Owen would have to give interviews to the press after games where he calls himself poop
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Post by Crimey Tue 27 Sep 2016, 6:52 pm

To be fair lots of managers declined the undercover reporters, Allardyce was the one stupid enough to accept.

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Post by Crimey Tue 27 Sep 2016, 7:06 pm

Allardyce has resigned.

Will be reported as "mutual agreement".

Threw away his one shot for £400,000 despite being on a £3 million a year salary.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Tue 27 Sep 2016, 7:24 pm

Clean up FIFA, they shout. But Sam probably isnt that bad.

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Post by GSC Tue 27 Sep 2016, 7:34 pm

Yep gone now apparently.

He had to go, he's the most prominant employee of a multi million pound company taking bribes to circumvent their rules.
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Post by Crimey Tue 27 Sep 2016, 7:34 pm

Gareth Southgate will be in charge for the upcoming games.

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Post by Guest Tue 27 Sep 2016, 7:40 pm

Southgate will end up getting the permanent deal, another safe, in the system puppet.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Tue 27 Sep 2016, 7:41 pm

Was just gonna say he'll win a couple of those games and get the job

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Post by Crimey Tue 27 Sep 2016, 8:10 pm

Southgate doesn't want it does he though.

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Post by Fernando Tue 27 Sep 2016, 8:15 pm

If i was the FA & knew our choices were Southgate & Bruce, Id have been working to cover up Sam by now Laugh

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Post by Guest Tue 27 Sep 2016, 11:06 pm

Apparently the Telegraph are going to name about eight current and former football managers tomorrow for taking bungs in transfer dealing.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Wed 28 Sep 2016, 7:51 am

Id be surprised if they do, the legal issues would be a nightmare

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Post by Geordie Wed 28 Sep 2016, 8:50 am

I have no sympathy for Sam one bit. Hes on an £3m a year, plus £500k bonus scheme and no doubt lots of other perks...and gets involved in that!
Money most of us can only dream of!

More fool him.

The crazy thing is there will still be clubs who will happily sign him up.

The biggest issue is who becomes the new manager. Sam wasn't a great option, and neither are some of the others.


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Post by Ent Wed 28 Sep 2016, 11:04 am

Actually great to see a decent bit of investigative journalism for once.

I'm happy enough to ignore the entrapment angle, Allardyce was happy to make a dodgy quick buck out of his status and has fallen on his sword.

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Post by Hero Wed 28 Sep 2016, 11:36 am

I wouldn't even call it entrapment myself.

Entrapment is when someone is induced to commit an offense that otherwise they would been unlikely to commit.

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Post by dyrewolfe Wed 28 Sep 2016, 11:38 am

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Id be surprised if they do, the legal issues would be a nightmare

Meh - that doesn't usually stop tabloids. Bit surprised to hear the Telegraph doing it though. Actually the media in general have become more, "break story first, check facts later", over the last few years.


Geordie Falcon wrote:
I have no sympathy for Sam one bit. Hes on an £3m a year, plus £500k bonus scheme and no doubt lots of other perks...and gets involved in that!
Money most of us can only dream of!

More fool him.

The crazy thing is there will still be clubs who will happily sign him up.

The biggest issue is who becomes the new manager. Sam wasn't a great option, and neither are some of the others.

Agree its unbelievable what people in positions of authority, earning great money will do for just a bit more.

I'm disappointed as I'd really have liked to see what Sam could have done with this England squad. Really hasn't had enough time to be judged fairly.


Utterly shocked and saddened by this. How hard is it to find someone both capable and honest these days? Has to be one of the shortest reigns of any England manager.


Tells you everything you need to know about the state of the game in this country, the FA and the opportunities for young, upcoming English managers in this country.

Foreign managers would far rather sign for Premier League clubs than work with the incompetent idiots at the FA. Also, because clubs would rather bring in foreign managers than British ones, very few ever get the opportunity to work with players at the highest level.

The culture of instant success also contributes to this. Again, clubs would rather bring in proven players (also usually foreign) and are quick to fire managers if they don't look like meeting targets set by the board. I remember reading somewhere the average tenure of a top flight manager is around 18 months...utterly ridiculous.

Couple that with most top flight clubs' lack of homegrown talent and its no wonder we struggle to produce players that can compete on the world stage and competent managers that can get the best out of them.
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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Wed 28 Sep 2016, 1:30 pm

I don't like the way it was done, and this isn't investigative journalism by the way, but the FA have to react to what is there.

I feel sorry for Sam, Sam Allardyce the person. Naivety has let him down here, and the Telegraph is keeping very quiet about the parts where Sam actually shows anger at the mention of unscrupulous stuff. Nothing he's said is particularly bad.

However, as a football manager he has put his employee in a really difficult position in this climate, and he's got to deal with the consequences.

The money thing doesn't bother me - people always want more money. And I do feel sad that a man who actually sees the England job as the pinnacle has had that dream taken away. But that's just a consequence.

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Post by Scott is Back Wed 28 Sep 2016, 1:37 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:I don't like the way it was done, and this isn't investigative journalism by the way, but the FA have to react to what is there.

I feel sorry for Sam, Sam Allardyce the person. Naivety has let him down here, and the Telegraph is keeping very quiet about the parts where Sam actually shows anger at the mention of unscrupulous stuff. Nothing he's said is particularly bad.

However, as a football manager he has put his employee in a really difficult position in this climate, and he's got to deal with the consequences.

The money thing doesn't bother me - people always want more money. And I do feel sad that a man who actually sees the England job as the pinnacle has had that dream taken away. But that's just a consequence.

I have no sympathy at all = he said this was his dream job, then spunked it away for a few quid! I hope he chokes on his pint of wine the hippo headed knob!

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Wed 28 Sep 2016, 1:47 pm

Think that's a sad outlook to have, but it's yours to have

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Post by GSC Wed 28 Sep 2016, 1:54 pm

It does seem when you look at the actual quotes that its not quite as clear cut with regards to his actual behaviour.

But he has to have better judgement than that. No way the FA could retain him after that.
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Post by Scott is Back Wed 28 Sep 2016, 1:56 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Think that's a sad outlook to have, but it's yours to have

Why? He is/was paid a fortune for very little work, and then still had the arrogance to offer advice on flouting the rules of his employers for a fee?

Ok, i may not really wish him to choke to on his pint of wine, but as far as sympathy is concerned, i have zero. The fact he came out with his p!ss poor apology on SSN today, and still claimed that Entrapment won....no it didnt, your lack of brain, and greed lost!

His career is likely to be in tatters, but he will recline in his huge armchair, in his million pound house, drinking a flaggon of sauvignon blanc....and cry himself to sleep.

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Post by Preacher Wed 28 Sep 2016, 2:52 pm

Manager 1
Ex-Premier League manager allegedly liked “bungs” in cash or deposited in a Swiss bank account. Pagliara said: “I can call [X] now and all it is with [X] is ‘How much, Pino? And will it be the same Swiss bank account?’”

Manager 2
Ex-top flight manager has had “more backhanders than Wimbledon”. Pagliara said: “This is what I hate… the guy that used to need the money but he’s had so much now that all of a sudden he’s whiter than white.”

Manager 3
After managing several British clubs, he was allegedly fired by one for having “his fingers in the till”. Pagliara said he would get involved if “you understand that when we do deals I have to have a carrier bag with some cash.”

Manager 4
Pagliara said of this boss with Premier League experience: “We know him very, very well. We do a transfer, [X] has winked at us and said ‘Yeah, I want the player. Is there a little coffee for me, Pino?’ Yeah, course there is.”

Manager 5
Ex-Premier League manager who, said Pagliara, would call him and say “here’s the number”, and give him details of a Swiss account. He said: “It was always numbered accounts.”

Manager 6
A former player who now manages, he allegedly likes extra money to secure deals because he is not on a big salary at his club. Pagliara said: “[X] takes a few [inaudible] because he’s not being paid big money.”

Manager 7
Ex-Premier League manager is another “we can put on the payroll”. If a player was transferred for £10m, “we’ll turn round to [X] and say, listen, if you take this player we’ll look after you. OK? OK, boom.”

Manager 8
Agent Dax Price said this long-serving manager would pick three trusted players and tell them he was paying them an extra £8,000 per month, on condition that they paid him £4,000 per month each.

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Post by Guest Wed 28 Sep 2016, 3:50 pm

Not sure how anyone can feel sorry for Allardyce, he certainly wouldn't be sorry for anyone else. He's a pathetic figure, only interested in his own greed & you still have to be a d*ckhead open to corruption, in order to fall for it. Not surprised the media went for him, everyone knows he's as bent as nine-bob note. Shoddy appointment in the first place, so good riddance.

Imagine if Southgate was one of the eight managers Laugh. I'm guessing Joe Kinnear is one of them

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Wed 28 Sep 2016, 4:46 pm

Just John wrote:Not sure how anyone can feel sorry for Allardyce, he certainly wouldn't be sorry for anyone else. He's a pathetic figure, only interested in his own greed & you still have to be a d*ckhead open to corruption, in order to fall for it. Not surprised the media went for him, everyone knows he's as bent as nine-bob note. Shoddy appointment in the first place, so good riddance.

Imagine if Southgate was one of the eight managers Laugh. I'm guessing Joe Kinnear is one of them

All conjecture and a bit ludicrous really.


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Post by Guest Wed 28 Sep 2016, 5:32 pm

Some are saying Allardyce did absolutely nothing wrong.  He went out for a drink / meal paid for by a group of people wanting some advice and to discuss a possible advisory role for him.  They had contacted Allardyce's agent who arranged the meeting with them.  Allardyce kept saying he had to check all this with his bosses: I imagine the contract for the England Manager's job allows the England manager to spend a proportion of his time doing consultancy work.  This happens in other jobs when the job requires someone of a given expertise and experience (e.g. university lecturers and NHS medics). 

Allardyce didn't break any rules - he was just telling the fake businessmen what the situation was as is in football, not what he himself was actually doing, but what he knew others to be doing.  There are apparently loopholes that people are exploiting.  Allardyce was just telling them what people were doing.  He broke no rules.  

The Daily Telegraph journalists were just out to get Allardyce to talk and out of four hours or so of recording spun out their story to sell their newspapers.  This was a private conversation and what Allardyce said on Roy Hodgson and others he has said in essence when officially commenting.

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Post by Guest Wed 28 Sep 2016, 5:40 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Id be surprised if they do, the legal issues would be a nightmare
Yes - you were right. They didn't name anyone, just inferences from interviews with football agents.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Wed 28 Sep 2016, 5:55 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/sep/27/sam-allardyce-arrogant-clot-england-manager

Very good article, let down by the fact Taylor as a journalist has gotten properly full of himself. Allardyce's professional arrogance is frustrating but human, and whilst he wound me up, I think the bloke Allardyce, the person, away from the spin of media and character for cameras, always comes across as a relatively normal guy.

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Post by Guest Wed 28 Sep 2016, 6:21 pm

I was sort of surprised to hear that Arsene Wenger would be interested in considering the England managers job after his present contract runs out next year with Arsenal.  He says Arsenal is his first love, then next the England Managers job would be of interest to him, because second to Arsenal, he has invested his time in England and English football.  

I personally don't know what to make of the England Managers job.  I think it is a poison chalice, the expectations are too high, the players come in tired and exhausted, some are prima donnas, and one questions their motivation when they are getting paid £200,000 or more a week by their clubs.  Personally I would build a team of grafters, going down the divisions if needs be to build the team, look out for skilled creative players, look out for fast players, look out for leaders of men.  But each time you get your set of players, some will be injured, others will be jaded, others will have personal issues in their lives etc.

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Post by Guest Wed 28 Sep 2016, 6:24 pm

We've lost a manager who at domestic level has lost more games than he's won. Think we dodged a bullet...

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Post by Ent Wed 28 Sep 2016, 7:02 pm

Nore Staat wrote:I was sort of surprised to hear that Arsene Wenger would be interested in considering the England managers job after his present contract runs out next year with Arsenal.  He says Arsenal is his first love, then next the England Managers job would be of interest to him, because second to Arsenal, he has invested his time in England and English football.  

I personally don't know what to make of the England Managers job.  I think it is a poison chalice, the expectations are too high, the players come in tired and exhausted, some are prima donnas, and one questions their motivation when they are getting paid £200,000 or more a week by their clubs.  Personally I would build a team of grafters, going down the divisions if needs be to build the team, look out for skilled creative players, look out for fast players, look out for leaders of men.  But each time you get your set of players, some will be injured, others will be jaded, others will have personal issues in their lives etc.

Surely all top national sides could say this?

Doesn't stop others winning.

England managers job is hard as currently he has to try and polish a turd.

Name a genuine world class English footballer close to their prime.

Name 3 great or top class English players.

Name the 7 good/capable players to make up the rest of the team.

Do that and you have a team capable of going far in major tournaments.

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Post by Guest Wed 28 Sep 2016, 7:15 pm

Yes it is an issue associated with managing a national side, although there are factors to consider such as some leagues are more flexible in allowing the national manager access to players, some leagues have "winter breaks", some leagues are less competitive, some leagues have a greater percentage of "home" players.

But yes it is an issue associated with managing a national side, when the players you are using work for someone else, so you only have them part time, someone else is paying their wages, and they are getting more money than you are.

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Post by compelling and rich Wed 28 Sep 2016, 7:16 pm

DAVE667 wrote:We've lost a manager who at domestic level has lost more games than he's won. Think we dodged a bullet...

context.... for the clubs he has managed a win percentage of 35-40% is pretty good. for instance ignoring draws, a 40% win rate would comfortably keep you in the premier league every year

oh and he's won more than he has lost, you must be forgetting the premiership isnt the only domestic league

his record

P W D L Win %
957 374 255 328 39.1


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Post by Ent Wed 28 Sep 2016, 7:20 pm

Nore Staat wrote:Yes it is an issue associated with managing a national side, although there are factors to consider such as some leagues are more flexible in allowing the national manager access to players, some leagues have "winter breaks", some leagues are less competitive, some leagues have a greater percentage of "home" players.  

But yes it is an issue associated with managing a national side, when the players you are using work for someone else, so you only have them part time, someone else is paying their wages, and they are getting more money than you are.

Being a net importer of players would be the biggest issue I see here.

A winter breaks nice but the guys should be fit either way.

Easier to cope with half of the players in your domestic league being imports when you've players dotted all over the major leagues in Europe.

Is there any any current English player plying his trade in a major European league?

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Post by compelling and rich Wed 28 Sep 2016, 7:27 pm

dont believe in a winter break, love bit of football over Christmas  Wink Wink

but seriously its just a excuse for us underperforming. a whole season spread out over a long period or a more condensed season with a break in middle then more games at the end of the season. is it really going to mean were more fresh? everybody still plays the same amount of games

do think our league is more contrasting than other leagues, and does mean fitting players into systems is little harder than say spain for instance which the majority of the team play for two sides, both of which play similar football. added to that i think our players lack adaptability to play other systems as were all a bit formation obsessed.

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Post by Ent Wed 28 Sep 2016, 8:23 pm

Easier for Spain etc when the likes of de gea, silva, nolito, mata, fabregas etc are playing for top teams in other leagues imo.

They've a full domestic league of players then the others dotted around Europe at top clubs.

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Allardyce's England - Page 3 Empty Re: Allardyce's England

Post by Crimey Wed 28 Sep 2016, 10:01 pm

Is there any any current English player plying his trade in a major European league?

Joe Hart?

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Allardyce's England - Page 3 Empty Re: Allardyce's England

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