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NZ in India

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Post by KP_fan Fri 16 Sep 2016, 7:13 am

India has picked the squad and unfortunately promising all rounder Binny has been left out without a fair run...while Rohit gets picked with a promise of extended run.

Today NZ are playing Mumbai and promising swing bowler Balwinder singh Sandhu has picked both of NZ wickets
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Post by KP_fan Fri 16 Sep 2016, 7:14 am

top 4 of Mumbai players are with India-A in Aus....yet Mumbai always has talented batsmen....seam bowling appears light and spinners relateively medicore even by Ranji standards
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Post by KP_fan Fri 16 Sep 2016, 8:26 am

India- A playing in Aus......lost the first test narrowly
and looking far behind in T2

Hardik Pandya has blossomed with the bat in T2 and done OK with the ball...some consistent run should see him fast tracked into the Indian ODI squad atleast
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Post by KP_fan Sat 17 Sep 2016, 8:10 am

Southee out for the series....hurt training.
and umpteenth time we have seen bowlers in particular hurt when training
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Post by KP_fan Sat 17 Sep 2016, 1:38 pm

Mumbai 435-5 ....suryakumar yadav plays the inning that Rohit would have liked to play
SA Yadav c Ronchi b Santner 103 116 86 9 8 119.76
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Post by KP_fan Thu 22 Sep 2016, 9:49 am

I am not watching but it appears pitch not easy to score runs....assistance for spinners and swing for seamers

 Vijay should never have been left out----> he has been India's most solid batsman in every tour....Aus, Eng, SA, NZ , Lanka ( while he was fit) and delivered from he difficult openers slot
this is the only problem with Kohli...too frivolous in team selection
 and should Rohit fail India should look at playing all 3 openers including Dhawan in top3

185-4 at tea......NZ have pulled the game to an even level....but we won't know how easy or bad the pitch is until NZ bat on it.....

btw NZ become the first team I have known to play 3 specialist spinners against India in a long time

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Post by KP_fan Thu 22 Sep 2016, 11:43 am

262-7 India....looks like NZ's day so far....India would do well to cross 300 in first inning

how much is 300 worth on this pitch would be clear only wehn NZ batsmen are up against Jadeja and Ashwin

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Post by KP_fan Thu 22 Sep 2016, 12:34 pm

India 291-9......spinners took 5 wickets...Trent and Boult another 4 between them.
there was spin.....and reverse for those who could ball fast and straight in the air.

This is as good as a visiting side can hope to perform on D1 of a series in India.....

will wait to see how NZ cope with Ashwin and Jadeja
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Post by Mad for Chelsea Thu 22 Sep 2016, 4:04 pm

Indeed. On paper a good day for NZ, and certainly a very good one considering India were 150-1 at one point. But as ever, you can only tell how good a pitch is once both sides have batted on it...

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 23 Sep 2016, 10:11 am

NZ 152-1 at tea on day two

Williamson and Latham going well - and seem to be negating Ashwin/Jadeja so far. If they can continue to grind them into the dirt, with only 4 bowlers India may tire and this could allow the more free flowing NZ lower order batsman to punish them
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Post by KP_fan Fri 23 Sep 2016, 11:08 am

NZ are in a good position....as India was at the similar stage...while the scoreline looks good...the existence of NZ out there has been chancy.

My prognosis---> NZ will finish +20 to -30 runs of Indian score...good effort by Jadeja in the end to push India to 318
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Post by msp83 Fri 23 Sep 2016, 4:23 pm

New Zealand in a strong position at the end of day 2. KW and Latham doing well to put their side in a strong position.
Captain Clown yet again thought he's leading the Rohit Sharma 11 and not India. When will the idiot learn? Kohli has been a complete disgrace with his obsession for Nohit Sharma and he is selling out team interests for his friend. Amit Mishra or Bhuvneshwar Kumar would have offered more with the bat than the Mumbai Disaster and they would have given a proper 5th bowling option as well. But Kohli thinks Rohit's interests are above that of the Indian team and he's willing to go to any extend to keep his friend in the side. He deliberately undermines players like Vijay and Pujara for Sharma. Captain's did have their preferences in the past as well, but nobody have been this obsessed, and invest everything on a complete disaster of a test batsman!

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Post by msp83 Fri 23 Sep 2016, 4:40 pm

Murali Vijay and Cheteshwar Pujara, Kohli's victim in his Rohit obsession got couple of decent scores and should get to play the next game, and Ravindra Jadejaanother face not liked by the captain, batting at 9 hit them pass 300 in the first innings. However, the score wasn't an intimidating one for New Zealand, and having managed to pull things back from 154-1, they took lots of confidence into their batting. Although New Zealand's very own Rohit Sharma, Martin Guptill failed as expected, Tom Latham and Kane Williamson swept hard and rode their luck to take them to 152-1, nearly half-way to the Indian total. When play was called off early, the 2 Indian spinners, Ravindra Jadeja and Ravichandran Ashwin were finding their touch and troubling the batsmen. Jadeja was in fact denied the wickets of both batsmen when KL Rahul fumbled a catch of Latham and the ball touched his helmet grill before it was eventally taken, and the umpire then missing a clear edge from Williamson....... It won't yet be easy for New Zealand batsmen, but they do bat deep, and Ross Taylor and BJ Watling, good players of spin are yet to come. All their bowlers are capable of hitting the ball well, and Mark Craig is a bowling all-rounder. So with the start they've got, I expect New Zealand to take a first innings lead, it will be great for India if they can limit the damage under 50.......

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Post by KP_fan Sat 24 Sep 2016, 8:34 am

KP_fan wrote:NZ are in a good position....as India was at the similar stage...while the scoreline looks good...the existence of NZ out there has been chancy.

My prognosis---> NZ will finish +20 to -30 runs of Indian score...good effort by Jadeja in the end to push India to 318


well India get a lead of 56 Shocked which is actually a very handy lead for India

msp.....a few odd frivolous selections apart....Kohli has been a superb captain.......knows how to use bowlers to get wickets...and his results speak for themselves
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sat 24 Sep 2016, 9:17 am

Well that was a pathetic effort by the NZ lower middle and lower order
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Post by msp83 Sat 24 Sep 2016, 9:50 am

Good start from the Indian opener, Vijay solid and Rahul taking the bowling on as they have gone pass 50.

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Post by KP_fan Sat 24 Sep 2016, 1:15 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Well that was a pathetic effort by the NZ lower middle and lower order


Not really the pitch was difficult.....sharp turn and bounce varying between sudden jump to chest level to occasional ankle level....off the same good length spot.....
so NZ did well and were also lucky yesterday....to have not lost many more wickets.....
today the reality of the pitch caught up with them......


Tomm we have 98 overs and Ind should bat no more than 50 overs.....get between 150-200 runs in that span...giving them a lead of 365-400 and 145 overs....
Not that they would need all those overs to bowl out NZ...but gives cushion for rain stoppages....

and should in an unlikely event NZ bat out those overs and get the target........well then well played NZ

from the NZ part of batting i saw this morning.......if NZ get even 200 runs....it will be a miracle on this pitch now
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Post by KP_fan Sat 24 Sep 2016, 1:17 pm

I am seeing a disturbing tendency with Rahul....to lose his wicket trying to be too-positive.....he had the tag of a slow stroke-less opener...and lost his position often times for this stated reason to Dhawan.....and while his stroke making has improved significantly.....he muts not lose his original ability to build big innings...we need 100s from him
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Post by msp83 Sat 24 Sep 2016, 4:28 pm

Rahul and even Pujara seem to make an obvious effort to take the bowling on early in their innings. While playing positive cricket is good and necessary, Kohli's convoluted logics for the selections and his ludicrous obsession with Rohit is confusing the other players. Hope Rahul sticks to his strength while expanding his game. Positive cricket is cricket with intent, not trying to smash your way into a test win in a session. Hope Kumble would be able to help the players and also get his captain to think better.......

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Post by KP_fan Sat 24 Sep 2016, 5:17 pm

msp83 wrote:Rahul and even Pujara seem to make an obvious effort to take the bowling on early in their innings. While playing positive cricket is good and necessary, Kohli's convoluted logics for the selections and  his ludicrous obsession with Rohit is confusing the other players. Hope Rahul sticks to his strength while expanding his game. Positive cricket is cricket with intent, not trying to smash your way into a test win in a session. Hope Kumble would be able to help the players and also get his captain to think better.......

or another way of looking at it......Kohli lit a fire under the a.s.s of slow, scratchy, Rahul and Pujara...are playing positive. Very Happy
it's like Ganguly sat Kumble out and played bhajji when Ind could afford only one spinner.....forced Kumble to reinvent himself as an overseas spinner...adding flight, loop, variations googly


Kohli wins...and that's what he playes his cricket for...to win.

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Post by msp83 Sat 24 Sep 2016, 6:20 pm

Kohli does have an aggressive attitude that is serving India better than the sometimes too much passivity of MS. But Kohli is sacrificing a lot of what he stands for, only to get Rohit into the playing side. Flexible batting lineup, and even more importantly the 5 bowler theory. All of it goes out of the window when they get Rohit into the side. Everyone else will have their batting position changed for Rohit, even your best opener since Sehwag would get dropped for the no-hoper, and the 5th bowler theory is forgotten all too easily because Rohit has to be played.
If Ganguly put some pressure on Kumble, it was through a quality, test class player like Harbhajan. Imagine he trying someone like Nilesh Kulkarni or Rajesh Chauhan to do the same!!
Also worth noting that Kumble went public saying it is unfair on Pujara that he has to play with his place under constant questioning. Think the death of the 5 bowler theory is a compromise between coach and captain, the former realizing that if Rohit has to play, the side would need 5 proper batsmen....... And the only way Kohli could play Rohit would be at the expense of the 5th bowler.

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Post by KP_fan Sat 24 Sep 2016, 7:03 pm

selectors have said before this series....that they will give rohit a run.....which i think is about 5 to 7 innings in a row...and then make a decision on him
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Post by wisden Sat 24 Sep 2016, 7:47 pm

India don't need Rohit in the side...Bat Ashwin at 6, who is far more consistent, and reliable than Rohit..Rohit, isn't a test match batsman at all, he's technique isn't up to it, he is far more suited to limited overs cricket..

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Post by KP_fan Sat 24 Sep 2016, 8:04 pm

however one thing is hugely comforting that India has seemingly zeroed in on Rahul and Vijay as openers......and then we have Kohli and Rahane in the middle......these are undoubtedly India's 4 best batsmen.

Saha showed he can be a good No. 7 batsman and with confidence his WK-ing has improved significantly...

Then the next 3 batsmen fighting for 1 or two spots depending on whether we play 5 batsmen or 6 are Rohit, Pujara and Dhawan...and to me all of them are equally mediocre..averaging 35ish type

I would Like Rohit to make or break...and if its break then we will get in one of Nair or Shreyas Iyer in....both of whom are i think long term potentials like Rahul
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Post by msp83 Sun 25 Sep 2016, 7:29 am

Rohit and Pujara are world apart when it comes to test cricket. Rohit isn't a test class batsman in any conditions. Pujara has had his inconsistencies, but has the attitude and temperament for test cricket and is a fabulous test batsman in spinning conditions. He does need to work on a few issues with his technique, he scored runs against Steyn and Philander in their backyard lets not forget. Rohit can't even play such an innings even in his dreams!! And Pujara is the best bet India have at 3. And he can open if needed. Can come down the order too, thus fitting into Kohli's theory of a flexible batting lineup. The hyped up Sharma is a proven top order failure, can't bat against new ball, and has to be protected from all sides.
It just is absolutely ridiculous to bracket both Sharma and Pujara in the same category.
Even Dhawan for that matter is a superior test batsman to Rohit Sharma, who is only good enough for limited overs cricket on flat tracks.

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Post by msp83 Sun 25 Sep 2016, 7:37 am

India 252-4 at lunch, leading by 308. Both Vijay and Pujara failed to convert their 50s into hundreds, Vijay falling to Santner for 76 and Pujara to Sodhi for 78. Kohli failed again, making only 18. After his double hundred against the West Indies in the first test of the series, Kohli has been struggling to put up the big scores. All the more reason India shouldn't go in with Rohit in tests. If Kohli is struggiling, then Rohit at 6 is a luxury the team can't afford. Kohli, if he's so dead keen on Rohit in the side, will have to make sure he score the runs for his friend as well.

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Post by msp83 Sun 25 Sep 2016, 9:05 am

So Rohit gets to a test 50. Don't believe for a minute it will actually happen, but badly hope this is the point at which he turns the corner. Because this innings would mean he's going to play the entire home test season no matter what the output would be. Just hope he can do justice to the countless chances that came his way, the countless chances that are going to come his way....... At least they can say he eventually came good.......

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Post by msp83 Sun 25 Sep 2016, 9:18 am

Lead above 400. India 350-5.

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Post by KP_fan Sun 25 Sep 2016, 9:47 am

Rohit gets more than a 100 runs in the game at an average of 100+ Very Happy
now that he is under careful scrutiny stated publicly by the selectors........1st Round to Rohit.

Terrific Game for Jadeja---> 94 unbeaten runs in the game.....and 5 wickets in first inning...the 2nd inning to go yet

I always said , Jadeja will deliver with the bat when you release him of expectations as a batsman...let him hold his place and perform as a bowler .....and every now and then he will deliver with the bat....like he did crucially a few times against SA, once against West Indies and now in this test vs NZ
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Post by msp83 Sun 25 Sep 2016, 10:06 am

So India declare at 377-5, NZ need 434 to win.
Jadeja gets his 2nd test 50, not out on 50 and Sharma not out 68.
Massive ask it will be for NZ....... Latham, Taylor and certainly Williamson will have to produce specials.......

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Post by msp83 Sun 25 Sep 2016, 10:09 am

KPF, think Jadeja's most significant batting contribution came against England in England when he made that 57 ball 68.
He's better than his test average suggests though he's not as good as suggested by his FC average. His ODI average is a truer reflection of his potential batting output in tests, but for that to be realized, he needs to be trusted and supported. Kohli doing well to promote him up to 7 in this innings, ahead of Ashwin and Saha as they were looking for quick runs.

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Post by KP_fan Sun 25 Sep 2016, 10:24 am

Jadeja is not a No.7 or even 8 material ....he has problems with his technique and foot movement against decent seamers.....and he was struggling when Dhoni had put him in the side expecting him to perform as a batsman also

Yes that innings at Lords ( his highest score to date) was a valuable inning.....nevertheless the point with him....if do not expect him to score runs......he has no pressure of expectations and he will occasionally deliver and take his runs as a bonus
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Post by KP_fan Sun 25 Sep 2016, 11:33 am

i thought India took 10 overs too many too declare...ele there was a chance to finish the game today
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Post by wisden Sun 25 Sep 2016, 4:53 pm

With Willamson gone, NZ will fold tomorrow IMO

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Post by msp83 Sun 25 Sep 2016, 6:49 pm

The first fw overs of the NZ innings was so fascinating to follow. Each ball carried a great deal of threat and it needed real skillful batting to survive against Ashwin and Jadeja, and needed a lot of luck as well. But the drama was so intense.......

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Post by msp83 Sun 25 Sep 2016, 6:52 pm

With Jadeja, think he turned in a very creditable performance in the South Africa series that was lo-scoring. During most of the collapses, he made valuable lower-order runs that eventually ended up making a significant difference.
Jadeja can't be a number 7 material in a batting lineup with Ashwin or Rohit batting at 6. But if there is a proper batsman at 6, Ashwin at 7, Jadeja can be a more than capable number 8 who can bat 7 in situations where they are looking for quick runs.......

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Post by KP_fan Mon 26 Sep 2016, 8:22 am

NZ have fought hard in this test....their batsmen did as good a job as possible under these conditions....I think it's their bowling...spinners in particular that have let them down.....not deriving any where close to the assistance that was on offer in the pitch....inspite of Boult / wagner making it easier for them in first inning with half the wickets.
the second inning is where NZ spinners were completely exposed.

The old saying you must pick your best bowlers who are likely to get you wickets....and not mediocres theoretically suited for the pitch.
The small bursts by Boult and Shami being the case in point.

At the very least they need to replace Sodhi with a top quality fast bowler for the next game.


India win by 200 runs.....and if the pitch in T2 will be anywhere like this one.....Ind may consider replacing Yadav with Mishra.

Jadeja should be the MoM...although Vijay will also be in the running
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Post by KP_fan Mon 26 Sep 2016, 8:49 am

Mark Craig is out with a side strain...and Jeetan Patel is replacing him.
So NZ should bring Patel for Craig.....and either of Bracewell or Matt Henry for Ish sodhi ( the faster of the two)

and a close look at the Martin Guptil's position as an opener is warranted......it's not his bad form or lack of runs......what should be worrying...he is not willing to sweat it out.....wants to hit his way out of a bad patch...doesn't work......not on these pitches and rarely as an opener
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Post by wisden Mon 26 Sep 2016, 1:24 pm

Jeetan Patel called up, stunned about that...thought he no longer wasnted to play for NZ...there is also a real lack of depth in NZ in terms of spin... Henry is the quicker of him and bracewell, also doubt Bracewell would be effective on Indian pitches to be honest..

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Post by msp83 Mon 26 Sep 2016, 2:15 pm

A very good win for India. Ashwin with yet another 10 wicket performance. The 2nd fastest to 200 test wickets, great achievement. People might point out he hasn't run through sides in non-subcontinent conditions, but that does not reduce the value of what he has done in these conditions, and the overall quality of his bowling is improving.......

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Post by msp83 Mon 26 Sep 2016, 2:27 pm

New Zealand tried, and they did better than South Africa or Australia managed, extended the test to day 5, and although the lower order didn't do anything, there was fight in them. Ronchi played really well though his shot selection sort of let him down in getting out in both innings. But He's basically the backup wicketkeeper, who's debut test produced an enterprising 88 with the bat, but can't make it into the test side because in Watling they have a mighty fine player as wicketkeeper batsman. But Ronchi certainly comes across as a better option than Henry Nichols, and in a middle order without the now retired Brendon McCullum, Ronchi's aggression might work well for New Zealand.
Martin (Rohit) Guptill, like his 'illustrious' Indian counterpart, continues to keep all bucketful of talent very much in the bucket itself! His position needs to be looked into, but they don't have a reserve opener in the squad. Making Ronchi open is not likely to fix the issue, and in any case, Ronchi is closer to the end of his career than to the beginning. He's not a regular opener either, and the likes of Nichols or Anderson don't bring considerable batting quality in the middle order. So they might have to carry the great talent around for some more time, and perhaps he might score a few at some point, afterall there is a law of averages.
Of all the NZ spinner, it is the least experienced Mitchell Santner who looked the best bet. He has more control than the others, and he's an all-rounder as well, adding value to the side. Sodhi bowls far too many hit-me stuff. Patel has long First Class experience though he's unlikely to be the answer to NZ's spin troubles. But he could be much better than the other options.
Southee's injury means they have to pick from Henry or Bracewell. Not either of them would make a world of difference. For his greater experience, I'd opt for Bracewell. Also thought Williamson did not use Bolt well in the India 2nd innings. He's undoubtedly the best bowler New Zealand has got. He has done well in Indian conditions earlier, I remember him smashing through Sachin Tendulkar's defense during the previous tour....... After his fitness issues early this year, he's getting back to his best, and he should be taking more of the bowling responsibilities particularly as they are missing Southee.

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Post by msp83 Mon 26 Sep 2016, 2:31 pm

The otherhighlight of the day was Shami. Reverse at last made an entry, and it was brilliant when Shami could get it to go. The balls whith he got Watling and Craig wre just absolutely brilliant.
It is this ability to be handy with both the new and old balls that should see Shami being considered the leader of the Indian seam bowling unit.
But Kohli's other friend, Ishant Sharma should be fit for the next test and should be back in place of Umesh and will be taking over the mandle of the leader of the attack and will be giving the New Zealand batsman a great deal of practice in leaving the ball outside offstump!

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Post by msp83 Mon 26 Sep 2016, 3:46 pm

India might also have to consider a change or 2 for the next game. KL Rahul has a hamstring injury and not sure to recover in time. Kohli also hinted that as Kolkata could be a batting friendly track, India might consider the 5th bowler option.
Which means Pujara' who was asked to score quickly and delivered in both innings, could yet again come under pressure. Perhaps Kohli would go in for Dhawan for Rahul, Mishra for Pujara and Ishant for Yadav. If Anil Kumble manage to put some sense into him, he might settle for Pujara and Vijay to open, and Mishra for Rahul. And as an act of chest-thumping, the captain might come in at 3!

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Post by KP_fan Mon 26 Sep 2016, 4:21 pm

where did you read about Rahul's hamstring?

Kolkata is not batting friendly....it is as spin friendly as Kanpur was.

To me Mishra for yadav is the only viable change
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Post by wisden Mon 26 Sep 2016, 6:04 pm

I agree KPF, i expect Mishra to come in for the next test..no point with 2 quicks, particuarly as i dont think they bowled 25 overs between them in the whole game..

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Post by wisden Mon 26 Sep 2016, 6:40 pm

Was impressed with India's spinners in this game..Ashwin impresses me more and more with each game...2nd fastest to 200 test wickets, over 200 wickets at 25 a piece, is a magnifcent record, and the fact that he is good enough to bat in the top 7, only helps his cause, and will probably go down as one of India's best when he calls it a day...always rely on him for wickets, and he will keep tight when need be... Jadeja i never know what to make of..originally a batsman who could bowl, but at international level looks more and more like a bowler who can bat..his f'c record with the bat is very flattering, and clearly plays on flat decks against poor bowling attacks, as at test level he is someone who scores quick runs and that's that... i've never really rated his bowling particuarly away from home, but at home he is a very useful 2nd spinner...his 'darts', partucarly with the new ball are very effective...batsman always play for spin, when there rarely is any, and he picks up wickets for fun at home, as well as rarely going at more than 2 an over at home, very good game for the two spinners.

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Post by msp83 Mon 26 Sep 2016, 7:15 pm

KP_fan wrote:where did you read about Rahul's hamstring?

Kolkata is not batting friendly....it is as spin friendly as Kanpur was.

To me Mishra for yadav is the only viable change
KPF, Rahul didn't take any part in the game after his 2nd innings batting. Cricinfo had indicated that he had injured his hammy and may not be ready for the 2nd test. Kohli in the press meet did hint about the 5 bowler possibility in a possible spin friendly track at Kolkata. The Kolkata curator has produced tracks that have been batting oriented at least on 3 or 4 days, and when England came touring last time, if you remember there was a huge dust up....... So Kohli might want his 5 bowlers, and I think they should go in with 2 seamers. Not Yadav though, Bhuvneshwar for some early swing, and Shami as the first choice seamer who can do things with the new and old balls and provide a wicket or 2 at crucial passages.

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Post by wisden Mon 26 Sep 2016, 7:58 pm

A second seamer shouldn't play, but if he does, then i have a feeling it will be Ishant Sharma..

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NZ in India Empty Re: NZ in India

Post by KP_fan Mon 26 Sep 2016, 10:35 pm

--actually 3 spinners can do bowling worth 4 seamers between them....

further look at the bolwing workload in this game:

--The spinners bowled 70 and 72 overs in two innings total 142 overs.

--seamers bowled 26 and 16 ....total 42 overs in 2 innings

clearly Kohli did not trust the seamers enough and the spinners were overbowled....and kohli realized that and was forced to use Vijay and Rohit..instead of giving more overs to seamers who bowled only a 3rd of the overs.


so a 3rd spinner is NEEDED FOR SURE.

they can drop a seamer to get the 3rd spinner(my preference)
.. because if only 40 overs of seam are required in 2 innings....one seamer is enuf.

OR

they may drop a batsman to bring in Mishra.....in that case i agree with MSP.....that Bhuvi shuld be the 2nd seamer....gives 7 to 8 overs of pure swing with each new ball and strengths the batting

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Post by KP_fan Tue 27 Sep 2016, 8:51 am

http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-new-zealand-2016-17/content/story/1059219.html

Kohli and confirmed to Pujara that they want him---but he needs to be more positive after getting set-in

good advice and more than that proactive , positive management

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