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Eng in India

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Post by KP_fan Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:49 am

First topic message reminder :

England tour of India, 2016-17




Nov 09, Wed - Nov 13, Sun
India vs England, 1st Test
Saurashtra Cricket Association Stadium, Rajkot

Nov 17, Thu - Nov 21, Mon
India vs England, 2nd Test
Dr. Y.S. Rajasekhara Reddy ACA-VDCA Cricket Stadium, Visakhapatnam


Nov 26, Sat - Nov 30, Wed
India vs England, 3rd Test
Punjab Cricket Association Stadium, Mohali

Dec 08, Thu - Dec 12, Mon
India vs England, 4th Test
Wankhede Stadium, Mumbai

Dec 16, Fri - Dec 20, Tue
India vs England, 5th Test
MA Chidambaram Stadium, Chennai


Jan 15, Sun
India vs England, 1st ODI
Maharashtra Cricket Association Stadium, Pune

Jan 19, Thu
India vs England, 2nd ODI
Barabati Stadium, Cuttack

Jan 22, Sun
India vs England, 3rd ODI
Eden Gardens, Kolkata

Jan 26, Thu
India vs England, 1st T20I
Green Park, Kanpur

Jan 29, Sun
India vs England, 2nd T20I
Vidarbha Cricket Association Ground, Nagpur

Feb 01, Wed
India vs England, 3rd T20I
M.Chinnaswamy Stadium, Bengaluru



Last edited by KP_fan on Tue Nov 01, 2016 4:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by guildfordbat Sun Nov 27, 2016 12:47 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:No doubt where this test match was lost. It came with the top order collapse in the first innings on the second day. That shaped the rest of the match.

As far as team changes are concerned I'd say nothing major needs doing just a tweak here or there. Woakes coming back in for Ansari I'd say or Broad if he needs to rest or to recover from his reported injury.

Whatever the position with Broad's fitness, I'm sure Woakes will replace Ansari. In the words of the normally reserved Atherton, the Surrey man ''had a very ordinary match''.

The suggestion also seems to be that Buttler will come in for Duckett although no one seems sure where in the order.

Where things could get particularly interesting is if Broad is unfit. Who comes in then? There are several options.
Finn or Ball as the nearest like for like replacement seems favourite.
However, you could go back to Craig's Plan A - regard Woakes as Broad's replacement and shuffle the spin pack bringing in the veteran Batty for Ansari. Whilst this has the bonus of keeping a Surrey player in the team to irritate Goose, I hear the wicket for the next Test is - by Indian standards - more likely to benefit seamers. Thus, you would expect Finn or Ball.
I can see one other option although accept this is currently a rank outsider. Particularly given the love now for Rashid (even Alfie is showing a hint of affection Wink ), could we dispense with a sixth front line bowler and go into the third Test with two spinners (Rashid and Moeen) and three seamers (Anderson, Woakes and Stokes)? The answer is probably not as too many of those bowlers lack reliability and control. If we did trust those five though, it would enable Duckett to retain his place and still bring in Buttler as the so called wild card.


Guess Broad will go and spoil all that now by being fit!  Very Happy


Thought I would throw this back in the mix.

Still 14 Indian wickets to try and take in this Test so a long way to go unless we're ready to throw in the towel. After only two days, I'm not prepared to give up at this stage but, fair to say, Batty's place is already looking questionable (and that from a Surrey supporter!).

Assuming Broad remains injured, I'm getting more inclined to the view that we should try to strengthen the batting and go with 5 bowlers. Points:

1. As Batty only bowled 6 overs today and didn't appear until about 45 overs had gone, I'm not sure a sixth bowler is needed. It wasn't as if we were banking on him from early on and then had to whip him off quick.

2. Playing only two spinners would reflect more confidence in Rashid and Moeen and might result in them bowling better.

3. We could bring in another seamer but he'll probably only bowl more than a few token overs if one of the other front line bowlers mucks up. I'm unconvinced that's a reason for selection. [I appreciate this could be used as a reason not to recall Broad when fit or resting one of the current seamers - I don't like any of those options and so I'll continue to assume Broad remains crocked!].

4. If a sixth bowler isn't going to bowl, we might as well have an extra batsman. If Duckett or Ballance are mentally shot and show no sign of improvement in the nets, then jet someone in. Maybe Malan.

Views and help gratefully received. Smile

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Post by msp83 Sun Nov 27, 2016 12:52 pm

If Parthiv makes runs, think it would put Saha under pressure, not so much Rahane. Don't think they'll keep Rahane out for Parthiv really. There is a massive difference in class. But if Parthiv makes runs in the 2nd innings also, then Saha's return to the side might get delayed. Unlike Saha, Parthiv can do a stand-in opener's job as well...... All the more reason for Saha to do further work on his keeping, he's not going to edge Parthiv out with the bat, and Parthiv do have his issues with the gloves....... And Rohit Sharma is not available for this series. Even his availability for the Australia series is not sure. A bad time for Shreyas Iyer to fail during the A tour to Australia. And he has had a relatively slow start to the Ranji season this time, though he made 194 in the last game.

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Post by msp83 Sun Nov 27, 2016 12:57 pm

Broad's injury should have been used by the team management to get another player in as cover, a batsman with Broad pretty much staying in India and retaking his position when fit. At least that would have given them some options. But who? People are already talking about Ian Bell, Matt Prior and Geoffrey Boycott or his nanny!

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Post by msp83 Sun Nov 27, 2016 1:01 pm

Meanwhile, Hardik Pandya becomes the latest to join the injury list for India. Both he and Rahul are released from the squad, the latter is expected to be fit for the Mumbai test.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sun Nov 27, 2016 1:06 pm

If we can nip them out for a lead of say 50 we still have a chance. Again the issue is not enough runs on huge board. The bowlers again imo have bowled well
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Post by LivinginItaly Sun Nov 27, 2016 1:46 pm

LivinginItaly wrote:I have said all along that three spinners is a bad policy for England with a captain who clearly A) isn't tactically adept at captaining them B) doesn't have a great deal of confidence in them.

onto the match situation...
-restrict India to 300....We would be well in the game
-restrict India to 350.... We would be in the game, but would need to bat very well second time round
-India get 400....England would be right up against it and barring a miracle would lose the game by about 6/7 wickets.
-India get 450 + ....We can start the rain dance, if we bat very well we would probably lose by about 8 wickets.

Not looking good unfortunately....

My summary still stands, only it is looking a bit better than I expected. Hopefully we can get them out for less than 350 and then we need to bat long and big.

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Post by KP_fan Sun Nov 27, 2016 3:11 pm

msp83 wrote:If Parthiv makes runs, think it would put Saha under pressure, not so much Rahane. Don't think they'll keep Rahane out for Parthiv really. There is a massive difference in class. But if Parthiv makes runs in the 2nd innings also, then Saha's return to the side might get delayed. Unlike Saha, Parthiv can do a stand-in opener's job as well...... All the more reason for Saha to do further work on his keeping, he's not going to edge Parthiv out with the bat, and Parthiv do have his issues with the gloves....... And Rohit Sharma is not available for this series. Even his availability for the Australia series is not sure. A bad time for Shreyas Iyer to fail during the A tour to Australia. And he has had a relatively slow start to the Ranji season this time, though he made 194 in the last game.

Shikhar Dhwan is playing for Delhi and assuming he goes throuhg will be in the mix again

so Shikahr, Rahul, Rahane, Rohit when fit are fighting for 2 spots.....Rahul & rahane being incumbents and frotn runners

and parthiv if he get a 40 or 50 in second inning will in the squad as a dual purpose reseveve WK cum reserve batsman cum reserve opener
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Post by KP_fan Sun Nov 27, 2016 3:15 pm

guildfordbat wrote:


4. If a sixth bowler isn't going to bowl, we might as well have an extra batsman. If Duckett or Ballance are mentally shot and show no sign of improvement in the nets, then jet someone in. Maybe Malan.

Views and help gratefully received. Smile
I heard from Nasser on Indian TV that they are going too call a back-up for  Hameed 
so why not call two back-up batsmen.......one for Hameed and one for Ballance if they are absolutely not going to play him...or 3 back-up if they are absolutely not going to play Duckett either.....

it's an 8 hour flight and few thousand bucks on tickets only.....

Is Hameed gonna be able to bat in second inning
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Post by KP_fan Sun Nov 27, 2016 3:52 pm

actually here is the update from CI

Hameed finger injury causes concern

Haseeb Hameed will have a scan on a finger injury after the Mohali Test finishes and did not field throughout the second day.
Hameed experienced pain in the little finger of his left hand after taking a number of blows during the series, including his first-innings dismissal in this match.
If he is found to have a significant injury which puts him in doubt for the Mumbai Test, England may need to consider calling up an extra player to the squad from the Lions team currently in Dubai. Nick Gubbins, the Middlesex left hander, or Durham's Keaton Jennings - who both had prolific Championship seasons - would probably head the queue as like-for-like openers.
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Post by CaledonianCraig Sun Nov 27, 2016 3:58 pm

KP_fan wrote:actually here is the update from CI

Hameed finger injury causes concern


Haseeb Hameed will have a scan on a finger injury after the Mohali Test finishes and did not field throughout the second day.
Hameed experienced pain in the little finger of his left hand after taking a number of blows during the series, including his first-innings dismissal in this match.
If he is found to have a significant injury which puts him in doubt for the Mumbai Test, England may need to consider calling up an extra player to the squad from the Lions team currently in Dubai. Nick Gubbins, the Middlesex left hander, or Durham's Keaton Jennings - who both had prolific Championship seasons - would probably head the queue as like-for-like openers.

The question then has to be asked: Will Hameed bat in the second innings? I would have thought he will have to.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sun Nov 27, 2016 4:13 pm

Terrible luck for young Hameed if so - he seems to have been on the end of all of the snorters this series, and now picks up an injury too!

Would imagine they'll dose him up on painkillers, strap it up and see if he can get out there to take the shine off the new ball at least
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Post by king_carlos Sun Nov 27, 2016 5:06 pm

I'd say things a relatively evenly poised at the moment. India are undoubtedly a nudge ahead but given the pitch isn't breaking up as quickly as expected who will bat last is going to have a say.

England will have everything crossed that the ball will do a little bit for the first 8-10 overs in the morning to allow them to nip a couple quickly and get at the real tail. If I were Cook I'd throw the ball to Anderson and Stokes first up with orders of throw everything at them.

Hameed getting injured is so unfortunate for the young lad and also the team when he's looking so composed. If he needs replacing then it's a tough job picking who. Keaton Jennings had an excellent summer but batting at Chester-le-Street doesn't really prepare you for spinning conditions. Nick Gubbins also had a good summer but would be a gamble on par with Hameed.

I agree that if we Hameed is getting a replacement called up then I'd happily see Hildreth or Malan come over with them to bolster the middle order. I can't see it happening as it would be such a blow to Duckett and Ballance confidence but if the selectors don't want either on the pitch then it's difficult to see much reason for them being on tour.

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Post by msp83 Sun Nov 27, 2016 5:55 pm

So Gubbins and Jennings. We are back to a forward looking mode. Had a look at their FC records. The overall records do not demand immediate selection. However, both have had strong seasons of late. Not sure how they would go about playing spin as such, but England need some batting cover for sure.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sun Nov 27, 2016 5:57 pm

king_carlos wrote:I'd say things a relatively evenly poised at the moment. India are undoubtedly a nudge ahead but given the pitch isn't breaking up as quickly as expected who will bat last is going to have a say.

England will have everything crossed that the ball will do a little bit for the first 8-10 overs in the morning to allow them to nip a couple quickly and get at the real tail. If I were Cook I'd throw the ball to Anderson and Stokes first up with orders of throw everything at them.

Hameed getting injured is so unfortunate for the young lad and also the team when he's looking so composed. If he needs replacing then it's a tough job picking who. Keaton Jennings had an excellent summer but batting at Chester-le-Street doesn't really prepare you for spinning conditions. Nick Gubbins also had a good summer but would be a gamble on par with Hameed.

I agree that if we Hameed is getting a replacement called up then I'd happily see Hildreth or Malan come over with them to bolster the middle order. I can't see it happening as it would be such a blow to Duckett and Ballance confidence but if the selectors don't want either on the pitch then it's difficult to see much reason for them being on tour.

If he isn't going to play in the rest of the tests, sending Duckett to the Lions would be a good thing.
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Post by ChequeredJersey Sun Nov 27, 2016 5:58 pm

msp83 wrote:So Gubbins and Jennings. We are back to a forward looking mode. Had a look at their FC records. The overall records do not demand immediate selection. However, both have had strong seasons of late. Not sure how they would go about playing spin as such, but England need some batting cover for sure.
Maybe let Duckett open? He played better there and might have time for us to get his head right. And call up Bell
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Post by msp83 Sun Nov 27, 2016 6:30 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:
msp83 wrote:So Gubbins and Jennings. We are back to a forward looking mode. Had a look at their FC records. The overall records do not demand immediate selection. However, both have had strong seasons of late. Not sure how they would go about playing spin as such, but England need some batting cover for sure.
Maybe let Duckett open? He played better there and might have time for us to get his head right. And call up Bell
Bell was dropped for a very good reason. He hasn't done anything substantive to earn a recall. His overall record in India is pretty average. It is pretty much a backward looking move......

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Post by king_carlos Sun Nov 27, 2016 6:36 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
king_carlos wrote:I'd say things a relatively evenly poised at the moment. India are undoubtedly a nudge ahead but given the pitch isn't breaking up as quickly as expected who will bat last is going to have a say.

England will have everything crossed that the ball will do a little bit for the first 8-10 overs in the morning to allow them to nip a couple quickly and get at the real tail. If I were Cook I'd throw the ball to Anderson and Stokes first up with orders of throw everything at them.

Hameed getting injured is so unfortunate for the young lad and also the team when he's looking so composed. If he needs replacing then it's a tough job picking who. Keaton Jennings had an excellent summer but batting at Chester-le-Street doesn't really prepare you for spinning conditions. Nick Gubbins also had a good summer but would be a gamble on par with Hameed.

I agree that if we Hameed is getting a replacement called up then I'd happily see Hildreth or Malan come over with them to bolster the middle order. I can't see it happening as it would be such a blow to Duckett and Ballance confidence but if the selectors don't want either on the pitch then it's difficult to see much reason for them being on tour.

If he isn't going to play in the rest of the tests, sending Duckett to the Lions would be a good thing.

Ballance as well for the same reason, Olly.

Particularly for Duckett though given the coaches should be getting him time in the middle before the ODIs. It would be shame if he loses his place in the 50 over side as well due to losing form in Tests and not having a chance to re-find it. He looked good in the Bangladesh ODIs.

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Post by king_carlos Sun Nov 27, 2016 6:42 pm

Nick Browne is another option at opener who has good technique, a good record last season and he also is familiar opening with Cook for Essex.

If the selectors want to call up a middle order batsmen then it should be Hildreth (long term class over many years and good last season) or Malan (good record last season and plays spin well).

Even as a huge fan of Ian Bell he just didn't do enough for Warks in the CC last season to justify recalling.

As for the age argument. I can understand it if we had a young middle order batsmen blowing the door down, sadly we don't so picking what's best for this tour is fine by me.

Joe Clarke is the closest to that middle order star but I'd rather his chance came later and at home.

I can't see a middle order batsmen being called up anyway TBH.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sun Nov 27, 2016 7:37 pm

king_carlos wrote:Nick Browne is another option at opener who has good technique, a good record last season and he also is familiar opening with Cook for Essex.

If the selectors want to call up a middle order batsmen then it should be Hildreth (long term class over many years and good last season) or Malan (good record last season and plays spin well).

Even as a huge fan of Ian Bell he just didn't do enough for Warks in the CC last season to justify recalling.

As for the age argument. I can understand it if we had a young middle order batsmen blowing the door down, sadly we don't so picking what's best for this tour is fine by me.

Joe Clarke is the closest to that middle order star but I'd rather his chance came later and at home.

I can't see a middle order batsmen being called up anyway TBH.

Daniel Bell Drummond another possibility who's been on the England radar with the Lions before - had a good season with Kent too
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Post by alfie Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:25 pm

Can't see them swapping fit players out of the squad (though clearly it might be helpful this time) - but I guess just having another batsman available will give a bit of flexibilty.
Few names being thrown up , I see. Has Borthwick dropped right off the radar ?

For the immediate future , have to hope Hameed can handle a bat to some degree ; but who will open in the second innings ? They have already moved players up to fit Buttler into the lineup...now does poor old Moeen go back to the top of the order ?
All rather important too : unless India secure a monster lead England have a real chance here provided they can muster a solid third innings total ; and a good start would go a long way to achieving that.

On another point : I see guildford suggesting two spinners plus Root might be the best combination for the rest of the Tests ; and am inclined to agree , given the continued improvement in Rashid . Am less convinced that an extra batsman would be helpful - they already have Rashid at nine... and have resorted to employing the spare keeper to plug a batting spot so would bringing , say , Ballance back in help much ? If Broad is fit I'd far rather an extra seamer ; never mind if it means one of them doesn't get used much. Help to keep them all on the park through the series , perhaps...and would enable Cook to keep pressure on the Indian batsmen with fresh bowlers for longer. At the moment England can't really bowl any of the pace men for long and this has enabled India to wait out some quiet periods.
Of course then the next Test would probably actually turn out to be a day one minefield as we've been threatened with throughout Smile

But I suppose in that case it doesn't matter much who they pick...


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Post by CaledonianCraig Mon Nov 28, 2016 5:59 am

India's morning and you feel they have batted themselves into a winning position now. They go into lunch on 354 for 7 leading by 71 runs with Stokes taking the sole wicket this morning. The only meagre crumb of comfort for England is that they haven't leaked runs and the pitch still seems to be playing pretty well.
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Post by KP_fan Mon Nov 28, 2016 6:21 am

Indian supporters can breathe much better.
Their 3 bowling allrounders and batsman Wk will get India beyond safety....to a positions of strength.

I wanted a 100 run lead and it appears we will get there .
It would be brilliant if Jadeja can get a 100 and Jayant a 50 and shami can come in and whack 4 sixes......

With the way situation stands now remainder batting in this Indian inning will not be under pressure

Pitch does " appear" to have eased BUT we have seen this to be deceptive often times when the other side bats.
We'll find out when Indian spinner's bowl
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Post by msp83 Mon Nov 28, 2016 6:39 am

As for the pitch, there is something out of the rough. Rashid, when he bowled a wider line, was able to get just that little bit of life. Even Batty turned a ball....... But the main area of the pitch is as flat as you get. True bounce, no turn. And the ball didn't swing for Anderson in the morning, though he wasn't on straight away as Cook seemed to have a hunch with Moeen Ali.

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Post by msp83 Mon Nov 28, 2016 6:41 am

Good efforts so far from Ashwin, Jadeja and Jayant. India would be hoping Jadeja and Jayant would carry on the same way for some more time. Stokes looked most likely to take a wicket for England, even after he took out Ashwin. Rashid bowled a decent longish spell. Anderson wasn't at his best. And Ali didn't look threatening. Batty bowled much better than he did yesterday, varying his pace well in that short spell before lunch.

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Post by msp83 Mon Nov 28, 2016 6:44 am

Cricinfo reports that Hameed is looking good to go in the nets....... So think he'll open in the 2nd innings....... Whether he'll be available for the next test might depend on the scan results.......

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Post by alfie Mon Nov 28, 2016 7:18 am

Arrived home to see that India have pretty much run away with this ...

Jadeja seemingly unstoppable ; pitch not giving the bowlers anything and the lead looking likely to be nearer 150 than 100. Even if the pitch stays good for batting it is hard to see England batting long enough to erase that lead and set India anything challenging.

Have to give great credit to Ashwin , Jadeja and now Yadav in recovering from that clatter of wickets yesterday to take a grip on the game


And as I type Jadeja holes out to Rashid...so no century ; but he may have already won his team the match clap

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Post by KP_fan Mon Nov 28, 2016 7:39 am

3 hours into the 3rd day of the 3rd test....exactly the mid-point of the series and I think now the English resistance has been broken.

they've been a very hard nut to crack compared to other visiting sides.....and it's not just the 100 run lead but the fact that from nearly 200-6 they let India get to nearly 400-8 is what has battered them..mentally.

Tough but not impossible to come back in this game...very tough infact...I am sure Indian bowlers ...not just the spinners but all 5 of them will get a lot more out of this pitch.

and once the game is gone ....will be hard to come back in the series
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Post by LivinginItaly Mon Nov 28, 2016 7:56 am

The fact that India's lower order have been able to add 200 runs with only the loss of two wickets gives an idea of how the pitch is playing at the moment. So England, with such a long batting line up, should be able to get 300 + in their second innings. If they produce a good performance then the win for India is by no means a foregone conclusion. However, the pressure of the situation and England's apparent lack of patience will probably result in us being bundled out for less than 250.

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Post by KP_fan Mon Nov 28, 2016 8:01 am

LivinginItaly wrote:The fact that India's lower order have been able to add 200 runs with only the loss of two wickets gives an idea of how the pitch is playing at the moment. 
sides don't just score runs because pitch is easy.......but also because they showed a higher resolve / skill ....and opponents bowling was not able to get enough out of the pitch....

A lead of 150 would invoke possibilities of Innings defeat for Eng on this same pitch
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Mon Nov 28, 2016 8:03 am

Can anyone explain why Moeen has only bowled 12 overs this innings? Would love to hear the thinking behind that
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Post by alfie Mon Nov 28, 2016 8:05 am

Yes it does appear India might have just about cracked them with this innings. These later batsmen have played really well - sensible batting , no silly slogging (OK , Jadeja got a bit carried away at the end - and cost himself a century ) but now these two have reverted to picking off the loose ball and continuing to wear the bowlers and fielders down. Obviously the longer they bat the better.

Of course there is nothing technically preventing England from digging in to play a long second innings , if the pitch continues to be easy , as appears quite possible : but it will be hard mentally to do so after being ground down like this.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Mon Nov 28, 2016 8:11 am

Cook now compounds his poor captaincy day with a poor drop
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Post by alfie Mon Nov 28, 2016 8:13 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Can anyone explain why Moeen has only bowled 12 overs this innings? Would love to hear the thinking behind that

I've been wondering about that myself ! He seemed to bowl quite well in his first (short) spell ...but was then ignored for ages. Then he popped up to start this morning : odd handling - perhaps another sign that Batty's inclusion served only to confuse things ?

Poor Stokes ! Two edges and neither caught...but he ends the over with a catch taken at mid on - probably just as well for his blood pressure ! Definite signs that England are cooked...

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Post by LivinginItaly Mon Nov 28, 2016 8:17 am

KP_fan wrote:
LivinginItaly wrote:The fact that India's lower order have been able to add 200 runs with only the loss of two wickets gives an idea of how the pitch is playing at the moment. 
sides don't just score runs because pitch is easy.......but also because they showed a higher resolve / skill ....and opponents bowling was not able to get enough out of the pitch....

A lead of 150 would invoke possibilities of Innings defeat for Eng on this same pitch

Which is why I said we would probably be bundled out for less than 250 :-)

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Mon Nov 28, 2016 8:18 am

alfie wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Can anyone explain why Moeen has only bowled 12 overs this innings? Would love to hear the thinking behind that

I've been wondering about that myself !  He seemed to bowl quite well in his first (short) spell ...but was then ignored for ages.  Then he popped up to start this morning : odd handling - perhaps another sign that Batty's inclusion served only to confuse things ?

Poor Stokes ! Two edges and neither caught...but he ends the over with a catch taken at mid on - probably just as well for his blood pressure !  Definite signs that England are cooked...

I have no idea what Cook has been doing with Moeen/Batty and I'm not too sure he does either. Bizarre to me that Moeen has barely been bowled, truly bizarre.

Glad that catch was taken or else I think Stokes might have clocked someone
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Post by KP_fan Mon Nov 28, 2016 8:23 am

well India bowled out with a lead of 134.....having batted 4 and half sessions...Stokes showed reverse and Adil was getting turn even with his limited revs on the ball.

The only disappointment....Shami did not get to face about 15 to 20 deliveries.....else we might have seen about 3 SIXES....

anyway we have much more cushion then it seemed possible when we were 200ish for 6

I wouldn't be surprised if we see Eng 3 to 5 down by the end of play.....35 overs to go.

I would open the bowling with Ashwin and Shami.....but I don't think Kohli would do that
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Post by CaledonianCraig Mon Nov 28, 2016 8:27 am

India's score of 417 is a fair indication of the pitch I would say and is around what England should have posted in the first innings. 

England now in a precarious position in the match. Unless the top order bats with far more gumption this time around then this match will be done and dusted inside four days. With Hameed carrying an injury and the pitch showing small signs of beginning to turn the pressure is on.
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Post by alfie Mon Nov 28, 2016 8:33 am

Stokes gets the last one so as it happens the missed chances cost nothing. But they aren't great signs for the ordeal to come as they rather point to very tired minds...

Stokes and Rashid have both done well clap Bit surprised Anderson didn't make an impact - he bowled some excellent stuff yesterday for no reward - not sure why he didn't open up this morning ? Moeen was a bit unlucky , I thought. Batty was very poor yesterday , better today but a bit late ; and Woakes after a few good overs with the new ball had a bit of a shocker.

Hope for something special with the bat ; but not with great conviction , I fear.

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Post by msp83 Mon Nov 28, 2016 8:33 am

India bowled out for 417, with the last 4 wickets more than doubling the score from 204-6. Numbers 7, 8 and 9 all scoring 50s. Even Umesh looked relatively comfortable out there. A lead of 134.
India in a very strong position. But they will have to stay focused. Unlike many here, I don't think this English side would give up yet. The top order is a lottery but if one of Cook or Root get going, the lower middle order and the lower order would certainly come in and build a decent enough score. Indian bowlers have to work really hard. Rashid was getting a few to turn, and Batty got decent bounce on a few. There is just a bit of rough and someone like Jadeja can keep targeting the same with regularity. Not all over for England, if they stay patient, they still can challenge India here as this pitch isn't breaking up drastically any time soon.

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Post by CaledonianCraig Mon Nov 28, 2016 8:36 am

I think England have to bat for at least four sessions before things begin to look a little more comfortable for them. They can afford to lose no more than two wickets per session between now and close of play tomorrow when they should be around 220 runs ahead (if still batting). A massive ask.
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Post by guildfordbat Mon Nov 28, 2016 8:37 am

Morning / evening folks - feel the game has gone now for England.

We really needed to win the opening session today. Once we let that slip, that was probably it.

Lot of talk on Sky about whether Hameed will be fit to open but hasn't he been off the outfield for too long anyway? Thinking back to Warner in Australia's last Test.

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Post by CaledonianCraig Mon Nov 28, 2016 8:40 am

So Hameed not fit to open and Root steps in.
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Post by msp83 Mon Nov 28, 2016 8:42 am

Anil Kumble celebrated his first and only test hundred far more than any of his 619 test wickets. Even more than his 10-74. As such, hope he would have had a chat with Ravindra Jadeja. It was an excellent innings from Jadeja. Under pressure, without being his usual frenetic self. Looking calm and composed, and taking up every opportunity presented to score runs. But he got carried away at the end after he toyed with Chris Woakes and unnecessarily took on the deep fielder of Rashid. A hundred was there for the taking. Scoring a test hundred would have boosted his confidence. When he scored that 50 against New Zealand, Virat Kohli talked about the value of that innings, how scoring a 50 would give the likes of Jadeja the confidence that he can do it when the team would really need him to do so. He did score a big, crucial 50 when the side very much needed him to do so, but he could have gone 1 step further and that would have helped him big time as an all-rounder......

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Post by msp83 Mon Nov 28, 2016 8:44 am

Hameed could have batted if he was able to couldn't he? External injury?

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Post by CaledonianCraig Mon Nov 28, 2016 8:48 am

msp83 wrote:Hameed could have batted if he was able to couldn't he? External injury?

Yes I'd say so.

Maybe England thinking on two fronts. Not to expose Hameed's fragile finger to the harder new ball and pace bowlers allowing the injury time to heal further plus they have more experienced Root to perhaps better deal with this tense situation. I'd be surprised if Hameed never came in at some point especially if there is a collapse.
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Post by Hammersmith harrier Mon Nov 28, 2016 8:53 am

Vaughan made a good point on TMS that we should have opened with Woakes or someone else other than Root, if the new ball does anything then our two best players are exposed to it straight away.

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Post by guildfordbat Mon Nov 28, 2016 8:55 am

msp83 wrote:Hameed could have batted if he was able to couldn't he? External injury?

Ah, yes - thanks, msp. I can never get my head around the external injury business!

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Post by CaledonianCraig Mon Nov 28, 2016 8:57 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Vaughan made a good point on TMS that we should have opened with Woakes or someone else other than Root, if the new ball does anything then our two best players are exposed to it straight away.

That could work against you though. I mean Woakes is not use (at this level) to facing the new ball so would be more of a fish out of water and if he went early then pressure gets ratcheted up and Root is still in early on. This way you have the best players England have to negate the new ball.
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Post by guildfordbat Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:06 am

alfie wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Can anyone explain why Moeen has only bowled 12 overs this innings? Would love to hear the thinking behind that

I've been wondering about that myself !  He seemed to bowl quite well in his first (short) spell ...but was then ignored for ages.  Then he popped up to start this morning : odd handling - perhaps another sign that Batty's inclusion served only to confuse things ?

...

Yep. We did send down 29 overs of off spin which isn't too light. However, we used two bowlers to do it!

Rob Key (he's normally sound imo) speculated last night that Batty had been selected as Bayliss and Cook probably didn't sufficiently trust Moeen and Rashid. He referred to that as being negative but understandable. I would say that's right although it's hardly a great state of affairs.

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Post by CaledonianCraig Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:11 am

guildfordbat wrote:
alfie wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Can anyone explain why Moeen has only bowled 12 overs this innings? Would love to hear the thinking behind that

I've been wondering about that myself !  He seemed to bowl quite well in his first (short) spell ...but was then ignored for ages.  Then he popped up to start this morning : odd handling - perhaps another sign that Batty's inclusion served only to confuse things ?

...

Yep. We did send down 29 overs of off spin which isn't too light. However, we used two bowlers to do it!

Rob Key (he's normally sound imo) speculated last night that Batty had been selected as Bayliss and Cook probably didn't sufficiently trust Moeen and Rashid. He referred to that as being negative but understandable. I would say that's right although it's hardly a great state of affairs.

To be fair though Batty looked more of a threat today than Moeen. Okay Moeen was hardly used but never really got any movement whereas Batty could have had a wicket.
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