PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside: Notes from the Ballwasher

First topic message reminder :

1).That's where we are this week, for the second week running after Mayakoba's beachside beauty - which is no way to describe winner Pat Perez. Quite the return from injury for Perez, long regarded as one of the Tour's premier "ball strikers" - if he was anywhere close as good between the ears as he is with his irons, he'd win five times a year, said Johnny Miller, or words to that effect anyway. Almost a shame he won as his combustible self-destruction act is quite something to behold.
And he's the third Mayakoba winner in a row to break a victory drought following Charley Hoffman and Graeme McDowell.

2).We travel this week to the Golden Isles of Georgia and the two courses that make up the venue for the RSM (formerly McGladrey) Classic. 18 holes each at the Plantation Course and Seaside Course, then 36 weekend holes at Seaside - a Harry Colt design originally, and a beautiful setting which will be graced by equally beautiful weather. These "Isles" are popular destinations for Tour players to live and practice, led by Davis Love and joined by Kuchar, Zach Johnson and several others.

3).A lot has happened in the past ten days. Obviously.
We all know the Ugly (not to say vulgar, racist, misogynistic, isolationist) which evolved into the Bad (very bad, tremendously bad), and was roundly welcomed by Pros from all US Tours and broadcast booths.
But there's been some good as well, in the world of Golf at least.

4).With impeccable timing, the Rolex Series for the European Tour was introduced, with the promise of at least one more tournament (France?) to be added to the seven already announced. Not sure we know all the details yet, and the ramifications for PGA Tour members (including South Africans) have yet to be established, but this can't be anything other than terrific news for the E.T.

5).Don't know whether this is good or what, but the reformatting of the Zurich Classic in New Orleans next April seems to beg more questions than it answers, not least any rationale surrounding owgr points (it seems none will be awarded) and how they're going to fill the field. And at a venue, New Orleans, that often experiences an untimely monsoon season to coincide with the tournament, how are they going to manage 160 golfers playing four-balls on the Friday?

6).Meanwhile, the LPGA seems interested in acquiring the Ladies European Tour and using it as feeder for its own Tour. Not sure how that will go down.

7).More positive news for European Seniors is that its new "Head" man, Dave McLaren, is laying out plans to increase the number of tournaments and raise prize money, hopefully within a couple of years. Don't expect Europe's Seniors to reach the kind of wealth that Bernhard Langer has achieved on the Champions Tour (almost $21M and counting), but anything to achieve stability would be welcomed. Meanwhile, the likes of Barry Lane and Van der Velde are competing here in Champions Tour Q-School (both leading in their respective venues after Round 1), hoping to join the likes of Langer, Montgomerie, Mechanic, Broadhurst, Woosie, Lyle and, when he feels fit to compete, Olazabal.

8).This time last year, Graeme McDowell travelled to the Seaside with a Mayakoba win under his belt and proceeded to finish third. Strange, then, that's he's not in this week's field, especially disappointing after three superb rounds last week. Luke Donald will be playing, trying to emerge from the wreckage of his career - a couple of runner-up finishes last year but nothing to suggest he'll be back at the top anytime soon. But these courses might suit him.

9).It's a sad commentary on the state of Australian Golf that last year's Aussie Open Champ, Matt Jones, is playing the RSM/McGladrey rather than defending his title. Admittedly he needs all the starts he can get after mysteriously taking last season just easy enough that he narrowly lost his card, but really . . . . . . . .

10).No PGA Tour action next week, even though Thanksgiving has been postponed in most US homes for four years. There IS a World Cup in Australia, plus Champions Tour and web.com Q-Schools in the next three weeks, but the Ballwasher is pretty clogged up with fallen leaves and season-ending debris, so only sporadic musings until January. Merry Christmas!

Little man syndrome I reckon.

super_realist wrote:However, what possible attributes do you think he has which show you he could be a good captain?

I think the problem is when it comes to good potential captains for the USA side... except for maybe Love and Couples the cupboard is fairly bare. As far as I'm concerned, while they won't use Freddie... as long as he and Love were to remain "connected" to the guys who would actually play (unlike Tom Watson), they could captain in perpetuity and it would be fine by me. I wish it did, but it don't work that way.

So when you get past those two guys... WHAT exactly makes a good candidate out of the remaining candidates, and how can you possibly know in advance? It certainly ain't a long term winning RC record cuz we just ain't got none of those guys. Maybe someday we will in a Reed or Spieth type, but we don't have them now. Bottom line is I don't see one single player on the USA side being less willing or apt to "give their all" for good ole' Team USA regardless if it's Furyk, Stricker, Phil or Tiger as their leader. And from a overall captaincy standpoint, sounds to me like Phil, Tiger and Furyk and probably Stricker as well are all incredibly engaged in both the process and strategy of it all now, and any one would be as good as any other.... unless of course we're to believe those guys saying such unprompted glowing things about them are bald faced liars. I don't think they are.

The cupboard certainly is bare, a bit like candidates for the England Football Manager.

I think what the US needs to avoid is simply having a conveyor belt of career golfers who have stood out from the rest and somehow having a Clintonesque rotunda and expectation that this year is "their turn". That's never a good thing, as people haven't shown any suitability or skills in that case and I think America has been guilty of that in the past.

Europe have been quite good at avoiding such a situation, and it has served them well.

I simply can't see why the US haven't given Couples a go. He seems to be everything that 9C isn't.

Watching the World Cup on my DVR right now.... man... just LOVE the way the Australian fans appreciate all the players regardless of which country they're playing for. I'm seeing great, positive gallery reactions for good shots regardless of who's making them... good stuff there.

Don't they do that in America Robo?

super_realist wrote:The cupboard certainly is bare, a bit like candidates for the England Football Manager.

I think what the US needs to avoid is simply having a conveyor belt of career golfers who have stood out from the rest and somehow having a Clintonesque rotunda and expectation that this year is "their turn".

IMO the USA are on track to do the same thing the Euro's have been doing so successfully... having a process where potential future captains serve as VC's so everybody can see how they take to it and how the players relate to them. As far as I'm concerned, that's all the USA side really could and should be doing. I'd want a captain who seems engaged and competent in understanding the strategy, has the balls to make the pairings calls that need to be made, relates well and is respected by the players, and can set a "comfortable" environment for the players to practice and prepare, but also to relax as much as possible in the circumstance.

The key area I could see Tiger possibly having issues in regard to any of that is he might be so freeking intense it tightens everyone else up. But then again, I don't see how it's possible for anyone to be more intense than Zinger was, and that seemed to work out alright.

The other possible attribute may be that it seems what the USA players want more of these days is a captain who can bend and twist to kiss their prima-donna butts in just the way they want them kissed. So in that regard, not sure Tiger or Phil would be good choices.

super_realist wrote:Don't they do that in America Robo?

Sure, but it's just "different" from what I'm seeing.  Looks like nice galleries today for all the players regardless from where they're from or how high or low they're ranked.  Here the galleries are much more apt to gaggle around the "marquee" pairings and leave the rest of the field out there mostly playing by themselves.

I don't think America coverage helps much to dispel that either though Robo.

When I've watched American feeds they tend to focus on people who are either A) In the top 3 B) American or C) a marquee group.

What you don't seem to get is when you get a random director shift to a player you haven't seen all day and you just know you are about to see a special shot.

Although I don't like The Open because I don't think it's very photogenic, you do see a good variety of players regardless of who they are, where they come from etc.
Although If someone is stinking the house out, you don't see them unless they do something special or are holing out for an 82.

Well sure... when some guy is +6 and suddenly they show one of his shots you know it's gotta be something good.

But actually I see pretty much the same kind of "direction" on both sides of the pond. I prefer to watch Sky coverage of Euro Tour events when I can, and they seem to focus on the marquee groups as much as they do here. The main difference I see is here they spend a lot more time away from the golf with "features" and the camera on the commentators just so they can hear (and see) themselves talk. The features I don't mind so much, in fact enjoy most of them as we gain insight on the players. But the obligatory couple of minutes with the Sponsor CEO, while probably necessary to get the sponsor bucks, does nothing for me. But the biggest irritant.... the PLAY and the PLAYERS are what we want to see, not Johnny or Nick or Nantz or any of the other commentators preening in front of the camera. I don't mind any of them talking about the play, but all of them need way LESS face time.

Anybody have thoughts on if the OWGR should consider rating team events?  I've never really thought they should, but I very much enjoy some alternate formats from time to time. Yet OWGR rankings and points being so important in golf's structure these days, I'd have to think we see a whole lot LESS alternate formats because OWGR points aren't available.

However... I'm not now, and never have been in favor of crediting players with "full wins" on their resume's for team wins. IMO they should be credited as "half wins".  Awkward to list fractions on "wins lists" I know, but IMO better than giving both players full wins.  

IMO the PGAT is doing it "mostly" right with New Orleans going to a team format. They're taking 1st and 2nd FedEx points and money, combining them and splitting them for 1st place (and so on down the field). But again, I don't like that each will get credited with a full win.  But the more I think about it, the more I'm not sure I wouldn't prefer the players getting OWGR points. IMO after the new wears off this event, without the points, I'm not sure it'll continue to draw the top talent beyond how many Zurich "ambassadors" they can sign up.  I'm betting this weeks World Cup would have a much better field if OWGR points were involved as well.

This might be what Super needs next week if Tiger plays poorly

https://twitter.com/NoLayingUp?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

Agreed. You wonder whether they bother finding out what people actually want to watch via some sort of focus group, or whether it's all about shoe horning in as much commercial aspects as they can

Robo: Do you mean you don't like the gratuitous thumbnail picture in picture of Peter Jacobson (or Gary Koch) while they are commentating on Kevin Streelman's 15 ft birdie on hole #12.

GPB wrote:This might be what Super needs next week if Tiger plays poorly

https://twitter.com/NoLayingUp?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

If he plays well, I can give them to Mac.

GPB wrote:Robo:  Do you mean you don't like the gratuitous thumbnail picture in picture of Peter Jacobson (or Gary Koch) while they are commentating on Kevin Streelman's 15 ft birdie on hole #12.

Is a thumbnail any worse than the arm folding hologram biography they do of each player? That's so bad it's almost funny.

robopz wrote:But the biggest irritant.... the PLAY and the PLAYERS are what we want to see, not Johnny or Nick or Nantz or any of the other commentators preening in front of the camera.  I don't mind any of them talking about the play, but all of them need way LESS face time.

100% with you on this Robo. Personally, I don't care for after round interviews either. I appreciate Sky at other times have to go back to the anchors as their feed might be going to another advert, but I still don't like it. Another bugbear of mine - they cut away when a player is having trouble with a shot, or asks for a ruling, and sometimes that might be interesting to see what a player does.

When the Masters is shown, you can select to follow a group or a particular holes or holes. I quite often do that as I feel the coverage is preferable.

GPB wrote:Robo:  Do you mean you don't like the gratuitous thumbnail picture in picture of Peter Jacobson (or Gary Koch) while they are commentating on Kevin Streelman's 15 ft birdie on hole #12.

actually I couldn't care less about those one way or the other... As long as the play is being shown. Wish they would do that with about 90% of the camera time of the anchors.

I guess the thing I don't get about American sports broadcasting is the fixation on the guys doing the coverage to the detriment of the event they're actually covering. It's not that I dislike the announcers, most of them are pretty darn good, it's just.... Show the damn action. Same thing with the NFL Dallas game yesterday. Joe Buck got almost as much face time as Dak Prescott... There's something way wrong when we make the announcers any where near as big a "star", as the players.

All I can say is... It must work with the broader audience though. These networks know how to test audience reaction, and they wouldn't keep doing it If their research didn't support it.

INW... Agree mostly, especially how nice the Masters alternate coverage is. It's great to have options.

I might disagree a little on the post round interviews though. I like the perspective from the players own mouths, especially when they've had one of those WTF moments out there... :-)

super_realist wrote:Of course I'm not non-biased. I hate the bell end and I like seeing him fail.

What's so chin rubbing about that Mac?
Did you think I would think any different?

Really?

A couple of robo responses:

1).I would disagree with Team events receiving the same "currency" as normal events, full stop.
However, I DO feel that if two-man Team events ARE anointed with full status, it's tone deaf of Augusta National not to offer the winners an invitation.

2).Don't you think Monday Night Football with Cosell (especially), Gifford & Meredith started the "announcer is more important than the event" syndrome? And Musberger was always terrible at that.
I always think Warren Humphries does a fantastic job for the ET broadcast Golf Channel sends us - massive expertise and experience, never makes it about him, and fulfils two roles, anchor & commentator, always keeps the trains running on time without being in the slightest bit intrusive. A precipitous drop in quality when Shane Donoghue or Doogie Donnelly take the helm.

Good old Doogly Donnelly.

kwinigolfer wrote:1).I would disagree with Team events receiving the same "currency" as normal events, full stop.
However, I DO feel that if two-man Team events ARE anointed with full status, it's tone deaf of Augusta National not to offer the winners an invitation.

At first it didn't bother me at all that Augusta isn't inviting the winner... but the more I think of it... the more I wish they would

kwinigolfer wrote:2).Don't you think Monday Night Football with Cosell (especially), Gifford & Meredith started the "announcer is more important than the event" syndrome? And Musberger was always terrible at that.
I always think Warren Humphries does a fantastic job for the ET broadcast Golf Channel sends us - massive expertise and experience, never makes it about him, and fulfils two roles, anchor & commentator, always keeps the trains running on time without being in the slightest bit intrusive. A precipitous drop in quality when Shane Donoghue or Doogie Donnelly take the helm.

Oh yeah... the big time "Star" announcer didn't start with this generation. Heck, I remember that back in the day a boxing match just wasn't important unless Howard Cosell was there to make the call. And to be clear, I'm actually very high on the quality of the job most the American announcers do. I'm just tiring of it becoming so much about them that sometimes the golf gets lost. I dunno, maybe the network's testing shows that if the Miller's and Faldo's aren't there as big "stars" in their own right, then there's not enough "golfer" star power to carry the weeks the top players are taking a powder or in some of the second-tier events where they're not there to begin with.....

Kwini

Could a calculation not be made that would make you happy to see team events (not RC) award OWGR or fedex points?

For example in the WC you could 1/2 and then add each pairs OWGR position, calculate a field strength from that then award 1/2 OWGR points to each member of the team. Or come up with something slightly cleverer.

A lot of propaganda about Olympic Golf being a success despite many top professionals skipping the event for various reasons.

And then there is:

http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2016/11/25/afp-rio-olympic-course-weeks-removed-from-hosting-games-may.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Geoff Shackleford wrote:We knew given the shady and bizarre ownership that things could go either way for the course. But downhill this quickly?

An AFP report (unbylined) says the Olympic golf course in Rio may be just a month or so from losing the ability to maintain fairways and greens.

The existing maintenance company is not getting paid, the clubhouse is unfurnished and all signs point to trouble.

With so few locals playing and no obvious plan for attracting foreigners, funding is already a problem.

Neil Cleverly, the Briton who built the course and now manages the upkeep, says the company he works for, Progolf, has not been paid for two months.

"What happens when we run out of gas or diesel? We've been close," Cleverly said. "None of us know if there'll be a job for us in December."

A source close to the company who asked not to be identified said Progolf has been given no contract by the confederation and, having been forced to foot the $82000 monthly maintenance operation out of its own pocket, is set to pull out.

Maybe "next month," the source said.

If that happens, the confederation would quickly have to find expert replacements before damage set in.

Without maintenance, "the golf course will die," the source said. "It could take four weeks, three weeks."

Well... SOMEBODY was supposed to take the ball and run with it down there... but I think the games have bankrupted the economy in Rio even more than even they realized... Such a shame.

In hind sight, there were a lot of people calling for the use of the already existing and successful Itanhangá Golf Club for the Olympics. It would have taken minimal investment to do so, but those voices were drowned out by all the interests with "Grand Plans" before that ever got off the ground.

I hope the IGF steps back in long enough to give this course a fighting chance to market itself and become sustainable at some level.

How can it cost £82000 a month to mow the grass and cut a new hole once a week?

That is facetious of course, but £82000 a month seems very steep to keep a course in reasonable condition. If it really does require that amount to keep it going why was it designed to require such upkeep costs?

Architecture side track here, I have had a suspicion for a while that some of the so called "minimalist" designs of the last 15-20 years are not actually that cheap to keep. A lot of the minimalist designs are produced for high end private clubs or for organisations that can keep them going.

Why is there even the slightest surprise that this course is going to rack and ruin?

The majority of venues in previous Olympics are left to rot, and in the non golf playing country of Brazil it is not remotely surprising.

Looked a rubbish course anyway, it didn't even have tee boxes.

Mac,
Just caught up with yr post. I don't know, but there are so many niceties to sort out that I can't imagine anything transparently equitable could ever be devised. But we'll have points dished out for an exhibition this coming week so who knows?

As for the Olympic course, and as Joe Pesci would say, "Oh, there's a f*cking surprise."

Kwini

I guess there are so few team events it doesn't really matter. Have you watched any of the WC?

Kingstone heath might have some of the best small scale ground movement outside TOC.



Here is a Paulina thanksgiving special.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BNN1vU1jwkp/?taken-by=paulinagretzky&hl=en


DJ looks like he is having fun, and no snow in sight.

Yup, enjoyed what I've seen, but the Aussie TV presentation doesn't do the event or venue justice. Love Kingston Heath and the Sandbelt.

And couldn't care less about Paulina . . . . . unfortunately her strutting about is what passes for news on golfchannel.com etc.

I've always thought the Olympics should be held in the same place ...

Winter in Austria - Infrastructure in place, a population that knows how to run things, etc.

Summer in Greece - An economy in sore need of help.

Shotrock

Or even give out multi year Olympic deals, say maybe the host city has to host 4 or 5 games in a row?

Shotrock... never thought about repeating venues for the Olympics before... but of course it'd never work because it makes too much sense.... :-)

Also, the IOC spivs wouldn't get to have their arses licked and be taken on tours of bidding cities etc often enough for their liking.

Maybe not repeating venues, but how about a small number of cities who rotate it?

Shotrock wrote:

Summer in Greece - An economy in sore need of help.

Well then the Olympics won't do them any good. Huge initial investments required and far from certain to make a profit. A dodgy business case at best. Good luck convincing Frau Merkel..

navyblueshorts wrote:Also, the IOC spivs wouldn't get to have their arses licked and be taken on tours of bidding cities etc often enough for their liking.

Imagine the level of arse licking required to be in the rota then...

Pedro - Point well taken. I'm not sure why anyone would lend Greece money these days. Perhaps we could have the Austrians run the Summer Olympics "from" Greece!

But if you spin it as regional EU subsidy it could happen.. tough one to sell though..

Guaranteed OWGR points at the Hero World Challenge....you just gotta love it.

Per Prince Dracula's tweet earlier today.

If TW finishes DFL his ranking goes up 150 spots. If he finishes 30 shots behind 17th place, his ranking goes up 150 spots. Not that there is much of difference between #750 and #900.

Thanks PD!!

Tiger's OWGR ranking next week:

That is disgraceful.
All these limited field tin pot invitationals should be Zero points.

Back in 2013, Dustin finished DFL in the HWC, losing by 24 shots and got 2.4 OWGR points.

Also In 2013, Dustin finished solo 55th in the US Open, losing by 16 shots, beating 101 players and got 2.0 OWGR pts.

GPB wrote:

If TW finishes DFL his ranking goes up 150 spots.  If he finishes 30 shots behind 17th place, his ranking goes up 150 spots.  Not that there is much of difference between #750 and #900.

Of course when he withdraws he'll get sweet FA

Just for the halibut .. how high would he climb if he won it? After all this year we've had Leicester, Brexit and Trump ...

Davie - Don't forget the Cubs.

I give TW about a 25% chance of playing all 4 rounds.

BetVictor are offering 40/1 on Tiger - same as ZJ and JB

I give him about a 25% chance of starting!

Davie wrote:

Just for the halibut .. how high would he climb if he won it? After all this year we've had Leicester, Brexit and Trump ...

That is in the spoiler box.

Davie - I would NOT bet against you. I'm guessing he'll tweak one of his many muscles.