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Floyd vs GGG

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Post by AdamT on Fri 21 Oct 2016, 10:33 am

First topic message reminder :

Ok it isn't going to happen. But lets just say for arguments sake it does.

If Floyd were to face GGG at 154 and win, or even lose a very competitive fight, Were would you then rank him? For the people that think he is a cherry picker, would you place him higher? Or does GGG just become a hype job that Brook already showed in moments of their fight??

Robert Garcia and Freddie Roach both think Floyd could win. I don't think he would win at 160, but I think he could pull off the upset at 154.

This isn't a wind up article. I'm genuinely interested in any replies.

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Post by AdamT on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 11:06 am

I don't see you telling people to stop mentioning Floyd avoiding GGG boxing88??

Ward called him out recently, what are you talking about??

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 11:38 am

milkyboy wrote:Really hermy. Golovkin prepared to make 154 for the dollars against a guy he dwarfs. But not for anyone else. His team mouth off about fighting super middles but don't. He wants to unify middle, so why call out Welters.

Who'd win? If GGG can make 154 without too much adverse effect he's way too big for Floyd. Alvarez didn't have the footwork golovkin does.

But then the reason why 'everyone wanted the fight' is because people want to see Floyd stretched on the canvas. The idea it's s fair fight is risible. One guy is a fully fledged middle. The other guy is a light welter by modern standards who enters the ring at just above the welter limit, irrespective of the size of his opponent. He'd be giving away probably over a stone on fight night, to a very destructive puncher. Yes he did it against Alvarez. Yes he was selective over who he fought at light middle. The guy started at super feather and enters the ring at around 150. P***y ducker that he is.


Agree with that milky never said it was a fair fight never really called for the fight myself but seeing as Floyd constantly keeps telling us what he'd do to Golovkin it's starting to leave a bitter taste that he isn't willing to prove it

Either put up or shut up..

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Post by BoxingFan88 on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 11:38 am

Ward is trying to raise his profile he can't stop mentioning ggg

Ggg would have to move up 2 weight classes

Ive already addressed that multiple times I said it's stupid to ask Floyd to move up after he already moved up 5 classes


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Post by BoxingFan88 on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 11:39 am

Ggg wanted the Floyd fight to make himself a ppv star that's all

Heck Andre ward tried to get the Floyd fight

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Post by Atila on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 12:49 pm

BoxingFan88 wrote:Ggg wanted the Floyd fight to make himself a ppv star that's all

Heck Andre ward tried to get the Floyd fight
I think even B-Hop offered to make 160lb again if Floyd would fight him.

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Post by milkyboy on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 1:06 pm

BF. The version of events you describe is through team Golovkin's eyes. There's another version of that story... And it's been discussed at length before. But amongst all the he said/she said stuff... team golovkin did get an offer, Which they declined because they wanted Alvarez (fair enough)... They also did ask for 164 catchweight having said they'd fight anyone at super middle. They play the game like everyone else and Abel Sanchez is s bullsh*tter.

Ward is a smarmy git and I'd have wanted golovkin to win, but there were talks before ward moved up... Since he's now fighting kovalev we can maybe assume, he's not a sucker.

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Post by Atila on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 1:10 pm

milkyboy wrote:BF. The version of events you describe is through team Golovkin's eyes. There's another version of that story... And it's been discussed at length before. But amongst all the he said/she said stuff... team golovkin did get an offer, Which they declined because they wanted Alvarez (fair enough)... They also did ask for 164 catchweight having said they'd fight anyone at super middle. They play the game like everyone else and Abel Sanchez is s bullsh*tter.

Ward is a smarmy git and I'd have wanted golovkin to win, but there were talks before ward moved up... Since he's now fighting kovalev we can maybe assume, he's not a sucker.
You mean a ducker? Though I'll admit, he could end up looking like a sucker if Kovalev gives him a whuppin'.

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Post by milkyboy on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 1:11 pm

Herman Jaeger wrote:
milkyboy wrote:Really hermy. Golovkin prepared to make 154 for the dollars against a guy he dwarfs. But not for anyone else. His team mouth off about fighting super middles but don't. He wants to unify middle, so why call out Welters.

Who'd win? If GGG can make 154 without too much adverse effect he's way too big for Floyd. Alvarez didn't have the footwork golovkin does.

But then the reason why 'everyone wanted the fight' is because people want to see Floyd stretched on the canvas. The idea it's s fair fight is risible. One guy is a fully fledged middle. The other guy is a light welter by modern standards who enters the ring at just above the welter limit, irrespective of the size of his opponent. He'd be giving away probably over a stone on fight night, to a very destructive puncher. Yes he did it against Alvarez. Yes he was selective over who he fought at light middle. The guy started at super feather and enters the ring at around 150. P***y ducker that he is.


Agree with that milky never said it was a fair fight never really called for the fight myself but seeing as Floyd constantly keeps telling us what he'd do to Golovkin it's starting to leave a bitter taste that he isn't willing to prove it

Either put up or shut up..

Fair enough hermy, I don't read what Floyd says if I can avoid it, so if he's been mouthing off about it, I understand your point.

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Post by milkyboy on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 1:13 pm

Atila wrote:
milkyboy wrote:BF. The version of events you describe is through team Golovkin's eyes. There's another version of that story... And it's been discussed at length before. But amongst all the he said/she said stuff... team golovkin did get an offer, Which they declined because they wanted Alvarez (fair enough)... They also did ask for 164 catchweight having said they'd fight anyone at super middle. They play the game like everyone else and Abel Sanchez is s bullsh*tter.

Ward is a smarmy git and I'd have wanted golovkin to win, but there were talks before ward moved up... Since he's now fighting kovalev we can maybe assume, he's not a sucker.
You mean a ducker? Though I'll admit, he could end up looking like a sucker if Kovalev gives him a whuppin'.

Yup a typo, though i do think he's a sucker of something

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Post by catchweight on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 1:20 pm

Theres not a hope of Mayweather would ever have moved up a division to fight somebody like Andre Ward either. He wouldnt even face the toughest fighters in his own division.

Mayweather was fantastic below welterweight, and you got to see the best of him before he started to evolve into a risk averse fighter in and out of the ring.

I think his welterweight record flatters him as a fighter. Without a doubt a matter of careful money based selctivity. He never really fought the top weltwerweights of his era when they were anything close to their best. Pacquiao, Cotto, Bradely, Williams, Margarito etc We got a pretty faded Mosley, De la Hoya and Pacquio. Alavarez was maybe the one big risk he took (for record amounts of money).

Had an Andre Ward been operating in or around Mayweather at that stage you can be 100% sure Mayweather wouldnt have been interested.

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Post by Happytravelling on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 1:55 pm

I agree catchy.

Once he didn't have to take risks and challenges he pretty much refused to. It took a while for him to become ppv. That changed a lot of things.

People talking about Floyd not moving up ignore that pacman started at flyweight and moved up 8 divisions. Despite that, and being 3" shorter and with 5"less reach Floyd insisted fighting him the max weight possible to increase his advantage further.

Even when Floyd has all the cards, he still loads the deck.

For what it's worth, GGG is a small MW. His come forward style can be nullified with power and being kept at distance. He's 5'10" and 70" reach. Nearly all the SMWs are taller and got greater reach. The likes of Degale will simply keep him at distance etc.

GGG is exceptional but I think his team know that his size is a real weakness.

That said, it hasn't stopped some of the greats. Pacman himself is only 5'5" etc.

On the other hand, Floyd was relatively tall and his style carries up the weights better

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Post by AdamT on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 1:59 pm

Why do you boys hate Mayweather so much??

You are all very sad!!

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Post by Atila on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 2:30 pm

AdamT wrote:Why do you boys hate Mayweather so much??

You are all very sad!!
Often, when you feel a fighter is overrated and you are continually having them shoved in your face, the natural reaction is to take a dislike to that fighter. I know for this reason, I hated McGuigan when I was a kid and later on, took a serious dislike to Hatton and his fans.

I don't hate Floyd, but he's not someone I'd go out of my way to meet and I wouldn't give a sheet if he came back and got beat. Though I do admit, I wanted him to beat Pacquiao.

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Post by AdamT on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 2:48 pm

Overrated?? The best fighter of his generation.

How is he overrated? I don't understand.

You do realise more on here underrate him, than overrate him??

I'm starting to think Andrew has about 15 accounts.

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Post by catchweight on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 2:49 pm

I dont like Mayweather because aside from being a general ar$ehole and generally boring for most of his career, he spent too long being totally risk averse and avoided the kind of fights that really embodies greatness. The Pacquiao affair summed up Mayweather perfectly. Another cash rich but cynically made and dull fight made way past its due date where all his fans blow smoke up his ar$e over a supposed masterclass.

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Post by AdamT on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 2:49 pm

catchweight wrote:I dont like Mayweather because aside from being a general ar$ehole and generally boring for most of his career, he spent too long being totally risk averse and avoided the kind of fights that really embodies greatness. The Pacquiao affair summed up Mayweather perfectly. Another cash rich but cynically made and dull fight made way past its due date where all his fans blow smoke up his ar$e over a supposed masterclass.

Ok

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Post by milkyboy on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 2:50 pm

... But as a man who hates the whole day before weigh-in, rehydration stuff catchy, surely you'd agree that Floyd by modern standards wasn't a welterweight. He took a view that he wanted to fight at a 'natural' weight he felt comfortable at... Which meant 147, and fight night weight typically 150 or under. That's less than plenty of light Welters. His choice of course.

I get the argument that as welterweight champion you should fight your best challengers and I do think he was selective. I also agree that he grew into this money making monster who controlled who his opponents were, a privelege not afforded to others. Some of this coulda shoulda stuff about fighting the bigger guys though is a witch hunt.

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Post by AdamT on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 2:52 pm

Least he's not in a division full of stiffs and made moves to fight real names.

I wouldn't mind people hating Floyd and looking up to a Leonard, or Ali or something. But GGG?? Really????

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Post by catchweight on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 2:57 pm

I dont particularly disagree. Mayweather was fantastic below welterweight. At welterweight, I think hes overrated. Im not sold he would beat even Trinidad, or peak versions of Mosley or de l Hoya never mind the Leonards, Hearns, Whitakers, Durans, Chavez etc who all actually took on their chief rivals which is what testing greatness is all about. Not picking and choosing who and when to fight.

There was no major weigth issue preventing him taking on Pacquiao. That whole episode was a disgrace. Chavez fought Whitaker, Leonard fought Hearns and Duran, de la hoya fought Trinidad etc etc.


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Post by Atila on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 3:00 pm

AdamT wrote:Overrated?? The best fighter of his generation.

How is he overrated? I don't understand.

You do realise more on here underrate him, than overrate him??

I'm starting to think Andrew has about 15 accounts.
When I say overrated, I'm talking about in all time great terms. Obviously he was a fantastic fighter with great skills. But for me, not up there with the SRR's, the Armstrong's, the Duran's or even though it pains me to say it, the Leonard's of this world.

Notice recently in The Ring's article about Greatest Living Fighters, Floyd ranked 7th (behind your favourite Hagler Very Happy ), but some would have us believe Floyd the greatest fighter around.

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Post by milkyboy on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 3:01 pm

Happytravelling wrote:I agree catchy.

Once he didn't have to take risks and challenges he pretty much refused to. It took a while for him to become ppv. That changed a lot of things.

People talking about Floyd not moving up ignore that pacman started at flyweight and moved up 8 divisions. Despite that, and being 3" shorter and with 5"less reach Floyd insisted fighting him the max weight possible to increase his advantage further.

Even when Floyd has all the cards, he still loads the deck.

For what it's worth, GGG is a small MW. His come forward style can be nullified with power and being kept at distance. He's 5'10" and 70" reach. Nearly all the SMWs are taller and got greater reach. The likes of Degale will simply keep him at distance etc.

GGG is exceptional but I think his team know that his size is a real weakness.

That said, it hasn't stopped some of the greats. Pacman himself is only 5'5" etc.

On the other hand, Floyd was relatively tall and his style carries up the weights better

Never bought this small middle bit with golovkin. Yep plenty of the supermids are taller, but 5'10 isn't particularly short... It's about frame anyway... He never looks small in the ring. Jones, Toney, Eubank Benn etc all similar size or shorter, didn't look lost moving up from middle to super.

Golovkin isn't a big middle who has to shed loads of weight to make it... But he still has to shift a fair bit. He's a fully fledged middle.

As for manny. Yep he shot through the weights, but he's an exception not the rule.

And as the guy who pulled most of the strings I do mainly blame Floyd for the fight not happening when it should have... And it does effect his legacy.

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Post by catchweight on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 3:01 pm

I think some people feel that beccause a fighter is good you are under some sort of obligation to worship them.

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Post by milkyboy on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 3:25 pm

Can't stand Floyd as a human being. Completely get people reacting to claims of him being the greatest etc. A lot of the criticism is fair, I just think there's a classic case of it going too far the other way.

I like golovkin, and recognise that not being American, British or Mexican it's hard for him to have got the fights. But I have sympathy with those who find the irony of reading Floyd get slated when GGG gets a pass for talking big then fighting brook etc.

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Post by catchweight on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 3:39 pm

I dont really find it ironic at all. Its just a failure to recognise the completely different positions both fighters are in.

Mayweather could have fought whoever he wanted and chose to avoid a lot of them. Golovkin has been successively denied the chance to beat everyone in his division and his main rivals. Its chalk and cheese. I have yet to actually see anyone claim Golovkin has fought better opposition.

What I do find ironic is how people laud Bernard Hopkins for example as throwback fighter seemingly oblivious to the length of time it took him to actually get the big fights. How many rubbishy defences did he go through over the best part of a decade before he finally manouvered into position? The difference was his reputation wasnt as fearsome and the likes of de la Hoya and Trinidad and Holmes were willing to take a shot at him. Whereas the likes of Martinez, Cotto and Alvarez backed out. Hopkins didnt leaave the division to move up before landing these fights. He stayed as long as it took and he only left the division after being beaten twice by Taylor for all the titles with no other options left.

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Post by milkyboy on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 3:50 pm

I did and do recognise the different positions they are in. Golovkin's team have mouthed off about fighting anyone from 154-168. They refuse to get worked over on negotiations... So end up fighting nobodies for decent money. I entirely understand that. But they open their mouths to get column inches for their guy (mayweather ward).. Then follow the money... Like everybody else.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 3:51 pm

BoxingFan88 wrote:Would you stop talking about ward

I've told you so many times that fight could never have happened

Ward was fighting in courts rather than in the ring and it was all his own fault

He then sued his former promoter on his death bed despite the fact that his promoter did an amazing job for him

Ward mooted the fight for 168 in 2016 knowing full well he couldn't make the weight

This was after ggg already signed a fight

Try again

Golovkin stated he'll fight anyone between 154-168lbs but when it came to fighting Ward he wanted it at a catchweight, he talks a lot about fighting everyone but when it comes to it he's no different to anybody else.

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Post by AdamT on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 3:53 pm

Atila them lists will biased to old fighters.

Floyd will leapfrog Hagler in a decade.

The fab four my a##e. More like the fab 3.

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Post by catchweight on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 3:58 pm

I dont think thats true. Abel Sanchez talks bollox in the media. As for Golovkin himself and their promoter, they dont get embroiled in it much at all. I have read plenty of stuff from them which doesnt fit the profile of "mouthing off".They could whinge a lot more about whats going on. I think they have been as constuctive as they can in making the fights happen. They cant make people fight them. They have tried to, be closing off avenues in the world titles. Offers have been made to everybody in the division worth facing.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 4:02 pm

Golovkin's promotional team play up to the most avoided man tag as much as they can and I do not believe that they're as easy to work with as people would like to suggest, the Ward situation highlights that. Team GGG say they make offers to everyone and people believe but if anyone else says similar then they're lying.

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Post by catchweight on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 4:04 pm

He is one of the most avoided fighters out there. Thats a fact.

That people even have to start talking about fights in other divisions answers its own question.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 4:06 pm

It's not a fact, it's your opinion.

I personally think he's happy to play up to it and feast on less useful opponents for still decent money.

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Post by catchweight on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 4:09 pm

No it is a fact. You can think whatever nonsense you like. Its stark staring obvious that hes tried to secure fights with bigger names. Even opposition promoters dont deny it.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 4:11 pm

It's not a fact and your insistence that it is is based on nothing more than opinion and it is not at all obvious, you like I have not been part of any of his negotiations.

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Post by catchweight on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 4:15 pm

I dont really need to be because I have read rival promoters from di Bella to de la Hoya to Hearn to Arum admit as much.

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Post by BoxingFan88 on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 4:55 pm

Eddie Hearn "I rang up Darren Barker's trainer excited that I had secured him a world title shot and all the dude wanted was 20 ringside tickets! Tony Sims asked me what was his name, I said GGG and he put the phone down"

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Post by Atila on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 5:26 pm

AdamT wrote:Atila them lists will biased to old fighters.

Floyd will leapfrog Hagler in a decade.

The fab four my a##e. More like the fab 3.
I'll bite. Who are you kicking out of the Fab 4 to make it the Fab 3? Hagler?


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Post by AdamT on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 5:35 pm

Yes Hagler.

Also Catchweight how the hell is your opinion a fact. Don't be so egotistical.

I could say Floyd is top 10 'fact'. No that is my opinion, not fact.

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Post by Atila on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 5:40 pm

AdamT wrote:Yes Hagler.

Also Catchweight how the hell is your opinion a fact. Don't be so egotistical.

I could say Floyd is top 10 'fact'. No that is my opinion, not fact.
Fair enough, you're entitled to your opinion. But most would rate Hearns bottom of the Fab 4, and kick him out before Hagler.

Never seen Hagler rated below Hearns. Fact! Very Happy

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Post by AdamT on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 5:43 pm

Hearns is a multiweight champion.

Dusted Duran and got a draw off Leonard. Fact!!

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Post by AdamT on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 5:45 pm

All joking aside, Duran and Leonard are the only true greats of the four. Other two are very good though

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Post by catchweight on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 5:48 pm

Its a fact that Golovkin is avoided. Its not opinion at all. Alvarez vacated the title and left the division to avoid facing him. Lou di Bella has stated as a fact that he deliberately avoided making the Golovkin fight with Martinez. Arum tried make the fight with Chavez who wouldnt sign. Hearn tried to make the fight with Eubank who opted out. You would need to blind not see what has happened in the division. Hes been one of the most avoided fighters out there for years. I dont need some guys opinion on an internet board when I have seen the interviews and read the comments from the promoters themselves.

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Post by Atila on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 5:48 pm

AdamT wrote:Hearns is a multiweight champion.

Dusted Duran and got a draw off Leonard. Fact!!
Yep, he's a multi weight champ and he did dust Duran. Rolled him like a drunk as Truss would say.

I'm not in any way going to argue with you if you think Hearns should be rated higher. Don't agree with you though. Liked Hearns a lot and he's still, the most exciting fighter I've seen. OK

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Post by AdamT on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 5:55 pm

I rank Hagler a bit higher mate. Just stirring.

Though Hearns had the talent to rank higher than any of them.

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Post by B.A. BARACUS on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 8:56 pm

catchweight wrote:Golovkin would win for sure if he could make the weight properly. An old, pretty past it de la Hoya pushed Mayweather all the way at 154. Golovkin would hammer him.

Absolutely.

Recently revisited this fight and Oscar completely bossed the first half of the fight.

By round 6 he had built a formidable lead and looked on course to win a well deserved victory.

Unfortunately for the golden boy, he proceeded to lose all the remaining rounds and Floyd rightfully earned the win.

The question remains though - if a past it De La Hoya could push Mayweather so close what would GGG do to him.

I'd pick GGG to give him a spanking every day of the week


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Post by AdamT on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 9:06 pm

Oscar gave Mayorga a hammering before. Plus Floyd easily outlanded him.

Also Oscar is much better than the bums GGG has been boxing.

I pick Floyd at 154. A peak Floyd for sure.

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Post by milkyboy on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 10:00 pm

I really wanted Oscar to win that fight, I had it about even after 8 with mayweather pulling away from there. Oscar gassed and stopped throwing the double jab... But.  I don't remember him 'bossing' it. He was winning a few rounds by trying to make the fight while mayweather did little, can't recall him really landing anything of significance.

It did leave me thinking though that a younger de la Hoya might have finished the job.

Again, mayweather's barely a welter never mind a light middle. Golovkin would work him over if he wasn't totally drained at the weight.

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Post by AdamT on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 10:12 pm

It won't happen anyway.

I would pick Jones, Hopkins and Toney at 160. GGG couldn't of beat those guys.

Also Hagler and McCallum.

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