PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside: Notes from the Ballwasher

First topic message reminder :

1).That's where we are this week, for the second week running after Mayakoba's beachside beauty - which is no way to describe winner Pat Perez. Quite the return from injury for Perez, long regarded as one of the Tour's premier "ball strikers" - if he was anywhere close as good between the ears as he is with his irons, he'd win five times a year, said Johnny Miller, or words to that effect anyway. Almost a shame he won as his combustible self-destruction act is quite something to behold.
And he's the third Mayakoba winner in a row to break a victory drought following Charley Hoffman and Graeme McDowell.

2).We travel this week to the Golden Isles of Georgia and the two courses that make up the venue for the RSM (formerly McGladrey) Classic. 18 holes each at the Plantation Course and Seaside Course, then 36 weekend holes at Seaside - a Harry Colt design originally, and a beautiful setting which will be graced by equally beautiful weather. These "Isles" are popular destinations for Tour players to live and practice, led by Davis Love and joined by Kuchar, Zach Johnson and several others.

3).A lot has happened in the past ten days. Obviously.
We all know the Ugly (not to say vulgar, racist, misogynistic, isolationist) which evolved into the Bad (very bad, tremendously bad), and was roundly welcomed by Pros from all US Tours and broadcast booths.
But there's been some good as well, in the world of Golf at least.

4).With impeccable timing, the Rolex Series for the European Tour was introduced, with the promise of at least one more tournament (France?) to be added to the seven already announced. Not sure we know all the details yet, and the ramifications for PGA Tour members (including South Africans) have yet to be established, but this can't be anything other than terrific news for the E.T.

5).Don't know whether this is good or what, but the reformatting of the Zurich Classic in New Orleans next April seems to beg more questions than it answers, not least any rationale surrounding owgr points (it seems none will be awarded) and how they're going to fill the field. And at a venue, New Orleans, that often experiences an untimely monsoon season to coincide with the tournament, how are they going to manage 160 golfers playing four-balls on the Friday?

6).Meanwhile, the LPGA seems interested in acquiring the Ladies European Tour and using it as feeder for its own Tour. Not sure how that will go down.

7).More positive news for European Seniors is that its new "Head" man, Dave McLaren, is laying out plans to increase the number of tournaments and raise prize money, hopefully within a couple of years. Don't expect Europe's Seniors to reach the kind of wealth that Bernhard Langer has achieved on the Champions Tour (almost $21M and counting), but anything to achieve stability would be welcomed. Meanwhile, the likes of Barry Lane and Van der Velde are competing here in Champions Tour Q-School (both leading in their respective venues after Round 1), hoping to join the likes of Langer, Montgomerie, Mechanic, Broadhurst, Woosie, Lyle and, when he feels fit to compete, Olazabal.

8).This time last year, Graeme McDowell travelled to the Seaside with a Mayakoba win under his belt and proceeded to finish third. Strange, then, that's he's not in this week's field, especially disappointing after three superb rounds last week. Luke Donald will be playing, trying to emerge from the wreckage of his career - a couple of runner-up finishes last year but nothing to suggest he'll be back at the top anytime soon. But these courses might suit him.

9).It's a sad commentary on the state of Australian Golf that last year's Aussie Open Champ, Matt Jones, is playing the RSM/McGladrey rather than defending his title. Admittedly he needs all the starts he can get after mysteriously taking last season just easy enough that he narrowly lost his card, but really . . . . . . . .

10).No PGA Tour action next week, even though Thanksgiving has been postponed in most US homes for four years. There IS a World Cup in Australia, plus Champions Tour and web.com Q-Schools in the next three weeks, but the Ballwasher is pretty clogged up with fallen leaves and season-ending debris, so only sporadic musings until January. Merry Christmas!

Still a four-man play-off, allegedly beginning @ 8.00 a.m.
It's going to be PFC (by Georgia standards) at that time, 42F according to the Weather Channel. Balmy for us in the North Country but it'll affect the players and their ball flight down there on the Golden Isles. Does that suit Norlander or Hughes? Will Barber & Villegas adjust??

robopz wrote:

super_realist wrote:

robopz wrote:Sweet... Jordan Spieth grinds out a gut check win in Australian Open. ...

If most players had won this, the likes of Mac would be quick to point out how weak the field is, if it's Gordon Spieth though, it's a superb win.

Don't know about Mac... but while I'm certainly a Spieth fan, I would like to think I'm objective enough I would have said the same thing about anybody winning the same way.... but admittedly, I probably wouldn't have stayed up that late to know how the winner won if it weren't for Spieth in the field... :-)

I wasn't having a go at you Robo, just that down under wins by anyone are usually couched with a disclaimer about the field quality, and Mac has certainly ridiculed Poulter in the past for winning this event (or another Aussie one) based on the coefficient.

Wonder how Spieth squares working on a Sunday? Should we stone him to death?

super_realist wrote:
Wonder how Spieth squares working on a Sunday? Should we stone him to death?

I'm sure he practices self-flagellation. So have him play a round with Kevin Na.

super_realist wrote: Mac has certainly ridiculed Poulter in the past for winning this event (or another Aussie one) based on the coefficient.

Not sure I have specifically had a go at Aussie events but I have questioned Poulters hype vs his actual achievements.

For sure the Aussie Open was awarded more points than its SOF justified. In fact the Dunlop Open had higher SOF but was rewarded fewer points.

And then there were four.
Hughes, Barber, Norlander and Camilo "warming" up in 40F temps getting ready fpr play-off action in a few minutes. Still can't get over Billy Horschel's missed tiddler last evening.

That moustache does it for me.

Oh Canada!

Hughes going where Hadwin, Hearn and DeLaet have come up short. No fluke this, he looks the real thing.

Difference between winner's take and 4-way tie for T2 is almost $700K. So near and yet so far.

DeLaet would probably have multiple wins if he had anything like the short game Hughes exhibited this week.

Canada is going nuts with the Mackenzie win. He is the highest ranked Canadian at about #110 in the OWGR and about 26th in the Prez Cup standings.

Good that Mackenzie graduated from the Mackenzie Tour, just in time for the McKenzie Brothers' Twelve Days of Christmas, eh? Ooh, and a beer.

super_realist wrote:A spike mark is damage to the green too, why is a pitchmark any different to a spike mark?

Because you can't guarantee what you think is a spike mark, is a spike mark and therefore artificial. A pitch mark is clear....apparently. Same issue with your ball being in a divot on the fairway - you can't always tell it's actually a divot.

The question would be, so what. If there's a blatant imperfection in the green, why not just be allowed to repair it? It's not like it would take all day, you're never likely to have more than one or two in your line, so I really don't see the problem if "time" is the supposed reason.
Why not be given the opportunity to repair a spike mark or any other mark? Why would the governing body seek to put you at a disadvantage? You could reduce the rule book by several by just changing this rule.

I'd never clipe on someone who repaired it. I wouldn't care.

I know what you mean, but that's the way it is. You'd have to do as you suggest (i.e. allow repair of anything) otherwise it'd never work. TBH, I don't think many imperfections on the green will make a blind bit of difference to 99% of putts and you're as likely to get nudge in on a putt slightly offline as get a nudge offline when it was going in.
In other words, luck will balance out over time. Still, golfers are nothing if they're not good at finding a reason they didn't hole as many putts as they'd have liked.

Think with a spike mark is, you could just give the green a quick wipe of your hand as if you are getting rid of some imaginary sand.

super_realist wrote:I wasn't having a go at you Robo, just that down under wins by anyone are usually couched with a disclaimer about the field quality, and Mac has certainly ridiculed Poulter in the past for winning this event (or another Aussie one) based on the coefficient.

I didn't think you were. In the grand scheme of things this is a nice win for Spieth. Nothing earth shattering, but it's not as easy as some make it out to be to go win against a bunch of locals on their home turf/conditions. But my comments about his specific performance had more to do with the way he gritted it out without much of anything except for his short game putting. IMO lesser players fighting their swing the way Spieth was would have been more likely to pull an "Adam Scott" and just toss it in... you know... like Adam Scott did.

pedro wrote:For sure the Aussie Open was awarded more points than its SOF justified. In fact the Dunlop Open had higher SOF but was rewarded fewer points.

Yeah... welcome to the world of subsidized OWGR flagship points.  This flagship got 8 more points than the "scale" suggests it should have. Could be worse though... Japan Open flagship got 9 extra... Sunshine Flagship South African Open got 11 extra... the Euro Flagship BMW PGA got 18 extra points... the PGA Tour's Players got only 2 extra.

PS... in what looks like a real "slap in the face" to me... Sunshine Tour or OWGR or somebody is pulling "Flagship status" from the South African Open and giving it to the Alfred Dunhill Championship going forward.... Ernie Els can't be too happy about that one.

super_realist wrote:Think with a spike mark is, you could just give the green a quick wipe of your hand as if you are getting rid of some imaginary sand.

You probably could indeed. That comes down to the individual's integrity and conscience then.

Well we're all stuffed then.

Arnold Palmer's younger brother has passed away at age 72

https://twitter.com/GolfChannel/status/801243955425906688

It almost sounds from this article by Doug Ferguson that Jim Furyk might already have been sounded out for RC Captain:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/golf/2016/11/22/if-asked-furyk-would-be-honored-to-be-ryder-cup-captain/94287830/

And perhaps he'd go for it now rather than get lost in a Phil/Tiger shuffle later on?

A bit early for Furyk methink. He's still competitive. Why essentially end his playing career now?

You'd have to be certified insane to give 9C the Captaincy. Surely even America aren't stupid enough to make this a consideration. They'd be reversing all the progress they made in the last Ryder Cup.

super_realist wrote:You'd have to be certified insane to give 9C the Captaincy. Surely even America aren't stupid enough to make this a consideration. They'd be reversing all the progress they made in the last Ryder Cup.

Considering all your comments about the US team prior to the 2016 Matches, why would anyone give your comments any credibility?

In fairness s_r did say the US would win. But in spite of Woods.

Precisely, I was always sure the Americans would win this, they pretty much had to.
I was probably one of the few from this side who thought it and I gave them credit when they did win it too rather than make any excuses.

Any Woods captaincy would only be for purely commercial gain. No right minded person could put someone so divisive, so devoid of spontaneous thought and such an individualist in charge of something requiring to work as a team. It would be like putting a Priest in charge of the kindergarten.

Or a tax-evading racist into the White House.

kwinigolfer wrote:Or a tax-evading racist into the White House.

Yes she did come across as a bit racist by having JLo and JZ addressing certain demographics. Otherwise, as you point out, I would've been more worried about her financial moral.

Clearly a case of "Heads I Win, Tails You Lose" hedging.

If USA wins, SR can claim he was right, but if they lost, he can go ballistic on the "Task Force"

He just can't be wrong.

super_realist wrote:You'd have to be certified insane to give 9C the Captaincy. Surely even America aren't stupid enough to make this a consideration. They'd be reversing all the progress they made in the last Ryder Cup.

Are you talking about the same Tiger who was a popular VC in a winning RC team?

Who says he was popular?

The winning US team?

People that know him well?

Bubba? (relative to him anyway...)

It's a bit like the Band who play at the venue you are at.

"Hello XXXX, this is always our favourite venue"

next night, different place.

"Hello XXXX, this is always our favourite venue"

People say what you want to hear.

kwinigolfer wrote:Or a tax-evading racist into the White House.

Al Sharpton got elected?

super_realist wrote:Who says he was popular?

Pretty clear he's liked and respected by the American side....

Bottom line Super... you can't just click your ruby slippers three times and wish upon a star and make something true that's not.... unless of course you're a Trump supporter...

robopz wrote:.... unless of course you're a Trump supporter... :laughing:

They do hate black people..... ?

robopz wrote:

super_realist wrote:Who says he was popular?

Pretty clear he's liked and respected by the American side....  

Bottom line Super... you can't just click your ruby slippers three times and wish upon a star and make something true that's not.... unless of course you're a Trump supporter...

Being respected means nothing at all for being a Captain. I'm sure people "respected" Faldo, but it didn't look like people wanted to play for him, just as I can't think of anyone wanting to play the individualist, narcissist who doesn't seem to care about the RC and who no one wanted to play with when he was a player.

It's not a case of "wishing" something. You wouldn't find too many people who would think he could be a good captain given how insular and separatist he is. You don't give someone the captaincy just because of who they are, well maybe you do in America or if you're the FA, but most sane people give positions on the basis of what they could bring to the position and 9C would bring nothing but miserable isolationism.
Phil on the other hand, despite an equally appalling record has attributes which would lead him to be a better captain as he understands team games and doesn't give up when things are going badly.

I would have thought South Africa would have had a team in the World Cup.

When Golf Channel showed the leader board during the WC broadcast, they showed the team score, and how many total trokes they accumulated, and NOT how many holes that the teams have completed.

That was a little offputting.

Who are Coetzee & Van Zyl playing for then?

Sith Ifrikka

kwinigolfer wrote:Who are Coetzee & Van Zyl playing for then?

I must have missed them then.

NeverMind.

super_realist wrote:It's not a case of "wishing" something. You wouldn't find too many people who would think he could be a good captain given how insular and separatist he is.

With all due respect I think it is wishful thinking on your part, because your opinion sure doesn't seem to match up with what we hear out of his teammates and Captains with him either a player or VC. All reports from the the real people who actually live it and know seem to indicate he's very involved and the players take to him quite well.

super_realist wrote:You don't give someone the captaincy just because of who they are, well maybe you do in America or if you're the FA, but most sane people give positions on the basis of what they could bring to the position and 9C would bring nothing but miserable isolationism.

Agree you don't give the position just because who you are... his peers seem to disagree with your continued "miserable Isolationism" rants though... and DL3 seemed to be indicating TW was pretty much his chief and most influential strategist among the captaincy. Doesn't sound unqualified to me.

super_realist wrote:Phil on the other hand, despite an equally appalling record has attributes which would lead him to be a better captain as he understands team games and doesn't give up when things are going badly.

I agree to the extent Phil will "probably" make a good captain himself someday... that is if he can find it within himself to make it about the TEAM and not all about himself. But can't say as I've found either Phil or Tiger to be ones prone to "give up when things are going badly". In fact just the opposite.

It's very rare for team-mates to criticise one another, Phil was a rare exception. They usually say what people want to hear and it wouldn't do their careers any good to criticise the "special one" beyond criticism.

9C has such an awful record in the RC team matches that it can't possibly be that he was outplayed every single time he lost. His body language and lack of communication and chemistry with his playing partners was evident many times. He's clearly not a big enough man to put personal feelings out of the way for the sake of the team.

Way too much emphasis on 18 hole match play results

robopz wrote:

super_realist wrote:It's not a case of "wishing" something. You wouldn't find too many people who would think he could be a good captain given how insular and separatist he is.

With all due respect I think it is wishful thinking on your part, because your opinion sure doesn't seem to match up with what we hear out of his teammates and Captains with him either a player or VC about anything.

There.

super_realist wrote:It's very rare for team-mates to criticise one another, Phil was a rare exception. They usually say what people want to hear and it wouldn't do their careers any good to criticise the "special one" beyond criticism.

9C has such an awful record in the RC team matches that it can't possibly be that he was outplayed every single time he lost. His body language and lack of communication and chemistry with his playing partners was evident many times.  He's clearly not a big enough man to put personal feelings out of the way for the sake of the team.

I love the way this works.... when someone criticizes someone you don't like it's the "Gospel" and is taken as an absolute truth.... but if they compliment someone you dislike, then they're just being nice.   Hilarious.

And as someone who claims to be a competitor yourself, I can't even fathom some of the things you say about people "not trying" in Ryder cup. IMO Tiger's body language was the exact same as everyone else who has played Ryder Cup for either side. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM have too much self pride and ego to just mail it in and not give their best effort in every match as long as the Cup is still up for grabs.

Oh... except maybe for your blessed future "super captain" Phil who obviously didn't care when he decided to exit his Titleist contract early to change clubs in the weeks before the '04 Ryder Cup. He couldn't give two sheitts for the team. It was all about him and HIS money.

Are you kidding? 9C often seemed to give far less than the 100% he claimed. So many times he just looked dead and buried and played like he was in a singles match. Not exactly Poulteresque is he?

I didn't say Phil was a Super Captain, I said despite his poor record he had more attributes which would make him a better captain than 9C.

By the way, when is anyone going to lie to say something bad? Golfers like everyone are sycophants, they almost always say what people would expect them to say, that's why interviews are so boring and not worth conducting except for taking everything they say with a huge pinch of salt.

Super: Do you honestly think you are non-biased when you observe Woods.

Robo can attest that I don't like Woods just as much as you do, but what I see from you is a extreme lack of objectivity. I do think Woods has done, in the Ryder Cup, what is best for Woods, rather than what is best for the team.

You put way too emphasis on his team play record. Its 18 hole match play and anything can happen. Your opponents can get hot, your partner can stink, you can get a couple of unlucky bounces.

Sam Torrance had a 7-15-6, yet he was a winning captain.

Your over the top bias against Woods greatly taints your objectivity and credibility.

Of course I'm not non-biased. I hate the bell end and I like seeing him fail.

However, what possible attributes do you think he has which show you he could be a good captain?

I mention his team record as one of the things, I'm not saying that is what it should be decided upon.

I didn't think Faldo would be good either despite his record being far superior to 9C, because he, like Woods is an isolationist, someone who was so much better than his peers and that played primarily for Faldo. Players had respect for Faldo, but I don't think he was especially popular. I don't see 9C as being all that popular either. More intimidating in his day than inspiring.

The best football managers were either not players, or not very good ones. People hold up 9C with his strokeplay record and somehow think that makes him a good candidate for Captaincy, when we can see that he doesn't play well with other people in the white hot atmosphere (compared to the tinpot Presidents Cup). He seems incapable of spontaneous thought (judging by his interviews and handpicked and stage managed press conferences so from what we see, he's not a great communicator either. Can't see him connecting with the bible bashers much from who he seems distant, and seems way too detached through age and injury from the young players.

I simply can't think of a single attribute which would make him a good candidate for the role, other than it would be good for TV figures from the 'Murcans.

super_realist wrote:By the way, when is anyone going to lie to say something bad? Golfers like everyone are sycophants, they almost always say what people would expect them to say, that's why interviews are so boring and not worth conducting except for taking everything they say with a huge pinch of salt.

It's one thing for players to "be polite" when asked... but it's entirely a different thing when they go out of their way to volunteer their compliments like Love, Spieth and Reed did at this year's RC RE Tiger. And just to be clear, sure I'm a Tiger fan... but I criticize him all the time when I think it's warranted. And man does that guy give plenty of legitimate fodder on which to be criticized (and praised). But what's always tickled me is how the "anti" sycophants just can't be satisfied with all the legitimate options on which to criticize him... they have to go out of their way to conjure up even more when IMO none is warranted. The concept that some guy's not giving his all in RC matches is just daft IMO. Their EGO's are just WAY too big for them to allow themselves that in a RC. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY is willing to just mail it in so he can be the guy that cost their team a shot at a RC win. Guys at that level just don't have that kind of thought running around anywhere in their minds... PERIOD.