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Scotland v Georgia, 26 November

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Post by George Carlin Sun 20 Nov 2016, 6:43 am

First topic message reminder :

Scotland v Georgia, 26 November - Page 3 Mini_s10     Scotland v Georgia, 26 November - Page 3 Georgi10
SCOTLAND v GEORGIA
26 November 2016
KO: 14:30 GMT
Rugby Park, Kilmarnock

Live on [BBC Two]

Referee: Matthew Carley (England)
Assistant referees: Mathieu Raynal (France), Dan Jones (Wales)
TMO: Simon McDowell (Ireland)

A. Head to Head

1 Played 1
1 Won 0
0 Drawn 0
0 Lost 1
15 Points 6

B. Recent Form

14 September 2011
Scotland 15–6 Georgia
Rugby Park Stadium, Invercargill

C. TEAMS:

SCOTLAND 
Scotland v Georgia, 26 November - Page 3 Scotti11
15 Stuart Hogg, 14 Sean Maitland, 13 Mark Bennett, 12 Alex Dunbar, 11 Tommy Seymour, 10 Finn Russell, 9 Greig Laidlaw(c), 8 Ryan Wilson, 7 Hamish Watson, 6 Rob Harley, 5 Jonny Gray, 4 Richie Gray, 3 Zander Fagerson, 2 Ross Ford, 1 Allan Dell

Replacements: 16 Fraser Brown, 17 Alex Allan, 18 Moray Low, 19 Grant Gilchrist, 20 John Barclay, 21 Ali Price, 22 Pete Horne, 23 Rory Hughes

GEORGIA
Scotland v Georgia, 26 November - Page 3 Bear10
15 Merab Kvirikashvili, 14 Giorgi Aptsiauri, 13 Merab Sharikadze, 12 Tamaz Mtchedlidze, 11 Sandro Todua, 10 Lasha Malaghuradze, 9 Vasil Lobzhanidze, 8 Beka Bitsadze, 7 Mamuka Gorgodze(c), 6 Vito Kolelishvili, 5 Giorgi Nemsadze, 4 Kote Mikautadze, 3 Levan Chilachava, 2 Jaba Bregvadze, 1 Mikheil Nariashvili

Replacements: 16 Badri Alkhazashvili, 17 Kakha Asieshvili, 18 Dudu Kubriashvili, 19 Lasha Lomidze, 20 Giorgi Tkhilaishvili, 21 Giorgi Begadze, 22 Beka Tsiklauri, 23 Shalva Sutiashvili

***

In the recent international series, Georgia posted the following results, having travelled to the Pacific Islands for the first time:

- 11 June 2016: Samoa 19 - 19 Georgia (Apia Park, Samoa)
- 18 June 2016: Tonga 20 - 23 Georgia (Suva, Fiji)
- 24 June 2016: Fiji 3 - 14 Georgia (Suva, Fiji)
- 12 November 2016: Georgia 22−28 Japan
- 19 November 2016: Georgia 20–16 Samoa

This now means that:

- Georgia have now beaten all of the Tier 2 rugby nations (Fiji, Japan, Samoa, Tonga, Canada, USA, Uruguay, Namibia, Portugal, Romania, Russia and Spain)
- Georgia are now ranked 11th in the world
- This ranks them higher than Japan, Italy, Samoa, Tonga and the USA
- Georgia has now played in 4 RWCs and has automatically qualified for Japan 2019
- They have now won the European Nations Cup (i.e. the Tier 2 version of the 6 Nations) nine times in 2001, 2008, 2009, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016.


Last edited by George Carlin on Sun 27 Nov 2016, 6:39 am; edited 2 times in total
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Post by RDW Thu 24 Nov 2016, 9:40 am

Hazel Sapling wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if Cotter beefs up the backrow and puts Wilson at 7 or something like that, in an effort to counteract the massive Georgian pack.

It was would harsh on Watson but he has played 80 minutes of the last two games and they have been highly physical - fresh legs might be required.   Just not Wilson at 7!

If you go that way RDW, why not start Barclay at 7 with Bradbury at 6 and CDP at 8? Watson can bench for when the Georgians tire. Wilson can go play for Glasgow (who are short of players in the pack). Strauss can as well. Anyway both Glasgow and Scotland teams out in 2.5 hours.


That would make sense and I would be happy with that - CDP is exactly the kind of physical specimen we need against the massive Georgians, even if it is his first cap.

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Post by tigertattie Thu 24 Nov 2016, 10:18 am

If you are resting Watson then why isn't Barclay getting rested?

just saying!

Also, against the Georgians it may be that the Scott Johnson 3 8s approach is deployed

6. CDP
7. Wilson
8. Strauss

SJ would jizz man!
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Post by RDW Thu 24 Nov 2016, 10:26 am

tigertattie wrote:If you are resting Watson then why isn't Barclay getting rested?

Well Barclay is a very experienced international whereas Watson has had a big couple of weeks both mentally and physically - I wouldn't mind if either of those were at 7 and I'm sure both are physically ready for it but I don't think it would do Watson's long term chances any harm if he wasn't picked. I'm sure he'll want to play though!

Plus with Hardie out Watson is going to get a lot of gametime for Edinburgh leading up to the 6N - he needs to be managed well.

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Post by reallybored Thu 24 Nov 2016, 10:29 am

Would be very disappointed if Bradbury didn't get another run.

Hope Bennett gets a chance if Jones is injured, I think he looks fresher than he did last season.

Be great for Price to get some game time.

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Post by nickj Thu 24 Nov 2016, 10:41 am

Alistair Reid has this probable line-up and he's generally on the button: S Hogg (Glasgow Warriors); S Maitland (Saracens), M Bennett (Glasgow Warriors), A Dunbar (Glasgow Warriors), T Seymour (Glasgow Warriors); F Russell (Glasgow Warriors), G Laidlaw (Gloucester); A Dell (Edinburgh), R Ford (Edinburgh), Z Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors), R Gray (Toulouse), J Gray (Glasgow Warriors), J Barclay (Scarlets), H Watson (Edinburgh), R Wilson (Glasgow Warriors).

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Post by tigertattie Thu 24 Nov 2016, 10:43 am

Fair call RDW!

Bradbury, CDP, Barclay - can't say that's too shabby a backrow at all!

Hurry up with the team announcement!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama Thu 24 Nov 2016, 10:50 am

Irksome. Bradbury should be in the back row, of all the games to play him in surely this one makes the most sense? Georgia may have a big pack, but they are a considerably worse side than Argentina and Bradbury is a big, physical lad!

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Post by EST Thu 24 Nov 2016, 11:04 am

If that is the backrow, then I will be pretty disappointed.

I have no idea how Wilson manages to hang on in there. I would love to hear Cotter's opinion on it, as I honestly can't see what he brings to the international party.


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Post by EWT Spoons Thu 24 Nov 2016, 11:49 am

Harley & Wilson aren't included in the Glasgow squad for their game this weekend.....

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Post by EWT Spoons Thu 24 Nov 2016, 12:41 pm

Well the backrow was right, Harley, Watson & Wilson are playing

1. Dell
2. Ford
3. Fagerson
4. Gray
5. Gray
6 Harley
7. Waston
8 Wilson
9. Laidlaw
10 Russell
11. Seymour
12. Dunbar
13. Bennett
14. Maitland
15. Hogg


subs
16 Brown
17 Allan
18 Low
19 Gilchrist
20 Barclay
21 Price
22 Horne
23 Hughes

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Post by RDW Thu 24 Nov 2016, 12:46 pm

I have no real issues with Harley at 6 for this game as his tight game is very good - exactly where Georgia will target us.

It is a shame that Bradbury has been dropped straight out though.

And Ryan Wilson - I can't help but think a bulkier 8 is needed against Georgia.

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Post by Hazel Sapling Thu 24 Nov 2016, 12:49 pm

Edinburgh ought to have a good team out vs the Dragons then if CDP and Bradbury are returning to them after being jilted for Harley and Wilson. Back row is disappointing. Beyond that, I am happy. The bench is about as good as it can be considering the squad.


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Post by EST Thu 24 Nov 2016, 12:49 pm

Quite what Bradbury did wrong to be hooked at 50 mins and then left out of this game is beyond me. Despite the continued selection of Watson at 7, which is deserved, that backrow doesn't achieve much. We know what both Wilson and Harley can do - neither of them are good enough to take us to the next level. Why didn't we include CDP, at least on the bench, to offer some ball carrying threat?

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Post by BigGee Thu 24 Nov 2016, 12:52 pm

Well much as predicted, other than the backrow.

Hard to begrudge Rob Harley his cap but you do feel that this Scotland side are moving a little bit beyond what he brings to the table now, unless he really has added a carrying element to his game.

One can only assume that it is a horses for courses selection, as the Georgia pack are likely to keep coming hard at us and we need someone who will continuously knock them down. If that is the case then RH is certainly our man.

Bradbury is very unlucky not to get another game, but he has certainly got a taste now and will be back for more. It was maybe a tournament to soon for CDP, who really needs to start doing it week in week out for Edinburgh again before he gets his first cap.

Goodness me though, if all our backrowers are fit and healthy come 6N time, it is going to be one mare of a selection conundrum. Still good problems to have.

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Post by cakeordeath Thu 24 Nov 2016, 12:54 pm

Disappointed with the pack. I would like to have seen CDP and Bradbury play. Otherwise not not unhappy. I think Hughes should get some game time.

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Post by cakeordeath Thu 24 Nov 2016, 12:56 pm

BigGee wrote:Well much as predicted, other than the backrow.

Hard to begrudge Rob Harley his cap but you do feel that this Scotland side are moving a little bit beyond what he brings to the table now, unless he really has added a carrying element to his game.

One can only assume that it is a horses for courses selection, as the Georgia pack are likely to keep coming hard at us and we need someone who will continuously knock them down. If that is the case then RH is certainly our man.

Bradbury is very unlucky not to get another game, but he has certainly got a taste now and will be back for more. It was maybe a tournament to soon for CDP, who really needs to start doing it week in week out for Edinburgh again before he gets his first cap.

Goodness me though, if all our backrowers are fit and healthy come 6N time, it is going to be one mare of a selection conundrum. Still good problems to have.

The problem is these are exactly the type of games we should be blooding new players. Next stop 6 Nations.

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Post by cakeordeath Thu 24 Nov 2016, 12:57 pm

As for Wilson, he isn't even the best 8 at Glasgow

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Post by BigGee Thu 24 Nov 2016, 12:58 pm

Hopefully all the subs will get a run out this time, Hughes and price both deserve it. For that to happen though, I imagine we will be needing a bit of a cushion. If it is another tight game, I am not so sure.

We should be 10 points better than Georgia though, for all their improvements. It is hard to see them liking a fast open game on the artificial pitch. We just need to make sure we play it like that.

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Post by EST Thu 24 Nov 2016, 1:03 pm

BigGee wrote:Well much as predicted, other than the backrow.

Hard to begrudge Rob Harley his cap but you do feel that this Scotland side are moving a little bit beyond what he brings to the table now, unless he really has added a carrying element to his game.

One can only assume that it is a horses for courses selection, as the Georgia pack are likely to keep coming hard at us and we need someone who will continuously knock them down. If that is the case then RH is certainly our man.

Bradbury is very unlucky not to get another game, but he has certainly got a taste now and will be back for more. It was maybe a tournament to soon for CDP, who really needs to start doing it week in week out for Edinburgh again before he gets his first cap.

Goodness me though, if all our backrowers are fit and healthy come 6N time, it is going to be one mare of a selection conundrum. Still good problems to have.

The thing is, CDP has got over 60 odd caps for Edinburgh now - he has proved during this time that he is a better player than both Wilson and Harley. I understand he hasn't been fit recently, but this is at home against Georgia, yes a physical and improving team, but surely the best game in the calendar to get him involved?

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Post by BigGee Thu 24 Nov 2016, 1:04 pm

cakeordeath wrote:As for Wilson, he isn't even the best 8 at Glasgow

Well Strauss is a better player when he is fit and playing well, but we have only really seen that in small doses this year. Wilson plays well week in, week out for Glasgow, always empties the tank. I agree though that he is not the long term answer to Scotland's No.8 issue.

Strauss has not really made an overwhelming claim for the jersey yet, despite having had a few chances. Both he and CDP need to consolidate their club form over the next few months and not get injured. Come 6N time, then hopefully one of them will step up. At the moment I can see why he is probably persisting with Wilson.

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Post by cakeordeath Thu 24 Nov 2016, 1:06 pm

BigGee wrote:
cakeordeath wrote:As for Wilson, he isn't even the best 8 at Glasgow

Well Strauss is a better player when he is fit and playing well, but we have only really seen that in small doses this year. Wilson plays well week in, week out for Glasgow, always empties the tank. I agree though that he is not the long term answer to Scotland's No.8 issue.

Strauss has not really made an overwhelming claim for the jersey yet, despite having had a few chances. Both he and CDP need to consolidate their club form over the next few months and not get injured. Come 6N time, then hopefully one of them will step up. At the moment I can see why he is probably persisting with Wilson.

I kinda agree with you, but I still think a misfiring Strauss is better than Wilson in form*

I may have a man crush on his beard, so I am probably not subjective

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Post by BigGee Thu 24 Nov 2016, 1:10 pm

EST wrote:
BigGee wrote:Well much as predicted, other than the backrow.

Hard to begrudge Rob Harley his cap but you do feel that this Scotland side are moving a little bit beyond what he brings to the table now, unless he really has added a carrying element to his game.

One can only assume that it is a horses for courses selection, as the Georgia pack are likely to keep coming hard at us and we need someone who will continuously knock them down. If that is the case then RH is certainly our man.

Bradbury is very unlucky not to get another game, but he has certainly got a taste now and will be back for more. It was maybe a tournament to soon for CDP, who really needs to start doing it week in week out for Edinburgh again before he gets his first cap.

Goodness me though, if all our backrowers are fit and healthy come 6N time, it is going to be one mare of a selection conundrum. Still good problems to have.

The thing is, CDP has got over 60 odd caps for Edinburgh now - he has proved during this time that he is a better player than both Wilson and Harley.  I understand he hasn't been fit recently, but this is at home against Georgia, yes a physical and improving team, but surely the best game in the calendar to get him involved?

If you are comparing him to Wilson, then yes, he does what he does but better. Harley is a very different kind of player, you won't find him out on the wing waiting for a pass and that does look like a specific selection for this game. Harley doing the dirty work may allow Watson to play the game he is capable of.

I think CDP fitness has counted against him. I don't think he has completed a single game for Edinburgh this season and has looked well off the pace in some of the ones he has played. His time will come.

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Post by MacKnocked-on Thu 24 Nov 2016, 1:11 pm

Wilson will probably end up with a 100 caps at this rate

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Post by tigertattie Thu 24 Nov 2016, 1:19 pm

CDP may well have his fitness questioned, but why in the name of all that is holy has Bradbury been completely dropped form the squad?

Confidence knocker!!!!!

Sure, bring in Harley if you need. But drop feckin Wilson and have Barclay starting at 8 with Bradbury on the bench!!!!
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Post by EST Thu 24 Nov 2016, 1:21 pm

BigGee wrote:
EST wrote:
BigGee wrote:Well much as predicted, other than the backrow.

Hard to begrudge Rob Harley his cap but you do feel that this Scotland side are moving a little bit beyond what he brings to the table now, unless he really has added a carrying element to his game.

One can only assume that it is a horses for courses selection, as the Georgia pack are likely to keep coming hard at us and we need someone who will continuously knock them down. If that is the case then RH is certainly our man.

Bradbury is very unlucky not to get another game, but he has certainly got a taste now and will be back for more. It was maybe a tournament to soon for CDP, who really needs to start doing it week in week out for Edinburgh again before he gets his first cap.

Goodness me though, if all our backrowers are fit and healthy come 6N time, it is going to be one mare of a selection conundrum. Still good problems to have.

The thing is, CDP has got over 60 odd caps for Edinburgh now - he has proved during this time that he is a better player than both Wilson and Harley.  I understand he hasn't been fit recently, but this is at home against Georgia, yes a physical and improving team, but surely the best game in the calendar to get him involved?

If you are comparing him to Wilson, then yes, he does what he does but better. Harley is a very different kind of player, you won't find him out on the wing waiting for a pass and that does look like a specific selection for this game. Harley doing the dirty work may allow Watson to play the game he is capable of.

I think CDP fitness has counted against him. I don't think he has completed a single game for Edinburgh this season and has looked well off the pace in some of the ones he has played. His time will come.

True, I think Harley is a horses for courses selection, but a pretty negative one all the same. He tackles well, amazingly so really, but doesn't offer much impact in other facets of his game - lineout excluded. I have faith that Bradbury would have completed that role and offered some more go forward. As for CDP, you are probably right that his fitness has counted against him. Despite that, I would bet he offers more in his current condition than Wilson can fully fit.

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Post by George Carlin Thu 24 Nov 2016, 1:42 pm

24 NOV SCOTLAND ADD EXPERIENCE FOR RUGBY PARK RETURN

Head Coach Vern Cotter has added international experience to the Scotland side named to face Georgia at Rugby Park in Kilmarnock this Saturday (26 November, kick-off 2.30pm) – live on BBC.

The match will be the national team’s second venture to the Ayrshire ground, after defeating Tonga 37-12 at the home of Kilmarnock FC in November 2014.

Rugby Park boasts a World Rugby approved 3G pitch, and Scotland’s 2014 fixture at the venue was globally ground-breaking as the first international match involving a tier-one nation to be held on a fully-artificial surface.

Cotter said: “Our players are excited to be back in Kilmarnock and having the west country supporting us like they did two years ago will be great.

“The crowd’s enthusiasm will be key to getting a good performance against Georgia. The players feed off the energy from the stands, it’s one of these tangible things and really does help spur on the guys.”

There are five new faces in the starting line-up who add a further 125 caps to the side that overcame Argentina 19-16 in Edinburgh last weekend.

Centre Mark Bennett is the only change to the back division, with the Olympic silver medallist from Cumnock replacing the injured Huw Jones (foot) to confirm a homecoming to the Ayrshire ground.

It will be Bennett’s first game at the stadium, having missed the outings of both Scotland and Glasgow Warriors in previous years. It will be his first Scotland appearance since February.

Bennett will reform a familiar midfield partnership with clubmate Alex Dunbar in front of returning back-three players Stuart Hogg, Sean Maitland and Tommy Seymour.

The remaining changes occur in the pack, with cap centurion Ross Ford returning to the starting front-row alongside returning props Allan Dell and Zander Fagerson.

Lock Richie Gray has recovered from his suspected concussion to re-join brother Jonny in the second-row, while Rob Harley and Ryan Wilson come in to start in the back-row with the reinstated Hamish Watson.

The match will be Harley’s first start since the 2015 RBS 6 Nations.

Cotter added: “We’ve learned a lot from our previous Tests against Australia and Argentina and that’s what these games are about – learning what worked and what didn’t and making sure we improve with every game.

“Knowledge gained from our one-point loss to Australia and 83rd minute victory over Argentina will be important in negotiating Saturday’s game in the best way possible to get the win we want.

“Georgia are striving to be among the world’s best as they knock on the door of the top ten in the world rankings.

“We are expecting a typical Georgian game. They will be physical up front as they play a forwards-based game, however they are also developing their backs.”

Hooker Fraser Brown, lock Grant Gilchrist and John Barclay – who started last week’s game – are selected on the bench as consequence of the changes, while a further change to the replacements sees Rory Hughes selected in place of Tim Visser.

Scotland team to play Georgia at Rugby Park
Saturday 26 November (kick-off 2.30pm) – live on BBC

15 Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors) – 47 caps; 11 tries, 3 pens, 64 points

14 Sean Maitland (Saracens) – 25 caps; 4 tries, 20 points
13 Mark Bennett (Glasgow Warriors) – 16 caps; 6 tries, 30 points
12 Alex Dunbar (Glasgow Warriors) – 18 caps; 5 tries, 25 points
11 Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors) – 30 caps; 13 tries, 65 points

10 Finn Russell (Glasgow Warriors) – 21 caps; 2 tries, 3 cons, 1 pen, 19 points
9 Greig Laidlaw CAPTAIN (Gloucester) – 55 caps; 4 tries, 69 cons, 133 pens, 557 points

1 Allan Dell (Edinburgh Rugby) – 2 caps
2 Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby) – 101 caps; 2 tries, 10 points
3 Zander Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors) – 3 caps
4 Richie Gray (Toulouse) – 59 caps; 3 tries, 15 points
5 Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors) – 27 caps; 2 tries, 10 points
6 Rob Harley (Glasgow Warriors) – 18 caps; 1 try, 5 points
7 Hamish Watson (Edinburgh Rugby) – 4 caps
8 Ryan Wilson (Glasgow Warriors) – 22 caps

Substitutes
16 Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors) – 19 caps
17 Alex Allan (Glasgow Warriors) – 2 caps
18 Moray Low (Exeter Chiefs) – 36 caps
19 Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh Rugby) – 14 caps; 1 try, 5 points
20 John Barclay (Scarlets) – 54 caps; 4 tries, 20 points
21 Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors) – uncapped
22 Pete Horne (Glasgow Warriors) – 22 caps; 2 tries, 1 con, 1 pen, 15 points
23 Rory Hughes (Glasgow Warriors) – 1 cap

Unavailable through injury: Alasdair Dickinson (hamstring), John Hardie (ankle), Huw Jones (foot), Henry Pyrgos (knee).
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Post by tigertattie Thu 24 Nov 2016, 2:10 pm

Does Wilson have pictures of Cotter murdering small rabbits with his bare hands?

It's beyond me why he gets picked so often!

Barclay has had a good series! Bloomin leave him on there at 8!

Ryan Wilson........really..............

......... we'll be seeing peter horne starting one day too at this rate!
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Post by George Carlin Thu 24 Nov 2016, 2:39 pm

Apart from the Psychotic Crayola at 8, that's as good as we could put out really.

Delighted to see a specialist 6 who is a superb back of line jumper and can tackle all day - both things that we will need based on the past 2 rounds of matches.

I am presuming that Bradbury and Strauss were carrying knocks.

I will be peed if either of them appear for their clubs over the weekend.
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Post by RDW Thu 24 Nov 2016, 2:42 pm

Strauss is starting 8 for Glasgow!

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Post by tigertattie Thu 24 Nov 2016, 2:42 pm

George Carlin wrote:Apart from the Psychotic Crayola at 8, that's as good as we could put out really.

Delighted to see a specialist 6 who is a superb back of line jumper and can tackle all day - both things that we will need based on the past 2 rounds of matches.

I am presuming that Bradbury and Strauss were carrying knocks.

I will be peed if either of them appear for their clubs over the weekend.

Strauss is captaining the soap dodgers

Not seen the Edinburgh team yet!
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Post by IanBru Thu 24 Nov 2016, 2:49 pm

I'm very much a fan of Harley, and I'm quite happy he's been included to be honest. Everyone raves about Glasgow's attacking play, but against some very dangerous opponents with big packs, it's our defence which wins games - consider the games again Munster in 2014 (the semi-final) and Leicester this year: in both games, Harley's outstanding line speed and accuracy in the tackle ensured that the big opposition pack never built up any momentum and were constantly losing ground with every phase.

The scrum half inevitably loses patience and kicks the ball away, inviting counter attack from Hogg and Seymour. That's the ball game.
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Post by EST Thu 24 Nov 2016, 2:55 pm

IanBru wrote:I'm very much a fan of Harley, and I'm quite happy he's been included to be honest. Everyone raves about Glasgow's attacking play, but against some very dangerous opponents with big packs, it's our defence which wins games - consider the games again Munster in 2014 (the semi-final) and Leicester this year: in both games, Harley's outstanding line speed and accuracy in the tackle ensured that the big opposition pack never built up any momentum and were constantly losing ground with every phase.

The scrum half inevitably loses patience and kicks the ball away, inviting counter attack from Hogg and Seymour. That's the ball game.

ɪ'd wholeheartedly agree that, for ɢlasgow, ʜArley is a royal pain in the arse for the opposition. ʜe is a nuisance and tackles all day. ʜowever, it is his limitations are shown up at international level. ʜe isn't particulary quick, nor does he have great hands and importantly he offers virtually nothing by way of ball carrying. ʜe will be absolutely fine for this game, but ɪ would much rather we develop somebody like Bradbury, who we all know has more potential at international level.

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Post by George Carlin Thu 24 Nov 2016, 2:58 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Strauss is starting 8 for Glasgow!
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Post by MacKnocked-on Thu 24 Nov 2016, 4:04 pm

It's a shame we've got so many really good options at centre all of a sudden; Dunbar, Jones, Bennett, Taylor, Scott (with Grigg, Hutchison etc coming up quickly) and yet we're weak at 10 meaning Horne has to take one of the sub places.

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Post by Hazel Sapling Thu 24 Nov 2016, 4:12 pm

Peter Horne is early into his transition to becoming more of a 10 and got bowled over by a big centre right after coming back from injury. I think he can be given a bit more time to grow into the role.

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Post by MacKnocked-on Thu 24 Nov 2016, 4:26 pm

It's not the first time his defence has been dodgy at International level, and you could easily argue he cost us a win against Oz. Good club player but I just think we have got better all round players available that can't get on the bench because we need to include Horne to cover 10. I think there's always going to be that potential weakness as a team in the last twenty mins or so when our subs come on, if we can't accommodate our best players.

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Post by BigGee Thu 24 Nov 2016, 5:01 pm

We definitely do need some other options at FH and in truth in both the half back positions. We are starting to put together some real depth in other areas now, but the potential drop off in the half backs is very concerning.

Yes Horne can be given a bit more time to develop at FH, but it is hard to see how that is going to happen with FR always going to be the no. 1 choice at Glasgow. From what I have seen, he does not look like he is ever going to be a quality international player.

It does seem at FH we are going to be looking towards the next generation and hope that Finn holds up in the meantime. Adam Hastings may well get a decent run of games for Bath now that Priestland has injured himself and that may continue if Ford heads off to pastures new next season as is rumoured. I would not be surprised though to see them bring in another experienced player if that is the case. I still think that he may need to move on to really get the chance to establish himself. Wasps clearly rate their youngster Connor Eastgate, letting him start the AWC games in otherwise pretty decent teams. He will have the same problem getting himself established at such a big spending club though.

Things are not much better at SH, as we don't really know what any of the back ups may be like as they never get onto the pitch. Ali Price deserves his chance and their are a few other promising youngsters coming up, who knows SHC may even re discover the form that got us all excited a couple of years ago. He had better do it reasonably soon though, or he will very quickly become yesterdays man.

We do need to blood some new options though. We can't rely on GL for ever, no matter how long he sees himself playing on. He may not even be the right man for the job if we really do want to play the fast expansive game. You would imagine that Toonie will have that down as a gimme once he takes up the reins.

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Post by EWT Spoons Thu 24 Nov 2016, 11:27 pm

At SH Kennedy is doing pretty well at the moment, and beginning to show the form he displayed at Glasgow. Early days but he's only 25. If he keeps improving he could be an option, or at least a backup/stop-gap

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Post by TJ Fri 25 Nov 2016, 6:12 am

I rate Horne highly as an elusive runner and altho not the biggest a decent tackler as well. I think he is perhaps the most elusive rather than destructive runner we have. He has the potential to develop into a decent 10 as well.

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Post by tigertattie Fri 25 Nov 2016, 9:18 am

Sorry TJ but thats just not the case!

Bennett and Jones are by far more elusive.

Horne has cost us too many points and too many games to justify his selection. His lack of strength and power meant he couldn't cut it at centre so they decided to try him out at 10. He simply does not have the skillset or decision making ability to play standoff.
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Post by RDW Fri 25 Nov 2016, 9:20 am

Huw Jones has been ruled out injured for the next 8 weeks or so - even if he did move to Scotland he would be lacking gametime for the 6N

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Post by NeilyBroon Fri 25 Nov 2016, 9:24 am

TJ wrote:I rate Horne highly as an elusive runner and altho not the biggest a decent tackler as well.  I think he is perhaps the most elusive rather than destructive runner we have.   He has the potential to develop into a decent 10 as well.

+1

Horne is perhaps one of the most berated players on this board and I don't really get it. I think he's perhaps been a bit unfortunate in the capacity he's been involved in games we should have put to bed but then lost, meaning people associate him with bad memories, he has had some cracking scores for Scotland and isn't suddenly a bad player.

I agree that I think he could become a good fly half given the chance. Both Finn and he need to up their kicking game, both got great hands and elusiveness but terrible kickers from hand.

His brother is also a smart rugby player and can play scrum or fly half and is 21 - if he can get into a squad where he'll get game time I can see him coming on in leaps and bounds.
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Post by BigGee Fri 25 Nov 2016, 9:27 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Huw Jones has been ruled out injured for the next 8 weeks or so - even if he did move to Scotland he would be lacking gametime for the 6N

That's a bit tough for him, just when he was breaking through as well and on what we saw so far, could easily be a bolter for the Lions.

He may just about make it back for the 6N, at least the latter part of it, but the game time issue is still there. I wonder if we will hear more about the prospective move to Scotland once the internationals are over. I hope so.

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Post by RDW Fri 25 Nov 2016, 9:39 am

BigGee wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Huw Jones has been ruled out injured for the next 8 weeks or so - even if he did move to Scotland he would be lacking gametime for the 6N

That's a bit tough for him, just when he was breaking through as well and on what we saw so far, could easily be a bolter for the Lions.

He may just about make it back for the 6N, at least the latter part of it, but the game time issue is still there. I wonder if we will hear more about the prospective move to Scotland once the internationals are over. I hope so.

The SRU will have to pay his medical bills anyway since he was injured on international duty, so we might as well fix him up over here!

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Post by MacKnocked-on Fri 25 Nov 2016, 9:43 am

NeilyBroon wrote:
TJ wrote:I rate Horne highly as an elusive runner and altho not the biggest a decent tackler as well.  I think he is perhaps the most elusive rather than destructive runner we have.   He has the potential to develop into a decent 10 as well.

+1

Horne is perhaps one of the most berated players on this board and I don't really get it. I think he's perhaps been a bit unfortunate in the capacity he's been involved in games we should have put to bed but then lost, meaning people associate him with bad memories, he has had some cracking scores for Scotland and isn't suddenly a bad player.

I agree that I think he could become a good fly half given the chance. Both Finn and he need to up their kicking game, both got great hands and elusiveness but terrible kickers from hand.  

His brother is also a smart rugby player and can play scrum or fly half and is 21 - if he can get into a squad where he'll get game time I can see him coming on in leaps and bounds.

George Horne is a very steady goal kicker from what I've seen of him playing for the U20s, something that should serve him very well coming through the ranks.

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Post by George Carlin Fri 25 Nov 2016, 9:51 am

Georgia team - very interesting to take a look at which teams they play for:

15
Merab KVIRIKASHVILI
Lelo Saracens Tbilisi [GEO Big 10]

14
Giorgi APTSIAURI
Lokomotivi Tbilisi [GEO Big 10]

13
Merab SHARIKADZE
Aurillac [FRA Pro D2]

12
Tamaz MTCHEDLIDZE
Agen [FRA Pro D2]

11
Sandro TODUA
Lelo Saracens Tbilisi [GEO Big 10]

10
Lasha MALAGHURADZE
Krasny Yar Krasnoyarsk [RUS Super]

9
Vasil LOBZHANIDZE
Brive [FRA Top 14]

1
Mikheil NARIASHVILI
Montpellier [FRA Top 14]

2
Jaba BREGVADZE
Worcester [ENG Prem]

3
Levan CHILACHAVA
Toulon [FRA Top 14]

4
Kote MIKAUTADZE
Montpellier [FRA Top 14]

5
Giorgi NEMSADZE
Bristol [ENG Prem]

6
Vito KOLELISHVILI
Clermont [FRA Top 14]

7
Mamuka GORGODZE^Capt
Toulon [FRA Top 14]

8
Beka BITSADZE
Chambery [FRA Fed1]


16
Badri ALKHAZASHVILI
Toulon [FRA Top 14]

17
Kakha ASIESHVILI
Brive [FRA Top 14]

18
Dudu KUBRIASHVILI
Montpellier [FRA Top 14]

19
Lasha LOMIDZE
Beziers [FRA Pro D2]

20
Giorgi TKHILAISHVILI
Batumi [GEO Big 10]

21
Giorgi BEGADZE
Qochebi Bolnisi [GEO Big 10]

22
Beka TSIKLAURI
Lokomotivi Tbilisi [GEO Big 10]

23
Shalva SUTIASHVILI
Soyaux Angoulême [FRA Fed1]
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Post by RDW Fri 25 Nov 2016, 9:52 am

So basically the backs are a bit crap but the pack is fearsome!

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Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama Fri 25 Nov 2016, 10:01 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:So basically the backs are a bit crap but the pack is fearsome!

If by fearsome you mean having players who play for Worcester and Bristol then yes, sure Very Happy

Let's be honest, we're going to give this shower a pumping!




Oh dear, I came over all confident there, most out of character. We're doomed!

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Post by MacKnocked-on Fri 25 Nov 2016, 10:06 am

Certainly going to be a contrast in playing styles between the two 7s, Watson and Gorgodze.

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Post by tigertattie Fri 25 Nov 2016, 10:10 am

We should be good enough to give them a proper pumping!

The old saying of "forwards decide who wins a game, backs decide by how much" would indicate that although their forwards will put up a great fight, we should ultimately beat them and with our backs being far better than theirs, we should really be winning by 20+
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