Refs and commentators

Thought it was interesting following the ongoing bickering on the club forums over bias/rubbish refereeing to watch the SA Aus game this week. There seemed to be an early decision by 2 of the commentators that Wayne Barnes was a poor ref and making silly and constant mistakes (possibly a view held by a few here). There followed several decisions they moaned about, while seemingly not knowing the laws, and a few clear cut decisions that they moaned at, and were then proved wrong (ball bouncing in field when tehy called it out, by Clancy I think). To be fair they then called it that they made a mistake before returning to criticising the general performance. When considering that we tend as a group of fans (England, Ireland whoever) to all (majority) dislike the same refs it got me thinking on how much of it was being affected by commentary bias rather than what we see with our own eyes.

If Stephen Jones tells me that Cooper-Wooley is the best tight head in the northern hemisphere enough, will I start to think it to?!

As a whole I used to think that SA referees on international games weren't that great (when watching England).
Kaplan and Watson were the 2 that really stick in the mind.
And Walsh for just being a wally - although not a Saffa.

Nigel Owens is the best international ref in my opinion.

Tony Spreaders always looked to be pretty solid

Paddy O'Brein was the best of the games I saw in my youth.

Replays have helped undermine commentators and colour men. We can now see how they can be as fallible as the rest of us when they try and call things in realtime. On the other hand, replays help analysts highlight strategies and plays that I certainly wouldn't have noticed on my own.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Thought it was interesting following the ongoing bickering on the club forums over bias/rubbish refereeing to watch the SA Aus game this week. There seemed to be an early decision by 2 of the commentators that Wayne Barnes was a poor ref and making silly and constant mistakes (possibly a view held by a few here). There followed several decisions they moaned about, while seemingly not knowing the laws, and a few clear cut decisions that they moaned at, and were then proved wrong (ball bouncing in field when tehy called it out, by Clancy I think). To be fair they then called it that they made a mistake before returning to criticising the general performance. When considering that we tend as a group of fans (England, Ireland whoever) to all (majority) dislike the same refs it got me thinking on how much of it was being affected by commentary bias rather than what we see with our own eyes.

If Stephen Jones tells me that Cooper-Wooley is the best tight head in the northern hemisphere enough, will I start to think it to?!

With Barnes I think he guesses at scrum and breakdown and is so inconsistent with his calls.

I think his sending off of Dylan Hartley a few years back was the same, Hartley shouts f ing cheat, seemingly in no particular direction and Barnes decides it was in his direction for no reason other than he decided so

Most commentators though seem to be fans and talk about how highly rated he is

I think when there is so much disparity in, say the citing commission and sanctions against those that transgress that there is little hope for referee consistency.
And that is when there is a panel with the benefit of post game analysis - to expect referees to get it right in real time, all the time is impossible.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Thought it was interesting following the ongoing bickering on the club forums over bias/rubbish refereeing to watch the SA Aus game this week. There seemed to be an early decision by 2 of the commentators that Wayne Barnes was a poor ref and making silly and constant mistakes (possibly a view held by a few here). There followed several decisions they moaned about, while seemingly not knowing the laws, and a few clear cut decisions that they moaned at, and were then proved wrong (ball bouncing in field when tehy called it out, by Clancy I think). To be fair they then called it that they made a mistake before returning to criticising the general performance. When considering that we tend as a group of fans (England, Ireland whoever) to all (majority) dislike the same refs it got me thinking on how much of it was being affected by commentary bias rather than what we see with our own eyes.

If Stephen Jones tells me that Cooper-Wooley is the best tight head in the northern hemisphere enough, will I start to think it to?!

It is, yes, to a degree theatre.  Sport is theatre and even though we often deny it, even to ourselves, a large part of the fun is the drama and the narratives.  And one of the narratives is the refs and some of the biggest stars of the games have been and still are refs.  Some fans talk about Nigel and Irish fans have some fun about Barnes.  Yes, to a degree it's a game and keeps the show interesting.  But then you do also check records for degrees of how serious the underlying fun might be.

I personally don't give a damn how many times we get Wayne in future.  If and when we do, it'll be more fun listening to all the stuff over again from all the usual sources.  Sport is entertainment.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Thought it was interesting following the ongoing bickering on the club forums over bias/rubbish refereeing to watch the SA Aus game this week. There seemed to be an early decision by 2 of the commentators that Wayne Barnes was a poor ref and making silly and constant mistakes (possibly a view held by a few here). There followed several decisions they moaned about, while seemingly not knowing the laws, and a few clear cut decisions that they moaned at, and were then proved wrong (ball bouncing in field when tehy called it out, by Clancy I think). To be fair they then called it that they made a mistake before returning to criticising the general performance. When considering that we tend as a group of fans (England, Ireland whoever) to all (majority) dislike the same refs it got me thinking on how much of it was being affected by commentary bias rather than what we see with our own eyes.

If Stephen Jones tells me that Cooper-Wooley is the best tight head in the northern hemisphere enough, will I start to think it to?!

New Zealand viewers had the South African (English) commentary with Joel Stransky, who I think is excellant. I didnt hear one word of criticism of Barnes by the commentary team throughout the entire game.

It seems to me that from the above description by 7.5, he was listening to Phil Kearns.

Who were the commentators 7.5?

Pass, sorry missed kick off and didn't catch them. Sky Sports but obviously not the normal guys.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Pass, sorry missed kick off and didn't catch them. Sky Sports but obviously not the normal guys.

Were they South Africans or Australians?

2 Aussies and a South African. To be fair just picked them as it was this weekend, could have picked a few more.

Firstly turn off the volume and use your own eyes,then you won`t be influenced
I always ignore it.The relative quirks of Referees should be common knowledge
for any Coach.
Barnes,Poite,Peyper[in particular] never let the game flow especially in the Scrum area."The Front Row Mafia"will always test the Ref out to see what
he will let them get away with.
IF the REF thinks your at it you could get whistled out of the game. There
are so many technical areas in Scrums/Lineouts/Breakdown/Maul now.
That penalty shoot outs are so often the case,it doesn't help when IRB
constantly tinkers with laws.OR gives Refs secret instructions to be strict
on as examples.Jumping for the ball,dangerous tackles etc .change match
by match.
Incidentally whatever Stephen Jones tells you think the opposite he`s
nearly as bad as Chris Rattue which is saying something.

No, I like commentary and the crowd noise for a start, but I'm not a sheep in this regard anyway. You're one of those on this site which has a disregard to Barnes anyway emack due to him reffing NZ well! I can't remember the last time I saw a penalty shoot out in rugby.

I find the commentators often talk over the refmike - so they miss the ref explain the decision

You have your ideas on Wayne Barnes interesting stats NZ have a 48%win
record with him officiating.Australia before the last game 14 straight wins
with him in charge.
You seem to think he`s the only Ref that penalizes NZ, stats prove otherwise
is the most penalised/yellow cards of tier one teams.
Referees are human they rely on there own decisions with some help.
The laws are black and white,BUT how often are they policed Scrums shouldn't
move till ball`s fed in.The Lineout gap maintained till ball leaves throwers hand
not to mention.Some of the best acting outside of RADA.Penalty shoot out
couple seasons ago watched Wales v Scotland.Wales won 9-7 not to mention
a number of misses.Everytime either side tried to play football the whistle went
afterwards it was said they had set a world record for penalties.

aucklandlaurie wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Pass, sorry missed kick off and didn't catch them. Sky Sports but obviously not the normal guys.

Were they South Africans or Australians?

They were the usual SA commentators, they're pretty good tbh, a little biased but generally easy to listen to.

TJ wrote:I find the commentators often talk over the refmike - so they miss the ref explain the decision

That is Stu Barnes speciality, repeating himself as the ref speaks, getting confused and then angry

emack2 wrote:You have your ideas on Wayne Barnes interesting stats NZ have a 48%win
record with him officiating.Australia before the last game 14 straight wins
with him in charge.
You seem to think he`s the only Ref that penalizes NZ, stats prove otherwise
is the most penalised/yellow cards of tier one teams.
Referees are human they rely on there own decisions with some help.
The laws are black and white,BUT how often are they policed Scrums shouldn't
move till ball`s fed in.The Lineout gap maintained till ball leaves throwers hand
not to mention.Some of the best acting outside of RADA.Penalty shoot out
couple seasons ago watched Wales v Scotland.Wales won 9-7 not to mention
a number of misses.Everytime either side tried to play football the whistle went
afterwards it was said they had set a world record for penalties.

Barnes for me is the best in the world now and rarely has a poor game. Again you talk of pen shoot outs? I don't think I remember the last time game went to one?