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Farewell B-Hop

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Post by Guest on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 5:27 pm

Bernard Hopkins is to finally call time on his career with a farewell fight against Joe Smith Jr on December 17th in LA

Smith recently beat Fonfara who beat Chavez Jr and has been picked as Hopkins' 65th and final opponent.

Bittersweet news for those who will be glad he's retiring but saddened that he feels he needs one more fight before heading of into the sunset.

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Post by Mr Bounce on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 8:16 pm

The man has nothing to prove. He'll do his usual and fight for 1 minute out of 3, frustrate his opponent, tie him up, make him miss and win ugly, same as he's been doing for years. It ain't pretty, but it is effective.

Trying to remember his last KO victim - was it ODLH?? Just checked - it was. It was 12 years ago...

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Post by AdamT on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 8:20 pm

The best mw since Monzon. Jones better h2h, but Hopkins ability mixed with longevity does it for me.

Great Lh as well. Didn't take too many beatings.

Real throw back. Wasn't easy on the eye at tines, but a crafty, shrewd fighter.

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Post by AdamT on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 8:21 pm

Wasn't scared too move up and challenge himself. Sure, he fought a couple of popular guys smaller, but he had The nuts to move up.

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Post by Atila on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 8:45 pm

AdamT wrote:The best mw since Monzon. Jones better h2h, but Hopkins ability mixed with longevity does it for me.

Great Lh as well. Didn't take too many beatings.

Real throw back. Wasn't easy on the eye at tines, but a crafty, shrewd fighter.
Hopkins accomplishments in his later years seems to have improved his middleweight standing. Apart from Trinidad, I can't remember getting excited about any of his fights at middle.

Good luck to him though when he retires.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 8:45 pm

Never been a Survivor like Hopkins since Starling retired...

Gifted in both the light arts and the dark arts...Never seen a guy who could repeatedly hold while making it look like he was being held...

A great middleweight in his own right before you add the rest...

Liked him to have retired a few years ago but he still has his faculties and if someone dropped a nuclear bomb he'd probably survive it..

If one does drop I'm sharing a bunker with him and Starling...

Last of a dying breed..

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 10:06 pm

Never been stopped or really bashed up considering his opposition must be best middleweight since Hagler don't know how anyone, based purely on record, can place Bernard above Marvin at middleweight though

His accomplishments above middleweight have raised his standing no end unlike Floyd was willing to push himself to the max and take on his greatest test in Kovalev Floyd wanted nothing of Golovkin definitely an atg no question personally got more respect for Bernard than Floyd look at who Floyd could have boxed Thurman Brook Porter really good welterweights instead of Ortiz, Maidana Berto Guerrero etc could have boxed Andrade Golovkin Floyd's resume could have been so much better when you look back at it really was risk-averse Floyd you could never put him in a top ten on his opposition Mosley way past his best Manny five years too late Alvarez weight drained outweighed Marquez Oscar past his best it ducked Marg retired when it was time to fight Cotto later to take on Miguel post Tony was always something with Floyd Hatton a light welterweight as was Maidana Guerrero a lightweight etc how many truly great wins does Floyd really have


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Post by hazharrison on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 11:12 pm

Herman Jaeger wrote:Never been stopped or really bashed up considering his opposition must be best middleweight since Hagler don't know how anyone, based purely on record, can place Bernard above Marvin at middleweight though

His accomplishments above middleweight have raised his standing no end unlike Floyd was willing to push himself to the max and take on his greatest test in Kovalev Floyd wanted nothing of Golovkin definitely an atg no question personally got more respect for Bernard than Floyd look at who Floyd could have boxed Thurman Brook Porter really good welterweights instead of Ortiz, Maidana Berto Guerrero etc could have boxed Andrade Golovkin Floyd's resume could have been so much better when you look back at it really was risk-averse Floyd you could never put him in a top ten on his opposition Mosley way past his best Manny five years too late Alvarez weight drained outweighed Marquez Oscar past his best it ducked Marg retired when it was time to fight Cotto later to take on Miguel post Tony was always something with Floyd Hatton a light welterweight as was Maidana Guerrero a lightweight  etc how many truly great wins does Floyd really have


MY MAN!!!

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Post by AdamT on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 11:25 pm

Why is everything about Floyd? Two threads he has been brought into.

I get accused of obsession, but A Harrison you need help.

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Post by BoxingFan88 on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 11:26 pm

hazharrison wrote:
Herman Jaeger wrote:Never been stopped or really bashed up considering his opposition must be best middleweight since Hagler don't know how anyone, based purely on record, can place Bernard above Marvin at middleweight though

His accomplishments above middleweight have raised his standing no end unlike Floyd was willing to push himself to the max and take on his greatest test in Kovalev Floyd wanted nothing of Golovkin definitely an atg no question personally got more respect for Bernard than Floyd look at who Floyd could have boxed Thurman Brook Porter really good welterweights instead of Ortiz, Maidana Berto Guerrero etc could have boxed Andrade Golovkin Floyd's resume could have been so much better when you look back at it really was risk-averse Floyd you could never put him in a top ten on his opposition Mosley way past his best Manny five years too late Alvarez weight drained outweighed Marquez Oscar past his best it ducked Marg retired when it was time to fight Cotto later to take on Miguel post Tony was always something with Floyd Hatton a light welterweight as was Maidana Guerrero a lightweight  etc how many truly great wins does Floyd really have


MY MAN!!!

Thats an overly negative spin on Floyd's career if ever I saw one.....

I mean Manny was past his best, but still beats most if not all the division on that night

GGG should never be on the radar of Floyd, he already moved up 5 weight classes

Alvarez might have been slightly drained, but it wouldn't have mattered, Floyd played with him for 12 rounds in a master class

Castillo, Coralles, Pacquiao, Cotto, Judah, Hatton

Pretty dam good names

Beating one of the best fighters of the last decade is a pretty big win...

Could he have been even greater with the talent he had? Absolutely

Could he have been even richer? Probably not

He is still one of the greatest fighters I have ever had the pleasure of watching, contrary to what people think, I love watching Floyd fight, I always have

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Post by AdamT on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 11:30 pm

Fair play boxing88, was wrong about you.

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Post by AdamT on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 11:31 pm

We both know Manny and Floyd are head and shoulders above anybody like GGG.

Boxing will miss two real atg fighters.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 12:03 am

Brook Thurman and Porter would all have been sterner tests than Berto Guerrero Ortiz sterner than Hatton too sterner certainly than old Shane probably sterner than a yet to acclimatise at the weight Marquez sterner than Maidana for sure sterner than a Marg battered Cotto Floyd was good but surely his fans must admit that he avoided the real welterweights avoided Tony too when Tony had just beaten Miguel and the fight was primed just coincidence that the names he avoided were the best welterweights out there? who knows, maybe his fans will say he didn't need to fight the real welterweights...

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Post by 88Chris05 on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 1:30 am

Brings to an end what has been arguably the most compelling career of recent times. Say what you like about Hopkins' serial stinker reputation (not totally unjustified, it has to be said!) but he's got a phenomenal CV and he's a truly remarkable character who probably commands the respect of fans and his fellow fighters more than anyone else around.

Wonderful Middleweight champion, and a pretty handy Light-Heavyweight one as well. Who'd have thought that, after losing on his pro debut and then being soundly beaten by Jones and decked twice in a draw against Mercado in his first two world title bouts, that we'd be here well over two decades later debating just how far up the all-time lists he belongs?

I think Hopkins' longevity, strangely, has actually harmed his standing in a weird way with some fans, as they look at his post-Middleweight style and take that as being indicative of his whole career. I tend to view him as an amazing adapter and tactician who just formulated a way to get results no matter how stacked against him the odds seemed to be, and did what he had to do facing guys young enough to be his son.

If you take more than a cursory glance you'll see that his fights against 'Road Warrior' Johnson, Trinidad and Pavlik prove that he could take dangerous opponents apart with plenty of style and class when he needed to, and his ability to keep reviving his career with improbable victories when being written off by all and sundry will always make him a nostalgic kind of favourite of mine, even if it's more to do with his roguish underdog status than his actual fighting performance at times.

Trinidad, Tarver, Pavlik, Pascal...He just kept doing it. A true all-time great and while I wish he'd have called it quits immediately after Kovalev (I wouldn't be particularly shocked if he loses this, not that it'll matter one jot to his legacy) I hope he gets the plaudits his amazing accomplishments deserve.

Happy retirement to the man.
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Post by Herman Jaeger on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 8:17 am

Hopkins boxed a who's who of his axis bar Ward and definitely chased fights with Froch and Golovkin I don't know about Stevenson but who cares Kovalev would have smashed him. So boxed virtually everyone there was to box got a few losses but when you take on a high level of opponent on a consistent basis that surely is to be expected

Floyd's got the 'o' but look how much better his resume could have been I personally would have loved to have seen a fight with Brook, a fight with Cotto when Miguel was unbeaten and that fight was primed, a fight with Margarito when that too was primed, a fight with Pacquaio directly after Hatton when it was primed and before the former was battered off Marquez. I'd like to have seen him box his mandatory Thurman. Williams would have been a very interesting test stylistically. Why move up for Alvarez but ignore Andrade again another hugely interesting clash stylistically. Why not box Lara again a very interesting match. Don't mention Golovkin Floyd Sr's already admitted they swerved him.

For me no comparison between Hopkins and Mayweather when it comes to matchmaking. One consistently went after the best. The other was hesitant and calculating and you can say often looked to time his opponents.

No question Floyd's resume could have been better(not many slick boxers on it) considerably better in fact you can't really say that for Bernard. Floyd will no doubt get rated higher but for me Hopkins' resume is superior as I say only really ducked Ward boxed them when they were at the top of their game too never weasled

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Post by AdamT on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 8:26 am

So Floyd never fought the best?? Haha

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Post by AdamT on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 8:27 am

Trolling at it's best.


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Post by Herman Jaeger on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 8:34 am

Very cute when it came to matchmaking no question preferred choice was the boxer who came at him in straight lines consistently swerved the boxers

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Post by AdamT on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 8:40 am

Whatever man. Go watch GGG fight more bin men. I'm sure there are still a few weighing 160 running around.

If he's stuck for an opponent, he could always drag Crawford up. It would be his toughest fight yet.

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Post by milkyboy on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 8:47 am

88Chris05 wrote:Brings to an end what has been arguably the most compelling career of recent times. Say what you like about Hopkins' serial stinker reputation (not totally unjustified, it has to be said!) but he's got a phenomenal CV and he's a truly remarkable character who probably commands the respect of fans and his fellow fighters more than anyone else around.

Wonderful Middleweight champion, and a pretty handy Light-Heavyweight one as well. Who'd have thought that, after losing on his pro debut and then being soundly beaten by Jones and decked twice in a draw against Mercado in his first two world title bouts, that we'd be here well over two decades later debating just how far up the all-time lists he belongs?

I think Hopkins' longevity, strangely, has actually harmed his standing in a weird way with some fans, as they look at his post-Middleweight style and take that as being indicative of his whole career. I tend to view him as an amazing adapter and tactician who just formulated a way to get results no matter how stacked against him the odds seemed to be, and did what he had to do facing guys young enough to be his son.

If you take more than a cursory glance you'll see that his fights against 'Road Warrior' Johnson, Trinidad and Pavlik prove that he could take dangerous opponents apart with plenty of style and class when he needed to, and his ability to keep reviving his career with improbable victories when being written off by all and sundry will always make him a nostalgic kind of favourite of mine, even if it's more to do with his roguish underdog status than his actual fighting performance at times.

Trinidad, Tarver, Pavlik, Pascal...He just kept doing it. A true all-time great and while I wish he'd have called it quits immediately after Kovalev (I wouldn't be particularly shocked if he loses this, not that it'll matter one jot to his legacy) I hope he gets the plaudits his amazing accomplishments deserve.

Happy retirement to the man.

Nice post chris. He certainly wasn't always pretty on the eye, and he was happy to just do enough in fights... Shockers like Eastman spring to mind, but he had the ability when he wanted to. His destruction of Trinidad is as fine a piece of work as you could wish to see.

Special thanks to Herman for a gratuitous early introduction of Floyd into the thread.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 8:59 am

GGG been calling Floyd for four years Adam but Floyd Sr always very dismissive of the fight only now safe in retirement has Floyd Sr admitted Golovkin too good admitted his son swerved him

Dismissive of Thurman too like he wasn't worthy but no problems with giving Berto Maidana Guerreo Ortiz a fight?

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Post by AdamT on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 9:20 am

GGG is 160. Why doesn't he fight Ward?? Scared??

Floyd has moved five weights. GGG is scared to move any.

In my eyes he is a coward.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 9:29 am

Two great fighters all I'm saying is Bernard took on virtually everyone Floyd picked cherries

When the dust has settled, in maybe twenty years from now wouldn't surprise me an undue amount if Hopkins was rated higher. Resume at the end of the day

No doubt Floyd the more talented though the most talented fighter of his generation

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Post by AdamT on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 9:30 am

Fair enoug.

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Post by mobilemaster8 on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 9:51 am

Sad times for boxing with Bhop leaving - remember his masterclass against Pavlik - one of his finest performances.

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Post by huw on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 10:19 am

Herman Jaeger wrote:GGG been calling Floyd for four years Adam but Floyd Sr always very dismissive of the fight only now safe in retirement has Floyd Sr admitted Golovkin too good admitted his son swerved him

Dismissive of Thurman too like he wasn't worthy but no problems with giving Berto Maidana Guerreo Ortiz a fight?

I'm usually one of Floyds biggest critics but GGG although not as good a boxer as Floyd is a very good boxer and this with the extra weight is too much for him. A boxer should have limits and not fighting fighters that were closer to his weight at a time the fights would have been at least closer is something that can be thrown at him.

So many of Floyds fights were considered close affairs when the matches were made and people have become very judgemental of them when using hindsight.

Back to the original post, I hope Hopkins can have a happy retirement. A proper legend in a sport that has the word thrown around far too often.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 10:43 am

Everyone is entitled to puke on Mayweather's record..

Just a bit rich when GGG fans do it..

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Post by AdamT on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 11:12 am

I agree Truss.

If you're a genuine Pacquiao fan, you can have a debate. But GGG? Really?

He's near 70 years old and still fought no one.

He's a big hitter and cuts off the ring superbly. I'm not as big an idiot as Andrew and can give credit were it's due.

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Post by mobilemaster8 on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 11:14 am

AdamT wrote:I agree Truss.

If you're a genuine Pacquiao fan, you can have a debate. But GGG? Really?

He's near 70 years old and still fought no one.

He's a big hitter and cuts off the ring superbly. I'm not as big an idiot as Andrew and can give credit were it's due.


Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy loves an exaggeration!

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 11:16 am

In my estimation, normally cherry pickers aren't quite as good as they would like you to believe

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 11:19 am

D4 was a Manny fan......Think BoxingFan88 had Manny winning in slow motion...

Apologies if i'm wrong..

Herman you're being silly...Floyd was a cherrypicker but he has a great record..


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Post by Herman Jaeger on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 11:21 am

Compared to Hopkins?

Do me a favour...

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Post by AdamT on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 11:21 am

Cherry pickers? Man I don't want to be rude, but are you a bit Slow?

Name GGG top ten opponents. No wait, I'll make it easy for you. Name his top 5 opponents, regardless of weight, or age and I'll do the same for Floyd.

Who has the better resume?

In fact forget it. Brook would be a cherry pick on Floyd's record, yet he is GGG's biggest name! Got to love it hahaha!

Good day to you!
I

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 11:23 am

Okay Herman..

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 11:29 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Okay Herman..


So we are in agreement?

Hopkins has more names the better resume and his best opponents were more prime..

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Post by AdamT on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 11:33 am

He might have. Matter of opinion.

Does he have more comprehensive losses on his record? That's a fact.

Could Hopkins beat someone like Manny?

Would Floyd lose to a Taylor, or calzaghe?

You know the answers.

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Post by AdamT on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 11:37 am

I'm a bhop fan so not going to sh1t on him

One of my favourite fighters and a living great. The last great Mw champion.


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Post by BoxingFan88 on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 11:44 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:D4 was a Manny fan......Think BoxingFan88 had Manny winning in slow motion...

Apologies if i'm wrong..

Herman you're being silly...Floyd was a cherrypicker but he has a great record..


I said it was closer and that Pacquiao did a lot better than you thought he did

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 11:50 am

Easier to keep your zero taking on the likes of Ortiz Guerrero Maidana Berto surely..

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Post by AdamT on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 11:53 am

Pacquiao was competitive in every round bar the first couple.

Rounds were close. Don't matter now. Nobody else currently would of beat them that night.

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Post by AdamT on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 11:54 am

What about keeping your zero fighting Geale, Monroe and Macklin?

Please don't dodge the question Herman?


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Post by AdamT on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 11:55 am

The troll has been fed. Time to go!!

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 11:59 am

Can't really knock Golovkin's resume when so many fighters have ducked him

He hasn't turned down fights for lesser opponents

Floyd made a career of it...

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 12:01 pm

Clinton Mitchell 3-1-1...Beat Hopkins in his first pro fight..

Nice little story for him..

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Post by AdamT on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 12:05 pm

Lose his first fight and then never losses again unto Jones Jr.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 12:07 pm

Herman Jaeger wrote:In my estimation, normally cherry pickers aren't quite as good as they would like you to believe

Interesting statement Herman. ...You want to throw out some examples of cherrypickers that claim to be better than they are..

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 12:09 pm

Haven't got time sorry

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Post by huw on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 12:10 pm

AdamT wrote:He might have. Matter of opinion.

Does he have more comprehensive losses on his record? That's a fact.

Could Hopkins beat someone like Manny?

Would Floyd lose to a Taylor, or calzaghe?

You know the answers.

A Calzaghe around Floyds weight would have given him problems. Very strong chin, very fast hands and very busy.

Floyd was exceptional but I could see this fight in a similar vein to the Oscar fight only Oscar didn't have the Calzaghe engine. Many people have commented that the way to beat Floyd was to throw lots of punches and outwork him, a Calzaghe type fighter would have done that.

Hopkins could have frustrated a Manny and spoilt his game completely, enough to have won on points.

You are talking as if there is only one answer to your question when you are asking an impossible question to answer as there is no proof either way and opinions are going to differ depending upon what you see as a fighters strengths and weaknesses..

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 12:17 pm

I'd pick Curry and Breland to beat Floyd comfortably...

I'd pick the Honey that beat Curry.....and Starling as well as the two above to beat Manny at 147...


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Post by smashingstormcrow on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 12:29 pm

Herman Jaeger wrote:Brook Thurman and Porter would all have been sterner tests than Berto Guerrero Ortiz

Those guys only really became prominent towards the very end of Floyd's career. The window when they would have been viable opponents is very small. Although I agree that Berto was a disappointing choice.

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