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Dougie's Mailbag: Pryor vs the best at LWW

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Post by hazharrison on Mon 17 Oct 2016, 6:04 pm

First topic message reminder :

Doug Fischer from RingTV gave his picks when asked about Aaron Pryor vs the best at 140. Which do you think would have made for the best fight?:

FLOYD FANBOYS

Hey Dougie,

I hope all is well.

Good response to the Floyd Fanboy on Monday. It makes me laugh how far Mayweather’s groupies will go to accuse other boxers of the very things they’ll deny Mayweather did.

I’m sure you’ve seen or heard about the video on fighthype, where he’s said he never had to use his A or B game… yeah, ok Floyd. You struggled to beat DeLaHoya, Castillo and Maidana because you weren’t trying. This actually lead to me arguing with a friend about how he would have done with the guys he avoided in 2007/ 2008, namely Cotto, Margarito and Paul Williams. I think Cotto would have been a hard fight but Floyd could win. Williams is an even harder fight. But Margarito? The guy who threw 100 punches a round and ate bombs from Cotto and Cintron and Clottey and Williams for breakfast? against a smaller, less hard punching Mayweather that was getting out worked, bullied and repeatedly pinned against the ropes by an old, part time dela hoya? I can’t see how Mayweather could have beaten him in 2007-2008. Specifically after he got beaten by Williams and realised his next loss could end him as a top tier welterweight, and pre leaving a part of himself in the ring vs Cotto.

What do you think?

Another funny thing; we’ve now got Floyd and Ward fanboys saying Brook exposed GGG and it shows why Floyd/ Ward would beat him, ignoring many different factors:

Brook is bigger than Floyd, hits harder, maybe has a better chin, and took the fight to GGG. The only thing offensively Floyd has on Brook (at this point) is hand speed. Other than that it’s a complete different fight. In that GGG would probably show Floyd even less respect than he showed brook and will go after him non stop.

The same way Ward is bigger than Brook and GGG, GGG would (probably) respect Ward’s power and strength more and not be so careless defensively, and not throw as many punches that could lead to him being countered or punching himself out. Ward would also fight a lot more cautiously than Brook did.

Anyways, keep up the good work!

Aaron Pryor Mythical match ups, all @ 140:

Pryor vs Chavez

Pryor vs Duran

Pryor vs Meldrick Taylor

Pryor vs Tszyu

Pryor vs Whitaker

Pryor vs Pacquaio

Pryor vs Mayweather

Pryor vs Mosley

Pryor vs De La Hoya

Also, how would he have done at 147 vs Hearns and Leonard?

Have a good weekend.

(PS – I’m a black fight fan, before anyone in the “demographic” gives me stick for being racist in going against the grain with Floyd

Your skin color won’t stop the members of the “dummy-graphic” from calling you a racist and a sellout and a hater. Welcome to my world.

Regarding Mayweather’s latest FightHype interview, no I haven’t seen it. I haven’t read or watched a Mayweather article in its entirety since he shared his screwy views on racism in boxing late last year. I’ve got better, more constructive things to do with my time (like clip my toenails).

Here’s the bottom line on Mayweather and his diehard fan boys: they’re dips__ts. It’s a complete waste of time debating or arguing with them. (By the way, I agree that Mayweather at his best at welterweight could have beaten the prime 147-pound version of Cotto, although it would have been a very tough fight; and I agree that Williams and Margarito were just too big, too rough and way too busy for him to outpoint.)

I also agree with the differences you pointed out in the styles of Brook, Mayweather and Ward. Such observations are completely wasted on Floyd-huggers and “the Mental Ward.”

Finally, if Mayweather’s and Ward’s devout followers believe GGG was “exposed” by Brook they should encourage their heroes to get in the ring with the unified middleweight champ. Easy money, right? LOL. And if Mayweather is truly retired, then he should have no problem putting his super middleweight titleholder Badou Jack in with GGG. If “little bitty” Brook supposedly gave Golovkin fits, a solid super middleweight should have his way with GGG. Right?

As for Ward, I don’t think Golovkin is the fighter he need concern himself with right now. I have no idea why he continues to indulge goof-ball interviewers that continue to bring up GGG when he’s got the fight of his career coming up on Nov. 19. I know why his diehard fans are obsessed with GGG. (I wonder if they do?)

Your Aaron Pryor mythical matchups (all at 140):

Pryor vs Chavez – Pryor by close, maybe maj./split decision (great fight)

Pryor vs Duran – Duran by close decision, maybe late TKO (great fight)

Pryor vs Meldrick Taylor – Pryor by late TKO

Pryor vs Tszyu – Pryor by late TKO

Pryor vs Whitaker – Pryor by close, maybe controversial decision

Pryor vs Pacquaio – Pryor by close, maybe split decision (great fight)

Pryor vs Mayweather – Pryor by competitive but clear decision

Pryor vs Mosley – Pryor by close, maybe split decision (great fight)

Pryor vs De La Hoya – De La Hoya by close but clear decision

Also, how would he have done at 147 vs Hearns and Leonard? Hearns avenges his amateur loss with a mid-round KO; SRL stops The Hawk late.

hazharrison

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Post by AdamT on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 10:37 pm

Joe Louis beat bums too.

Face it. GGG didn't have the stones to fight Ward. He would of been embarrassed.

Can't wait until Canelo beats this hype job.

AdamT

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Post by hazharrison on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 10:58 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:1. Hearns most probably but he didn't whereas Duran it's unlikely, brilliant as was up until Montreal thereafter he was decidedly average with the odd moment of genius sprinkled here and there.

2. I'll use your Duran logic for the Hagler, ignore form going in to the fight and say that the specific night he fought Monzon he was superb.

3. I've not missed the point at all Haz, you seem to mistake being a big name with being a big fight when it's not, simply put Valdes is the most significant fight either of them had and unlike Hagler in his he won. It doesn't fit your agenda so you try and ignore those fights, whenever you do your silly comparisons he's never included and instead you focus on his other opposition.

1. And if he'd turned up against Minter?
2. He had clearly slipped, though, and never won another fight. Duran was great either side of Hagler (as erratic as he was - more due to his appetite than the fact he'd faded in the manner Nino did).
3. You've missed it again. I'm talking biggest fights rather than toughest opponent. You seem to have tied yourself in a knot with that one?

Duran, Leonard and Hearns were ATGs who put in great performances against Hagler. As good as Valdes was (and he was very good - perhaps not the terminator you make him out to be mind you) he wasn't an ATG.

I'm also not convinced Valdes was more significant fight than Hearns.


Last edited by hazharrison on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 11:00 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by hazharrison on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 10:59 pm

AdamT wrote:Joe Louis beat bums too.

Face it. GGG didn't have the stones to fight Ward. He would of been embarrassed.

Can't wait until Canelo beats this hype job.

Ah, so Joe Louis one dimensional? Got you thumbsup

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Post by AdamT on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 11:37 pm

GGG is certainly one dimensional. His best win as a fighter with one good win on his record. Not to mention that fighter came from 147.

GGG is a bum.

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Post by AdamT on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 11:37 pm

His one good win is Brook. Laughable really.

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Post by milkyboy on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 7:27 am

Benvenuti probably hadn't faded so much as started to lose his desire and certainly focus... Certainly in none title fights. On that basis you can say he wasn't 'prime' and that monzon was his last hurrah really, but he wasn't washed up... As the fight showed...Just a classic changing of the guard moment.

Did hearns put in a great performance against hagler? Maybe Hagler gave him no choice, (I suspect stylistically, any strategy from Tommy would have fallen short) but Tommy committed suicide. It's regarded as a great fight, but not sure it was a great performance from Tommy. Duran and Leonard certainly put in excellent performances under the circumstances.

If you're comparing reigns, Surely the relevant fact is not biggest name nor toughest fight (in terms of how it panned out) but most credible/calibre of opponent. Marv's names were the other 3 of the fab 4 moving up. Huge names but not at their best at the weight. Carlos fought more better middles - just because there were more to fight in his reign than marv's. Normally, fights v guys of the same weight class is something you give great credence to haz.

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Post by hazharrison on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 9:33 am

milkyboy wrote:Benvenuti probably hadn't faded so much as started to lose his desire and certainly focus... Certainly in none title fights. On that basis you can say he wasn't 'prime' and that monzon was his last hurrah really, but he wasn't washed up... As the fight showed...Just a classic changing of the guard moment.

Did hearns put in a great performance against hagler? Maybe Hagler gave him no choice, (I suspect stylistically, any strategy from Tommy would have fallen short) but Tommy committed suicide. It's regarded as a great fight, but not sure it was a great performance from Tommy. Duran and Leonard certainly put in excellent performances under the circumstances.

If you're comparing reigns, Surely the relevant fact is not biggest name nor toughest fight (in terms of how it panned out) but most credible/calibre of opponent. Marv's names were the other 3 of the fab 4 moving up. Huge names but not at their best at the weight. Carlos fought more better middles - just because there were more to fight in his reign than marv's. Normally, fights v guys of the same weight class is something you give great credence to haz.

Ok, if we take out the guys who moved up we're left with something like this (may not be fully accurate as I'm half asleep):

Hagler

Minter
Obelmejias
Antuofermo
Hamsho
Lee
Obelmejias
Sibson
Scypion
Roldan
Hamsho

Monzon

Moyer
Bouttier
Bogs
Briscoe
Bouttier
Mundine
Licata
Tonna
Valdez
Valdez

Maybe Valdez swings it? Maybe. Still don't think there's much to separate them there, though.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 10:16 am

We'll forget that Haglers reign ended in defeat as opposed to Monzon retiring as champion.

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Post by milkyboy on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 10:24 am

I'm not trying to claim i know the full works on all the Monzon challengers but, the ones I do know of:
- Benvenuti we've discussed
- Bouttier was a tough good fighter,
- Briscoe was in his prime, not past it, as when he fought Hagler
- Tonna was a hard punching tough fighter who had a rep for lacking a bit of heart... based on him seemingly looking for a way out (dq) in both valdes and monzon fights but in his prime, beat a prime kevin finnegan and was 1-1 with Minter. Maybe a bit of a roldan/hamsho.
- Valdes we've discussed.

I'd agree it's not a who's who, but valdes especially and benvenuti tip it for me.




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Post by hazharrison on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 12:40 pm

milkyboy wrote:I'm not trying to claim i know the full works on all the Monzon challengers but, the ones I do know of:
- Benvenuti we've discussed
- Bouttier was a tough good fighter,
- Briscoe was in his prime, not past it, as when he fought Hagler
- Tonna was a hard punching tough fighter who had a rep for lacking a bit of heart... based on him seemingly looking for a way out (dq) in both valdes and monzon fights but in his prime, beat a prime kevin finnegan and was 1-1 with Minter. Maybe a bit of a roldan/hamsho.
- Valdes we've discussed.

I'd agree it's not a who's who, but valdes especially and benvenuti tip it for me.




I defo know more about Hagler's oppo than Monzon's - will have to read up a bit more. I haven't seen anything of Tonna, for instance. I really rate Finnegan, so that's a big tick in the box for me.

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Post by milkyboy on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 1:08 pm

I remember watching the tonna minter fights as a kid, I think in the first Minter was ahead but lost on cuts... a common problem... minter won the return. Don't recall the finnegan fight, though think finnegan won a return years later when both were probably a bit past their best.

Shame there's no footage of Finnegan Hagler 1... meant to have been an absolute barnstormer, with, hard as it is to believe, Finnegan the one who was coming on strong late on before the cuts stoppage. One tough lad, and liked fighting southpaws.

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