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Pacquiao vs Vargas

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Post by BoxingFan88 on Wed 26 Oct 2016, 1:03 pm

First topic message reminder :

Has any UK network picked this up yet?

Its a week on Saturday and I can't find any news

Its an absolutely cracking card, I'm super excited to see Manny again and see how he can deal with a full time job and being an elite boxer

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Post by AdamT on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 1:19 pm

I'm a United fan too. Love Scholes, but Keane was the man.

People that blast both, will appreciate them for sure.

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Post by BoxingFan88 on Wed 09 Nov 2016, 10:22 am

AdamT wrote:I'm a United fan too. Love Scholes, but Keane was the man.

People that blast both, will appreciate them for sure.

Scholes for me is a genius player, he could do everything

Letting him retire in his prime from International duty was a crime that the FA should be ridiculed for

Very Happy

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Post by AdamT on Wed 09 Nov 2016, 11:26 am

Scholes was a quality player.

Keane was a General, that rarely lost the ball, if ever.

People forget, in his earlier career he was a true box to box player. Covered every blade of grass.

Both class players. Bring them back!! Very Happy

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Post by huw on Wed 09 Nov 2016, 1:54 pm

BoxingFan88 wrote:I like both, I'm no historian, but those two are the two best fighters I have seen in my lifetime by some distance

Don't mind which way around you rank them

I think Pacquiao and Mayweather may be admired like Sir Alex Ferguson is now or Paul Scholes (Manchester United fan haha) in that you don't really appreciate how good they really were until you don't seem them anymore

I think most people could see how special Scholes and Fergie were and that's why everybody that doesn't follow Utd hated them so much. Maybe as a Utd fan you were spoilt and didn't realise how lucky you were at the time.

Mayweather will look better in the years that pass as younger fans will just watch his fights to see how good he is without the counter weight of him being a complete tool. That being said I think most are in agreement that they are easily the best boxers of the last 20 years anyway.


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Post by AdamT on Wed 09 Nov 2016, 2:02 pm

huw wrote:
BoxingFan88 wrote:I like both, I'm no historian, but those two are the two best fighters I have seen in my lifetime by some distance

Don't mind which way around you rank them

I think Pacquiao and Mayweather may be admired like Sir Alex Ferguson is now or Paul Scholes (Manchester United fan haha) in that you don't really appreciate how good they really were until you don't seem them anymore

I think most people could see how special Scholes and Fergie were and that's why everybody that doesn't follow Utd hated them so much. Maybe as a Utd fan you were spoilt and didn't realise how lucky you were at the time.

Mayweather will look better in the years that pass as younger fans will just watch his fights to see how good he is without the counter weight of him being a complete tool. That being said I think most are in agreement that they are easily the best boxers of the last 20 years anyway.  



It's like Lennox Lewis. He is far more well thought of now, than 10-15 years ago.

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Post by mobilemaster8 on Wed 09 Nov 2016, 8:23 pm

I'm confused by this fight. Pacquiao looked poor to me. That's only in comparison to how he has looked in the past of course. Yes he got a knockdown and showed glimpses of awkward shots speed movement and power....but Vargas caught him with some good good shots that seemed to bother him. I scored 116-112 to Manny. He was too good. But i would be concerned putting him in with Crawford or any top welter. Mayweather rematch would be the best option. Massive money but no risk really. Floyd won't stop him. Still lose on points but maybe make it a little more competitive with Floyd being out for a bit.

Unless pacman massively improves on the other night, he could get put to sleep by some of the current crop...and I don't want to see that...going back 5 years he would have battered them all.

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Post by BoxingFan88 on Wed 09 Nov 2016, 8:51 pm

mobilemaster8 wrote:I'm confused by this fight. Pacquiao looked poor to me. That's only in comparison to how he has looked in the past of course. Yes he got a knockdown and showed glimpses of awkward shots speed movement and power....but Vargas caught him with some good good shots that seemed to bother him. I scored 116-112 to Manny. He was too good. But i would be concerned putting him in with Crawford or any top welter. Mayweather rematch would be the best option. Massive money but no risk really. Floyd won't stop him. Still lose on points but maybe make it a little more competitive with Floyd being out for a bit.

Unless pacman massively improves on the other night, he could get put to sleep by some of the current crop...and I don't want to see that...going back 5 years he would have battered them all.

You gave Vargas 5 rounds????????

2 I can see, I think maybe because he did better than everyone thought they were overly generous

Pacquiao beat him up in that fight, he was absolutely finished at the end

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Post by AdamT on Wed 09 Nov 2016, 9:15 pm

Pacquiao is not near his best mate. Watched the fight over again. Still could probably beat every welter other than Spence.

Thurman and Brook would ask him questions too.

Still class fighter and shows how amazing he was at his peak.

He is operating around 80% and still too good for most..


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Post by mobilemaster8 on Wed 09 Nov 2016, 9:55 pm

Yeh gave Vargas a few good rounds. Seemed to have a nice jab and caught Manny a few times. Don't know. Perhaps I was expecting too much as I thought Vargas was poor before....or maybe he performed Better than I fought. Maybe I need to rewatch?

To be fair, if he signs with Crawford etc or any high quality fighter I can see him being better. Hopefully anyway.

At times when he bounced round the ring I thought "go on Manny get on him"...

Has he lost a bit of fire? Killer instinct? Age?

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Wed 09 Nov 2016, 10:03 pm

Everybody coming in Spence's a$$ just cos Floyd bigged him

Remember Floyd said Dawson was the best light heavy in the world and he turned out duff

Now Spence might well turn out to be a top fighter but too early to say he beats Manny. There's certainly a chance he could of course, as is there a chance Thurman could beat Manny even a chance Porter and Brook could beat Manny but it's a fight(they all are) I'd love to see anybody'd think it's a foregone conclusion Spence to beat Manny the way some people go on about Spence let's be real he still hasn't beat anything. Looking forward to see his progression though having yet to watch one of his fights in its entirety

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Post by BoxingFan88 on Wed 09 Nov 2016, 10:08 pm

He definitely isn't the same fighter but he is small at welterweight and he isn't as active as he used to be but he still lands as consistently

Remember at welterweight he hurt guys but didn't polax them

I think he went for the knockout a bit too much but I still thought the performance was very good many landed a load of right hooks that I missed when I watched it the first time

Im not sure he can beat some of the other welters at this stage but he will give them a beating even if they beat him

Manny a few years ago would wipe the floor with them watching him have mosley running for dear life will live long in the memory

Herman is spot on with Spence potential is definitely there but we haven't seen him cracked on the chin yet

Might have a chin like most punchers ie give but can't take

What I found more amazing is if you compare Pacquiao to rigo Pacquiao is an inch taller but has an inch shorter reach

Shows how truly amazing this guy is fighting and beating up guys with massive physical advantages

If Pacquiao had the same reach as vargas he would have beaten him easily

Thats why Pacquiao has to leap in and out because he has to get into range

Incredible

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Wed 09 Nov 2016, 10:26 pm

Spence Jr like Easter Jr has been hyped to the hilt purely because he's an aesthetically pleasing boxer beating fringe contenders, neither of them have really proved anything so i'll reserve judgement for the time being. The only win of note Spence Jr has is stopping a yo-yo in Algieri who in reality has only ever beaten a very average Provodnikov, the amount he gets dropped he was bound to get stopped sooner or later.

Hopefully Commey was an awakening for Easter Jr, he won just about against a fairly decent opponent and I feel that Spence Jr needs a similar test against a Timothy Bradley type.

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Post by AdamT on Thu 10 Nov 2016, 8:51 am

Mosley ran for his life, because he was well past his best. He was past it when Floyd hammered him too.

Spence will turn out good. Mark my words.

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Post by Baby faced assassin on Thu 10 Nov 2016, 9:02 am

Can't help but at pacquiaos resume and be underwhelmed over the last couple years

If you look at his record, except from mayweather the last real welterweight he fought was the ghost of Mosley in 2011

He's been kept away from welterweight and kept away from punchers

It's one thing getting caught with counters from Algieri or Bradley it's another thing taking a shot from welterweight like Thurman or Brook

He obviously has a lot of movement left but he just ran through Vargas as he couldn't be hurt, he couldn't do that to the guys mentioned

Competitive fights yes but he's 38 and doubt he can fight like he did this weekend against natural welterweights who also have pop in their punches

Would love to see it though, moreso than pacquiao mayweather 2

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Post by AdamT on Thu 10 Nov 2016, 9:08 am

I think he should just retire. Still a very good fighter, but he is only going to get worse and it's just a matter of time before he is knocked out.

If he doesn't have the rematch with Floyd, he should bow out with another opponent.

He couldn't need the money that badly.

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Post by BoxingFan88 on Thu 10 Nov 2016, 10:32 am

2012

Floyd Mayweather Jr.
Juan Manuel Marquez
Robert Guerrero
Manny Pacquiao
Kell Brook
Paul Malignaggi
Jan Zaveck
Timothy Bradley
Victor Ortiz
Devon Alexander

2013

Floyd Mayweather Jr.
Timothy Bradley
Juan Manuel Marquez
Manny Pacquiao
Kell Brook
Robert Guerrero
Shawn Porter
Keith Thurman
Paul Malignaggi
Marcos Rene Maidana
Adrien Broner

2014

Floyd Mayweather Jr.
Manny Pacquiao
Kell Brook
Amir Khan
Timothy Bradley
Juan Manuel Marquez
Shawn Porter
Keith Thurman
Robert Guerrero
Marcos Rene Maidana
Diego Gabriel Chaves

This new crop of Welterweights only appeared recently, don't forget that

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Post by Derbymanc on Thu 10 Nov 2016, 10:40 am

Think he should retire now, he's got a decent legacy and is looked at as one of the greats of the modern age BUT if he continues to fight sub par opposition (for him) then it will slowly go downhill and it will only be the later years when his accomplishments will be fully appreciated (same as Floyd)

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Post by AdamT on Thu 10 Nov 2016, 10:43 am

Derbymanc wrote:Think he should retire now, he's got a decent legacy and is looked at as one of the greats of the modern age BUT if he continues to fight sub par opposition (for him) then it will slowly go downhill and it will only be the later years when his accomplishments will be fully appreciated (same as Floyd)

True.

Manny had a super ledger up until Cotto. After that, he became Floyd like, when choosing his opponents.

Very few call up Manny on his fight selection. It has been no better than his rival in recent years.

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Post by BoxingFan88 on Thu 10 Nov 2016, 11:37 am

He is still an awesome watch, always gives us entertainment

If he decides to carry on, I'll still watch

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Post by Derbymanc on Thu 10 Nov 2016, 11:39 am

Fair play to you BF, to be honest i've lost a lot of interest in him as his fights seem very one sided (50/50 all the way me) and all the daft excuses after Mayweather left a bad taste in my mouth

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Post by AdamT on Thu 10 Nov 2016, 11:42 am

Derbymanc wrote:Fair play to you BF, to be honest i've lost a lot of interest in him as his fights seem very one sided (50/50 all the way me) and all the daft excuses after Mayweather left a bad taste in my mouth

Yep agreed. He seems to have a huge following (almost a cult of fans) who believe he won in slow motion.

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