Munster Nucifora's Pet Province?

First topic message reminder :

I think it was another reporter in the same paper said that Nucifora may be taking Munster on as a sort of personal project, getting Erasmus (his man) in and getting them on the right path again, it can be taken with a pinch of salt but reading more

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/munster-rugby/ruaidhri-oconnor-ben-smith-capture-would-catapult-munster-back-to-the-top-table-35307339.html

"Talk of Ben Smith joining Munster...... the province may have sought outside help to bring Smith in. IRFU performance director Nucifora has spoken of his willingness to get private investors involved."

"Erasmus is working hard to increase his options next season, with Irish-qualified trio Chris Farrell, JJ Hanrahan and James Hart on the way, while Munster are likely to be allowed retain one of Jaco Taute or Francis Saili."

"Rhys Marshall, a project player from New Zealand, has already joined and uncapped South African prop Oliver Kebble has been linked with a move."

Munster couldn't afford their stadium repayments last year and are now in talks with Smith?

How much of this is true?

How much is down to Munster, and how much Nucifora?

How can Munster get Hart to be behind Murray, and have Pienaar leave Ulster? (why is Nucifora not making this an Ulster move to replace Pienaar)
Allowed an NIQ center forever and add a NIQ fullback, yet they have not produced any centers and have to relay on former Ulster ones Farrell, and Arnold?

If any of this is true fair play to Munster, but if its true and Nucifora is involved I wouldn't be as happy.
How can Nucifora push through all this for Munster who have limited finances, yet can't assit in moving some backrows to Ulster?

Sin é wrote:

Kingshu wrote:Can't believe with all the leeway Munster have been given that they are upset over a player who was lucky enough to get a central contact didn't get it renewed at 33 years of age.

Lucky enough!

Its just down right stupid that an international IQ player, playing well, in a position where Ireland do not have that many options is not persuaded to stay - and in fact, expect him to take a wage cut.

You could not make it up.

Ryan didn't feature in the 2014 or 2015 6 nations, Dan Tuohy played more in the 6 nations then. First chioce was POC and Toner and Henderson on the bench, so I think it was lucky he got a central contract, and there can't be much complaint that it wasn't renewed, it more important to have Ultan Dillane or Iain Henderson stay in Ireland when they are the future.

The fact that Munster didnt offer him a good enough contract says it all. His career is winding down now.

Sin é wrote:

St John The Enforcer wrote:

Kingshu wrote:Can't believe with all the leeway Munster have been given that they are upset over a player who was lucky enough to get a central contact didn't get it renewed at 33 years of age.

10 Feckin NIQs in a season. Bailouts. And still they're Moanin. You couldn't make it up.

Yerman is showing his true colours comparing Ryan to POC and Heaslip. Parochial as feck.. If Munster won a tiddlywinks contest in the dark against 12 yearolds he'd be on here bragging about it.

Thats the worrying thing. We have a kiwi and an Aussie running Irish Professional rugby which seems to prefer bringing in project players rather than keeping the good players we have developed ourselves.

Please do not compare Healip to POC - he isn't up to wiping his boots, let alone get a 3 year international contract which will block any development of No. 8s in Leinster for the next 3 years.

No they dont. There is rarely more than 2 project players in the team at any time. Heaslip has more world player of he year nominations than Poc, as many caps and nearly as many Lions caps. Just because you dont like him doesnt mean you cant compare the two.

Dont pretend like you care about development in Leinster.

Regardless of the knacker from mullingars comment and blatant misunderstanding of how contracts work in Ireland it is a pity to see the guy that helped drag us back into some shape in the 6ns get jettisoned. Instead we have powder puff Devon and Iain (I have lots of potential). Maybe getting the best players on central contracts would help Joe become a little more consistent rather than ones for his also ran buddies

Sin é wrote:

Please do not compare Healip to POC - he isn't up to wiping his boots, let alone get a 3 year international contract which will block any development of No. 8s in Leinster for the next 3 years.

Hmmm, another Nucifora Munster plot uncovered?  I'm beginning to think these Ulster lads are right to be paranoid about Nuisancefora.

Kingshu wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Kingshu wrote:Can't believe with all the leeway Munster have been given that they are upset over a player who was lucky enough to get a central contact didn't get it renewed at 33 years of age.

Lucky enough!

Its just down right stupid that an international IQ player, playing well, in a position where Ireland do not have that many options is not persuaded to stay - and in fact, expect him to take a wage cut.

You could not make it up.

Ryan didn't feature in the 2014 or 2015 6 nations, Dan Tuohy played more in the 6 nations then. First chioce was POC and Toner and Henderson on the bench, so I think it was lucky he got a central contract, and there can't be much complaint that it wasn't renewed, it more important to have Ultan Dillane or Iain Henderson stay in Ireland when they are the future.

Funny enough, he didn't feature for Munster either

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Please do not compare Healip to POC - he isn't up to wiping his boots, let alone get a 3 year international contract which will block any development of No. 8s in Leinster for the next 3 years.

Hmmm, another Nucifora Munster plot uncovered?  I'm beginning to think these Ulster lads are right to be paranoid about Nuisancefora.

Actually, I think they probably thought that Ryan would never leave Munster and they would get him on the cheap.

Sin é wrote:

Kingshu wrote:Think its fair enough Ryan has given plenty to Munster why not take a big payday same as PoC planned to.

I know some are upset he wasn't offered a central contract, but he wasn't always a starter, and its better to give one of these to a younger player like Henderson. So can't blame the IRFU for this one

I don't think Munster could match €300,000 per season for him.

He should have been when fit. Schmidt has built Ireland around Toner who is as soft as putty. The jury is also out on Henderson in my opinion. He is a great athlete but lacks agression in the Brad Thorn, POC, Nathan Hines, DOC, AW Jones mould.

Its something that Eddie Jones has told Itoje to sort out.

Agree on all those points. Nobody can begrudge Ryan moving for the money, if true, but it will probably mean we're stuck with Toner as starting lock.

Sin é wrote:

Kingshu wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Kingshu wrote:Can't believe with all the leeway Munster have been given that they are upset over a player who was lucky enough to get a central contact didn't get it renewed at 33 years of age.

Lucky enough!

Its just down right stupid that an international IQ player, playing well, in a position where Ireland do not have that many options is not persuaded to stay - and in fact, expect him to take a wage cut.

You could not make it up.

Ryan didn't feature in the 2014 or 2015 6 nations, Dan Tuohy played more in the 6 nations then. First chioce was POC and Toner and Henderson on the bench, so I think it was lucky he got a central contract, and there can't be much complaint that it wasn't renewed, it more important to have Ultan Dillane or Iain Henderson stay in Ireland when they are the future.

Funny enough, he didn't feature for Munster either

Well by that logic a player who didn't feature much for Province or Ireland wasn't lucky to get a central contract, and at 33 should get a new one, I look forward to Bowe's contract being renewed. After all he's about the same age and hasn't featured much for Province or Ireland.

He's sexier than Ryan though which says a lot in this day and age when the IRFU are trying to tempt more and more ladies over to the sport of Ladyboys.

To be fair, second row isn't a position we are particularly blessed in. Ryan is a big loss.

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Please do not compare Healip to POC - he isn't up to wiping his boots, let alone get a 3 year international contract which will block any development of No. 8s in Leinster for the next 3 years.

Hmmm, another Nucifora Munster plot uncovered?  I'm beginning to think these Ulster lads are right to be paranoid about Nuisancefora.

Actually, I think they probably thought that Ryan would never leave Munster and they would get him on the cheap.

I agree with you on the above alright, Munster might have been wiser to hold off on paying a 3rd NIQ lock and put those extra couple of euros towards Ryan. I hope Ryan does well over in France, he's probably a better enforcer than the likes of Brennan or O'Driscoll were when they took the ferry over and both of them managed to develop a good appreciation from their club terraces for the heart they showed for their respective jerseys. Best of luck to the lad.

Even more interesting is the possibility of Erasmus leaving.

I think we are missing an important point with Ryan, we have a player who is important for Ireland, and Munster who would have stayed but is offered more to more overseas.

With only 14 central contracts will we see more of the 2nd XV so to speak, moving overseas.

I think this is the start of seeing players on the edges moving, as said the IRFU cannot afford a large number of central contracts to keep these guys, it is going to b eup to the PRO 12 to generate more funding to allow the Provinces to keep hold of these players.

Is the issue around Ryan not more to do with age than cost?

I read that Munster did offer €300,000 per season for two years, but his racing contact is actually closer to €400,000 per season when add on's are taken into account.

Munster really did want and try to keep him.

Kingshu wrote:I think we are missing an important point with Ryan, we have a player who is important for Ireland, and Munster who would have stayed but is offered more to more overseas.

With only 14 central contracts will we see more of the 2nd XV so to speak, moving overseas.

I think this is the start of seeing players on the edges moving, as said the IRFU cannot afford a large number of central contracts to keep these guys, it is going to b eup to the PRO 12 to generate more funding to allow the Provinces to keep hold of these players.

I think it has been happening for a while. Madigan had been involved in something like 15-20 consecutive test squads when he decided to leave. Marty Moore was considered reserve tight head. Sexton and JJ Hanrahan are obviously other examples.

Kingshu wrote:I read that Munster did offer €300,000 per season for two years, but his racing contact is actually closer to €400,000 per season when add on's are taken into account.

Munster really did want and try to keep him.

Im sure that would do wonders for Munsters debt

Are players greedy?

€300,000 at home and treated pretty damn well in player welfare terms verses nearly €400,000 away in France where players seem to be worked to death?

I'd take the €300,000 personally.... unless I just wanted a new experience, and maybe he does.

I wouldn't get out of bed for 300k TBH. He should sack his agent and get BOD in.

rodders wrote:I wouldn't get out of bed for 300k TBH. He should sack his agent and get BOD in.

I'd get out of your bed for 300K. But of course, you have to be staying in a hotel many, many, many, many miles away.... that would be contractual.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Kingshu wrote:I think we are missing an important point with Ryan, we have a player who is important for Ireland, and Munster who would have stayed but is offered more to more overseas.

With only 14 central contracts will we see more of the 2nd XV so to speak, moving overseas.

I think this is the start of seeing players on the edges moving, as said the IRFU cannot afford a large number of central contracts to keep these guys, it is going to b eup to the PRO 12 to generate more funding to allow the Provinces to keep hold of these players.

I think it has been happening for a while. Madigan had been involved in something like 15-20 consecutive test squads when he decided to leave. Marty Moore was considered reserve tight head. Sexton and JJ Hanrahan are obviously other examples.

Was part of Madigans problem not that he wanted to be Leinsters first choice 10 and with Sexton coming home it wasn't going to happen? Something similar was the case with Hanrahan

Moores case was Nucifora low balling him hoping the chance to replace Ross would make up for it

SecretFly wrote:Are players greedy?

€300,000 at home and treated pretty damn well in player welfare terms verses nearly €400,000 away in France where players seem to be worked to death?

I'd take the €300,000 personally.... unless I just wanted a new experience, and maybe he does.

300k goes a long way in Munster plus being a Munster ligind you are probably going to crush it on tinder in the local parish. Easy life.

No one is going to have a bog who he is in France and he will be flogged to death with the extra games for a few extra quid which he will lose on his rent, Gauloises and expenses anyway in Paris.

30k goes even longer in a caravan in mullingar

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:30k goes even longer in a caravan in mullingar

Haha yes there is a disproportionate number of travellers in Mullingar alright you are right. Some of them are seriously rough. I know a lad who had his nose chewed off outside a chipper for looking at one of these lads in the wrong way.

I know another guy, a doctor, who was knocked out by the dad of a settled traveller when he was doing a house call because the woman hadn't gotten any better since the last time the doctor visited. That guy fortunately went to jail over it.

My own parents were terrorised by travellers for a few weeks over a bogus claim they made. There are seriously nasty people knocking around the Gar. Soft Skibbo nerds like you wouldn't last a minute.

Did your parents move along then? All that moving around must be tiresome

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:Did your parents move along then? All that moving around must be tiresome

You are Mullingar wannabe Dod. Id say you are a big Joe Dolan fan too. You auld bogger ya.

Sin é wrote:

Please do not compare Healip to POC - he isn't up to wiping his boots, let alone get a 3 year international contract which will block any development of No. 8s in Leinster for the next 3 years.

Holy heart a jaysis! Just seeing this now! Did you actually write this about a 2 tour lion and 100 cap Irish player? The best Irish 8 to ever wear shoe leather.

I knew you were a small minded parochial type but seriously?

I have had the pleasure of meeting both men and I suggest you ask POC about his opinion of Jamie. Paulie is one of the nicest, most relaxed and unassuming characters I have ever met considering how driven etc he is. True gentleman.

Jamie has a different personality. But one that deserves ultimate respect from the likes of you. Not everything can be judged within a small mind.

If you have ever played rugby you will know that out of 15 people on the pitch.... You will not get on famously with every one of them. But they will all have your back and visa versa. Someone pulls on a green or Lions jersey and honors it 100 times you better focking respect that.

In 150 or so European games for Leinster there have only been 7 times that either Jamie or Big Vic have not started at 8.

Get your head round that and I will accept your humble apology.

Heaslip is probably the most divisive at times under rated Irish player I can ever remember. No such thing as a bad player on 100 test caps.

Heaslip is a pretty average 8, POC was on a complete different level as a player and leader. Heaslip has amassed this amount of caps due to lack of a decent viable option rather than being such a good player.

St John The Enforcer wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Please do not compare Healip to POC - he isn't up to wiping his boots, let alone get a 3 year international contract which will block any development of No. 8s in Leinster for the next 3 years.

Holy heart a jaysis! Just seeing this now! Did you actually write this about a 2 tour lion and 100 cap Irish player? The best Irish 8 to ever wear shoe leather.

I knew you were a small minded parochial type but seriously?

I have had the pleasure of meeting both men and I suggest you ask POC about his opinion of Jamie. Paulie is one of the nicest, most relaxed and unassuming characters I have ever met considering how driven etc he is. True gentleman.

Jamie has a different personality. But one that deserves ultimate respect from the likes of you. Not everything can be judged within a small mind.

If you have ever played rugby you will know that out of 15 people on the pitch.... You will not get on famously with every one of them. But they will all have your back and visa versa. Someone pulls on a green or Lions jersey and honors it 100 times you better focking respect that.

In 150 or so European games for Leinster there have only been 7 times that either Jamie or Big Vic have not started at 8.

Get your head round that and I will accept your humble apology.

You may be right about what you say regarding Heaslip and his contribution to this Irish team - but please remind me why Sin owes you an apology? He's as entitled to his opinions as you are.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Heaslip is a pretty average 8, POC was on a complete different level as a player and leader. Heaslip has amassed this amount of caps due to lack of a decent viable option rather than being such a good player.

I would accept your logic if Heaslip hadnt been picked for two Lions tours as test starter and nominated for world player of the year twice and under 20s world player of the year once. Ireland has had its fair share of good 8s in that time anyway, none were as good as him. His Ireland career has spanned three different Ireland coaches all of whom thought he was undroppable and a leader.

Are you also saying that when he was nominated for under 20s world player of the the year there were no other viable 8s at that age group in the world?
Are you saying that when he received his two world player of the year nominations in 2009 and 2016 there were no other viable 8s in the world?
Same question for his two Lions tours in 2009 and 2013?

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Heaslip is a pretty average 8, POC was on a complete different level as a player and leader. Heaslip has amassed this amount of caps due to lack of a decent viable option rather than being such a good player.

I would accept your logic if Heaslip hadnt been picked for two Lions tours as test starter and nominated for world player of the year twice and under 20s world player of the year once. Ireland has had its fair share of good 8s in that time, none were as good as him.

Are you also saying that when he was nominated for under 20s world player of the the year there were no other viable 8s at that age group in the world?
Are you saying that when he received his two world player of the year nominations in 2009 and 2016 there were no other viable 8s in the world?
Same question for his two Lions tours in 2009 and 2013?

Those selections and nominations were all tied into sponsorship deals and other financial considerations. It happens sometimes (and fair play to Heaslip for having the right connections and 'image').

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Heaslip is a pretty average 8, POC was on a complete different level as a player and leader. Heaslip has amassed this amount of caps due to lack of a decent viable option rather than being such a good player.

I would accept your logic if Heaslip hadnt been picked for two Lions tours as test starter and nominated for world player of the year twice and under 20s world player of the year once. Ireland has had its fair share of good 8s in that time, none were as good as him.

Are you also saying that when he was nominated for under 20s world player of the the year there were no other viable 8s at that age group in the world?
Are you saying that when he received his two world player of the year nominations in 2009 and 2016 there were no other viable 8s in the world?
Same question for his two Lions tours in 2009 and 2013?

Heaslips problem is that he's not a spectacular player, Stander for example can sit someone down with his ball carrying but Heaslip doesn't. Others will make hits and it will look great but Heaslip just makes the hits. Others will maybe clear two guys out of a ruck but he will just come in and protect the ball and help the ball get recycled quickly.

Cyril wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Heaslip is a pretty average 8, POC was on a complete different level as a player and leader. Heaslip has amassed this amount of caps due to lack of a decent viable option rather than being such a good player.

I would accept your logic if Heaslip hadnt been picked for two Lions tours as test starter and nominated for world player of the year twice and under 20s world player of the year once. Ireland has had its fair share of good 8s in that time, none were as good as him.

Are you also saying that when he was nominated for under 20s world player of the the year there were no other viable 8s at that age group in the world?
Are you saying that when he received his two world player of the year nominations in 2009 and 2016 there were no other viable 8s in the world?
Same question for his two Lions tours in 2009 and 2013?

Those selections and nominations were all tied into sponsorship deals and other financial considerations. It happens sometimes (and fair play to Heaslip for having the right connections and 'image').

Such as?

marty2086 wrote:

Cyril wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Heaslip is a pretty average 8, POC was on a complete different level as a player and leader. Heaslip has amassed this amount of caps due to lack of a decent viable option rather than being such a good player.

I would accept your logic if Heaslip hadnt been picked for two Lions tours as test starter and nominated for world player of the year twice and under 20s world player of the year once. Ireland has had its fair share of good 8s in that time, none were as good as him.

Are you also saying that when he was nominated for under 20s world player of the the year there were no other viable 8s at that age group in the world?
Are you saying that when he received his two world player of the year nominations in 2009 and 2016 there were no other viable 8s in the world?
Same question for his two Lions tours in 2009 and 2013?

Those selections and nominations were all tied into sponsorship deals and other financial considerations. It happens sometimes (and fair play to Heaslip for having the right connections and 'image').

Such as?

Sorry, just going a bit 'Wayne Barnes Conspiracy Theory' as it's a Friday

POC for me is a level above heaslip at least, along with bod they would happily sit among discussion for a team of all time place. Heaslip is good has been very good but not in that top bracket.

Cyril wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Cyril wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Heaslip is a pretty average 8, POC was on a complete different level as a player and leader. Heaslip has amassed this amount of caps due to lack of a decent viable option rather than being such a good player.

I would accept your logic if Heaslip hadnt been picked for two Lions tours as test starter and nominated for world player of the year twice and under 20s world player of the year once. Ireland has had its fair share of good 8s in that time, none were as good as him.

Are you also saying that when he was nominated for under 20s world player of the the year there were no other viable 8s at that age group in the world?
Are you saying that when he received his two world player of the year nominations in 2009 and 2016 there were no other viable 8s in the world?
Same question for his two Lions tours in 2009 and 2013?

Those selections and nominations were all tied into sponsorship deals and other financial considerations. It happens sometimes (and fair play to Heaslip for having the right connections and 'image').

Such as?

Sorry, just going a bit 'Wayne Barnes Conspiracy Theory' as it's a Friday

I think the world is starting to see that the Irish were right and he is a rubbish ref

marty2086 wrote:

Cyril wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Cyril wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Heaslip is a pretty average 8, POC was on a complete different level as a player and leader. Heaslip has amassed this amount of caps due to lack of a decent viable option rather than being such a good player.

I would accept your logic if Heaslip hadnt been picked for two Lions tours as test starter and nominated for world player of the year twice and under 20s world player of the year once. Ireland has had its fair share of good 8s in that time, none were as good as him.

Are you also saying that when he was nominated for under 20s world player of the the year there were no other viable 8s at that age group in the world?
Are you saying that when he received his two world player of the year nominations in 2009 and 2016 there were no other viable 8s in the world?
Same question for his two Lions tours in 2009 and 2013?

Those selections and nominations were all tied into sponsorship deals and other financial considerations. It happens sometimes (and fair play to Heaslip for having the right connections and 'image').

Such as?

Sorry, just going a bit 'Wayne Barnes Conspiracy Theory' as it's a Friday

I think the world is starting to see that the Irish were right and he is a rubbish ref

The Irish are never right and if they were it would only be by accident

Cyril wrote:

Those selections and nominations were all tied into sponsorship deals and other financial considerations. It happens sometimes (and fair play to Heaslip for having the right connections and 'image').

You would make a good Munster fan Cyril.

The below is a list of some of the players that Heaslip has kept the 8 jersey ahead of:

Anthony Foley
Victor Costello
Denis Leamy
Roger Wilson
Rhys Ruddock
John Muldoon
Sean O'Brien (has played 8 on various occasions)
Chris Henry (think he has played 8)
Robbie Diack
Jordi Murphy
Jack Conan
Robin Copeland
CJ Stander
Jack O'Donoghue

All of these guys can play 8 all are good players. Three different Ireland coached cant be wrong surely?

Heaslip is arguably the 5th best 8 in the NH, hes just an average Int player these days. He looked excellent around 6 years ago but has never kicked on. He's done well with such limited ability to ne fair.

No 7&1/2 wrote:POC for me is a level above heaslip at least, along with bod they would happily sit among discussion for a team of all time place. Heaslip is good has been very good but not in that top bracket.

I would agree that he isnt quite at the level of POC but only exceptional players get to 100 test caps and Heaslip is up there. In any case he is our greatest ever 8.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Heaslip is arguably the 5th best 8 in the NH, hes just an average Int player these days. He looked excellent around 6 years ago but has never kicked on. He's done well with such limited ability to ne fair.

So how do you explain his 2016 world player of the year nomination?

GunsGermsV2 wrote:You would make a good Munster fan Cyril.

Wow, that escalated quickly. Harsh words

Cyril wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:You would make a good Munster fan Cyril.

Wow, that escalated quickly. Harsh words

Sorry you are right. That was a bit mean.

Fair enough but I'd also throw in its easier to get to 100 caps for Ireland than it is for a france nz england just due to the amount of other options. He does look under serious pressure from Stander now, from an outsiders perspective.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Heaslip is arguably the 5th best 8 in the NH, hes just an average Int player these days. He looked excellent around 6 years ago but has never kicked on. He's done well with such limited ability to ne fair.

So how do you explain his 2016 world player of the year nomination?

Had BOD moved onto the voting panel by then?

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Heaslip is arguably the 5th best 8 in the NH, hes just an average Int player these days. He looked excellent around 6 years ago but has never kicked on. He's done well with such limited ability to ne fair.

So how do you explain his 2016 world player of the year nomination?

A token nomination? I don't, it is what is. Its also now 2017.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Fair enough but I'd also throw in its easier to get to 100 caps for Ireland than it is for a france nz england just due to the amount of other options. He does look under serious pressure from Stander now, from an outsiders perspective.

Yes it probably is alright. Here is a breakdown of the countries that have centurions:

Ireland - 6
Australia - 7
France - 2
England - 1
NZ - 5
Italy - 6
Scotland - 3
SA - 5
Wales - 5

I think in part it can be explained by the fact that Ireland has a smaller player pool but also because in my opinion Ireland and NZ for example have better player management systems than England and France so our players dont get flogged to death at club level.

Jason Leonard the only English player on the list played 309 club games as opposed to BOD's 186 club games.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Heaslip is arguably the 5th best 8 in the NH, hes just an average Int player these days. He looked excellent around 6 years ago but has never kicked on. He's done well with such limited ability to ne fair.

So how do you explain his 2016 world player of the year nomination?

A token nomination? I don't, it is what is. Its also now 2017.

Well it debunks you silly theory that "He looked excellent around 6 years ago but has never kicked on"