Warren Gatland announced as Lions coach

First topic message reminder :

Apparently, according to Ian McGeechan anyway Gatland has been given the job again.

It's the start of the end Gwlad.

Gwlad wrote:Not sure he'll ever get offered again. Not sure if i have ever heard of anyone snubbing Lions.

Interesting point.

Who is the Lord Overseer of the Lions? Is it one man in a room with no windows or is it a consensus between all the Unions involved? It might appear flippant but it actually is a serious question. I know little of the background workings of how the Lions comes together every four years and then disappears for another four? Are there dedicated people who keep the Lions office running full time or does the brand just materialise again about a year out from the tour year?

SecretFly wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Not sure he'll ever get offered again. Not sure if i have ever heard of anyone snubbing Lions.

Interesting point.

Who is the Lord Overseer of the Lions?  Is it one man in a room with no windows or is it a consensus between all the Unions involved?  It might appear flippant but it actually is a serious question.  I know little of the background workings of how the Lions comes together every four years and then disappears for another four?  Are there dedicated people who keep the Lions office running full time or does the brand just materialise again about a year out from the tour year?

I would imagine it's based in Dublin

Well there you go - thus why I know nothing about it. Dublin is full of secret handshakes and horses' heads left on pillows. Devilish place to get on in.

SecretFly wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Not sure he'll ever get offered again. Not sure if i have ever heard of anyone snubbing Lions.

Interesting point.

Who is the Lord Overseer of the Lions?  Is it one man in a room with no windows or is it a consensus between all the Unions involved?  It might appear flippant but it actually is a serious question.  I know little of the background workings of how the Lions comes together every four years and then disappears for another four?  Are there dedicated people who keep the Lions office running full time or does the brand just materialise again about a year out from the tour year?

I can't imagine the brand is dormant for 4 years at a time, its a huge institution. There must be an office that keeps things ticking along regarding media, logistics and paying Dr Robson etc. But i expect a committee is formed 2 years out (2015) that selects the coach (2016) to tour in 2017. Then he selects his team. So in effect that means the Lions is only inactive 1 year in 4.

And though i understand Gregor's commitment and know he is a highly respected coach i do think he should have accepted the offer. On the other hand i wish Wales had a coach who placed their progress so highly and wasn't using his job and his sabbaticals to try and get another job.

I always thought the Lions was run out of Ian McGeechan's box room.

But my point is that it must have a central hiring and firing being (or in other words a CEO of sorts)? If it exists all the time, surely someone must have been given a leadership role. I know I'd probably find it all out had I bothered to search it up on Google but.............. I'm lazy.

No harm done, just thought someone might know if the Lions had a main name attached to it.

Griff wrote:I always thought it was run out of Ian McGeehchan's box room.

Now you're getting close to my own past suspicions.

Griff wrote:I always thought the Lions was run out of Ian McGeechan's box room.

Yep, with little framed photos of all the previous head coaches on a dressing table. The one of SCW is turned to face the wall.

Cyril wrote:

Griff wrote:I always thought the Lions was run out of Ian McGeechan's box room.

Yep, with little framed photos of all the previous head coaches on a dressing table. The one of SCW is turned to face the wall.

At least Woodward turned up when ordered....almost bankrupted all contributing Natiions in the process ...but at least turned up for duty.

McGeechan has new fish to fry now.  Disobedience to and denigration of the Brand.  He's already plotting the torture methods to use on the three coaches who can no longer be named in the hallowed caverns of Lions HQ (Jones, Townsend, Schmidt)

Here you go chaps. Took a bit of googling. The list of directors past and present reads like a who's who of B&I rugby! Who's Thelma O'Driscoll though?! Brian's mum???

https://companycheck.co.uk/company/IE318999/BRITISH-LIONS-LIMITED/companies-house-data

Don't believe a word of that! The Lions are sustained by Bilderberg through their unofficial go-between - Alistair Campbell.

I had hopes of the Lions winning a test match, but as soon as Howley is announced as assistant coach those hopes will be gone. I mean, if the fact that Wales have not once but twice played their worst ever rugby under this guy isn't enough to show he is out of his depth then what is it going to take?

I'm assuming the position is backs coach - there's surely other personnel available? I'd take anyone over Howley who's scrap book features one of two moves:
1. Inside centre (Roberts) on the crash ball;
2. Miss-pass to outside centre (Davies) who then kicks the ball off his left boot.

I don't blame Townsend for turning it down, Schmidt either if he was offered it.

Both are international head coaches (Townsend will be), and neither would accept being under Gatland, they are at least an equal to him.

Imagine the 2018 6 nations and the psychology games Gatland would play if they worked under him, it would be Gatland lording over them like he's better.

I think maybe if a more humble coach took the head coach role it may be different, but I don't see other international head coaches accepting a role under another one anymore.

Is it true that Howley as been given assistant coach for the Lions? Surely this cannot be. How can the WRU justify Both Gatland and Howley going on the Lions tour? AGAIN.

majesticimperialman wrote:Is it true that Howley as been given assistant coach for the Lions? Surely this cannot be. How can the WRU justify Both Gatland and Howley going on the Lions tour? AGAIN.

What do they have to justify?

uncle_nigel wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:Is it true that Howley as been given assistant coach for the Lions? Surely this cannot be. How can the WRU justify Both Gatland and Howley going on the Lions tour? AGAIN.

What do they have to justify?

Losing two Head Coaches to the Lions inside of a few months? You'd have to apologise for negligence on that level

Kingshu wrote:I don't blame Townsend for turning it down, Schmidt either if he was offered it.

Both are international head coaches (Townsend will be), and neither would accept being under Gatland, they are at least an equal to him.

I am no great fan of Gatland but to describe Townsend who has achieved nothing at international level or European club level as "at least an equal of" Gatland is ridiculous. Gatland has a couple of grand slams to his name.

Why didn't Gatland ask Eddie? I'm sure Eddie would have learned a lot under his tutelage.

SecretFly wrote:Why didn't Gatland ask Eddie?  I'm sure Eddie would have learned a lot under his tutelage.

That would be an interesting conversation!

Exiledinborders wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Why didn't Gatland ask Eddie?  I'm sure Eddie would have learned a lot under his tutelage.

That would be an interesting conversation!

I'm thinking Eddie baby.

I'm assuming Eddie hasn't been asked given he and the RFU pre-emptively declared that he was busy with England.

exiled - both are coaches of a 6 nations team

TJ wrote:exiled - both are coaches of a 6 nations team

Firstly, I was responding to a comment by Kingshu that both were "at least an equal" of Gatland. Had he written that they are equals of Gatland I would not have responded.

Secondly, just being appointed to a similar post does not make someone equal to a more experienced and successful holder of that post. There have been many managers of wendyball clubs. Not many would claim to be the equal of Alex Ferguson.

TJ wrote:exiled - both are coaches of a 6 nations team

That's a little disingenuous, isn't it? Townsend has yet to take the reins for a match, whereas Gatland has been an international coach for over a decade and delivered Grand Slams and a Lions series win.

I'm a long way from being a fan of Gatland (and I am a fan of Toonie), but a rookie international coach can't really be said to be his equal, let alone more than his equal.

Exactly, Toonie is not currently the Scotland coach, he remains a club coach until next Summer so its jumping the gun a bit to put him on a level with Gatland at this stage

Poorfour wrote:I'm assuming Eddie hasn't been asked given he and the RFU pre-emptively declared that he was busy with England.

Well, would he have played second fiddle to Gats even if allowed go?
One of the National coaches is enough to be going. A touch overkill to expect three or four National coaches to head off with an army of 40 of the best players in the NH to slay one little Nation in the Pacific. It'd be bloomin' embarrassing.

SecretFly wrote:

Poorfour wrote:I'm assuming Eddie hasn't been asked given he and the RFU pre-emptively declared that he was busy with England.

Well, would he have played second fiddle to Gats even if allowed go?  
One of the National coaches is enough to be going.  A touch overkill to expect three or four National coaches to head off with an army of 40 of the best players in the NH to slay one little Nation in the Pacific.  It'd be bloomin' embarrassing.

He's played second fiddle to Jake White with the Springboks - but might not be up for that now?

I'm not entirely sure how much of this is Townsend's decision. I'd be surprised if he didn't want to tour with the lions as the attack coach. He's potentially just regurgitating the SRU's decision and passing it off as his own.

Not knowing his own thoughts this is pure speculation but it is an opinion I'm currently holding. In hindsight it might have been better to hold onto Cotter for the tour of Oz and let Townsend go with the Lions but that sounds way too sensible for me.

I think Townsend would be stupid to go on the lions tour as assistant to ahead coach whos whole ethos of playing is completely opposite to Townsend

TJ wrote:I think Townsend would be stupid to go on the lions tour as assistant to ahead coach whos whole ethos of playing is completely opposite to Townsend

That's one way to look at it I suppose.

The other is to say he can be a good influence on the said head coach to try and encourage him to play with a different attacking ethos.

If you are suggesting the decision was made because of polar opposite opinions on how to play the game, I would say to Townsend alienating yourself from the decision making and coaching process is a poor way to influence how the Lions will play.

Anyway, the Lions' loss is Scotland's gain. Townsend would have been a great attacking coach for the Lions.

Gatland is too stubborn to listen to anyone. Its why he got the bullet in Ireland years ago (with his refusal to hire a defence coach).

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

TJ wrote:I think Townsend would be stupid to go on the lions tour as assistant to ahead coach whos whole ethos of playing is completely opposite to Townsend

That's one way to look at it I suppose.

The other is to say he can be a good influence on the said head coach to try and encourage him to play with a different attacking ethos.

If you are suggesting the decision was made because of polar opposite opinions on how to play the game, I would say to Townsend alienating yourself from the decision making and coaching process is a poor way to influence how the Lions will play.

Anyway, the Lions' loss is Scotland's gain. Townsend would have been a great attacking coach for the Lions.

Don't think they would have time to sort it out. All the coaching staff would need to be on the same page before they go.

Sin é wrote:Gatland is too stubborn to listen to anyone. Its why he got the bullet in Ireland years ago (with his refusal to hire a defence coach).

His attack went pretty dull too when he ruled that O'Sullivan's backs weren't allowed have the ball.........

SecretFly wrote:

uncle_nigel wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:Is it true that Howley as been given assistant coach for the Lions? Surely this cannot be. How can the WRU justify Both Gatland and Howley going on the Lions tour? AGAIN.

What do they have to justify?

Losing two Head Coaches to the Lions inside of a few months?   You'd have to apologise for negligence on that level

So they would have to approve it rather than justify then? It's a sticky situation for me as a supporter. In the Wales set-up I want to be shot of Howley, forever, but for now on a temp basis will do. On the other hand I wouldn't want him in the Lions set-up for the sake of the 4 Nations that make up the Lions; your backs will be ruined.

uncle_nigel wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

uncle_nigel wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:Is it true that Howley as been given assistant coach for the Lions? Surely this cannot be. How can the WRU justify Both Gatland and Howley going on the Lions tour? AGAIN.

What do they have to justify?

Losing two Head Coaches to the Lions inside of a few months?   You'd have to apologise for negligence on that level

So they would have to approve it rather than justify then? It's a sticky situation for me as a supporter. In the Wales set-up I want to be shot of Howley, forever, but for now on a temp basis will do. On the other hand I wouldn't want him in the Lions set-up for the sake of the 4 Nations that make up the Lions; your backs will be ruined.

They ain't my backs. My backs wear green.

They'd be wearing red, then return to the green ruined, no skills left whatsoever... Do you have any backs as big as forwards? Howley likes them.

Oh I don't think we need to worry, nigel.... going on the mood of 606 to date I think it'll be mostly an English outfit going with Gats and a token Welsh, Irish or Scottish waterboy or two...

SecretFly wrote:Oh I don't think we need to worry, nigel.... going on the mood of 606 to date I think it'll be mostly an English outfit going with Gats and a token Welsh, Irish or Scottish waterboy or two...  

and a scottish doctor

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Oh I don't think we need to worry, nigel.... going on the mood of 606 to date I think it'll be mostly an English outfit going with Gats and a token Welsh, Irish or Scottish waterboy or two...  

and a scottish doctor

'Bout time that changed too. Are there no more doctors in the whole of the B&I nations? Why do we always roll out the same one??? Bias. That's what it is. And racism. Yeah, it's damned racist!

Griff wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Oh I don't think we need to worry, nigel.... going on the mood of 606 to date I think it'll be mostly an English outfit going with Gats and a token Welsh, Irish or Scottish waterboy or two...  

and a scottish doctor

'Bout time that changed too.  Are there no more doctors in the whole of the B&I nations?  Why do we always roll out the same one???  Bias.  That's what it is.  And racism.  Yeah, it's damned racist!

Funny how the players who come back from touring injured are never Scottish.

lostinwales wrote:

Griff wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Oh I don't think we need to worry, nigel.... going on the mood of 606 to date I think it'll be mostly an English outfit going with Gats and a token Welsh, Irish or Scottish waterboy or two...  

and a scottish doctor

'Bout time that changed too.  Are there no more doctors in the whole of the B&I nations?  Why do we always roll out the same one???  Bias.  That's what it is.  And racism.  Yeah, it's damned racist!

Funny how the players who come back from touring injured are never Scottish.

Don't you call that kinda thing the law of averages?

SecretFly wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

Griff wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Oh I don't think we need to worry, nigel.... going on the mood of 606 to date I think it'll be mostly an English outfit going with Gats and a token Welsh, Irish or Scottish waterboy or two...  

and a scottish doctor

'Bout time that changed too.  Are there no more doctors in the whole of the B&I nations?  Why do we always roll out the same one???  Bias.  That's what it is.  And racism.  Yeah, it's damned racist!

Funny how the players who come back from touring injured are never Scottish.

Don't you call that kinda thing the law of averages?

Its like how you could say Ireland, Scotland and Wales have never lost a rugby world cup final huh!

A bit like that, yeah, fa. But then of course the World is a very long time indeed thankfully - and therefore there is always hope

SecretFly wrote:A bit like that, yeah, fa.  But then of course the World is a very long time indeed thankfully - and therefore there is always hope

First team to beat NZ, AUS and SA in a calendar year since England 2003 fly and that was without many of your best players... a shame the world cup wasn't next year if you're Irish.

Played the big 5 teams 8 times this year, won 4. I think had you taken a full compliment of players it would have been 6 wins in 8.

I think the thing that is most hopeful, fa, and you'll be familiar with these thoughts/concerns yourself as regards South Africa and the way the game seems to be changing day by day, led by an increasingly powerful, in monetary terms, club game - the most hopeful thing from an Irish point of view is that we're clinging on as much as we can - staying close to the top of the top ten rankings.  That's increasingly a difficult thing to do given the developments of the European club game.

It's the kind of new climate (injections of science and infrastructure and increasing potential of some Leagues to grow players on a conveyor belt of excellence) where Nations like France and England could really catch a wave and pull away even from the traditional SH top three.  So I'm just glad we're at least still competing  for now

Not much sign of France growing players on a conveyor belt of excellence. They seem more interested in a conveyor belt of foreign players in search of a pension.

Exiledinborders wrote:Not much sign of France growing players on a conveyor belt of excellence.  They seem more interested in a conveyor belt of foreign players in search of a pension.

It's only the beginning of such a possible direction of fortunes, Exiled.  I'm old enough to realise the new megabuck club Leagues (also now pushing their weight into International issues) are just getting into their stride.  I'm talking about the big changes that have already taken place in recent years and the ones being discussed.  The future will be a tougher place to be for lesser Rugby Nations without a doubt.

SecretFly wrote:

Exiledinborders wrote:Not much sign of France growing players on a conveyor belt of excellence.  They seem more interested in a conveyor belt of foreign players in search of a pension.

It's only the beginning of such a possible direction of fortunes, Exiled.  I'm old enough to realise the new megabuck club Leagues (also now pushing their weight into International issues) are just getting into their stride.  I'm talking about the big changes that have already taken place in recent years and the ones being discussed.  The future will be a tougher place to be for lesser Rugby Nations without a doubt.

Agreed. Ireland already rely on foreign talent in key positions.

Cyril wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Exiledinborders wrote:Not much sign of France growing players on a conveyor belt of excellence.  They seem more interested in a conveyor belt of foreign players in search of a pension.

It's only the beginning of such a possible direction of fortunes, Exiled.  I'm old enough to realise the new megabuck club Leagues (also now pushing their weight into International issues) are just getting into their stride.  I'm talking about the big changes that have already taken place in recent years and the ones being discussed.  The future will be a tougher place to be for lesser Rugby Nations without a doubt.

Agreed. Ireland already rely on foreign talent in key positions.

Yeah, even England had to succumb and finally employ a foreigner coach after 144 years of resistance. Nobody can remain pure of heart under these terrible conditions. I think the End of the World is upon us and I'm digging my survival bunker this very week.