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Ward vs Kovalev - Who've you got?

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Post by Rowley on Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:03 pm

First topic message reminder :

I can’t let a fight as big as this weekend pass without a thread asking for folks thoughts. For me this is one of those odd fights that I am looking forward to enormously but suspect might well fail to ignite. I suspect intriguing rather than exciting may accurately describe it. Got to say since this has been announced I have been picking Ward. I rate both of them highly but just think Ward is a special talent, a lot more rounded and like Mayweather one with an exceptional ability to shut opponents down and neutralise them.
 
That being said Kovalev is no underdog or no hoper, this is a genuinely close fight, and one in which you can make an argument either way. Whilst people rightly wax lyrical about Kovalev’s power his boxing ability should not be underplayed, few since Jones have solved the numerous riddles Hopkins poses so effectively. Also he is a natural big hitting light heavy, something Ward has never faced, whilst his defence has always looked solid at super middle he is not completely unhittable. Froch had his moments where he was able to land, so one would assume Sergey will be able to do likewise. How Ward stands up to that is one of the big questions in this one.
 
Also whilst Ward is hardly an old man his career post Super six has had more stops and starts than me attempting to run a marathon. Being in the ring with Kovalev would not be a place I would want to be blowing off a dose of ring rust. Despite that, I still think Ward will be victorious, he is smart at tying up/holding on the inside and fast enough that he will score with plenty when the fight is at range. If the ref is pretty easy going when it comes to his holding inside, and thus far he has tended to get away with it, I think he will secure the win on points.
 
All of this almost certainly guarantees you can put your house on Kovalev, but irrespective of the outcome I cannot wait for this fight. A genuine talent moving up to take on the best the division above him has to offer, this is the sort of fight the sport needs more of.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:48 pm

Ward 4/6...Kovo 5/4..

Basically pickem

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Post by hazharrison on Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:06 am

Atila wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:Time to get over it Dylan, Ward won fair and square.
He won that's true. Don't know about the fair and square part.

Exactly. He got a gift.

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Post by Derbymanc on Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:07 am

Was it balls a gift, it was a tough hard to split fight. The fact that people are trying to hold this up as some sort of robbery is a bit of a joke (and yeah i'm saying the same to anyone that thinks (although you gotta be stoopid as well) that Ward won easily

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Post by hazharrison on Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:28 pm

It was a tough, hard fight to split - yet it was a 75-25 split for Kovalev. I thought Kovalev was shafted. And I'm not one to cry robbery when there's a close fight.

Had Ward fought the fight Kovalev fought, everyone would be licking his balls on here.

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Post by AdamT on Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:54 am

It wasn't a robbery Haz. If it were, there would be near 100 % saying Kov won.

Bradley vs Manny was a robbery. Kov dominated early rounds, but Ward edged most latter rounds. It was a close fight and anyone saying any different either doesn't know what's going on during a fight, or they have an agenda.

I have no problem with people thinking Kov won (more have), but saying the fight wasn't close is ridiculous.

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Post by Derbymanc on Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:28 am

It was a tough hard fight against a fighter that everyone seemingly loves (Kov) against a prat of the highest order (Ward) (he's not really a prat but i don't like him) so your gonna have a split like that especially with fans as most can't put feelings aside when dealing with close fights.

Nowhere near a robbery and if the fighters were reversed we would have had Kov win and i'm sure nobody would be arguing against that.


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Post by AdamT on Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:42 am

Yeah I think many wanted Kov to win, so they were leaning to that side. If you like a fighter and the fight is close, you tend to give them the benefit of the doubt.

If Kov won, it was by no more than a point or two. Close, close fight and I'm not sure who wins the rematch. I'm thinking Ward, but Kovalev is a good boxer and very strong.

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Post by Atila on Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:23 pm

So AdamT. seeing as how Ward won, the judges wanted him to win and leaned towards him, and they gave him the benefit of the doubt?

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Post by AdamT on Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:26 pm

You all hate Ward and it is probably how you score the fight. Hopefully Ward will fight better (I think he will) and shut some guys up. It was a close fight and if you guys can't see that, then maybe try watching WWE or something.

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Post by Derbymanc on Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:28 pm

Yup Atila, that's more than likely exactly it, although they're paid to judge from an impartial position, a fan sitting at home judging is more likely to pick the boxer he likes especially in close rounds (note I said more likely, not 100 percent definate)

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Post by Atila on Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:34 pm

Don't really care for either Kovalev or Ward that much. I scored the fight as. I saw it and thought. Kov won 115-111. But according to you, I only scored it that way because I dislike Ward and like Kov.

It's not possible that some people legitimately think that Kov won a clear decision?

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Post by AdamT on Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:35 pm

I'm sure it's possible, but shouting robbery is frankly a bit embarrassing.

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Post by Derbymanc on Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:41 pm

Of course it's possible, in a close fight like that that some have it legitimately for Ward and Legit for Kov, people trying to call it as some sort of robbery though are absolutely banana's imo.

A cracking fight and i'm looking forward to no.2

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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:28 pm

We're not doing this again are we?

Robbery is such an over-used term, whenever one of our favourites loses a tight one we cry "robbery!". Silly. Kov-Ward 1 was a tight fight with several rounds that were not easy to score. Boxing scoring is itself a rather subjective exercise, and judges don't have the "benfit" of replays the way we do. I felt Kovalev deserved the nod, I scored it to him by a point IIRC, and the feeling I got was that I was giving more of the tight rounds to Ward: my belief is that to score the fight to Ward you had to give him (nearly) all the tight rounds, but that's certainly possible, particularly if you're scoring properly, i.e. round by round, rather than going "I gave X the previous tight round, so this one I'll give Y", or just siding with the momentum of the fight. I do wonder about having neutral judges though; surely with all the controversy around any tight decision you would at least remove some of the accusations of bias by having neutral judges for all fights.

Could those who are claiming robbery point out which 7 rounds they think Kovalev won clearly? Genuine question since for me there were only about 7 (maybe 8) clear rounds in the whole fight that I remember.

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Post by hazharrison on Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:34 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:We're not doing this again are we?

Robbery is such an over-used term, whenever one of our favourites loses a tight one we cry "robbery!". Silly. Kov-Ward 1 was a tight fight with several rounds that were not easy to score. Boxing scoring is itself a rather subjective exercise, and judges don't have the "benfit" of replays the way we do. I felt Kovalev deserved the nod, I scored it to him by a point IIRC, and the feeling I got was that I was giving more of the tight rounds to Ward: my belief is that to score the fight to Ward you had to give him (nearly) all the tight rounds, but that's certainly possible, particularly if you're scoring properly, i.e. round by round, rather than going "I gave X the previous tight round, so this one I'll give Y", or just siding with the momentum of the fight. I do wonder about having neutral judges though; surely with all the controversy around any tight decision you would at least remove some of the accusations of bias by having neutral judges for all fights.

Could those who are claiming robbery point out which 7 rounds they think Kovalev won clearly? Genuine question since for me there were only about 7 (maybe 8) clear rounds in the whole fight that I remember.

I had Kovalev 6-1 up after 7 (or 5-1 after 6) with a knockdown (from memory). He clearly won the 10th and I gave him the last (I think). He didn't win by a mile but it's possible to score a fight 8-4 or 7-5 clearly one way. Every single fight these days generates "it could have gone either way" comments from fans. This wasn't one of those.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:43 pm

hazharrison wrote:
Mad for Chelsea wrote:We're not doing this again are we?

Robbery is such an over-used term, whenever one of our favourites loses a tight one we cry "robbery!". Silly. Kov-Ward 1 was a tight fight with several rounds that were not easy to score. Boxing scoring is itself a rather subjective exercise, and judges don't have the "benfit" of replays the way we do. I felt Kovalev deserved the nod, I scored it to him by a point IIRC, and the feeling I got was that I was giving more of the tight rounds to Ward: my belief is that to score the fight to Ward you had to give him (nearly) all the tight rounds, but that's certainly possible, particularly if you're scoring properly, i.e. round by round, rather than going "I gave X the previous tight round, so this one I'll give Y", or just siding with the momentum of the fight. I do wonder about having neutral judges though; surely with all the controversy around any tight decision you would at least remove some of the accusations of bias by having neutral judges for all fights.

Could those who are claiming robbery point out which 7 rounds they think Kovalev won clearly? Genuine question since for me there were only about 7 (maybe 8) clear rounds in the whole fight that I remember.

I had Kovalev 6-1 up after 7 (or 5-1 after 6) with a knockdown (from memory). He clearly won the 10th and I gave him the last (I think). He didn't win by a mile but it's possible to score a fight 8-4 or 7-5 clearly one way. Every single fight these days generates "it could have gone either way" comments from fans. This wasn't one of those.

Agree with the latter premise. Wasn't there a fight with Burns not too long ago which was ludicrously scored a draw, despite his opponent taking 7 rounds clearly in most sensible people's views? We got comments like "well you could conceivably give Burns these five rounds, so to take a draw he only needs one more". True, but no way he could have been judged to have won any of the remaining 7 IMO.

However, I don't think this fight was one of these. For me this was genuinely a fight you could score either way, though once again I feel to score it to Ward requires you to give him nearly all the tight rounds. The last round was definitely not a clear round IMO (I scored it to Ward, but it was a tight one), and I wonder if you've been a bit guilty of the "momentum" factor in scoring the first half so decisively to Kovalev.

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Post by hazharrison on Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:44 pm

Just watching it back:

1. Clearly Kovalev 10-9
2. Ditto with a KD 20-17
3. Closer but Kovalev nicked it 30-26
4. Clear Kovalev round 40-35

At this stage, judges had it: 40-35, 40-35 and 40-36. Lederman had it 40-35. Safe to say, we're all on the same page thus far.

5. Close round. Tough to split them. Fair thing to do is score it even. 50-45.
6. Close but clear for Kovalev. 60-54.

At this stage, judges had it: 59-54, 59-54 and 58-55. Lederman had it 59-54. Safe to say, we're still on the same page (and it hasn't been difficult to score these rounds).

7. Ward nicks it with some good jabbing early 69-64.
8. Ward's best round so far. Wrestling and landing body shots 78-74
9. Ward nicks it. Kovalev sloppy. 87-84.

At this point, judges have it 86-84, 86-84 and 85-85. Lederman has it 87-83.

10. Clear Kovalev round - one of his best. 97-93
11. Tough to split them. Maybe Ward 106-103
12. Kovalev close. Hurts Ward to the body. 116-112.

Clear win for Kovalev.

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Post by Atila on Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:11 pm

Atila wrote:Don't really care for either Kovalev or Ward that much. I scored the fight as. I saw it and thought. Kov won 115-111. But according to you, I only scored it that way because I dislike Ward and like Kov.

It's not possible that some people legitimately think that Kov won a clear decision?
Sorry, I made a mistake with my scoring. I had the fight 115-112, that's 7 rounds to 5 with Ward losing a point due to the knock down.

Like I said, I don't care for either of them much but I certainly hope Kov wins the rematch. Hate for him to lose (even if this time it's legitimate) just for Ward fans to say "I told you Ward was better". Very Happy

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Post by AdamT on Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:12 pm

Haz you scored Maidana over Floyd. Ward won round 3,6,7,8,9,11,12.

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Post by hazharrison on Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:32 pm

AdamT wrote:Haz you scored Maidana over Floyd. Ward won round 3,6,7,8,9,11,12.

You're a massive Ward fan and you've looked for rounds to give Ward. You'd have to be incredibly generous to give him rounds 3, 6 and 12.

There's absolutely no way you could score for Ward - unless you were looking to. Kovalev was a clear winner (at least 115-112).

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Post by hazharrison on Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:34 pm

Atila wrote:
Atila wrote:Don't really care for either Kovalev or Ward that much. I scored the fight as. I saw it and thought. Kov won 115-111. But according to you, I only scored it that way because I dislike Ward and like Kov.

It's not possible that some people legitimately think that Kov won a clear decision?
Sorry, I made a mistake with my scoring. I had the fight 115-112, that's 7 rounds to 5 with Ward losing a point due to the knock down.

Like I said, I don't care for either of them much but I certainly hope Kov wins the rematch. Hate for him to lose (even if this time it's legitimate) just for Ward fans to say "I told you Ward was better". Very Happy

I'm amazed Ward has fans. I don't dislike him but there's not a lot to him (personality wise). He's dull as a fighter, too.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:41 pm

Ward won get over it.

How obnoxious can you be to think your opinion is the only valid one, Kovalev fans need to get a grip.

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Post by mobilemaster8 on Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:51 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Ward won get over it.

How obnoxious can you be to think your opinion is the only valid one, Kovalev fans need to get a grip.

The only problem Hammer is that the scoring/result on this was blasted by not just Kovalev fans, but reputable coaches, commentary, broadcast stations, websites. Hell, I have even seen clips all over the place from Ward fans stating it was a little bit of a gift.

We have the rematch which is all that counts. Will Kov push to close it out more emphatically, or will Ward now simply adjust and use his ability.

Id say the latter on this one.

The fact Kov looks soooo pumped up now saying he is going to flatten him...may fall into Wards hands.

Would like Kov to win, but Ward underestimated him in the fight, and he should have lost.

He wont make the same mistake twice.

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Post by catchweight on Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:42 pm

Kovalev deserved the decision in that fight. A close fight can still produce a clear winner.

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Post by milkyboy on Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:43 pm

hazharrison wrote:Just watching it back:

1. Clearly Kovalev 10-9
2. Ditto with a KD 20-17
3. Closer but Kovalev nicked it 30-26
4. Clear Kovalev round 40-35

At this stage, judges had it: 40-35, 40-35 and 40-36. Lederman had it 40-35. Safe to say, we're all on the same page thus far.

5. Close round. Tough to split them. Fair thing to do is score it even. 50-45.
6. Close but clear for Kovalev. 60-54.

At this stage, judges had it: 59-54, 59-54 and 58-55. Lederman had it 59-54. Safe to say, we're still on the same page (and it hasn't been difficult to score these rounds).

7. Ward nicks it with some good jabbing early 69-64.
8. Ward's best round so far. Wrestling and landing body shots 78-74
9. Ward nicks it. Kovalev sloppy. 87-84.

At this point, judges have it 86-84, 86-84 and 85-85. Lederman has it 87-83.

10. Clear Kovalev round - one of his best. 97-93
11. Tough to split them. Maybe Ward 106-103
12. Kovalev close. Hurts Ward to the body. 116-112.

Clear win for Kovalev.

Ward outlanded kovalev narrowly in 3rd and 5th. 12th could have gone either way. That turns your card into a Ward win without being bent or ignorant.

I thought kov deserved the win, I scored it narrowly for him. You have to give the tight rounds to Ward to give it to him, but in boxing terms that's not a robbery, it's a hard luck story.

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Post by milkyboy on Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:45 pm

I'm amazed no one has picked up on the obvious yet... outragous of Ward to take this fight... the lengths the guy will go to duck golovkin.

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Post by BoxingFan88 on Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:06 pm

milkyboy wrote:I'm amazed no one has picked up on the obvious yet... outragous of Ward to take this fight... the lengths the guy will go to duck golovkin.

I've told every single person on here, Ward had no desire to fight GGG at 168

BECAUSE HE CAN'T MAKE THE WEIGHT ANYMORE

So lets stop with this nonsense about them ducking each other, they just missed each other

He said that he can't make 168 ages ago

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:09 pm

Golovkin could move up but he seems to lack the testicular fortitude to do so.

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Post by Atila on Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:12 pm

BoxingFan88 wrote:
milkyboy wrote:I'm amazed no one has picked up on the obvious yet... outragous of Ward to take this fight... the lengths the guy will go to duck golovkin.

I've told every single person on here, Ward had no desire to fight GGG at 168

BECAUSE HE CAN'T MAKE THE WEIGHT ANYMORE

So lets stop with this nonsense about them ducking each other, they just missed each other

He said that he can't make 168 ages ago
Nah, it's definitely a duck to me. Didn't Ward once offer to fight Floyd at 160lb? I'm sure I remember reading something about that.

If he was able to make 160 then he could definitely make 168lb.Very Happy

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Post by BoxingFan88 on Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:23 pm

Atila wrote:
BoxingFan88 wrote:
milkyboy wrote:I'm amazed no one has picked up on the obvious yet... outragous of Ward to take this fight... the lengths the guy will go to duck golovkin.

I've told every single person on here, Ward had no desire to fight GGG at 168

BECAUSE HE CAN'T MAKE THE WEIGHT ANYMORE

So lets stop with this nonsense about them ducking each other, they just missed each other

He said that he can't make 168 ages ago
Nah, it's definitely a duck to me. Didn't Ward once offer to fight Floyd at 160lb? I'm sure I remember reading something about that.

If he was able to make 160 then he could definitely make 168lb.Very Happy  

LOL

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Post by milkyboy on Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:38 pm

BoxingFan88 wrote:
milkyboy wrote:I'm amazed no one has picked up on the obvious yet... outragous of Ward to take this fight... the lengths the guy will go to duck golovkin.

I've told every single person on here, Ward had no desire to fight GGG at 168

BECAUSE HE CAN'T MAKE THE WEIGHT ANYMORE

So lets stop with this nonsense about them ducking each other, they just missed each other

He said that he can't make 168 ages ago

Your irony radar switched off tonight BF?

Although you telling every single person on here that Ward couldn't make the weight, doesn't make it true, it just makes it an opinion... that a glance through this thread would remind you was hardly proven fella.


Last edited by milkyboy on Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:41 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by milkyboy on Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:41 pm

Atila wrote:
BoxingFan88 wrote:
milkyboy wrote:I'm amazed no one has picked up on the obvious yet... outragous of Ward to take this fight... the lengths the guy will go to duck golovkin.

I've told every single person on here, Ward had no desire to fight GGG at 168

BECAUSE HE CAN'T MAKE THE WEIGHT ANYMORE

So lets stop with this nonsense about them ducking each other, they just missed each other

He said that he can't make 168 ages ago
Nah, it's definitely a duck to me. Didn't Ward once offer to fight Floyd at 160lb? I'm sure I remember reading something about that.

If he was able to make 160 then he could definitely make 168lb.Very Happy  

Going down to 160 wouldn't help him get the Floyd fight... Floyd would be too busy fighting golovkin at 154.

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Post by hazharrison on Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:14 am

milkyboy wrote:
hazharrison wrote:Just watching it back:

1. Clearly Kovalev 10-9
2. Ditto with a KD 20-17
3. Closer but Kovalev nicked it 30-26
4. Clear Kovalev round 40-35

At this stage, judges had it: 40-35, 40-35 and 40-36. Lederman had it 40-35. Safe to say, we're all on the same page thus far.

5. Close round. Tough to split them. Fair thing to do is score it even. 50-45.
6. Close but clear for Kovalev. 60-54.

At this stage, judges had it: 59-54, 59-54 and 58-55. Lederman had it 59-54. Safe to say, we're still on the same page (and it hasn't been difficult to score these rounds).

7. Ward nicks it with some good jabbing early 69-64.
8. Ward's best round so far. Wrestling and landing body shots 78-74
9. Ward nicks it. Kovalev sloppy. 87-84.

At this point, judges have it 86-84, 86-84 and 85-85. Lederman has it 87-83.

10. Clear Kovalev round - one of his best. 97-93
11. Tough to split them. Maybe Ward 106-103
12. Kovalev close. Hurts Ward to the body. 116-112.

Clear win for Kovalev.

Ward outlanded kovalev narrowly in 3rd and 5th.  12th could have gone either way. That turns your card into a Ward win without being bent or ignorant.

I thought kov deserved the win, I scored it narrowly for him. You have to give the tight rounds to Ward to give it to him, but in boxing terms that's not a robbery, it's a hard luck story.

Yep, you'd have to GIVE Ward those rounds, though, because he didn't win them (certainly didn't win rounds 3 and 5). He barely won the rounds I gave him and was generally poor throughout (for his standards).

Watching it back, Kovalev just needs to be fitter and needs to cut the ring off a bit better to win more clearly this time.

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Post by hazharrison on Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:22 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Ward won get over it.

How obnoxious can you be to think your opinion is the only valid one, Kovalev fans need to get a grip.

My opinion was the consensus view. Ward was very lucky but no-one is dying in a ditch over it. It just goes down as another poor decision in boxing's long history of inept scoring.

I've never seen you consider anyone else's view on anything in all the time you've blighted these boards. So, stones and glass houses and all that.


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Post by hazharrison on Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:23 am

milkyboy wrote:
hazharrison wrote:Just watching it back:

1. Clearly Kovalev 10-9
2. Ditto with a KD 20-17
3. Closer but Kovalev nicked it 30-26
4. Clear Kovalev round 40-35

At this stage, judges had it: 40-35, 40-35 and 40-36. Lederman had it 40-35. Safe to say, we're all on the same page thus far.

5. Close round. Tough to split them. Fair thing to do is score it even. 50-45.
6. Close but clear for Kovalev. 60-54.

At this stage, judges had it: 59-54, 59-54 and 58-55. Lederman had it 59-54. Safe to say, we're still on the same page (and it hasn't been difficult to score these rounds).

7. Ward nicks it with some good jabbing early 69-64.
8. Ward's best round so far. Wrestling and landing body shots 78-74
9. Ward nicks it. Kovalev sloppy. 87-84.

At this point, judges have it 86-84, 86-84 and 85-85. Lederman has it 87-83.

10. Clear Kovalev round - one of his best. 97-93
11. Tough to split them. Maybe Ward 106-103
12. Kovalev close. Hurts Ward to the body. 116-112.

Clear win for Kovalev.

Ward outlanded kovalev narrowly in 3rd and 5th.  12th could have gone either way. That turns your card into a Ward win without being bent or ignorant.

I thought kov deserved the win, I scored it narrowly for him. You have to give the tight rounds to Ward to give it to him, but in boxing terms that's not a robbery, it's a hard luck story.

Ward "outlanded" Kovalev 5-4 and 8-7 in rounds 3 and 5 according to Compubox. Kovalev "outlanded" Ward 13-12 in the last. So even if you used this bizarre system to score the fight, you still couldn't find a win for Ward.

In reality, Ward landed a couple of decent, single jabs in the 3rd - a round where Kovalev was on the front foot and was slightly more active.

If you're going to give the 5th to anyone, it would be Kovalev (I was being kind to Ward - see, it's catching!).

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Post by Derbymanc on Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:30 am

And I gave Ward the fight by a point, means i must be right cause you know my opinions are the best etc etc etc etc.

No need for a rematch now at all, lets move on to Ward vs Stevenson to see who really is THE man

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Post by mobilemaster8 on Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:57 am

Derbymanc wrote:And I gave Ward the fight by a point, means i must be right cause you know my opinions are the best etc etc etc etc.

No need for a rematch now at all, lets move on to Ward vs Stevenson to see who really is THE man

Is Stevenson actually alive?

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Post by Derbymanc on Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:36 am

yeah, he's the top dog of boxing, cause you know opinions and stuff ;-)

Honestly i was wondering what he'd been up to myself, maybe he's done a Smith special and just been fighting in local gyms :-)

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Post by AdamT on Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:21 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Golovkin could move up but he seems to lack the testicular fortitude to do so.

Sadly GGG will fight can's until he surpasses Hopkins record. In the mean time, everyone from 147-175 is ducking him!

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Post by mobilemaster8 on Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:26 pm

AdamT wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:Golovkin could move up but he seems to lack the testicular fortitude to do so.

Sadly GGG will fight  can's until he surpasses Hopkins record. In the mean time, everyone from 147-175 is ducking him!

Alvarez in particular.

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Post by BoxingFan88 on Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:40 pm

milkyboy wrote:
BoxingFan88 wrote:
milkyboy wrote:I'm amazed no one has picked up on the obvious yet... outragous of Ward to take this fight... the lengths the guy will go to duck golovkin.

I've told every single person on here, Ward had no desire to fight GGG at 168

BECAUSE HE CAN'T MAKE THE WEIGHT ANYMORE

So lets stop with this nonsense about them ducking each other, they just missed each other

He said that he can't make 168 ages ago

Your irony radar switched off tonight BF?

Although you telling every single person on here that Ward couldn't make the weight, doesn't make it true, it just makes it an opinion... that a glance through this thread would remind you was hardly proven fella.

Umm hang on a minute

If Andre Ward himself says he can't make the weight, that's a fact not an opinion

"He said that he can't make 168 ages ago"

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Post by milkyboy on Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:52 pm

jeez BF. I don't know whether you have selective memory loss or only choose to read the posts/articles that support your opinion, but go back to page 17 of this thread, where this whole saga was debated at length.

We're still waiting for Dylan to get off the magic roundabout and produce his video of hunter saying ward couldn't make 168... all i could find was hunter saying ward only went to 175 because HBO implied there were no meaningful fights left for him at 168.

No-one has produced evidence of ward or his camp saying he couldn't have made 168 at the time this fight was proposed. Or if he/they did, show us the facts.

Or alternatively wait a month, and repeat the same old same old and hope I can't be bothered to pull you up on it again. Very Happy

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Post by AdamT on Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:06 pm

Ward moved up to avoid GGG lol!! or at least some seem to be implying that.

Thankfully some fighters , when they see have no great challenge at their weight, decide to move up and test themselves.

Thank heavens for ambitious fighters. Ward isn't always easy on the eye and many don't like him personally. But it's admirable, that a guy is willing to step up and face dangerous challenges. Hate seeing guys treading water and hanging about a dead division. Wlad got stick for his opposition, but he didn't have no where else to go.

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Post by hazharrison on Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:58 pm

AdamT wrote:Ward moved up to avoid GGG lol!! or at least some seem to be implying that.

Thankfully some fighters , when they see have no great challenge at their weight, decide to move up and test themselves.

Thank heavens for ambitious fighters. Ward isn't always easy on the eye and many don't like him personally. But it's admirable, that a guy is willing to step up and face dangerous challenges. Hate seeing guys treading water and hanging about a dead division. Wlad got stick for his opposition, but he didn't have no where else to go.

Ward got the chance to clean up 168. He outgrew the division while he was sat in the garage. His most lucrative options were at '75.

If Golovkin moved to '68, who is there to fight better and more lucrative than Alvarez? The idea a fighter has to move up in weight is yet another modern fixation that, generally, waters down a fighter's resume. Did Frampton move up to seek a bigger challenge than Rigondeaux - or was it because he could make more money?


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Post by Atila on Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:50 pm

AdamT wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:Golovkin could move up but he seems to lack the testicular fortitude to do so.

Sadly GGG will fight  can's until he surpasses Hopkins record. In the mean time, everyone from 147-175 is ducking him!
I'm sure that GGG will move up when he's good and ready. Most likely, he won't move up until he's fought Canelo.

As for fighting cans, he's just following the Hopkins blueprint. Hopkins title defences were against fighters similar to GGG's, maybe in some cases even worse and he didn't move up to light heavy until he was 41. GGG is 35. So you'll have to cut GGG some slack for another 6 years.

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Post by catchweight on Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:57 pm

And he only moved up when Taylor ousted him out of the division

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Post by hazharrison on Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:18 pm

Steady lads, Hopkins is the The Holy Spirit of boxing's recent Trinity of dull. Hopkins, Ward and Mayweather are Gods among men on here. Hence the fact Golovkin is public enemy number one.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:21 pm

You got it Haz, those three deserve the praise for challenging themselves unlike GGG thus far; i'm sure there's a few more Dominic Wades for him to knock over.

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Post by Atila on Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:30 pm

I'll forgive GGG for fighting Dominic Wade as he's only fought him once. How many times did Hopkins fight Robert Allen...3 times I think? 3 title defences against the same man. That's got to be some type of record.

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Post by catchweight on Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:41 pm

I remember the big challenge for Hopkins when he was in the midst of his middleweight reign was moving up to light heavyweight to fight Roy Jones. He demanded a catchweight and a 50/50 split before opting to fight Allen a tenth time.

He left middleweight when he had no alternative. Lost all his titles to Taylor twice in a couple of stinkers.

Fair play to him for his career and what he made of it. But so ironic seeing the re-invention of his career and motives. He did the same thing as Golovkin. Stuck around in the division he was comfortable in until finally the big fights arrived. Left as a last resort when there was nothing else in the division for him. Fortunately for Hopkins, de la Hoya and Trinidad were willing to have a go. Golovkin hasnt been so fortunate (still time).

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