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AJ Vs Molina CONFIRMED

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Post by EX7EY on Tue 01 Nov 2016, 3:21 pm

First topic message reminder :

Fight is confirmed for December 10th, as we all expected in the end. I thought it would Price actually but obviously the last few days it's looked like Molina. Not looking forward to it, won't be buying.

Del Boy Vs Whyte confirmed on the undercard. Should test Whyte far more than any other opponent has, except AJ of course, hope he gets exposed which Chisora should b able to do if he has anything left.

Quigg vs the mysterious TBA, Yafai Vs Concepcion.

It's not really lighting my fire, but for the guys that buy anything, fill your boots Very Happy

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Post by Rowley on Wed 02 Nov 2016, 6:23 pm

The more I hear it the more I hate the argument that if you don’t like it, you don’t have to buy it. It is such a lazy cop out way of justifying the fact you’re being sold rubbish. Whilst it is essentially true, it is also true that you don’t have to subscribe to Sky or Boxnation, you don’t have to buy Boxing Monthly or Weekly, you don’t have to buy tickets for fights or watch Saturday Night fights on normal Sky, you don’t have to log on here or wherever else to discuss and read about the sport. However there is a distinct possibility that as fans of the sport you may actually want to occasionally, or frequently do one, some or all of these things.  
 
Once one accepts that it is not unreasonable that, having made the decision you do want to do one of those things, the providers of these things make at least some endeavour to provide you value and a product that makes you feel your efforts and expenditure have been appreciated. If for no other reason than it is just basic customer service. Nobody has an obligation to buy a ticket for Joshua Molina or a PPV but I genuinely don’t think if the decision has been made that the cheapest way one can now watch Joshua legally is by paying £16.95, which it clearly has, it is unreasonable to expect something better than a fight where he starts as 33 to 1 on favourite?
 
I have no issue with people complaining, I’d actively encourage it. We’re being asked to buy a poor product, why should we not complain? The idea that complaining about being asked to pay a premium knowing full well the fight you’re paying for is highly unlikely to be even vaguely competitive marks you out as a whinger is pretty ridiculous if you think about it.   

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Post by catchweight on Wed 02 Nov 2016, 6:57 pm

I have been a critic of Matchroom for an age. They are horribe for the genuine boxing fan. Nothing to do with being jealous o Eddie Hearns rich dad or his sports car. Just p1ssed off at the way they run boxing.

There is platform there with the backing Sky give them to have a really good boxing product. But they are not interested in the sport, only in the profit they can make off the promotion. Unfortunately they do it pretty well, which is crap for fans that want regular competitive cards.

Boxnation is not perfect, but I prefer the no frills boxing orientated product over Matchrooms style over substance. They are giving a more genuine boxing product to fight fans. They have picked up some quality fights over the years while Sky are busy shooting Anthony Joshua: the Gloves are off and Kell Brook: the Fight of my life.

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Post by EX7EY on Thu 03 Nov 2016, 8:53 am

Agree wuith Rowley's above comment 100%, and catchweight for that matter.

Saying just don't pay for it is a bad argument. Obviously I want to see AJ's career mapping out, whether he gets exposed or whether he does turn out to be the real deal. Either way as a boxing fan I'd like to follow his career, I just refuse to be ripped off in order to do so.

And like Catchweight has said, the platform is there now for boxing. Eddie can definitely promote and market events, he has some good boxers in his stable and with Sky's money it has the potential to be a very good era for British boxing. Instead we are getting short changed and ripped off in the process.

Especially with AJ, and this is why I am so vocal about it. The heavyweight scene hasd been dead for years but it's been ripped wide open. There are decent fights to be made but nobody wants to make them. And in the meantime Eddie is selling us gold plated coal. To the untrained eye it looks like a 24k golden nugget, but to anybody who is into boxing you scratch the surface and the big smelly lump of coal is exposed!

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Post by EX7EY on Thu 03 Nov 2016, 9:00 am

The further annoyance is Eddie keeps spouting names off inbetween AJ fights. And you think, ok, it looks like we may get a semi competetive fight now, but no we don't. Mysteriously everything decent falls through but all the walking punch bags are still available and more than happy to fight AJ.

I mean, since Brezeale Eddie has mentioned pretty much everybody for AJ, and we apparently got within inches of Klitschko. But in reality he serves us Molina....who he had not mentioned once until recently. In fact, Molina was being put forward as a confidence booster for Price.

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Post by Ronikara on Thu 03 Nov 2016, 10:07 am

I can't believe I'm going to stick up for Eddie Hearn here a little. I actually think Matchroom did try and get Wlad but it was Wlad who bottled it and then suffered a small injury. Even Wlad's camp suddenly started talking about the WBA belt being the most important thing since sliced bread and that they would pull out of a fight with the IBF champion if they didn't get it so I don't think we can blame Eddie for that fight falling through for the time being.

In the mean time, after being messed around by Wlad and with about 6 weeks to go before their preferred fighting date they had to get someone and all the decent heavies such as Parker had now found other options. Yes they could have done better than Molina (maybe Pulev?) but they wanted to keep AJ active so they went for the guy we can benchmark against Wilder and someone who is more durable than Price. So I don't blame Eddie for the opponent.

Where I draw the line and agree with everyone on this board is the PPV thing. Fine, you have a rubbish opponent for AJ. So they should absolutely not put the fight on PPV. Especially where you can't stack the card with really competitive fights. I'm counting two so far on that card, Whyte v Chisora and Yafai v Conception. Other than that, you have decent ish fighters such as Quigg and Callum Smith in tool sharpeners. This is a joke of a PPV and we as fans have every right to be angry about being ripped off. I'm ok with PPV for something big like Frampton v Quigg but this is not on.

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Post by EX7EY on Thu 03 Nov 2016, 10:44 am

Ronikara - fair enough re Wlad. I too think they want Wlad but based on the other circumstances, i.e 20K manchester arena and 6 weeks notice, it doesn't quite ring true that it was ever a real possibility for December 10th, IMO anyway. And I say I think they want Wlad, I think they want him when the timing is perfect, and I'd bet they wan to see how he looks against somebody else first.

And quite rightly if there is a genuine lack of opponents for AJ and this is a keep active fight it's fair enough. It's not £16.95 fair enough though. in fact, it is a very good opportunity to put AJ on regular sky and reach out to the many people that are still not that bothered about boxing. And that's where you see the greed exposed. They won't do it because they've had one more PPV date to fill and they will fill it no matter what.

This is why they have rapidly turned AJ into a PPV figher only. So they can plan in these gauranteed PPV dates. Otherwise, PPV revenue hinges 100% on the standard of fights they make doesn't it. Certain fighters / fights they can get away with it, ala Brook Vs Gavin. But Quigg for example couldn't carry his own PPV show so they needed that fight with Frampton.

In a twisted way PPV (as much as I dislike it) could (should) be a good thing for the fans. Because it should mean top drawer fights. But it doesn't even mean that anymore under Eddies new strategy. What it means is they will put whatever they think they can get away with on PPV, and unfortunately they can get away with a hell of a lot.

It will be interesting to see AJ's next opponent now. Because this will be his second defence since becoming IBF title holder. After two nothing defences it's got to be a decent opponent. It just has to be. Anything less and it's an actual disgrace. I wouldn't even put it past Pricey being up next, I really wouldn't. Maybe draft in Tony Bellew if Haye won't take the fight. No doubt Edwin has already considered that prospect!

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Thu 03 Nov 2016, 11:02 am

The Eddy Hearn era has ushered in something that has never been seen before..

PPV for non-competitive fights



There should be uproar ppv for non-competitive fights this is what the man has delivered inherited his father's greed twofold I'm afraid


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Post by Ronikara on Thu 03 Nov 2016, 11:09 am

EX7EY- Agreed mate. I don't think anyone here can argue the Molina fight is PPV worthy, especially with such a poor undercard. Like you, I think its far more interesting to see who AJ's next opponent is. Anything less than a Wlad or Haye and everyone on here will rightly be screaming blue murder.

For what its worth, I think Eddie will put AJ in with Wlad next and they won't wait for Wlad to have another fight because of the calf injury. The potential reward of making AJ beat a legend and holding two belts will be too much to turn down. Sometimes, Eddie can be a little reckless with his fighters - just look at Brook v Golovkin as a prime example. I think he will do the same here knowing Wlad will not be around long enough to wait much more. Annoying for now, but here's hoping 2017 gives us the fight we all want against Wlad.

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Post by EX7EY on Thu 03 Nov 2016, 11:22 am

Ronikara wrote:EX7EY- Agreed mate. I don't think anyone here can argue the Molina fight is PPV worthy, especially with such a poor undercard. Like you, I think its far more interesting to see who AJ's next opponent is. Anything less than a Wlad or Haye and everyone on here will rightly be screaming blue murder.
You would think so, but not necessarily haha.

Let's hope 2017 does have some good fights in store for us. I think we deserve it after what 2016 has brought so far.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Thu 03 Nov 2016, 11:22 am

Strongy must/would be loving all these anti-Hearn/Matchroom threads.....lol

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Post by milkyboy on Thu 03 Nov 2016, 11:23 am

i hope none of the people complaining bought bellew cleverly 2! Very Happy

The problem for boxing fans is we have fragmentation of belts and fragmentation of media. It's happening with other sports too, as companies bid for football rights by competition etc, but it means that if you want to watch boxing, you have a sky subscription, a boxnation subscription and then fork out ppv. It adds up. I imagine most people don;t take all of them and get frustrated when their 'supplier' doesn't get the fights they want. I'm a sky subscriber because i enjoy other sports too, although its value is getting ever more diluted, but it's a joke for boxing. I've had boxnation in the past, but for all there were a few fights I enjoyed, most of the better ones were from across the pond at 4 o'clock in the morning and with a couple of ankle biters that's no longer an option for me.

I like the idea of a dedicated channel for boxing fans, but i suspect that if boxnation went bust, much of the content would end up on sky... now that sky seem to have a bit of a renewed interest in boxing. Of course it might end up on sky ppv!

They have us by the short and curlies whatever happens.

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Post by Ronikara on Thu 03 Nov 2016, 11:31 am

I sincerely hope boxnation does not go bust. Rather than much of the content ending up on sky, I suspect we wouldn't get the fights from America shown over here unless its absolutely huge. As for the 4am thing, I don't stay up, rather record and watch in the morning without knowing the result...

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Post by milkyboy on Thu 03 Nov 2016, 11:39 am

The channel only really existed because sky weren't showing those fights anymore Roni, but they seem to have a bit more of an interest now, fuelled by some successful shows, so who knows. On balance, they're more interested in milking the event, than showing much action so you're probably right about the yank fights.

Can't do the whole fight recording thing... If I know it's happened it's not the same watching it.

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Post by Pedro147 on Thu 03 Nov 2016, 11:47 am

I think the problem with the PPV model to a certain extent is that you get a fighter against bog standard opponents on your regular Sky package but once a decent fight comes along you've to pay an additional PPV fee. I understand it's a business and all that but people at this stage are just being exploited. As people have said, Joshua is PPV no matter what. They made Joshua vs Dillian Whyte out to be Ali vs Frasier but the reality was it was a very good prospect in Joshua fighting an overweight boxer who he lost to in the amatuers.

Frampton vs Quigg and Brook vs GGG are the only credible fights that should've been PPV this year. All the Joshua fights were robbery.

Speaking of Boxnation, does anybody know how they're doing? Is the model working or is Frank Warren losing money on it and will then liquidate the company as per his usual methods?

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Post by Rowley on Thu 03 Nov 2016, 12:18 pm

The other major issue with rubbish headliners on PPV which has been mentioned before but remains true is that in order to justify the tag and hook in the floating voters to buy is they tend to have to prop the show up with either a stacked undercard or a decent chief support. Saw it with Murray Groves and same for Chisora Whyte. The issue is those are two fights which would make solid Saturday night main events on regular Sky, which a turd of a main event has denied us.

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Post by EX7EY on Thu 03 Nov 2016, 12:44 pm

Rowley wrote:The other major issue with rubbish headliners on PPV which has been mentioned before but remains true is that in order to justify the tag and hook in the floating voters to buy is they tend to have to prop the show up with either a stacked undercard or a decent chief support. Saw it with Murray Groves and same for Chisora Whyte. The issue is those are two fights which would make solid Saturday night main events on regular Sky, which a turd of a main event has denied us.

Absolutely spot on. I was thinking exactly that earlier, that Whyte vs Chisora would have been decent Saturday night viewing on its own, but now its been gobbled into this farce.

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Post by catchweight on Thu 03 Nov 2016, 2:20 pm

Matchroom don’t like regular Saturday night cards. Not enough of a profit margin on them for them to get them too interested. The ones they do put on tend to be pretty cheap ones. They have a big enough stable of fighters that they could do a good card every couple of weeks. But there is often months with no regular cards or really poor quality ones.

Their model is to do ppv cards and use free Sky air time to advertise them so they can make a killing on the ppv sales. Less money spent on booking venues and promoting regular shows in favour of pushing big ppv ebvents every couple of months. More advertising to saturate a target audience who are not the really ardent boxing fans. On top of that these ppv are not even actual all that good. Joshua in a mismatch, Brook in a mismatch, Bellew v Cleverly, Haye v Bellew. Etc Usually mismatches.

Sky support all this which works out well for both parties. Even the Sky production feels like its been designed as a sales pitch most of the time.

I doubt Sky would have much of interest picking up the kind of fights Boxnation picks up regularly.

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Post by AdamT on Thu 03 Nov 2016, 3:11 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:My best bet was Hibbert to stop Martin in round 12 at 16/1.

Congratulations!

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Post by Derbymanc on Fri 04 Nov 2016, 10:01 am

Where's Strongy when you need him, i'm surprised he's not come back to gloat to be honest :-)

Go support your local shows and cards, stop jumping on every fighter who gets beaten as a 'hype' job and stop paying for the crap PPV's, money talks, and if it isn't there then Matchroom have to start doing something about it.

The 'you don't have to buy it' does have some merit but the more people buy crap, they more you'll get fed it. Why should Matchroom or any promoter risk their cashcows in hard fights when they can fight the local bouncer and earn both more money (better fighters cost more). No brainer for them, crap for us

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Post by rodders on Fri 04 Nov 2016, 10:47 am

Hearn has destroyed british boxing. He peddles overhyped paper champions,who are glorified domestic level fighters, in set up fights against bums with the help of the crooks in the WBA and IBF.

By contrast UK fighters who are genuine world class like Frampton, De Gale and Fury, or at least have competed at world level, get a fraction of the publicity and hype.

No wonder so many people are watching MMA.
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Post by bhb001 on Fri 04 Nov 2016, 12:36 pm

"Hearn has destroyed british boxing". Replace "Hearn" with "Warren" and we were saying the same thing 4 years ago. It was more fun then, seeing what the automatic checker changed "I am a bell end" (that's f!sheyes) to.

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Post by bhb001 on Fri 04 Nov 2016, 12:38 pm

laughing I really wasn't expecting it to change it to that!!

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Post by catchweight on Fri 04 Nov 2016, 1:09 pm

The Matchroom /Sky partnership I think clearly works well for both parties but its turned out as a big disappointment for real boxing fans I think.

The hope was that if one promotional outfit was running the show and enjoyed a big backing that it would break down barriers to cross promotional problems making fights. But Matchroom have used the monopoly and Sky backing to just push ppv products and 2nd rate match ups much of the time. They could put on better value and more regular shows but there is no incentive to because they have no rival cards to compete with on Sky.

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Post by compelling and rich on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 10:18 am

i miss the old friday fight nights, good old 50/50 fight normally the british/commonwealth title on the line and better action in them than all of the ppv/"big" card events we now get.

barely watch boxing anymore, dont see the point when 90% of the time i can tell you whats going to happen before its started.

sky boxing events have now become purely fluff pieces/advertisement for any sky fighter. the commentary is also terribly biased. dont see the point in subscribing to boxnation only to watch it the next day when the majority of people can do the same via alternative means

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 10:44 am

rodders wrote:Hearn has destroyed british boxing. He peddles overhyped paper champions,who are glorified domestic level fighters, in set up fights against bums with the help of the crooks in the WBA and IBF.

By contrast UK fighters who are genuine world class like Frampton, De Gale and Fury, or at least have competed at world level, get a fraction of the publicity and hype.

No wonder so many people are watching MMA.

This is a gross exaggeration, Hearn has made British boxing flourish and a few 'proper fans' online complaining about it doesn't seem to affect the viewing figures which enable him to carry on with his template. There's a feeling that unless you know boxing inside and out you're a proper fan of the sport and those that watch AJ or Brook are just puppets who will buy anything, they enjoy what they see so continue to watch.

Frampton and Fury are nothing to do with Hearn so they're lack of publicity is the fault of their promoters who lack the media savvy to get them across to a wider audience, a non boxnation audience.

AJ is an exception to the rule but I don't see where he puts his top fighters in against bums and when they do lose they complain that they've been matched too hard.

Until I hear of him not paying his boxers he's not in the same league as Frank Warren, they all get paid and they all get paid well for what they do.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 10:54 am

Lack the media savvy?


No what they lack is having Sky behind them

If you can't see Hearn peddles mismatches then the more fool you most of that post is true

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 11:02 am

They quite clearly lack the media savvy to market their fighters properly.

His cards contain mismatches which is standard for every single promoter but his top boxers tend to be matched quite well, if that were true they'd all be unbeaten. If we look at just Lightweight, Crolla, Mitchell and Campbell haven't exactly been put in mismatches have they.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 11:12 am

And you quite clearly are a wum

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 11:37 am

Standard retort.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 11:44 am

retort Laugh

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Post by catchweight on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 1:33 pm

The Matchroom monopoly they have with Sky is fundemental to allowing them to shape their policy. There is no way Matchroom would be able to get away with their crappy ppv events if they had to compete for limited ppv dates with other promoters and their fighters. Its a shame Sky wont back fighters like Frampton without Matchroom being involved. Its working out dreadfully for the real fans of the boxing.

I think where the likes of Warren and Matchroom differ is underlined in the respective channels they operate on. Warren pitches his promotion at lifeblood boxing fans. Its about the boxing. Matchroom are event promoters. Whether its boxing, darts, poker, snooker even fishing etc. Its about promoting an event and pitching it to people who are not necessarily lifeblood fans. I think they do that pretty successfully (helped hugely by having a behemoth like Sky backing). They get huge audience saturation from advertising. In boxing its meant that the existing fans of the sport have been marginalised in favour of chasing a different kind of audience who are happy to pay for a handful of ppv events irrespective of quality and are not really interested in following boxing on a regular basis so reduces the neccessity of putting on regular competitve cards.

Its a pity, because I think there is room for both the Matchroom style model without having bypass the real boxing fans. But its a very specific model Matchroom and Sky are using. Regular good quality competitve cards with ppv events every so often that are worthy of their ppv billing is not something that needs be out of reach.



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Post by Herman Jaeger on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 3:00 pm

Are they into fishing too lol anything for a buck eh

As someone said on another forum the other day Eddy would put his lips on an a$$hole if he thought he could suck out a pound note

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Sun 06 Nov 2016, 11:32 pm

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sUe-rjMfer4


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H8J_7U0wTGU

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Post by bhb001 on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 7:25 am

Warren is the person who arranged for Calzaghe at his peak to fight a reality TV star. Sure. He is all about the boxing!

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Post by AZZJ44 on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 10:02 am

Hearn is putting most blokes in a position where a lot will moan but end up buying it when it comes to the night of the event. If a nights boxing is costing £16.95 and the alternative to it is watching Honey G, then Hearn can have my cash. I'm principled to a point but boxing is up there with football for me as my fav sport so it's better than the alternative.

That doesn't mean I can't see that the card isn't what I would think was ppv worthy and I'm not a "casual". I see it for what it is.

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Post by catchweight on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 11:56 am

Yes. This is the problem with the Sky/Matchroom monopoly. There is only a poor choice. Instead of having a good card every 2/3 weeks on Sky Sports, they can focus on just building up 5/6 ppv cards a year without any real concern on quality.

If Sky decided to back boxing, rather than just back Matchrooms boxing, the competition for ppv slots and tv time should lead to better quality cards. Matchroom however, might well then start to withdraw or lose interest in boxing if they had to compete for slots (that is what happened in the past).

Realistically, no promoter is going to be bending over backwards to accommodate fans. They all chase the money. But Matchroom and Sky are taking the p1ss with their format. They could deliver a much better schedule and still make plenty of money. Its only going in one direction though. The evolution of ppv from Froch v Kessler style matches to Joshua v Breazale or Brook v Gavin in the space of a few years.

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AJ Vs Molina CONFIRMED - Page 2 Empty Re: AJ Vs Molina CONFIRMED

Post by Herman Jaeger on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 12:40 pm

I've never known any promoter deliver a series of such low quality ppv's as Eddy Hearn in the history of the ppv format

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AJ Vs Molina CONFIRMED - Page 2 Empty Re: AJ Vs Molina CONFIRMED

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