PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside: Notes from the Ballwasher

First topic message reminder :

1).That's where we are this week, for the second week running after Mayakoba's beachside beauty - which is no way to describe winner Pat Perez. Quite the return from injury for Perez, long regarded as one of the Tour's premier "ball strikers" - if he was anywhere close as good between the ears as he is with his irons, he'd win five times a year, said Johnny Miller, or words to that effect anyway. Almost a shame he won as his combustible self-destruction act is quite something to behold.
And he's the third Mayakoba winner in a row to break a victory drought following Charley Hoffman and Graeme McDowell.

2).We travel this week to the Golden Isles of Georgia and the two courses that make up the venue for the RSM (formerly McGladrey) Classic. 18 holes each at the Plantation Course and Seaside Course, then 36 weekend holes at Seaside - a Harry Colt design originally, and a beautiful setting which will be graced by equally beautiful weather. These "Isles" are popular destinations for Tour players to live and practice, led by Davis Love and joined by Kuchar, Zach Johnson and several others.

3).A lot has happened in the past ten days. Obviously.
We all know the Ugly (not to say vulgar, racist, misogynistic, isolationist) which evolved into the Bad (very bad, tremendously bad), and was roundly welcomed by Pros from all US Tours and broadcast booths.
But there's been some good as well, in the world of Golf at least.

4).With impeccable timing, the Rolex Series for the European Tour was introduced, with the promise of at least one more tournament (France?) to be added to the seven already announced. Not sure we know all the details yet, and the ramifications for PGA Tour members (including South Africans) have yet to be established, but this can't be anything other than terrific news for the E.T.

5).Don't know whether this is good or what, but the reformatting of the Zurich Classic in New Orleans next April seems to beg more questions than it answers, not least any rationale surrounding owgr points (it seems none will be awarded) and how they're going to fill the field. And at a venue, New Orleans, that often experiences an untimely monsoon season to coincide with the tournament, how are they going to manage 160 golfers playing four-balls on the Friday?

6).Meanwhile, the LPGA seems interested in acquiring the Ladies European Tour and using it as feeder for its own Tour. Not sure how that will go down.

7).More positive news for European Seniors is that its new "Head" man, Dave McLaren, is laying out plans to increase the number of tournaments and raise prize money, hopefully within a couple of years. Don't expect Europe's Seniors to reach the kind of wealth that Bernhard Langer has achieved on the Champions Tour (almost $21M and counting), but anything to achieve stability would be welcomed. Meanwhile, the likes of Barry Lane and Van der Velde are competing here in Champions Tour Q-School (both leading in their respective venues after Round 1), hoping to join the likes of Langer, Montgomerie, Mechanic, Broadhurst, Woosie, Lyle and, when he feels fit to compete, Olazabal.

8).This time last year, Graeme McDowell travelled to the Seaside with a Mayakoba win under his belt and proceeded to finish third. Strange, then, that's he's not in this week's field, especially disappointing after three superb rounds last week. Luke Donald will be playing, trying to emerge from the wreckage of his career - a couple of runner-up finishes last year but nothing to suggest he'll be back at the top anytime soon. But these courses might suit him.

9).It's a sad commentary on the state of Australian Golf that last year's Aussie Open Champ, Matt Jones, is playing the RSM/McGladrey rather than defending his title. Admittedly he needs all the starts he can get after mysteriously taking last season just easy enough that he narrowly lost his card, but really . . . . . . . .

10).No PGA Tour action next week, even though Thanksgiving has been postponed in most US homes for four years. There IS a World Cup in Australia, plus Champions Tour and web.com Q-Schools in the next three weeks, but the Ballwasher is pretty clogged up with fallen leaves and season-ending debris, so only sporadic musings until January. Merry Christmas!

Interesting GPB, how does tapping down a pitchmark with the sole of your putter work? Is that testing the surface?

Really not sure how you could gain anything from "roughening or scraping the surface"
Sometimes golf really has some barmy rules.

I'd been told that wiping your ball on the green wasn't allowed but that it had changed and now is? Although reading that it sounds like it wouldn't still be permitted (not that I do anyway - but I have seen someone pulled for it)

Are you allowed to wipe your behind with the rules book then?

I think you're still allowed to gozz in the hole though?

You'd have to be some sort of moronic pedant to pull someone up for that.
Same with the old spike mark rule. I just hate that. What's the point?

Ask Dyson the cheating c*nt.

Obviously it's against the rules, but don't see how it's any different to repairing a pitchmark.

Far too many rules in golf

Sad to see Peter Senior "claim" to call it quits. He just won the Aussie Masters last fall.

Can't believe he won the Aussie Triple Crown, after age 50, but despite playing a near full time scjhedule, could never win a PGATour Champions event. Lots of close calls, however.

He has had very good career. Not sure if he will ever get in the World Golf Hall of Fame but he should be considered.

Hope he recovers from whatever that ails him and he will reconsider playing Aussie Tournaments again.

super_realist wrote:Obviously it's against the rules, but don't see how it's any different to repairing a pitchmark.

Far too many rules in golf

Repairing a pitch mark is damage to the green. rubbing your hand (or putter) is testing the surface, checking for grain?

Have you ever played bermuda greens? Next time you, drag your putter lightly across the green. If the putter jumps up and down, you are going into the grain, if drags smoothly, you are with the grain.

Same effect on other green surfaces but not as much.

A spike mark is damage to the green too, why is a pitchmark any different to a spike mark?

The USGA and R/A in their infinite wisdom have determine them to be different.

1. If you were able to tap down spike marks, you could literally tap down a trough to the hole.

2. And it would unduly slow down play.

I suppose that's how they back out of it, but they'd be better just banning spikes altogether, you simply don't need them.

super_realist wrote:I suppose that's how they back out of it, but they'd be better just banning spikes altogether, you simply don't need them.

Aren't you the guy that just posted this?

???? wrote:Far too many rules in golf

GPB wrote:

super_realist wrote:I suppose that's how they back out of it, but they'd be better just banning spikes altogether, you simply don't need them.

Aren't you the guy that just posted this?

???? wrote:Far too many rules in golf

You have me there.

Sometimes you have to make rules to get rid of rules.
You could discard so many pointless rules by introducing  a few simple and sensible ones, but I suppose you'd be doing a few dozen old farts out of a job and that wouldn't do in the stuffy world of golf.

GPB wrote:I think Spieth committed a rules violation on the third green in round 2

After leaving his birdie putt short, he dragged his putter on the green in utter disgust, before tapping in

That's testing the surface, IMO.  and it is not the first time I have seen him do it.

GPB... I didn't see the thing with Spieth on #3 you mention, but if it's as you described it wouldn't be a penalty.

The applicable rule is 16/1/d. Testing Surface
During the stipulated round, a player must not test the surface of any putting green by rolling a ball or roughening or scraping the surface.

From the strict reading of that it sounds like it might be a violation, but when reading the decisions on testing the surface, even though the exact thing you describe isn't mentioned, it's pretty clear there has to be "intent to test the surface" in various other decisions.  What you are describing doesn't seem to be any intent to test the surface.     You can see some "not testing" situations starting here... http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!decision-16,d16-1d-1

But speaking of rules in general and attempts to simplify them... why should testing a green be a violation anyway? Seems to me as long as the testing doesn't alter the characteristics of the green and thus affect other players... then SO WHAT... WHY should we care?

super_realist wrote:Sometimes you have to make rules to get rid of rules.
You could discard so many pointless rules by introducing  a few simple and sensible ones, but I suppose you'd be doing a few dozen old farts out of a job and that wouldn't do in the stuffy world of golf.

Agree with that much.... Will be interesting to see what they might have "done away with" in this rule simplification thing they're going through. Isn't that supposed to be out for review next summer or something?

Anna Nordqvist didn't intend to ground her club in that fairway bunker at the USWO playoff against Brittany Lang, but she still got dinged with a penalty.

Dustin Johnson didn't intend to move that ball at Oakmont. He still got dinged.

IMO, what Spieth did was more egregious than either the Nordqvist or Johnson incidents.

I don't think Spieth intended to cheat, but what he did could possibly give him an advantage, even it was subconsciously or subliminally. If he finished putting on the hole, then no, no advantage.

Its something that I have seen him do before and I don 't think he should be doing it.

robopz wrote:
But speaking of rules in general and attempts to simplify them... why should testing a green be a violation anyway?  Seems to me as long as the testing doesn't alter the characteristics of the green and thus affect other players... then SO WHAT... WHY should we care?

How would dragging a putter against the grain NOT alter the characteristics.

Try dragging your hand against the grain on the spine of your pet dog (or cat) and see how it alters its characteristics?

A bit ridicolous you aren't allowed to test the greens when the course guides the players use are more detailed than the genome map of a fruit fly.

GPB wrote:Anna Nordqvist didn't intend to ground her club in that fairway bunker at the USWO playoff against Brittany Lang, but she still got dinged with a penalty.

Dustin Johnson didn't intend to move that ball at Oakmont.  He still got dinged.

IMO, what Spieth did was more egregious than either the Nordqvist or Johnson incidents.

I don't think Spieth intended to cheat, but what he did could possibly give him an advantage, even it was subconsciously or subliminally.  If he finished putting on the hole, then no, no advantage.

Its something that I have seen him do before and I don 't think he should be doing it.  

rules and decisions regarding testing the surface of a green are different than for grounding clubs in bunkers or hazards or causing a ball to move at address. The decisions re testing the surface on a green allow for incidental non intentional actions. Read the decisions at the link I provided in my prior post and see for yourself.

 It can be a penalty only if the rules and decisions say it's a penalty, in the case as you describe it, it simply is not a penalty regardless if someone thinks it should be or not.

Again... I didn't see it.... but as you describe it, it doesn't sound like something I think he SHOULD be doing either. But that doesn't mean it rises to the level of a rules violation.

GPB wrote:Try dragging your hand against the grain on the spine of your pet dog (or cat) and see how it alters its characteristics?

I would agree that dragging your hand against the grain of your dog or cat's fur prior to putting off your pet's back would alter the characteristics of the putting surface....

robopz wrote:
rules and decisions regarding testing the surface of a green are different than for grounding clubs in bunkers or hazards or causing a ball to move at address. The decisions re testing the surface on a green allow for incidental non intentional actions. Read the decisions at the link I provided in my prior post and see for yourself.

 It can be a penalty only if the rules and decisions say it's a penalty, in the case as you describe it, it simply is not a penalty regardless if someone thinks it should be or not.

Robo: I did read it, I just don't buy it. IMO, His action was not unintentional. I just don't see how you can say it was unintentional. He did it purposely, upset that he left the putt short. He would not have done it if he made the putt or even got the putt to the hole.

That is like saying a thrown club after a bad drive. Tell that to the guy that gets hit by the thrown club

And I think it is advantageous to him, whether he consciously realizes it or not.

This what I would consider incidental and unintentional

Bending over to mark your ball and using a putter as crutch to help your balance. The putter head slips and your palm of hand touches the green to regain balance.

You know that I am a fan of Spieth, but IMO, this a breach in the rules. And I think you probably agree with that he should not be doing it. Not only do I think it is a rule breach, I don't think it a good look.

Disclaimer. I did not see a replay, and my DVR malfunctioned so I didn't get a great look. His putter might not have been touching the green.

==========

Meanwhile in Japan....Smylie and Brooks and Yuta Ikeda are tied for the lead after 36 holes, with J.T. tied for 5th, two shots behind.

Harold Varner the 3rd is T13, 4 shots behind. Yes that is how he is listed on the JPGA scoreboard. Harold Varner the 3rd. Emiliano is two more shots behind at T23rd

Yuta Ikeda, ranked #55, is in position to get a Masters invite by being in the Top 50 at year end. He is the 2nd highest ranked Japanese player. Hideto Tanihara is ranked 59th and Tied for 5th. K.T. Kim ranked 56th and tied for 23rd.

GPB.... OK... I just had to go see what you were talking about.  I assume the situation you're talking about is on the 4th green not 3rd... Where he takes a stroke in frustration after missing the birdie putt... WOW.... how you can make a case that's intentionally testing the surface of the green is beyond me... sheesh...

But after looking at it and seeing it for myself... NO... I take it back.   I don't agree that he shouldn't be doing it.  I saw absolutely nothing wrong with what he did on any level, rules wise, etiquette wise, or otherwise...

PS... this has absolutely NOTHING to do with the player involved, regardless if I'm a fan of his or not...

Lets say for example you were chipping on the green, perfectly within the rules, and you take practice swings, but take a divot, is that testing the surface?

Super broadcast by the Golf Channel today - a minimum of Craig Perks and the other guys were excellent, including some very interesting/engaging interviews, Camilo, Poults and the always entertaining Charlie Howell.

Poults in with a very good round and was asked about the Ryder Cup - basically said that when Kaymer, Westwood and Willett only earn one point between them you're not going to win. Said the qualification system might get tweaked, said Casey & Knox would have strengthened the team was was also adamant guys have got to support the European Tour. He's often defensive on US TV but seemed to be really enjoying the conversation. Good interviewers make a yuuuge difference.

Luke also in for the weekend, Power too, but no pay-day for Gonzo and he might start to find it tricky to play many tournaments for the next few months.

super_realist wrote:Lets say for example you were chipping on the green, perfectly within the rules, and you take practice swings, but take a divot, is that testing the surface?

You can create hypothetical questions until the Sheep come home.

kwinigolfer wrote:Super broadcast by the Golf Channel today....

IMO Curt Byrum is a tremendously under appreciated talent. I keep hoping to see him moved up to their "big league" coverage more often...

super_realist wrote:Lets say for example you were chipping on the green, perfectly within the rules, and you take practice swings, but take a divot, is that testing the surface?

Interesting question. Reading the language of both the rule and decisions, I could see how just the act of making a practice chipping swing that contacts the surface of the green (taking a divot or not) could be construed as "testing the surface". BUT.... I've seen it often enough, and am not aware of any situation where that's ever been called a penalty... so I assume it's OK.

I like chipping on greens because it annoys people who think it's "bad etiquette"

robo,
Agree, but Gogel, Lerner & Big are also superb and Savaricus does excellent soundbite interviews.

kwinigolfer wrote:robo,
Agree, but Gogel, Lerner & Big are also superb and Savaricus does excellent soundbite interviews.

agree with all that as well. IMO Savaricus is as much a solid as I find Ryan Burr a complete twit. Lerner is just a pro's pro.

Ryan Burr IS a complete twit.
But they have a good crew this week, at least a match for most network crews.

Battle of Arizona vs Texas going on down under. Scottsdale neighbors Ogilvy and Baddeley in the final pairing for the final round, with Spieth and fellow DFW area resident Pampling following in the next two groups.  4 Australian Open titles between Bands (2), Ogilvy and Spieth.  Good stuff.

PS.... And despite Luck spitting the bit yesterday... Some great young talent coming out of the region of late. Current low am Min Woo Lee is the brother of LPGA star Minjee Lee. And we'll see Luck in next year's Masters due to his US Am and Asian Amateur wins.

10% of the RSM field attended Georgia or GT (GPB!). Plus a few Clemmies.

4 of the Techies are in the top 7 as of 1:05 pm Sea Island time.

None of the UGA's are in the Top 7.

THWG (google it)

Sweet... Jordan Spieth grinds out a gut check win in Australian Open. ...

Good for Spieth.  He will finish the year in the OWGR Top 5.  If he beats Stenson in the HWC, he will likely be #4 at year end.

Koepka well inside the Top 20 after his win in Japan.  Yuta Ikeda, with a solo 2nd likely will finish the year in the Top 50.  Hideto Tanihara T6th barely makes a dent.

Almost every player around the Top 50 bubble played this week and many of them played well to get well inside the top 50.  Westwood, Kjeldsen, Ikeda, Fitz, Weisberger.  Jaidee is out of the Top 50 and Pieters is very vulnerable (of those not already invited to Augusta).

Pieters better find another tournament to play in 2016 if he want to get that invite to Augusta.


Looks like Jaidee is getting pushed out of the Top 50 and Pieters is going to drop to #50.

Edit: Fitz inside the Top 30 after winning the Dubai Tournament.

Probably one of the more upheaving (made that word up I think) weekends the owgr's have seen in a long time. Some guys are going to wake up amazed at how far they've fallen. Leishman dropped five places out of last week's Top 50 and Thongchai could easily do the same this week.
Looks like lw1 will slip a couple of places, but most ET players on the Masters bubble already have their place. Except Pieters, as you say. Time for him to put that right in Jan/Feb.
Masters invite assured for Wiesberger.

It's going to be a cold morning beside the Seaside for RSM contenders. Extra warm bacon in their butties and JD in their coffee.
The cooler temps might make the course play slightly longer but not as breezy as for Round 3.

Are Matty Fitz & Cam Smith the two most baby-faced top golfers around? Bank on Smith to have a fine year ahead of him.

kwinigolfer wrote:Are Matty Fitz & Cam Smith the two most baby-faced top golfers around? Bank on Smith to have a fine year ahead of him.

Could be... And I like the looks of Cam Smith as well... He had a bit of the "deer in the headlights" look in the playoff, but he should be better for the experience.

GPB wrote:Looks like Jaidee is getting pushed out of the Top 50 and Pieters is going to drop to #50.

 Good update... thanks.

Jaidee is among the early announced entries for Hong Kong, so he's still got a shot of getting back in top-50. Hend and Aphibarnrat as well.

Rose, Willett, Rafa, Poulter, and MAJ also among early commitments.

Also notice Reed is listed for Hong Kong. Guess he's more serious about meeting his "5" obligation this time around, and making that start helps him in more ways than one. NO PGAT Conflicting Event Release (CER) needed to play that week, so he'll need only 4 more CER's to meet his ET obligation, and he'll get that via 20 PGAT starts. That takes a lot of pressure off his schedule.  

http://ubshkopen.com/on-course/players/

robopz wrote:Sweet... Jordan Spieth grinds out a gut check win in Australian Open. ...

If most players had won this, the likes of Mac would be quick to point out how weak the field is, if it's Gordon Spieth though, it's a superb win.

super_realist wrote:

robopz wrote:Sweet... Jordan Spieth grinds out a gut check win in Australian Open. ...

If most players had won this, the likes of Mac would be quick to point out how weak the field is, if it's Gordon Spieth though, it's a superb win.

Don't know about Mac... but while I'm certainly a Spieth fan, I would like to think I'm objective enough I would have said the same thing about anybody winning the same way.... but admittedly, I probably wouldn't have stayed up that late to know how the winner won if it weren't for Spieth in the field... :-)

Watching Mackenzie Hughes this week for the first time - he has a little hint of the Spieth demeanour about him, whilst things are going well anyway. Impressive.

Great win in Florida by Charley Hull. First of many? Seems like she's been around for ages, but still only 20.

kwinigolfer wrote:Great win in Florida by Charley Hull. First of many? Seems like she's been around for ages, but still only 20.

Not the season result Lydia Ko was looking for... Ariya aces her out on POY and the CME thing... and Chun nosed her out by like a thousandth in the Vare Trophy (LPGA Vardon equiv) But gotta give Lydia props for waiting around and congratulating Ariya and her entire family after it was all said and done... Class act by the young lady there....

Lovely light for the 5 man play off.

Yeah! Was just saying!! Gorgeous place.
Love watching 5-somes on Tour.

Wow! Billy Horschel misses a two footer to drop out. Norlander dodges a bullet as he was furthest away after two.

That was the Billy Horschel factor that US Ryder Cup task forces have been so anxious to capture.
Too bad, Billy Ho is great to follow and good for golf.