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Southgate's England and the next England manager

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Southgate's England and the next England manager - Page 4 Empty Southgate's England and the next England manager

Post by Dolphin Ziggler Sun 02 Oct 2016, 1:33 pm

First topic message reminder :

Get to close the Allardyce thread in record time, now caretaker manager Southgate has a chance to stake his claim for the job, whilst we all discuss almost anyone else as the thought of Southgate worries many.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Tue 08 Nov 2016, 1:42 pm

Crimey wrote:
Mad for Chelsea wrote:Given how comfortable Chelsea have looked in the 3-4-3 formation, with it giving them added solidity at the back while still allowing them to create plenty going forward, I was toying with the idea that England could adopt something similar.

Pros:
- extra cover at the back
- allows the wing-backs more freedom to roam forward, which is where there strength lies
- said roaming means our wide attacking players can drift inside without losing too much width, something our wide players are quite fond of doing

Cons:
- probably means you have to pick Jagielka as one of the three CBs. Ah, there goes that idea then Wink

More serioursly, something like:
Hart
Stones Cahill Jagielka(??)
Clyne Dier Henderson Rose
Lallana Kane Sterling

Could it work? Am I completely crazy?

Main problem is it's a system which requires day to day training I feel, as most the players are suited to a back four which makes it difficult to implement at international level. 

I'd also say that I'm not sure it'd work with the players you've selected. Clyne is probably not attacking enough to play as an attacking wing back, his strength is in defending really. I'm not sure Dier would work there either as he's not creative enough. You could play him instead of Jagielka, Lallana next to Henderson and Walcott/Rashford up with Kane and Sterling.

You're right about Clyne, maybe he could play as one of the back three, similar to Azpilicueta? Similar style of player. Walker at right wing back instead. Not sure I agree about Dier, he's not the most creative sure but neither are Kante or Matic, and I don't think Dier is less creative than the former especially. Their main role is to shield the defence.

Fair point about the system though, most of our players will be familiar with four at the back, and with limited preparation time a big shift in tactics might not be the best thing... Then again, can it be worse than being saved on multiple occasions by Hart against Slovakia? Wink

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Post by Crimey Tue 08 Nov 2016, 2:01 pm

I think the difference between Kante and Dier is that Kante's defensive strength is his running. He shields so well because he seems to be everywhere at once. I think you get that running and stamina from Henderson in the two and I'm not sure what Dier offers in the middle, particularly when he would probably be better in the back three, with Stones and Dier being the ball-playing defenders either side of Cahill. 

I think if you're going to play two full backs in the wing backs positions you don't need two defensive midfielders in the middle. Chelsea (and Juventus and Italy before that) usually played with one defensive minded wing back and one attacking. At the moment this is Marcos Alonso and Victor Moses, one was a full back and the other a winger. It's just whether England have a wide player who can do the Moses role, I'm not sure there are any who are disciplined enough. Like you said, England's wide players tend to want to cut inside a lot. 

I think to stop the formation becoming too defensive, but continue to play Walker and Rose as wing backs would be to play Henderson and a more attacking central player, either Alli or Lallana would be great.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Tue 08 Nov 2016, 7:36 pm

To be fair, Antonio has scored goals in games in that role. But I'd play Walker right now.

I like the system, it's made West Ham more solid and worked for us last year too, but it can limit creativity and as the bigger side in all our games I'm not sure it helps us break sides down.

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Post by Crimey Tue 08 Nov 2016, 7:54 pm

I think England generally tend to play with too much caution so I worry that ever trying a back three would quickly become a back five. England players are so scared of failure, they very rarely aim for success.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Tue 08 Nov 2016, 8:39 pm

Tactically it's also pointless against the sides we play regularly. They all play restricted 1 up systems.

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Post by compelling and rich Tue 08 Nov 2016, 9:19 pm

not sure why were talking up chelseas formation as the way forward as any formation is about the players to fit that system. chelsea system works so well because it gets the best out of hazard, a player who England haven't even got close to, we haven't even got anyone close to costa.


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Post by Hero Fri 11 Nov 2016, 8:02 pm

Isn't John Stones meant to be a defender who's got excellent passing skills?

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Post by Guest Fri 11 Nov 2016, 8:11 pm

Southgate's contract being written up right now

1-0 Sturridge

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 11 Nov 2016, 8:20 pm

Scotland are really bad
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Post by Guest Fri 11 Nov 2016, 8:33 pm

Expect Ritchie & Burke on in the second half

No quality in the game, two woeful looking sides

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Post by Fernando Fri 11 Nov 2016, 8:53 pm

England 2-0 Scotland - Adam Lallana

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 11 Nov 2016, 8:57 pm

If Scotland didn't become completely Sunday league in the final third they'd be winning this - outperforming England
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Post by Fernando Fri 11 Nov 2016, 9:04 pm

England 3-0 Scotland - Gary Cahill

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Post by Guest Fri 11 Nov 2016, 9:14 pm

Sterling picard

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 11 Nov 2016, 9:43 pm

What a pile of rubbish that game was

Scotland would legitimately struggle in the championship
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Post by NickisBHAFC Fri 11 Nov 2016, 9:54 pm

SPL is league one standard, no if's no buts. Celtic would 100% be in a relegation battle in the championship. Scottish league is nothing.

Another standard win for England, script writing itself so far as expected, ease through qualifying and then get our pants pulled down (like Norwich at the amex) in Russia.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Fri 11 Nov 2016, 10:19 pm

Good performance.

Scotland are diabolical

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Post by compelling and rich Mon 14 Nov 2016, 6:50 pm

problem scotland have got is majority of their players play in a poor league. the spl has really gone down hill in recent years. compare Scotland to the likes of wales or ireland and the majority of their players are all premiership players. massive difference in quality that they play in

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Post by Fernando Mon 14 Nov 2016, 11:50 pm

Gareth Southgate to be offered a 4 year deal.

F**k you FA, F**k you

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Post by dyrewolfe Tue 15 Nov 2016, 12:38 pm

Fernando wrote:Gareth Southgate to be offered a 4 year deal.

F**k you FA, F**k you


What are you talking about? Southgate is the best England manager since Sam Allardyce... Wink The fact England will be facing a greatly weakened Spain side (injuries galore) isn't going to help persuade anyone otherwise...

To be honest I'm not that bothered. Firstly, there aren't any stand-out candidates available and second, the problem is with our players, as much as the manager...they simply lack the intelligence to play to the highest level. Probably a sign that club academies are highly deficient in that regard. Seems our players are coached so they get used to being yelled at from the sidelines, instead of being taught to think for themselves.

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Post by Scott is Back Tue 15 Nov 2016, 1:03 pm

Fernando wrote:Gareth Southgate to be offered a 4 year deal.

F**k you FA, F**k you

Same ethos, Same Players, Same Result!

Brilliant choice from the FA Shocked

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Tue 15 Nov 2016, 4:10 pm

Fernando wrote:Gareth Southgate to be offered a 4 year deal.

F**k you FA, F**k you

I'm out - done caring/watching anymore.
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Post by Guest Tue 15 Nov 2016, 5:00 pm

The next worthwhile event related to England, which will be worth watching, will be the WC group stage draw on December 1st, 2017

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Post by compelling and rich Tue 15 Nov 2016, 7:28 pm

anyone else got a feeling this game is going to be terrible, im in work and im still contemplating not watching it

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Post by Guest Tue 15 Nov 2016, 8:10 pm

We're going to win the World Cup being printed right now

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Post by compelling and rich Tue 15 Nov 2016, 8:10 pm

pep reina terrible keeper

commentators dont even know the rules here

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Post by compelling and rich Tue 15 Nov 2016, 8:41 pm

ignoring how awful this spain side is, ive quite like the way we have played. (early goal helped) but nice to see us using our pace and looking to break quickly. suits our players lot more

will soon get ruined when we have to shoe horn kane and rooney back into the side

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Post by Guest Tue 15 Nov 2016, 9:53 pm

Haha 2-2. Embarrassing collapse

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Tue 15 Nov 2016, 9:59 pm

It's great, it really is, that everyone I know laughed when they equalised. So English. 

Cresswell got on heart

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Post by Guest Wed 16 Nov 2016, 9:03 am

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Cresswell got on heart

440 minutes since England last conceded with Rose playing @ LB.

Cresswell @ LB England conceded 2 x goals in under 10 minutes

Hope you enjoyed that appearance, Dolph. There won't be many more.


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Post by Scott is Back Wed 16 Nov 2016, 9:08 am

Good to see Vardy recreating the mannequin he has been portraying all season!

Even better to see the defence recreate Vardys Mannequin impression from 80 mins onwards.

Lost complete interest in England, but did watch this due to jack-all being on TV. Gutted for Heaton to have conceded 2, no chance with the first, but at fault for the second.

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Post by dyrewolfe Wed 16 Nov 2016, 12:15 pm

Just John wrote:Haha 2-2. Embarrassing collapse

I had a feeling that 2-0 scoreline was just too good to be true. England were great for the first hour or so, but inexplicably folded in the last half hour...just couldn't cope when Spain finally decided to kick it up a gear. Went far too defensive and we paid the price.

And if this is what we are like in a friendly, against a team missing several key players, god help us in our next competitive tournament match.

I was very interested to note the Spain coach made very similar comments to mine, regarding the intelligence of English players (or lack of it).



By the way, for those of you contemplating never watching an England game again, the statement from FA chairman Greg Clarke might give you some hope:

Southgate's England and the next England manager - Page 4 _92459826_england

Not exactly a ringing endorsement of Southgate, is it?
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Post by compelling and rich Wed 16 Nov 2016, 6:35 pm

rooney, out on the p!ss in between games. surely as good a opportunity to rid him as captain now. time to move on

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Wed 16 Nov 2016, 7:18 pm

Just John wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Cresswell got on heart

440 minutes since England last conceded with Rose playing @ LB.

Cresswell @ LB England conceded 2 x goals in under 10 minutes

Hope you enjoyed that appearance, Dolph. There won't be many more.


Yeah, it was all him...troll off

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Post by compelling and rich Wed 16 Nov 2016, 7:27 pm

wasnt all cresswell but the subs need a long hard look at themselves. rashford was awful when he came on, both he and cresswell butchered a chance down the left and they go other end and score. heaton was poor for the second and we looked a lot weaker with jags at the back over cahill. the players who went off were probably our best players on the night.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Wed 16 Nov 2016, 7:45 pm

I don't think Cresswell can take the blame there, he recovered an awful pass by Rashford and then Rashford lost the ball. The centre of defence went to hell, and the goalie should have saved the equaliser, so the changes clearly did throw people. He made them in a rash, at the same time as Spain brought on their actual footballers

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Post by compelling and rich Wed 16 Nov 2016, 7:55 pm

agree with most of your points isco, koke and morata made a big difference, but aspas only got into the game when rose went off. up until that point he looked like the aspas of liverpool.

think its time to drop rashford from england and united, he's been fairly poor for a while for us. bit of time out of the limelight may be what he needs.

i know these friendlies your supposed to rotate and give subs a chance but other than townsend the ones who came on did nothing at all other than make us look weaker

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Wed 16 Nov 2016, 8:24 pm

I suppose it doesnt help that Rashford has come on as a straight up striker, when he hasnt played there for a good while. And hes come on when we've lost the flow.

I'm still annoyed he called Kane up; Austin deserved his chance again and Kane was clearly not fit

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Post by owen10ozzy Thu 17 Nov 2016, 12:16 am

Haha Graeme LeSaux on the selection panel..that takes some explaining!

Players out on the piss inbetween games, may go some way to explaining the 'fatigue' and lack of performance in last twenty minutes against Spain.

Such an arrogance from top to bottom of the FA, from those in charge right down to the players. People out this morning saying Southgate deserves job etc and he has the players behind him yet one has to wonder if that's true...you want a man in a job you don't go out and get yourself into stupid situations which call into question his authority.

If he gets the job the very first thing Southgate must do is rip out the old generation of the England set up and start again...don't care how long it takes for them to settle in and become a unit..the likes of Rooney, Jags etc should be nowhere near the squad.

Likelihood is; he will get the job and then do as all before him do..show no strength and revert to a yes man doing as the FA say and making sure he doesn't upset the apple cart of the big name players and premier league teams.

Well done Creswell on finally getting a game by the way, thoroughly deserved after the last two years probably more to be honest.

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Post by Fernando Thu 16 Mar 2017, 2:04 pm

England Squad

Southgate's England and the next England manager - Page 4 C7Czz5OWkAQAFXB

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Post by Guest Thu 16 Mar 2017, 2:06 pm

Livermore picard

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Post by Crimey Thu 16 Mar 2017, 2:08 pm

Jermain Defoe deserves the call up, especially with all the injuries. Michael Keane also deserves the call up.

Not so sure on Lingard, Livermore, Shaw and Jones though. I suppose this is as a result of all the injuries at the moment. 

Hart

Walker - - Stones - - Cahill - - Bertrand

Dier

Lallana - - Alli

Oxlade-Chamberlain - - - - - -  - - - - - -Sterling  

Rashford/Vardy

Guessing that's first choice line up? Maybe Barkley instead of Chamberlain. 

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu 16 Mar 2017, 2:23 pm

So happy Redmond got in
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Post by Hammersmith harrier Thu 16 Mar 2017, 4:57 pm

Jones in fairness has been decent alongside Rojo, it's Smalling and Shaw who don't deserve to be there on merit.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Thu 16 Mar 2017, 7:26 pm

We've hit the nadir. Southgate is England manager, Jake Livermore is in the squad and what appears to be a former member of 911 is in there as a left back option even though he's played about 4 minutes this year

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Thu 16 Mar 2017, 7:26 pm

Can't see how the ox plays before Redmond or Antonio

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Post by Crimey Wed 22 Mar 2017, 4:22 pm

Southgate's England and the next England manager - Page 4 Englan10

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Post by Crimey Wed 22 Mar 2017, 4:24 pm

How dire does that team look and what is Southgate thinking?

Michael Keane debuts in a back three when he has been excelling in a back four. Eric Dier who has played in a back three this season is playing in midfield. Same with Livermore who started the season as an emergency centre back for Hull and played in a back three. 

The midfield itself is made up of three players who have been playing defenders much of the season and Jake Livermore, who also played in defence for a while with Hull! Where's the creativity?

It gets said a lot, but that is genuinely one of the worst teams I've ever seen England put out.

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Post by Guest Wed 22 Mar 2017, 4:29 pm

What a line-up picard

Nothing game this, B sides on show & purely a testimonial for Podolski to say auf wiedersehen

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed 22 Mar 2017, 4:41 pm

A midfield of Livermore and Dier?

Think I'll give this one a miss lads
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