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Ireland v New Zealand, 19 November

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Ireland v New Zealand, 19 November - Page 4 Empty Ireland v New Zealand, 19 November

Post by George Carlin Mon 14 Nov 2016, 7:15 am

First topic message reminder :

Ireland v New Zealand, 19 November - Page 4 Irelan10       Ireland v New Zealand, 19 November - Page 4 All_bl10
IRELAND v NEW ZEALAND
19 November 2016
KO: 17:30
Aviva Stadium, Dublin

Live on Sky Sports 2

Referee: Jaco Peyper (South Africa)
Assistant referees: Mathieu Raynal (France), Ian Davies (Wales)
Television match official: Jon Mason (Wales)
Assessor: Chris White (England)

A. Head to Head

29 Played 29
1 Won 27
1 Drawn 1
27 Lost 1
310 Points 812

B. Recent Form 

5 November 2016
Soldier Field, Chicago IL
40–29 to Ireland

24 November 2013 
Aviva Stadium, Dublin 
22 – 24 to New Zealand 

23 June 2012 
Waikato Stadium, Hamilton 
60 – 0 to New Zealand 

16 June 2012 
Rugby League Park, Christchurch 
22 – 19 to New Zealand

9 June 2012 
Eden Park, Auckland 
42 – 10 to New Zealand

20 November 2010 
Aviva Stadium, Dublin 
18 – 38 to New Zealand 

C. Teams

IRELAND 
Ireland v New Zealand, 19 November - Page 4 Guinne10
R Kearney; A Trimble, J Payne, R Henshaw, S Zebo; J Sexton, C Murray; J McGrath, R Best, T Furlong; D Toner, D Ryan; CJ Stander, S O'Brien, J Heaslip.

Replacements: S Cronin, C Healy, F Bealham, I Henderson, J van der Flier, K Marmion, P Jackson, G Ringrose.

NEW ZEALAND
Ireland v New Zealand, 19 November - Page 4 Speigh10
B Smith; I Dagg, M Fekitoa, A Lienert-Brown, J Savea; B Barrett, A Smith; J Moody, D Coles, O Franks; B Retallick, S Whitelock; L Squire, S Can, K Read (capt).

Replacements: C Taylor, W Crockett, C Faumuina, S Barrett, A Savea, TJ Perenara, A Cruden, W Naholo.


Last edited by George Carlin on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 12:35 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Post by SecretFly Fri 18 Nov 2016, 2:26 pm

cascough wrote:

Smith was garbage. He will be wanting to right that wrong, not outplay the Ireland 9. IMO.

Well he'll be doing one to do the other. They come together. I think semantics is creeping into this debate.

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Post by GunsGermsV2 Fri 18 Nov 2016, 2:29 pm

Anyone see the picture of Ben from accounts' try in Chicago that shows his foot was clearly in touch about a foot from the line. I have no idea how they thought that that was a try.

The linesman was looking right at it too.

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Post by marty2086 Fri 18 Nov 2016, 2:43 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Anyone see the picture of Ben from accounts' try in Chicago that shows his foot was clearly in touch about a foot from the line. I have no idea how they thought that that was a try.

The linesman was looking right at it too.

Cant see it anywhere but the cameramen were in rubbish positions all game and the touch judge was probably watching the grounding more than the feet

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Post by GunsGermsV2 Fri 18 Nov 2016, 2:46 pm

For some reason I cant post links or photos but Im looking at the pic and it is really clearly out. It actually wasnt even close to being in. It was also posted on page three of therugbyforums thread on Ireland v New Zealand if you want to look for it there.

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Post by marty2086 Fri 18 Nov 2016, 2:50 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:For some reason I cant post links or photos but Im looking at the pic and it is really clearly out. It actually wasnt even close to being in. It was also posted on page three of therugbyforums thread on Ireland v New Zealand if you want to look for it there.

That's to make sure you aren't a retread who got kicked off for being a big meanie to somebody

Think this is what you mean

Ireland v New Zealand, 19 November - Page 4 6pw8ew10

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Post by SecretFly Fri 18 Nov 2016, 2:52 pm

I looked at it at the time - and for me, it was a genuine IN try.

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Post by GunsGermsV2 Fri 18 Nov 2016, 2:54 pm

marty2086 wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:For some reason I cant post links or photos but Im looking at the pic and it is really clearly out. It actually wasnt even close to being in. It was also posted on page three of therugbyforums thread on Ireland v New Zealand if you want to look for it there.

That's to make sure you aren't a retread who got kicked off for being a big meanie to somebody

Think this is what you mean

Ireland v New Zealand, 19 November - Page 4 6pw8ew10

I was no more mean to them in retaliation than they were to me unprovoked. I cant see the picture. Must be blocked on my browser or something.

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Post by wolfball Fri 18 Nov 2016, 3:40 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:I dont think every Kiwi player is necessarly focusing on their opposite number and worrying about what they will do. I have no doubt however, that the management will have looked at what Ireland players do well and what we dont do well and look at ways to exploit potential weaknesses or sure up potential threats.

For example Murray scored a nice try from a snipe at the ruck in the last match when he sold Smith a dummy. For the game tomorrow Aaron Smith will have been told to watch out for this and not make the same mistake again. The All Blacks are the best team in the world. Do you really think that they dont look at things like this?

They may be any number of things like this that the AB players have been told to work on or watch out for with reference to their opposite number. That doesnt mean that they cant also focus on their own game too.

Also the whole line of thought NZ ignore other teams/play their own game implies that NZ's style of play never changes/won't change. This is absurd. NZ have adopted a style of play that currently very few teams can be competitive with. Nothing lasts forever and teams can and will become competitive with it, either through adopting a similar style or a different style that negates NZs style. At that point, NZ will have to adapt, after all they will be losing matches. I do not think this Ireland team are the team to make NZ go back to the drawing board, regardless of who wins tomorrow, however, individual players would be foolish to not try and exploit particular weaknesses in opposition numbers. Dan Coles should look at Rory Best who ate him for dinner the other week. If Coles is of the mindset "I'm the best in the world, i just need to fulfil that standard" and RB does it again, where is Mr Coles left? Still best in the world? You are only the best in the world in the cauldron of playing against your opposite numbers. I do not think RB is a better player than Coles, but it is for Coles to prove that time and time again, not for him or any player to rest on their laurels. All that being said, I think NZ do focus on their opposite numbers and the supposition that they do not is not based on much evidence.

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Post by wolfball Fri 18 Nov 2016, 3:47 pm

SecretFly wrote:I looked at it at the time - and for me, it was a genuine IN try.

I also thought it was a try, but looking at it now, I think I was looking at the wrong (his right) foot. The left is clearly in touch. Still, nice to win without worrying about such decisions. Though it would be nice tomorrow for referees to actually award the team YC they have warned multiple times about. Whistle

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Post by SecretFly Fri 18 Nov 2016, 3:55 pm

It's a picture and it goes against my memory because at the time I wanted to be satisfied with myself that it was in. I'd have to see the footage again and the angles.

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Post by marty2086 Fri 18 Nov 2016, 4:16 pm

SecretFly wrote:It's a picture and it goes against my memory because at the time I wanted to be satisfied with myself that it was in.  I'd have to see the footage again and the angles.

The angles don't show it, there was no camera at ground level to catch it everything was from above

Bloody Americans cant do anything right these days Rolling Eyes

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Post by aucklandlaurie Fri 18 Nov 2016, 4:21 pm

marty2086 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:It's a picture and it goes against my memory because at the time I wanted to be satisfied with myself that it was in.  I'd have to see the footage again and the angles.

The angles don't show it, there was no camera at ground level to catch it everything was from above

Bloody Americans cant do anything right these days Rolling Eyes

Trumped up allegation that?

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Post by SecretFly Fri 18 Nov 2016, 4:22 pm

I'm frustrated now... because I just seem to recall that I settled it in my own mind at the time that it was a good one. I try to be ruthlessly fair when analysing them and felt I had all the info I needed.

But damn it, it seems one slipped by on me! mad

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Post by marty2086 Fri 18 Nov 2016, 4:25 pm

SecretFly wrote:I'm frustrated now... because I just seem to recall that I settled it in my own mind at the time that it was a good one.  I try to be ruthlessly fair when analysing them and felt I had all the info I needed.

But damn it, it seems one slipped by on me! mad

You think that's bad just think of all the games you have watched and done the same with and then all the decisions you may have gotten wrong Shocked Erm

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Post by SecretFly Fri 18 Nov 2016, 5:03 pm

What's the chances of us blasting out of the blocks again, the ABs finding that even though they're prepared for us this time they still can't make headway, us beating them again...but then losing badly, terribly, ignominiously, shamefully, pathetically to the bloody Aussies?

We kinda like those masochistic warped-logic shows in Ireland so................ I'm wondering.  The chances of us going through such a tough AI season unbeaten is practically impossible.  So maybe I'd take a close loss to the ABs and then marmalise the Aussies.  I'm thinking that might be the best result if we're set to lose one.

Of course, if we lose both - back to the drawing board one more time.

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Post by wolfball Fri 18 Nov 2016, 5:06 pm

SecretFly wrote:What's the chances of us blasting out of the blocks again, the ABs finding that even though they're prepared for us this time they still can't make headway, us beating them again...but then losing badly, terribly, ignominiously, shamefully, pathetically to the bloody Aussies?

We kinda like those masochistic warped-logic shows in Ireland so................ I'm wondering.  The chances of us going through such a tough AI season unbeaten is practically impossible.  So maybe I'd take a close loss to the ABs and then marmalise the Aussies.  I'm thinking that might be the best result if we're set to lose one.

Of course, if we lose both - back to the drawing board one more time.

I'd say us beating the ABs again would mean our odds against Aus decline slightly (no #underdog to depend on), but to be honest Aus are no great shakes at the moment and I think we are slight favorites against them regardless of the NZ match - well unless NZ really hammers us, then that messes up confidence and then the Aus game will be alot harder.

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Post by Guest Fri 18 Nov 2016, 6:41 pm

Ireland by 1

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Post by profitius Fri 18 Nov 2016, 6:52 pm

It was snowing today and it looks like it could be fairly cool tomorrow evening. Maybe there'll be a drop of rain in the mix also and a bit of a breeze.. maybe. That wouldn't be ideal weather for throwing the ball around. I'm not sure the islander boys will like that. Wink
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Post by SecretFly Fri 18 Nov 2016, 6:55 pm


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Post by carpet baboon Fri 18 Nov 2016, 7:09 pm

SecretFly wrote:What's the chances of us blasting out of the blocks again, the ABs finding that even though they're prepared for us this time they still can't make headway, us beating them again...but then losing badly, terribly, ignominiously, shamefully, pathetically to the bloody Aussies?

We kinda like those masochistic warped-logic shows in Ireland so................ I'm wondering.  The chances of us going through such a tough AI season unbeaten is practically impossible.  So maybe I'd take a close loss to the ABs and then marmalise the Aussies.  I'm thinking that might be the best result if we're set to lose one.

Of course, if we lose both - back to the drawing board one more time.

Fly. Fly. Oh secretfly.

We shall beat nz. Then totally and manfully shame the Aussies by a score that scars them for years to come.

Maybe

Hopefully.

Oh Christ please

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Post by SecretFly Fri 18 Nov 2016, 7:19 pm

carpet baboon wrote:
SecretFly wrote:What's the chances of us blasting out of the blocks again, the ABs finding that even though they're prepared for us this time they still can't make headway, us beating them again...but then losing badly, terribly, ignominiously, shamefully, pathetically to the bloody Aussies?

We kinda like those masochistic warped-logic shows in Ireland so................ I'm wondering.  The chances of us going through such a tough AI season unbeaten is practically impossible.  So maybe I'd take a close loss to the ABs and then marmalise the Aussies.  I'm thinking that might be the best result if we're set to lose one.

Of course, if we lose both - back to the drawing board one more time.

Fly. Fly. Oh secretfly.

We shall beat nz. Then totally and manfully shame the Aussies by a score that scars them for years to come.

Maybe

Hopefully.

Oh Christ please

Shut the hell up, carpet! Don't ruin this on me. My affected morbidity won it for us last time! Cool

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Post by Geen sport voor watjes Fri 18 Nov 2016, 11:00 pm

Two things. 1 Andy Farrell (showing up how bad Kiss has been). Excellent defense and effective use of the ball across the backline. 2. Schmidt is in the abs heads a big like France in the 90s. We will win this because of those reasons. Ireland by 8.

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Post by uncle_nigel Sat 19 Nov 2016, 10:29 am

Gentlemen, is this match being shown live on BT sport just like the test in Chicago?

p.s. Come on Ireland!

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Post by carpet baboon Sat 19 Nov 2016, 10:54 am

Now sky sports 2

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Post by uncle_nigel Sat 19 Nov 2016, 10:56 am

carpet baboon wrote:Now sky sports 2

OK thumbsup

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Post by emack2 Sat 19 Nov 2016, 1:08 pm

Given the injury status of some NZ players with the possible exception
of Matt Todd for Sam Cane.The strongest possible available the weather
won`t worry them.
If you can play in Wellington and Invercargill you can play anywhere at
last I get to watch NZ in the AI`s no doubt the france match won`t be
available on sky sports.

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Post by marty2086 Sat 19 Nov 2016, 3:55 pm

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:Two things. 1 Andy Farrell (showing up how bad Kiss has been)

Rolling Eyes

They conceded less points in 2013 against a stronger NZ team with Kiss as defence coach and there wasnt a defence coach for nearly a year after the RWC

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Post by clivemcl Sat 19 Nov 2016, 5:46 pm

Think the commentators are being rather biased there. How much did Cane really know about the coming contact. Henshaw spun into his path. You say he lead with the shoulder or didnt wrap the arms. He cant mindread Henshaw's change in direction directly towards him.

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Post by Rory_Gallagher Sat 19 Nov 2016, 5:54 pm

"Can you see a clear grounding?"

"I can see a clear grounding."

Blatant, blatant lie! There was nothing clear about that.

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Post by Guest Sat 19 Nov 2016, 5:54 pm

TMO is lying.

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Post by clivemcl Sat 19 Nov 2016, 5:55 pm

Sorry Rory, but I agree with TMO. Second angle makes it seem like Sexton's arm was under it, but first angle proves otherwise. You'll need to take another look.

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Post by Rory_Gallagher Sat 19 Nov 2016, 5:57 pm

clivemcl wrote:Sorry Rory, but I agree with TMO. Second angle makes it seem like Sexton's arm was under it, but first angle proves otherwise. You'll need to take another look.

No need to apologise. You saw the ball touch the ground? Interesting.

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Post by Rory_Gallagher Sat 19 Nov 2016, 6:07 pm

Seriously, the cynicism of NZ is ridiculous. Then again, if you get away with it...

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Post by clivemcl Sat 19 Nov 2016, 6:14 pm

three forced subs before the half hour mark... not exactly ideal

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Post by Taylorman Sat 19 Nov 2016, 6:17 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:"Can you see a clear grounding?"

"I can see a clear grounding."

Blatant, blatant lie! There was nothing clear about that.

What part of the first view of the grounding can you not see the ball touching the ground Rory?

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Post by marty2086 Sat 19 Nov 2016, 6:20 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Seriously, the cynicism of NZ is ridiculous. Then again, if you get away with it...

Its not cynical its dangerous, there is no way the amount of different dangerous tackles going in that its not a tactic

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Post by marty2086 Sat 19 Nov 2016, 6:20 pm

Taylorman wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:"Can you see a clear grounding?"

"I can see a clear grounding."

Blatant, blatant lie! There was nothing clear about that.

What part of the first view of the grounding can you not see the ball touching the ground Rory?

You cant though if it is its in the shadows of it all

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Post by Rugby Fan Sat 19 Nov 2016, 6:22 pm

Australia will be relieved about Ireland's injury toll so far.

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Post by mid_gen Sat 19 Nov 2016, 6:23 pm

Regardless of your alignment, this is brilliant rugby. Absolutely loving it.

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Post by Taylorman Sat 19 Nov 2016, 6:25 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:"Can you see a clear grounding?"

"I can see a clear grounding."

Blatant, blatant lie! There was nothing clear about that.

What part of the first view of the grounding can you not see the ball touching the ground Rory?

You cant though if it is its in the shadows of it all

Well my TVs pretty good. Ball, grass, no shadows. Clear grounding.
10-2 penalty count to Ireland. Hmm.

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Post by marty2086 Sat 19 Nov 2016, 6:26 pm

Taylorman wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:"Can you see a clear grounding?"

"I can see a clear grounding."

Blatant, blatant lie! There was nothing clear about that.

What part of the first view of the grounding can you not see the ball touching the ground Rory?

You cant though if it is its in the shadows of it all

Well my TVs pretty good. Ball, grass, no shadows. Clear grounding.
10-2 penalty count to Ireland. Hmm.

Well you are seeing things you cannot at any point see the ball touching the ground

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Post by Rory_Gallagher Sat 19 Nov 2016, 6:27 pm

Taylorman wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:"Can you see a clear grounding?"

"I can see a clear grounding."

Blatant, blatant lie! There was nothing clear about that.

What part of the first view of the grounding can you not see the ball touching the ground Rory?

Eh...the whole part? There were arms in the way from what I could see on my screen. It looked as if the ball probably touched the ground from that view.

I didn't see the ball clearly touching the ground though.

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Post by wolfball Sat 19 Nov 2016, 6:28 pm

The barret try is a try in my view. The NZ focus on neck rolls and high tackles is really an issue. If more players are stretchered off it doesnt seem accidental anymore, it will be seen as deliberate tactics.

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Post by Guest Sat 19 Nov 2016, 6:29 pm

Taylorman wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:"Can you see a clear grounding?"

"I can see a clear grounding."

Blatant, blatant lie! There was nothing clear about that.

What part of the first view of the grounding can you not see the ball touching the ground Rory?

You cant though if it is its in the shadows of it all

Well my TVs pretty good. Ball, grass, no shadows. Clear grounding.
10-2 penalty count to Ireland. Hmm.

You must have some eyes, Taylorman. Where they good enough to see the no arms tackles?

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Post by marty2086 Sat 19 Nov 2016, 6:29 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:"Can you see a clear grounding?"

"I can see a clear grounding."

Blatant, blatant lie! There was nothing clear about that.

What part of the first view of the grounding can you not see the ball touching the ground Rory?

Eh...the whole part? There were arms in the way from what I could see on my screen. It looked as if the ball probably touched the ground from that view.

I didn't see the ball clearly touching the ground though.

And thats it the question was can you see a clear grounding and the TMO lied

Even the ref didnt believe him

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Ireland v New Zealand, 19 November - Page 4 Empty Re: Ireland v New Zealand, 19 November

Post by marty2086 Sat 19 Nov 2016, 6:30 pm

wolfball wrote:The barret try is a try in my view. The NZ focus on neck rolls and high tackles is really an issue. If more players are stretchered off it doesnt seem accidental anymore, it will be seen as deliberate tactics.

Its a clear tactic, they are trying to hurt the Irish players maybe not injure them but rock them and make it hard to hold out for 80mins

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Post by Taylorman Sat 19 Nov 2016, 6:32 pm

Munchkin wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:"Can you see a clear grounding?"

"I can see a clear grounding."

Blatant, blatant lie! There was nothing clear about that.

What part of the first view of the grounding can you not see the ball touching the ground Rory?

You cant though if it is its in the shadows of it all

Well my TVs pretty good. Ball, grass, no shadows. Clear grounding.
10-2 penalty count to Ireland. Hmm.

You must have some eyes, Taylorman. Where they good enough to see the no arms tackles?

No, just the Irish defence opened up like a can of sardines then the Sexton wrap around the head on Barrett in going in, oh, and the grounding. Which tackles? The Cane one? Arms there I thought. Mind you, with a penalty count of 10-2 perhaps the ref caught a few perhaps?

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Post by clivemcl Sat 19 Nov 2016, 6:33 pm

I believe the ball was clearly visible as grounded, and more than that, I'd suggest that even if it hadnt been, the next step may have been to look at Sextons arm around the neck which was illegal anyway in my view.

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Post by Rory_Gallagher Sat 19 Nov 2016, 6:34 pm

Yeah, the shoulder charges along with the cynical play are frustrating, but everyone knows Peyper is a complete pussycat. NZ are merely being smart. Ireland need to respond with some aggression of their own. The props are certainly doing that.


Last edited by Rory_Gallagher on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 6:36 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by profitius Sat 19 Nov 2016, 6:34 pm

Should have gone for the try instead of taking the second kick. Poor decision imo. Scrum advantage and a man advantage


Barrett superb!
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