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PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside: Notes from the Ballwasher

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Post by kwinigolfer Wed 16 Nov 2016, 3:27 pm

First topic message reminder :

1).That's where we are this week, for the second week running after Mayakoba's beachside beauty - which is no way to describe winner Pat Perez. Quite the return from injury for Perez, long regarded as one of the Tour's premier "ball strikers" - if he was anywhere close as good between the ears as he is with his irons, he'd win five times a year, said Johnny Miller, or words to that effect anyway. Almost a shame he won as his combustible self-destruction act is quite something to behold.
And he's the third Mayakoba winner in a row to break a victory drought following Charley Hoffman and Graeme McDowell.

2).We travel this week to the Golden Isles of Georgia and the two courses that make up the venue for the RSM (formerly McGladrey) Classic. 18 holes each at the Plantation Course and Seaside Course, then 36 weekend holes at Seaside - a Harry Colt design originally, and a beautiful setting which will be graced by equally beautiful weather. These "Isles" are popular destinations for Tour players to live and practice, led by Davis Love and joined by Kuchar, Zach Johnson and several others.

3).A lot has happened in the past ten days. Obviously.
We all know the Ugly (not to say vulgar, racist, misogynistic, isolationist) which evolved into the Bad (very bad, tremendously bad), and was roundly welcomed by Pros from all US Tours and broadcast booths.
But there's been some good as well, in the world of Golf at least.

4).With impeccable timing, the Rolex Series for the European Tour was introduced, with the promise of at least one more tournament (France?) to be added to the seven already announced. Not sure we know all the details yet, and the ramifications for PGA Tour members (including South Africans) have yet to be established, but this can't be anything other than terrific news for the E.T.

5).Don't know whether this is good or what, but the reformatting of the Zurich Classic in New Orleans next April seems to beg more questions than it answers, not least any rationale surrounding owgr points (it seems none will be awarded) and how they're going to fill the field. And at a venue, New Orleans, that often experiences an untimely monsoon season to coincide with the tournament, how are they going to manage 160 golfers playing four-balls on the Friday?

6).Meanwhile, the LPGA seems interested in acquiring the Ladies European Tour and using it as feeder for its own Tour. Not sure how that will go down.

7).More positive news for European Seniors is that its new "Head" man, Dave McLaren, is laying out plans to increase the number of tournaments and raise prize money, hopefully within a couple of years. Don't expect Europe's Seniors to reach the kind of wealth that Bernhard Langer has achieved on the Champions Tour (almost $21M and counting), but anything to achieve stability would be welcomed. Meanwhile, the likes of Barry Lane and Van der Velde are competing here in Champions Tour Q-School (both leading in their respective venues after Round 1), hoping to join the likes of Langer, Montgomerie, Mechanic, Broadhurst, Woosie, Lyle and, when he feels fit to compete, Olazabal.

8).This time last year, Graeme McDowell travelled to the Seaside with a Mayakoba win under his belt and proceeded to finish third. Strange, then, that's he's not in this week's field, especially disappointing after three superb rounds last week. Luke Donald will be playing, trying to emerge from the wreckage of his career - a couple of runner-up finishes last year but nothing to suggest he'll be back at the top anytime soon. But these courses might suit him.

9).It's a sad commentary on the state of Australian Golf that last year's Aussie Open Champ, Matt Jones, is playing the RSM/McGladrey rather than defending his title. Admittedly he needs all the starts he can get after mysteriously taking last season just easy enough that he narrowly lost his card, but really . . . . . . . .

10).No PGA Tour action next week, even though Thanksgiving has been postponed in most US homes for four years. There IS a World Cup in Australia, plus Champions Tour and web.com Q-Schools in the next three weeks, but the Ballwasher is pretty clogged up with fallen leaves and season-ending debris, so only sporadic musings until January. Merry Christmas!

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Post by McLaren Thu 08 Dec 2016, 10:33 am

Haven't you seen mean girls?
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Post by super_realist Thu 08 Dec 2016, 10:41 am

Of course not Mac, why would I?

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Post by McLaren Thu 08 Dec 2016, 10:59 am

Not a bad movie and a bit of a laugh, why not give it a go?
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Post by super_realist Thu 08 Dec 2016, 11:00 am

If you don't mind Mac, I won't take recommendations from someone who counts "Glee" among "must see viewing".

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Post by kwinigolfer Thu 08 Dec 2016, 12:21 pm

web.com Q-School kicks off this morning, at the sites of the old Disney tournament.

Some interesting names, veterans and young guns, but only David Skinns and college hot-shot Ben Taylor from GB&I.I think.

Trevor Fisher leads the Saffers and Nick Cullen the Aussies.

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Post by robopz Thu 08 Dec 2016, 1:32 pm

New "local rule" being put in by the USGA. No penalty if player causes his ball or ball marker to move on a green "by accident". Replace it, and play on. Mike Davis is indicating the rule will be in effect for their championships... and thus the DJ situation wouldn't have happened.

With greens getting as fast as they are today for the pro's... GOOD MOVE

New Local Rule Takes Effect Jan. 1

“Rules 18-2, 18-3 and 20-1 are modified as follows:

When a player’s ball lies on the putting green, there is no penalty if the ball or ball-marker is accidentally moved by the player, his partner, his opponent, or any of their caddies or equipment.

The moved ball or ball-marker must be replaced as provided in Rules 18-2, 18-3 and 20-1.

This Local Rule applies only when the player’s ball or ball-marker lies on the putting green and any movement is accidental.

Note: If it is determined that a player’s ball on the putting green was moved as a result of wind, water or some other natural cause such as the effects of gravity, the ball must be played as it lies from its new location. A ball-marker moved in such circumstances is replaced.”



http://www.usga.org/rules-hub/2017-local-rule/new-local-rule.html

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Post by pedro Thu 08 Dec 2016, 1:53 pm

Watched a Q&A with Thomas Bjorn, and the no. one rule he'd like to change was signing of scorecards. Totally antiquated in his opinion -- and in mine as well.

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Post by SmithersJones Thu 08 Dec 2016, 2:00 pm

If we can't call him Drumpf then I guess we'll have to use the codename the Secret Service are apparently keen to adopt - FukFace Von Clownstick!
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Post by robopz Thu 08 Dec 2016, 2:40 pm

pedro wrote:Watched a Q&A with Thomas Bjorn, and the no. one rule he'd like to change was signing of scorecards. Totally antiquated in his opinion -- and in mine as well.
Agree with you in the world of professional golf on the bigger Tour's where there's scorer's along with each group. But not on all Tours where there aren't scorers, or in golf at the local level.

I think part of the issue here is the professional tours are trying to minimize bifurcation of the rules where they can avoid it. So the rules are mostly written for the local amateur side of the game, then followed UP the line.  If we're OK with them playing with a different set of rules, then fine. PGAT does it already with their embedded ball through the green rule. The approved local rule calls for that to be allowed when conditions warrant such as muddy or wet. But the PGAT has it in effect all the time.

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Post by pedro Thu 08 Dec 2016, 2:54 pm

I'm OK with them playing with a different set of rules.
We see it in all sports.
Sometimes you have to be pragmatic rather than fundamentalist.

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Post by GPB Thu 08 Dec 2016, 3:09 pm

super_realist wrote:Seems a bit rich GPB to complain about nicknames when you write like you are in a bad American sitcom. Saying "really" as a singular word representing mock surprise is not really any better is it?

LMAO...Its called Slang.  And this from someone who continually mocks a player by calling him 9C. Doh

Edited to add:

BTW, Super, I noticed you dropped the conversation about TW being a RC Captain after I answered your challenge. My guess is that you think it is valid reason why TW might be a good Captain.


Last edited by GPB on Thu 08 Dec 2016, 3:15 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by kwinigolfer Thu 08 Dec 2016, 3:15 pm

At least we know who FFVonC is now. Thanks Smithers thumbsup

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Post by super_realist Thu 08 Dec 2016, 3:15 pm

Nothing wrong with a few nicknames. It's only a golf forum, not the bloody Oxford Union.

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Post by GPB Thu 08 Dec 2016, 3:18 pm

super_realist wrote:Nothing wrong with a few nicknames. It's only a golf forum, not the bloody Oxford Union.

This from the person that got all uppity that I used "Really" as a exclamation. Using those insulting monikers is childish and juvenile. Forgive me for expecting more from adults.

BTW, I edited my previous post...please read.

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Post by robopz Thu 08 Dec 2016, 3:20 pm

pedro wrote:I'm OK with them playing with a different set of rules.
We see it in all sports.
Sometimes you have to be pragmatic rather than fundamentalist.
On issues like scorecards, I agree. I just know there's been a strong desire from the Tour's to keep as close to "same rules for everybody" as they can. And I can see legitimate reasoning behind that point of view.

I've always been one that believes there's a way to do it without a full bifurcation. Approved local rules like this new one on the accidental moving of the ball is a perfect example. This new rule does NOT replace the existing rule, it's more a condition of competition that may or may not be implemented at "the committee's" behest. So apply that same concept to the scorecard thing. If there were an approved local rule that said something to the effect of "In the case when independent scorers are used, the responsibility of a player attesting his score may be waived". Problem solved.

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Post by super_realist Thu 08 Dec 2016, 3:22 pm

GPB wrote:
super_realist wrote:Nothing wrong with a few nicknames. It's only a golf forum, not the bloody Oxford Union.

This from the person that got all uppity that I used "Really" as a exclamation.  Using those insulting monikers is childish and juvenile.  Forgive me for expecting more from adults.

BTW, I edited my previous post...please read.

Ha ha ha, THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT. You were moaning like a spoilt brat because someone called Trump, Drumpf inferring it was puerile and childish and I pointed out that it was RICH of you to take that line considering your teenage expression of "really" which you said in mock surprise to Trump being referred to as Drumpf.


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Post by GPB Thu 08 Dec 2016, 3:26 pm

"Really" is just a slang expression. Its not insulting.

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Post by super_realist Thu 08 Dec 2016, 3:29 pm

I didn't say it was insulting, not even close, I said it was reminiscent of a bad American sit-com, because it's a contrived, fake and over-acted reaction and in particular is favoured by teenagers who use it as a form of demonstrating mock surprise, so for you to use it in response to "silly" nicknames is hardly much of an improvement is it, and amusing you can't see the irony.

Nicknames aren't insulting either, especially as none of the people who we have nick names for will ever hear about it. move on.

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Post by pedro Thu 08 Dec 2016, 3:41 pm

'Bubba' is far worse than 'Rev'..

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Post by GPB Thu 08 Dec 2016, 3:48 pm

Web-com Q-school underway.

PGATour Veteran Casey Wittenburg off to a good start.

Still don't understand why Aaron Wise is not in the field.

Going to be a slog. Quite a few players had completed nine holes before all the field at started their rounds.

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Post by kwinigolfer Thu 08 Dec 2016, 3:57 pm

Casey Wittenberg still receiving his Tiger annuity for his drop at the Players.
Doesn't he define bubble boy? PGA Tour one year, can't keep his web.com card the next, then hey presto he's bouncing back at Q-School? Pretty soon he'll be at Champo Q-School wondering where his career went.

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Post by super_realist Thu 08 Dec 2016, 3:59 pm

pedro wrote:'Bubba' is far worse than 'Rev'..

Tiger, Boo and JB are all stupid nicknames too, but apparently they're alright.

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Post by golfermartin Thu 08 Dec 2016, 4:34 pm

At least JB are his initials. Many people have gone along that line: DH Lawrence, JRR Tolkien, AA Milne, JB Priestly to name a few

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Post by GPB Thu 08 Dec 2016, 4:42 pm

JB Holmes first name is John.

He decided to go with JB rather than get mixed up with a famous ahem 'actor' by the same name.

I remember when he was a rookie to watch, the pithy preview was "Length is not a factor"

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Post by Shotrock Thu 08 Dec 2016, 4:51 pm

JB is not a stupid nickname.

For stupid names, nothing is goofier than "Sergio" or "Lee" or even "Colin". Just plain awful.

I'll be happy to keep these things sorted for those of you who lack sophistication (but don't seem to lack any pomposity).

You're welcome.


Wink

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Post by super_realist Thu 08 Dec 2016, 5:04 pm

I'll take a Sergio, Lee or Colin over a Keegan, Chesson, Hudson, Smylie, Duffy, Eldrick, Webb, Picabo Street, Misty Hyman or any names like that.

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Post by McLaren Thu 08 Dec 2016, 5:05 pm

The Uk cannot mock other countries names when we came up with the horrors that are Kieth and Kevin. Just shiversome, as super would say.
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Post by super_realist Thu 08 Dec 2016, 5:07 pm

McLaren wrote:The Uk cannot mock other countries names when we came up with the horrors that are Kieth and Kevin.  Just shiversome, as super would say.

They are awful names, but they are names which aren't exactly popular these days. Do you know if they are even UK in origin? I'm not so sure.

Pretty sure Kevin is an Oirish name Leprechaun

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Post by robopz Thu 08 Dec 2016, 5:52 pm

pedro wrote:'Bubba' is far worse than 'Rev'..
: Except Bubba chose and accepted his and it fits. But for a guy who almost never brings up religion on his own nor wears it on his sleeve like Spieth, to be referred to as "Rev", just smacks as something from someone who otherwise doesn't like him, but can't voice an intelligent logical criticism as to why. So instead they  fall back on what they assume is a clever cheap-shot personal insult.

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Post by kwinigolfer Thu 08 Dec 2016, 9:02 pm

BDC's side-saddle antics look ridiculous. The scientist in him promotes paralysis from analysis. Doesn't look remotely relaxed playing.

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Post by McLaren Thu 08 Dec 2016, 10:02 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:BDC's side-saddle antics look ridiculous. The scientist in him promotes paralysis from analysis. Doesn't look remotely relaxed playing.

Kwini I have only seen a 5 second video from what I think must have been a practice round. From the coverage can you tell what the other players make of his antics on the green?


(PS is the shark shootout what the Hero would look like without the OWGR points?)
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Post by kwinigolfer Thu 08 Dec 2016, 10:55 pm

No idea what others think, and the TV coverage was much more interested in her partner du jour, Lexi Thompson (why do I find her so statuesquely unattractive?) than BDC. It did look silly though.

The Shark Shootout has been around for way longer, about 15 years I think, than Woods's WC; it's always seemed to be about guys just wanning to have fun. And I think they succeed, always enjoyable to watch. For moi anyway.

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Post by robopz Thu 08 Dec 2016, 10:56 pm

McLaren wrote:(PS is the shark shootout what the Hero would look like without the OWGR points?)
Probably not that bad, but certainly less than it is now IMO. If OWGR rated this year's 24-player Shark field it would be about 106 ERV's or a 26 level... compared to 264 ERV or level 46 for the 18-player World Challenge. But then again... if the Shark was getting OWGR ranking, it would be getting a lot better field... chicken or the egg....

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Post by robopz Thu 08 Dec 2016, 11:01 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:No idea what others think, and the TV coverage was much more interested in her partner du jour, Lexi Thompson (why do I find her so statuesquely unattractive?) than BDC. It did look silly though.

The Shark Shootout has been around for way longer, about 15 years I think, than Woods's WC; it's always seemed to be about guys just wanning to have fun. And I think they succeed, always enjoyable to watch. For moi anyway.
I probably spent more time watching it today than the sum total of time I've watched since it's inception.... and all because of Lexi. It's not like I find her strikingly attractive or anything (despite how hard she tries, and I do appreciate that), there's just something about her that's intriguing to me. She just seems a lot more authentic "what you see is what you get" type of gal.

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Post by kwinigolfer Thu 08 Dec 2016, 11:18 pm

Different strokes, and all that . . . .
Shark Shootout has been one of my fave events since its inception at Sherwood (I think). Best silly season event ever.

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Post by McLaren Thu 08 Dec 2016, 11:29 pm

Kwini

Maybe I have odd taste, but Lexi is pretty hot from what I can tell.
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Post by kwinigolfer Fri 09 Dec 2016, 12:54 am

That's OK Mac, Golf Digest etc loves her too.

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Post by GPB Fri 09 Dec 2016, 3:10 am

Justin Thomas in a tweet wrote:To prevent more texts about it, yes @b_dechambeau is really good at the side saddle, no I couldn't do it and yes he is a lot smarter than me

Does anyone think that BdC is going to this method because he wants to be different and/or he thinks it is a worse option.

Cursory look at the SGP rankings and I see that BdC is 166th overall, and 93rd out of 135 of the players with 10 or more rounds.

BTW, back in the late 80's. I built a putter that I could putt side saddle and anchored in my armpit. I thought it was a better method because I was facing the line, not looking perpendicular to it.

I would have like to have a golf manufacturer as support rather than my garage and limited equipment.

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Post by Roller_Coaster Fri 09 Dec 2016, 8:10 am

Used to play with a guy that putted side saddle.

Always remember we got to our 16th once and I'd had a terrible day on the greens with the 16th being what must have been my 4th or 5th 3 putt of the day, to which he chirped up that I was the worst putter he'd ever seen.

Just before he 5 putted from 15 feet.


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Post by robopz Fri 09 Dec 2016, 1:38 pm

GPB wrote: Does anyone think that BdC is going to this method because he wants to be different and/or he thinks it is a worse option.
I have no doubt he's trying it in an attempt to get better. For me it's as much that 8 months into his pro career he's lost confidence in his putting so bad he's resorting to something like this? I wish him luck, I really do, but I'm just not feeling it for him.

And yes I've tried it too... we had a guy who putted side saddle with his long putter from time to time. I found it interesting in that I could actually hit the line pretty darn well, but ONLY if I was standing astride the ball croquet style... (obviously Illegal).... but when I did it legally outside my right foot, I was missing lines on 10' putts by 4-5 balls either right or left. I couldn't start them on my intended line for nothing. And speed, forget it. I never could get speed with any long putter, so no surprise there really.

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Post by robopz Fri 09 Dec 2016, 2:15 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:Different strokes, and all that . . . .
Shark Shootout has been one of my fave events since its inception at Sherwood (I think). Best silly season event ever.
The dynamic between Norman and FOX doing the broadcast must be interesting. FOX picked up the Shootout a few years back when he went with them to do U.S. Open coverage, but after being unceremoniously booted from the FOX broadcast team, I'd have to think it's at least a little bit awkward relationship now.

And I get the "different strokes" thing.... but IMO the problem with this event is it has a really tough time attracting star power anymore. It gets a top player every now and again (like Day last year), but usually not so much.  Like I mentioned before, if it wasn't for Lexi, I wouldn't care much about it this year.

Contrast that to "the old days" when splitting $250k for the winners and splitting $60k last place guarantee was still considered "real money".  The first 1989 event was won by O'Meara and Strange, but also featured, Langer, Mahaffey, Wadkins, Weiskopf, Floyd, Nicklaus, Irwin, Kite, Sutton, Calc, Lietzke, Jacobsen, Arnie and Trevino.  Sure some of those guys were past their prime, but it didn't matter... they were still the cream of golfing royalty in America at that time.

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Post by kwinigolfer Fri 09 Dec 2016, 2:29 pm

All true of course, but I don't much care about the "star power", probably why I enjoy Hartford so much. Like to see up-and-comers and personalities as much as surly galacticos.
Half the time I watch the stars up close and personal on a big stage they disappoint anyway. Plus, so many are even slower in person than they appear on TV. Perhaps that's why Calcavecchia is my all time fave to follow!

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Post by I'm never wrong Fri 09 Dec 2016, 2:56 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:Perhaps that's why Calcavecchia is my all time fave to follow!
2 hours 3 minutes? Very Happy

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Post by GPB Fri 09 Dec 2016, 4:24 pm

Wittenberg making a big mess after -5 through 9 holes.

He is now +2 after 24 holes.

Most of the current Top 10 are unknown golfers to me.

Exceptions

Paige Mackenzie's (Former Curtis Cupper, LPGAer, and current Golf Channel part time analyst) older brother is in the Top 10. He finished 2nd on the Canadian Tour Money list last year and earned a spot in the Webbie Q-school.

and Aussie Steve Allan who was a PGATour member for 5 consecutive years (2001-2005). Back then he had a baby face, he must be getting a little more weathered at age 43.

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Post by robopz Fri 09 Dec 2016, 5:17 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:All true of course, but I don't much care about the "star power", probably why I enjoy Hartford so much. Like to see up-and-comers and personalities as much as surly galacticos.
I get it... I like to watch the up and comers play as well... I just prefer it when they're playing for something meaningful. There's so much golf on that does matter.... events like this and the CVS just don't do it for me any more. Now if they'd give us a skins game where the players put up their own money.... hell yes I'd watch that, regardless of WHO showed up.

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Post by robopz Sat 10 Dec 2016, 3:49 pm

Sounds like Greg Norman has some double secret plan (with Verizon as a partner) to take over world golf again... supposed to be revealed next spring... and supposedly something the PGAT, PGA of A, USGA, R&A are going to be "forced' to go along with.... "We’re going to shatter it. The institutions (USGA, R&A, PGA of America, PGA Tour) will eventually buy into it because they will have to buy into it. They won’t have a choice."

Boy this is gonna be fun.

Also to be revealed is the details of his RE-BRANDING of all his interests to ensure they maximize their future potential...

http://scoregolf.com/blog/rick-young/a-shark-infested-golf-world/

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Post by GPB Sat 10 Dec 2016, 4:45 pm

Someone is asleep at the pgatour website.

Cannot find the Father/Son leaderboard anywhere on the website.

PGATour leaderboard goes to the Shark Shootout

Banner Leaderboard at Pgatour Champions goes to last years Q-School.

The Red Button Leaderboard goes to last year's leaderboard where the Wadkins won.

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Post by robopz Sat 10 Dec 2016, 5:52 pm

GPB wrote:Someone is asleep at the pgatour website.

Cannot find the Father/Son leaderboard anywhere on the website.

PGATour leaderboard goes to the Shark Shootout

Banner Leaderboard at Pgatour Champions goes to last years Q-School.

The Red Button Leaderboard goes to last year's leaderboard where the Wadkins won.
Guess that pretty much indicates where these events rate on the Tour's pecking order.  PGA Tour participates with the WC TV contract, which is probably why they provide the scoring, rules, etc for that one.  

Not sure how or if the PGAT participates in either the PNC or Shark contracts. I know PGAT's Dillard Pruitt is there as a rules guy for the Shark. Not sure if that's by contract with the PGAT or maybe an "outside job" for him this week.  But I did notice via the internals that PGAT has at least a limited media involvement with the Shark Shootout... Dave Senko is the Tour guy there this week (but no local "tournament numbers" to contact him like would be normal most weeks, only his cell).  But he is putting out round by round notes and stuff like PGA Tour media would do on a normal week.

Apparently no PGAT media involvement in the PNC I can see... at least not enough to list a PGAT Media guy involved... nor do I know who would be doing the officiating.  It does seem that if they had a scoreboard last year though... they'd be having one this year.

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Post by GPB Sat 10 Dec 2016, 6:21 pm

robopz wrote:
GPB wrote:Someone is asleep at the pgatour website.

Cannot find the Father/Son leaderboard anywhere on the website.

PGATour leaderboard goes to the Shark Shootout

Banner Leaderboard at Pgatour Champions goes to last years Q-School.

The Red Button Leaderboard goes to last year's leaderboard where the Wadkins won.
Guess that pretty much indicates where these events rate on the Tour's pecking order.  PGA Tour participates with the WC TV contract, which is probably why they provide the scoring, rules, etc for that one.  

Not sure how or if the PGAT participates in either the PNC or Shark contracts. I know PGAT's Dillard Pruitt is there as a rules guy for the Shark. Not sure if that's by contract with the PGAT or maybe an "outside job" for him this week.  But I did notice via the internals that PGAT has at least a limited media involvement with the Shark Shootout... Dave Senko is the Tour guy there this week (but no local "tournament numbers" to contact him like would be normal most weeks, only his cell).  But he is putting out round by round notes and stuff like PGA Tour media would do on a normal week.

Apparently no PGAT media involvement in the PNC I can see... at least not enough to list a PGAT Media guy involved... nor do I know who would be doing the officiating.  It does seem that if they had a scoreboard last year though... they'd be having one this year.

I couldn't find any tee times either.

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Post by GPB Sat 10 Dec 2016, 6:36 pm

Wonder if it is a coincidence that Norman is attempting his latest coup after Tim Finchem retired.

He still better be carrying a pretty big stick.

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