England v Argentina, 26 November

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ENGLAND v ARGENTINA
26 November 2016
14:30 GMT (UTC+0)
Twickenham Stadium, London

Live on Sky Sports 1

Referee: Pascal Gauzère (France)
Assistant Referees: Marius Mitrea (Italy), Ian Davies (Wales)
TMO: Gareth Simmonds (Wales)

A. Head to Head

19 Played 19
14 Won 4
1 Drawn 1
4 Lost 14
488 Points 282

B. Recent Form

9 November 2013
Twickenham, London
31 – 12 to England

15 June 2013
Estadio José Amalfitani, Buenos Aires
26 – 51 to England

8 June 2013
Estadio Padre Ernesto Martearena, Salta
3 – 32 to England

10 September 2011
Otago Stadium, Dunedin, New Zealand
13 – 9 to England

14 November 2009
Twickenham, London
16 – 9 to England

13 June 2009
Padre Ernesto Martearena, Salta
24 – 22 to Argentina

6 June 2009
Old Trafford, Manchester
37 – 15 to England

11 November 2006
Twickenham, London
18 – 25 to Argentina

C. Teams

ENGLAND 

15 Mike Brown, 14 Jonny May, 13 Jonathan Joseph, 12 Owen Farrell, 11 Elliot Daly, 10 George Ford, 9 Ben Youngs, 8 Billy Vunipola, 7 Tom Wood, 6 Chris Robshaw, 5 George Kruis, 4 Courtney Lawes, 3 Dan Cole, 2 Dylan Hartley (c), 1 Mako Vunipola

Replacements: 16 Jamie George, 17 Joe Marler, 18 Kyle Sinckler, 19 Charlie Ewels, 20 Teimana Harrison,, 21 Danny Care, 22 Ben Te’o, 23 Henry Slade

ARGENTINA

15 Joaquín Tuculet, 14 Matías Orlando, 13 Matías Moroni, 12 Santiago González Iglesias, 11 Santiago Cordero, 10 Juan Martín Hernández, 9 Tomás Cubelli, 8 Leonardo Senatore, 7 Javier Ortega Desio, 6 Pablo Matera, 5 Matías Alemanno, 4 Guido Petti, 3 Ramiro Herrera, 2 Agustín Creevy (c), 1 Lucas Noguera

Replacements: 16 Julián Montoya, 17 Santiago García Botta, 18 Enrique Pieretto, 19 Facundo Isa, 20 Tomas Lezana, 21 Martin Landajo, 22 Jerónimo De la Fuente, 23 Juan Pablo Estelles

He is allowed a below par game, still think Slade would be better but he's done enough to be the stop gap still!

Slade's cameos have not left me overly impressed. I am starting to wonder if he is a guy who is perhaps superficially classy? What I mean there is everything he does looks stylish, how he passes, how he kicks etc but when you analyse what he has actually done, how effective it has been, it looks a lot less impressive. Would need to see a lot more from him before considering him to be a genuine contender.

Fair enough, only a handful so far. Better than Burgess (for me) prior to the world cup. Came on and played a nice pass on Saturday leading up to a try. Would prefer him at 12 not 13 though.

The next Jason Robinson

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/38100037

I don't see the comparison if I am being honest.

Cumbrian wrote:The next Jason Robinson

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/38100037

I don't see the comparison if I am being honest.

Ah.. Let me guess. Hype hype hype hype hype (makes a mistake) Demonise, destroy etc.....

In all seriousness JJ is much more Robinson like in his ability to find (and make) gaps. Daly is more the Guscott -looking great running in open space - type.

Cyril wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:I think Lancaster deserves a huge amount of praise for that.

He might not have been able to take it on to the next level, but he put in place a lot of what Jones is making the most of now.

Definitely. In terms of coaching (and 'staleness' of regimes) some set-ups reach a ceiling. Eddie definitely inherited a good core, both in terms of the squad and the wider English set-up and it appears he was just the guy to come in and help it reach its potential. It's often difficult to know how much influence individual coaches have but Gustard and Borthwick seem a really good fit too. It'll be interesting to see if and when Eddie goes for a dedicated, full-time backs coach.

The pity is that the ceiling Lancaster reached was very likely one of inexperience rather than a hard limit. I suspect that when he eventually gets a shot at international coaching again he will be significantly better for the mistakes he made. If the RFU had given him a Geech, Venter or Jones to bounce ideas off, I think he'd have done significantly better.

If you look at the coaches who've won the RWC, they've always had access to prior experience of the tournament - which in most cases means they failed at it before they succeeded. Woodward had two cracks at it, the first a QF exit. White did it at the first attempt, but had Eddie - who'd failed in '03 - to whisper in his ear. Henry was retained after failing in 2007; Hansen did it at the first time of asking - but had been to the RWC with Henry.

Come 2019, England will have a number of potential candidates who will have had that experience. Eddie might be persuaded to stay on, but there will also be Borthwick, Gustard, O'Shea, Catt, Farrell. Interesting times.

With regards to Daly, does he not mean he has the ability to change a game?

Plus it's a bit of positive man management.  Give the lad a public boost and yet it gives him a little gee up to keep working hard to improve.

Well they did try to recruit that New Zealander (forgotten the name) as backs coach/ mentor but it didn't play out. Interesting take on things.

Lancaster did work very hard to improve his game as well as the team, but it didn't work out when it mattered most. It will be interesting to see if he can develop the tactical edge to go with the general team building thing

GeordieFalcon wrote:With regards to Daly, does he not mean he has the ability to change a game?

Plus it's a bit of positive man management.  Give the lad a public boost and yet it gives him a little gee up to keep working hard to improve.

I think everything EJ says is primarily for man management. He's saying to Daly "you've got the talent, here's your opportunity, back yourself, go for it". Same as when we hear about him winding up Ben Youngs with a bag of sweets, it's all to get the best out of the players!

I think if Lancaster had got us to a losing quarter final he would have been given 4 more years. The question for me after the World Cup wasn't so much about Lancaster (as I think he would have been better in his second cycle), but more about whether there was a better option around - and credit to the RFU, they made their decision, chose their man and then went in hard to get him - and it's paid off so far.

It will be interesting to see where he goes from here and whether he ends up in a head coach role again. I certainly think what he would have learned over his 4 years is a potential resource that the RFU could potentially use down the line, assuming they haven't burnt their bridges with him.

Bridges are rarely entirely burnt in sport... though I think Lancaster could only credibly come back to the RFU on the back of a significant achievement elsewhere.

I thought Baxter was on the radar of RFU post 2019

rosbif wrote:I thought Baxter was on the radar of RFU  post 2019

Many people are rumoured to be on the radar of the RFU... Personally, and per earlier discussions, I would very much hope that the RFU do not appoint anyone unless they have been through an RWC and a full RWC cycle either as an international head coach or as a deputy to the head coach of a top tier nation. I don't think it's possible to be properly competitive at an RWC without having been through the cycle before.

Bugger, certain yellow for me

Red for me, he's landed on his head.

nathan wrote:Bugger, certain yellow for me

He'll be incredibly lucky to not get red.

Red it is then...

mid_gen wrote:Red for me, he's landed on his head.

I thought it was his shoulder

Daly has thrown this game for England.  terrible terrible timing.  pathetic. even a decent team are going to struggle like hell for most of the match a man down.

Awful decision from Daly.

This is going to be a hell of a rough game now

trebellbobaggins wrote:Daly has thrown this game for England.  terrible terrible timing.  pathetic. even a decent team are going to struggle like hell for most of the match a man down.

It happens....

Get over it

mid_gen wrote:Awful decision from Daly.

This is going to be a hell of a rough game now

Definitely, but it will give the players some good experience

it does but I don't think he will be getting over it. Will Jones risk him in future?

nathan wrote:

mid_gen wrote:Awful decision from Daly.

This is going to be a hell of a rough game now

Definitely, but it will give the players some good experience

but going into the aussie game after a loss is going to make it even tougher, confidence could be shredded with an already very different side to the one that beat the aussies.

Red was correct decision.

Shame for Daly and England.

Glad Senatore ok.

trebellbobaggins wrote:it does but I don't think he will be getting over it.  Will Jones risk him in future?

Lol

Yes because a player has never made a silly mistake before, stop being so hysterical

stub wrote:Red was correct decision.

Shame for Daly and England.

Glad Senatore ok.

Ahh, Senatore off..

it was severely poor technique though, it asks severe question of him.

there is clumsy and then there is that. very bad.

Daly you chump! Missed tackles and then that.....

Going to take a huge performance now.

trebellbobaggins wrote:

nathan wrote:

mid_gen wrote:Awful decision from Daly.

This is going to be a hell of a rough game now

Definitely, but it will give the players some good experience

but going into the aussie game after a loss is going to make it even tougher, confidence could be shredded with an already very different side to the one that beat the aussies.

Confidence could be shredded?

They're not feckin ballerinas you know!!!??

We'll still win this game.

trebellbobaggins wrote:it was severely poor technique though, it asks severe question of him.

there is clumsy and then there is that.  very bad.

I'll say it again, how is that different to any other player in their career? It's not, the important thing is they learn from their mistakes.

What was Daly thinking? Wrapped his arms around his legs while in the air. Incredibly stupid.

Still think England will win this though.

offload wrote:What was Daly thinking? Wrapped his arms around his legs while in the air. Incredibly stupid.

He mistimed it, it's pretty simple

May has already shown why he was picked ahead of Roko!

nathan wrote:

offload wrote:What was Daly thinking? Wrapped his arms around his legs while in the air. Incredibly stupid.

He mistimed it, it's pretty simple

Exactly Nathan. Mistake, get on with it... next.....

Yes still think England will win.

Can Mike brown pass a ball?

May taken out in there air!!

Yellow card!

player taken in the air.. nothing? May got his leg down so that will be ok. poor timing again. lucky.

nathan wrote:

offload wrote:What was Daly thinking? Wrapped his arms around his legs while in the air. Incredibly stupid.

He mistimed it, it's pretty simple

Your being very generous. We see mistimed tackles all the time. That was really poor.

I thought penalty was ok for that but understand how yellow could have been given.

To be fair to Brown it looked like Mako was supposed to catch that but he let it go?

Kinda glad we're a man down though, this will be a proper test.

Now that was mistimed. Pretty simple.

offload wrote:

nathan wrote:

offload wrote:What was Daly thinking? Wrapped his arms around his legs while in the air. Incredibly stupid.

He mistimed it, it's pretty simple

Your being very generous.  We see mistimed tackles all the time.  That was really poor.

it was a poor mistimed tackle, what's your point?

You can either overanalyse it or accept it and move on

It wasnt mistimed. He had a total brain fart and clearly made a decision to tackle the man when he was two feet off the ground.

Farrell could rescue this for us if Argentina keep giving the penalties away.

nathan wrote:

offload wrote:

nathan wrote:

offload wrote:What was Daly thinking? Wrapped his arms around his legs while in the air. Incredibly stupid.

He mistimed it, it's pretty simple

Your being very generous.  We see mistimed tackles all the time.  That was really poor.

it was a poor mistimed tackle, what's your point?

You can either overanalyse it or accept it and move on

I made my point.

he is allowing so many Arg penalties yet no cards.