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Dill & Del

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Post by EX7EY on Wed 02 Nov 2016, 8:20 am

What are people's thoughts about this fight? It's worth talking about more than the main event IMO.

I know a few people rate Dillian, I don't see it myself. There's a chap I follow on youtube and in his latest video he basically says he says no way for Derek to win, Dillian has too much skill, too much fitness etc. I was a bit shocked at that assesment to be honest.

I think Whyte is very average, I don't think he has tremendous fitness although admittedly he is fitter than when he took on Joshua, and i think as far as boxing skills go he is very average, and that may be being generous.

I think he can take a good dig, so I can't see Del blasting him out. In fact I think this fight goes the distance with both men blowing out of their backsides from round 7/8 onwards. Scrappy, sloppy, mess of a fight with a lot of leaning and a lot of clubbing, slapping punches that don't really land clean. I think Chisora wins this personally, as long as he turns up semi fit and semi motivated. I think he's got far too much experience for Whyte. He was 7/4 when I checked last night as well, can't pass that up I don;t think!

It's clear what Eddie has planned for Dillian. Certainly an AJ rematch is on the cards somewhere down the line as long as Whyte doesn't get exposed beforehand. In an ideal world he wants Whyte to pick up a World strap and make it an all British, London, bitter grudge unification extravaganza, with a stacked undercard of course Very Happy

Apparently this is an eliminator for a shot at the WBC title. Dill and Del are rated 13th & 14th respectively by the WBC so not sure how the works? Is it a final eliminator? Or is it just an eliminator? I don't know how this stuff works anymore, not sure if anybody in the world other than Eddie Hearn does either Smile

Thoughts

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Post by Pedro147 on Wed 02 Nov 2016, 8:28 am

It's an eliminator for a 'Final Eliminator Emeritus'

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Post by Ronikara on Wed 02 Nov 2016, 10:07 am

There is no way this fight is a real eliminator for the WBC with both fighters ranked so low. Still waiting for Wilder v Povetkin.

As for the fight itself, I think its a good match up. I thought Dilian looked quite good against Joshua in certain parts of their fight. However, he hasn't exactly covered himself in glory against journeymen like Dave Allen and Ian Lewison since. As for Del Boy, he's good domestic level but always falls just below the required standard at World level. I expect Dillian to win this on points but this is a good benchmark for him.

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Post by EX7EY on Wed 02 Nov 2016, 10:34 am

Agree it's a good benchmark for Dillian Ronikara. But I can't agree he looked good against AJ. I thought he looked extremely poor and lacked some serious fundamentals. He was unfit, crossing his feet, eating big shots etc etc. I could have seen it all wrong because as I mention in the opening post, a lot of people think Dillian Whyte is a decent prospect. So I'm not trying to start an argument by disagreeing, jsut to be clear. I respect your opinion.

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Post by Ronikara on Wed 02 Nov 2016, 10:54 am

Fair play EX7EY. I just think that considering Dillian injured his shoulder during that fight, he still caused AJ problems that we haven't seen AJ face in any other fight. Yes he took a fair amount of punishment, but he took it and came back swinging. For a 15 or so fight novice, I thought he looked like he had potential against AJ and I was disappointed by his last 3 performances. But the clash against Del Boy is the benchmark where we will see if he really is any good or not. I still wouldn't put any money on Chisora for this fight though mate. I expect Whyte to win on points.

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Post by EX7EY on Wed 02 Nov 2016, 11:03 am

At 7/4 I think it is definitely worth a punt. I'll pribably wait and see how Chis looks during the build up and how they square off against one another. But value bets don't come along that often in boxing and I genuinely beleive 7/4 is a very tastey price on Del.

And yes he did keep coming at AJ, Whytes definitely game and has a big set of nuts, I won't take that away from him. Just don't think he has the skills. Always happy and open to being proved wrong though. We need all the decent heavyweights we can get at the moment.

And if Whyte has/does improve, an AJ rematch down the line may actually turn out to be a fight we do genuinely want to see.

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Post by milkyboy on Wed 02 Nov 2016, 11:08 am

many disagree but i think a fit and motivated chisora is a decent heavy, and a better boxer than i've seen evidence from from whyte thus far. Both can take a shot, so you'd expect a long night, whyte's conditioning looked poor against AJ and he's not used to long fights. If it was a fit and motivated chisora, I'd like his chances. The if is a big if though.

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Post by EX7EY on Wed 02 Nov 2016, 11:14 am

I think that is the key Milky. How fit and motivsted is Del at this stage of his career? Is he just trying to cash cheques before bowing out? Probably. But if he want's anymore decent sized cheques after this he does have to look decent against Whyte, IMO. So there may be the motivation.

Also agree Del is a half decent heavy on his day. Certainly not somebody that will get bowled over by a prospect, unless said prospect turns out to be the real deal. Which as I've said, not convinced by Whyte.

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Post by Ronikara on Wed 02 Nov 2016, 11:17 am

This really is last chance saloon for Del Boy. He's lost to Vitali, Tyson Fury (twice), Haye, Helenius (controversial but still a loss) and Pulev. If he loses this, he really has nowhere to go and as it is he is already a domestic gate keeper. So I think he will be fit and he will be motivated. The so called grudge between them is a joke of course but there is the issue of bragging rights. Problem is I don't think that will be enough as Whyte knows his stock would fall through the floor if he loses as well so he will be motivated for this one as well. Its the fight of the night. Not PPV worthy of course but what can you do. I don't see Whyte bowling him over, like Milky says they can both take a shot so expect a long night. But I still can't see Dillian losing this one.

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Post by Ronikara on Wed 02 Nov 2016, 11:33 am

EX7EY - I've just been looking at oddschecker and you're right, there really aren't many value bets out there at the moment, But if you want to make one, the one I would suggest is Kovalev to beat Ward at 6/5...

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Post by EX7EY on Wed 02 Nov 2016, 11:38 am

Ronikara wrote:EX7EY - I've just been looking at oddschecker and you're right, there really aren't many value bets out there at the moment, But if you want to make one, the one I would suggest is Kovalev to beat Ward at 6/5...

And therein lies the root cause of my current frustration in the world of boxing at the moment I think. Having to dig around the bookies for a pick em fight. How very dull. Obviously odds are occasionaly upset now and again, but the bookies give you an indication of the type of fights that are being made.

Interesting that you are tipping Kovalev to me. As just last night I was thinking about a Ward, Chisora, Frampton treble Smile


Last edited by EX7EY on Wed 02 Nov 2016, 11:49 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Ronikara on Wed 02 Nov 2016, 11:44 am

I know, depressing state of affairs. But at least this month we have two great fights with Ward/Kovalev and Lomachenko/Walters. I'm going to tip the power punchers - Kovalev and Walters because I love the knock out merchants. With my history of tips though, you're safer with a Ward/Lomachenko double!

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Wed 02 Nov 2016, 12:39 pm

There are good value fights out there but the bookies don't tend to pick many of them up, outside of the household names they don't bother, there's more value in going for method of victory.

Campbell stopping Matthews and Broner stopping Theophane got me decent returns as did AJ stopping Martin in round 2.

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Post by milkyboy on Wed 02 Nov 2016, 12:51 pm

I'm not a betting man but even I couldn't resist the aj v Martin odds. Opened an account, took free bets out on an AJ KO in each of the first 4 rounds. Candy from a baby.

I was too lazy to find my login, so missed out on the excellent odds for linares to beat Crolla on pts, that someone kindly posted on here.

The best odds I saw were the fight a year or so ago, where they were still taking bets on an undercard fight that had finished. Someone on here made a few quid.

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Post by EX7EY on Wed 02 Nov 2016, 1:36 pm

Haha, odds on a fight that had finished. Absolute gold!

Linares on points against Crolla was great. Proper regretted not taking them after the fight, but as a mancunian supporting Crolla, I couldnt do it.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Wed 02 Nov 2016, 1:39 pm

Agree on Linares, hindsight is a wonderful thing but I can't bet against a boxer I like, Bellew beating Makabu by stoppage was good odds too.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 02 Nov 2016, 3:33 pm

EX7EY wrote:WI think Chisora wins this personally, as long as he turns up semi fit and semi motivated.

Thoughts

And that's where your prediction falls down.....Chis is nowt more than a shot bum now. Been nothing since Haye and if he couldn't get in shape for Fury (a rematch of a fight he coulda/shoulda/woulda won once already) he certianly isn't training away from KFC for Whyte.

Chis' lack of pop combined with Dill's chin means he isn't stopping him early either. No chance in hell.

Can see Whyte finishing this in mid-late rounds when Chis is blowing out his backside. Dill isn't up to much but he's got more speed power and chin than Chis at least.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 02 Nov 2016, 3:39 pm

milkyboy wrote:many disagree but i think a fit and motivated chisora is a decent heavy, and a better boxer than i've seen evidence from from whyte thus far. Both can take a shot, so you'd expect a long night, whyte's conditioning looked poor against AJ and he's not used to long fights. If it was a fit and motivated chisora, I'd like his chances. The if is a big if though.

Last seen sipping cocktails with Amelia Earhart.....

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Wed 02 Nov 2016, 3:42 pm

He was in decent nick against Pulev, performed quite well too Toppy.

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Post by Ronikara on Wed 02 Nov 2016, 4:15 pm

Disagree with you there Toppy. Chisora is ok and did his best against Pulev. But sadly for him, his best wasn't good enough just like it wasn't any time he has faced world level opponents. The one time he was seriously out of shape was the first Fury fight. After that, I don't think he's been in any worse shape than other heavyweights. He just found his level.

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Post by catchweight on Wed 02 Nov 2016, 6:59 pm

Chisora is a lot better than Whyte from what I have seen so far. Both guys clearly dont mind skipping training now and again though. Whoever wants it more in the gym could decide it. Il take Chisora at 7/4 odds certainly.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Fri 04 Nov 2016, 12:50 pm

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-l0mwrdutw8

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Post by Mr Bounce on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 7:35 pm

I have always regarded Chisora as half decent without a meaningful punch whereas Whyte seems to me to be crude but generally effective against the opposition he's faced, Joshua aside. 

Chisora has never been able to really bring it at the highest level (I did however think he beat Helenius) so this may be his last shot at getting something half decent right.

It's fairly intriguing .  How much has Whyte learned since Joshua and how much has Chisora got left? In theory Dereck should walk this but I think that his time has passed. I think he gets tagged heavily by Whyte en route to a 7th round tko loss.

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Post by lambertm100 on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 8:17 am

You often get great odds on foreign fighters to beat average British fighters further down the card, in fights people don't take as much notice off. I got 4/1 on Carson Jones to beat Brian Rose, which looked generous odds for 2 evenly matched fighters.

I'll probably back Whyte KO or Chisora points on this one depending on which is more generous. I can't decide if Del still has the desire and the chin.

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Post by sittingringside on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 2:20 pm

I think the Chisora of a few years ago would win this, but I think he's just a bit too shopworn. He'll start purposefully, but when it comes to the hard yards I see Whyte having just a bit more hunger to get it done. I'll go for Whyte by retirement round 10. In other news, does anyone know what Dereck was talking about in The Gloves are Off preview where he kept saying 'who is the donkey now?'.

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Post by neilodonnell on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 3:45 pm

Dillian to win by any means 1/2. Decent odds IMO.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 1:36 pm

Have this worrying feeling these two are going to be the reason a sizeable chunk of people buy this PPV....Certainly going out of their way to create acrimony.....Handbags at a sit down with Nelson apparently......That somehow found its way on to the net...

Wonder if SKY will look for the culprit.............

Seems to be acrimony on the weaker Hearn PPV cards..

Worth bearing in mind Whyte's claim to fame is winning one round of an eight round spanking against a still novice Champion and that Chisora is an ordinary slob who's career is going nowhere and is looking for paydays......

Don't get your hopes up.............It's a stinker if Chisora is in it to win or a walkover if Chisora is prostituting himself for a pay check..


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Post by aja424 on Mon 21 Nov 2016, 1:17 pm

Is this really PPV?
More of a rip off than Mr Winklechops vs notsocleverly!
Both between about 10-15 in the rankings. Good domestic fight and will probably watch it if my subscription covered it.

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Post by aja424 on Mon 21 Nov 2016, 1:20 pm

Actually, just seen these two face off. Will definitely be buying this now, they genuinely don't like each other!

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Post by BoxingFan88 on Mon 21 Nov 2016, 2:00 pm

aja424 wrote:Actually, just seen these two face off. Will definitely be buying this now, they genuinely don't like each other!

Didn't we think that about most face offs

Whyte hates Joshua

Bellew hates Cleverly

Spike hates Eubank

etc...

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Post by JabMachineMK2 on Mon 21 Nov 2016, 3:23 pm

Can't call this. Whyte is a decent but limited fighter who slugs more than he boxes, but has more stamina than Chisora. Against Joshua I think he gets slated a bit too much for running out of gas, but you have to think of how frantic some of those rounds were. He's got a chin too.

Chisora will be right up for this - when he's up for it, he does well. Against Haye, they were actually mates so that didn't mean anything in the ring. He doesn't actually like Whyte though and I can see him seeing this as a shot into the big time. Beat Whyte and he's got a legitimate road into Browne/Wilder which are winnable (I'm a big Wilder detractor, shoot me) and then a unification with Joshua.

Chisora points after a strong 7/8 rounds or a Whyte KO in around 8/9.

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Post by aja424 on Mon 21 Nov 2016, 10:30 pm

Sarcasm doesn't always come across on line BF, soz mate was joking.

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Post by EX7EY on Tue 22 Nov 2016, 9:06 am

I've decided I'm definitely going with Chisora on this one now, 100%. I've seen nothing from Whyte that makes me think he will be able to mix it anywhere near the top level. He's got a chin and he can do rounds, that's all I see. Ability and technique wise Whyte is average at best IMO. All Eddie Hearn is doing with him is steering him onto the path for a Joshua rematch, which would be an easier nights work for Aj second time round.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sat 26 Nov 2016, 9:11 am

Think some posters with all due respect forget that these guys are at different ends of their careers when looking at this match up. .

We have the hungry Whyte who's career is ahead of him.. and a tired persistent loser who knows his best days are behind him and is viewing retirement...Motivation being a question mark...

One way traffic for me.....Don't buy the card if this is your trigger fight would be my advice.

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Post by EX7EY on Sat 26 Nov 2016, 10:34 am

Could well be right Truss, can't argue the logic. I just do not rate Whyte at all, I don't rate Chisora either but I just think he has far too much experience for Whyte.

Maybe Whyte is still improving and he is going to turn out to be fringe world level, which wouldn't really be that hard in the current heavyweight scene. But I just think ability wise he is pretty bad and I think anything resembling a proper opponent puts an end to him, just like against AJ. The question is simply wether Chisora is still considered a proper opponent I suppose.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sat 26 Nov 2016, 12:00 pm

EX7EY wrote:Could well be right Truss, can't argue the logic. I just do not rate Whyte at all, I don't rate Chisora either but I just think he has far too much experience for Whyte.

Maybe Whyte is still improving and he is going to turn out to be fringe world level, which wouldn't really be that hard in the current heavyweight scene. But I just think ability wise he is pretty bad and I think anything resembling a proper opponent puts an end to him, just like against AJ. The question is simply wether Chisora is still considered a proper opponent I suppose.

Your guess is as good as mine...

We know Chisora is close to retirement
He's used to losing
He has had plenty of beatings and the body only wants so much..

I don't see what you see...

But it doesn't mean I'm right..

I picked Haye to beat Wlad.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Sat 26 Nov 2016, 4:00 pm

Any good ???


https://youtu.be/SygEpV30fMc

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 1:28 pm

I would say not a good Nigel Benn, a serviceable Eubank, and if you close your eyes that's almost Honeyghan himself for a second lol

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Post by EX7EY on Sun 11 Dec 2016, 11:24 am

Think although I went for a chisora victory, my assessment was pretty close.

Ended up with both of them falling to bits fitness wise after about 7 rounds, although Whyte maybe got a bit of a second wind which probably won him the fight in the end.

Think Whytes level really got exposed last night. British/European operator at best. Maybe he can mix it on the world scene due to the lack of quality in the division. Pretty sure he gets sparked every time he faces someone decent though. Del Boy is so far past his prime, especially in terms of conditioning.

Really wanted Del to get the nod at the end and not just because I took the 7/4!

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Mon 12 Dec 2016, 12:22 am

Dill & Del Imagejpeg

Dill & Del Imagejpeg

Maybe we could do a caption competition for these two stills, good fight looking forward to watching it again hats off to both let's hope they get to do it all over again there was nothing to separate them maybe a draw would have been a fair result Derek seemed to land the harder shots but my picture quality was poor

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