Lions 2017 - Name your team, captain and whatever else you want to harp on about

My wishlist:

I hope AWJ is named captain to keep the Irish and English lads in check.
I hope Robshaw gets picked, he deserves to tour at least once at this point.
I hope the refereeing is strictly on a level playing field.
I hope NZ are made accountable for any incidents where they break anyone's collarbone and put them out of the game for 13 months.
The Lions to be at the very least competitive and win one of the first two tests.
I'd like to see Tadhg Furlong get a run out.
Would like to see an uncapped player in the squad.
No charity caps, Tom court, Shane Williams etc.
I hope Gatland comes up with a much more interesting and variable game plan than on the last Lions tour.
Dylan Hartley calls a ref the C word on the last day of the six nations and misses the tour.

My vote is for AWJ to captain as well.

After that, I'm not too bothered.

Rory Best. Please let Rory Best be captain

Couldn't give a hoot about it, Gatland has ruined everything good about the Lions, well, what little good that has been left post 2001... now it is just a brand to sell jerseys and commercial tours to the SH.

How has Gatland ruined everything since 2001?!  You pathetic creature!

Griff wrote:How has Gatland ruined everything since 2001?!  You pathetic creature!

No he did a good job with wasps and wales. He just ruined the Lions.

rodders wrote:

Griff wrote:How has Gatland ruined everything since 2001?!  You pathetic creature!

No he did a good job with wasps and wales. He just ruined the Lions.

I know that's what you meant. I just find it a bit pathetic that you think that 1 coach has ruined the whole of the Lions.

Griff wrote:

rodders wrote:

Griff wrote:How has Gatland ruined everything since 2001?!  You pathetic creature!

No he did a good job with wasps and wales. He just ruined the Lions.

I know that's what you meant.  I just find it a bit pathetic that you think that 1 coach has ruined the whole of the Lions.

No I said professionalism killed the Lions, Gatland just buried them.

This tour should not be recognized as the B&I Lions, they have been extinct since 1997, although 2009 did their best imitation of them.

Lads can we please maintain some level of decorum on my threads.

2009 tour and the 1997 Lions tours were the best in my life time probably. Really enjoyed them both.

Crickey Guns, you have a neck like a jockeys b****lix!

rodders wrote:

Griff wrote:

rodders wrote:

Griff wrote:How has Gatland ruined everything since 2001?!  You pathetic creature!

No he did a good job with wasps and wales. He just ruined the Lions.

I know that's what you meant.  I just find it a bit pathetic that you think that 1 coach has ruined the whole of the Lions.

No I said professionalism killed the Lions, Gatland just buried them.

This tour should not be recognized as the B&I Lions, they have been extinct since 1997, although 2009 did their best imitation of them.

What a c*ck.

Despite it working so terribly for Woodward Gatland really does need a PR guy. A likeable guy to give the interviews. Step forward Borthwick...

No 7&1/2 wrote:Despite it working so terribly for Woodward Gatland really does need a PR guy. A likeable guy to give the interviews.  Step forward Borthwick...

Has his nose stopped bleeding yet?!

Any day now.

1. Vunipola
2. Best
3. Furlong
4. Itoje
5. Jones (c)
6. Robshaw
7. O'Brien
8. Vunipola
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. May
12. Farrell
13. Davies
14. Seymour
15. Hogg

16. Hartley 17. McGrath   18. Nel   19. J Grey   20. Tipuric   21. Care   22. Biggar   23. Zebo

Decent team, I'd rather have Kruis and Joseph at 5 and 13 though.

Submachine wrote:1. Vunipola
2. Best
3. Furlong
4. Itoje
5. Jones
6. Robshaw
7. O'Brien
8. Vunipola
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. May
12. Farrell
13. Davies
14. Seymour
15. Hogg

16. Hartley 17. McGrath   18. Nel   19. J Grey   20. Tipuric   21. Care   22. Biggar   23. Zebo

I know it's all based on personal opinion and there's no right or wrong, etc.  But the name that jumps out to me there is Davies at 13.  Assuming you mean Jonathon Davies?  I'd have him nowhere near the starting team.  Perhaps not even on the plane.  Hasn't played well this season at all for me.  I'd prefer maybe Jonathan Joseph.  Or Payne from Ireland?  How's he doing?

Sin é wrote:Crickey Guns, you have a neck like a jockeys b****lix!

Haha you know Im messing

I presume Billy Vunapola will be picked no matter what even if he doesnt feature in the 6N. Probably has earned his place already anyway.

Griff wrote:

Submachine wrote:1. Vunipola
2. Best
3. Furlong
4. Itoje
5. Jones
6. Robshaw
7. O'Brien
8. Vunipola
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. May
12. Farrell
13. Davies
14. Seymour
15. Hogg

16. Hartley 17. McGrath   18. Nel   19. J Grey   20. Tipuric   21. Care   22. Biggar   23. Zebo

I know it's all based on personal opinion and there's no right or wrong, etc.  But the name that jumps out to me there is Davies at 13.  Assuming you mean Jonathon Davies?  I'd have him nowhere near the starting team.  Perhaps not even on the plane.  Hasn't played well this season at all for me.  I'd prefer maybe Jonathan Joseph.  Or Payne from Ireland?  How's he doing?

Payne is on the long term injured list so probably not gonna be in contention. Taking previous experience and combinations into account also. I actaully started my team with Henshaw at 12 but I'd really like to see that 10 - 12 - 13 combination. Also like to see kicking duties taken out of the equation for Sexton. Worked pretty well the last time.

But Joseph is probably the best player in the whole backline.

Griff wrote:

rodders wrote:

Griff wrote:

rodders wrote:

Griff wrote:How has Gatland ruined everything since 2001?!  You pathetic creature!

No he did a good job with wasps and wales. He just ruined the Lions.

I know that's what you meant.  I just find it a bit pathetic that you think that 1 coach has ruined the whole of the Lions.

No I said professionalism killed the Lions, Gatland just buried them.

This tour should not be recognized as the B&I Lions, they have been extinct since 1997, although 2009 did their best imitation of them.

What a c*ck.

That's what I think about him too.

Can't see May leapfrogging past Watson.

Submachine wrote:1. Vunipola
2. Best
3. Furlong
4. Itoje
5. Jones (c)
6. Robshaw
7. O'Brien
8. Vunipola
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. May
12. Farrell
13. Davies
14. Seymour
15. Hogg

16. Hartley 17. McGrath   18. Nel   19. J Grey   20. Tipuric   21. Care   22. Biggar   23. Zebo

 Presuming that is the team to play the Maoris, Wouldnt you change Hartley and Best around for Rotorua? Distract the Maoris and other lines of thought?  or are you going down the dont show them everything line?

aucklandlaurie wrote:

Submachine wrote:1. Vunipola
2. Best
3. Furlong
4. Itoje
5. Jones (c)
6. Robshaw
7. O'Brien
8. Vunipola
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. May
12. Farrell
13. Davies
14. Seymour
15. Hogg

16. Hartley 17. McGrath   18. Nel   19. J Grey   20. Tipuric   21. Care   22. Biggar   23. Zebo

 Presuming that is the team to play the Maoris, Wouldnt you change Hartley and Best around for Rotorua? Distract the Maoris and other lines of thought?  or are you going down the dont show them everything line?

I just picked 23 lads who I think would be make a cracking team. Everyone will have their own opinions, I would like to see this team get a run ato some point. May is based purely on pace, I like my wingers to have gas first and foremost. Same for Seymour since he destroyed Leinster on his own.

I also have AWJ starting as he is my choice for captain but I would actually prefer a combination of Itoje and J Grey.

Would love to see Henshaw and Watson at 12 - 13 and depending on how the 6 Nations go there could be an argument for Henshaw and Ringrose in the centres. I really want to wedge Liam Williams in there somewhere also but I've gone with Hogg at 15 with Seymour at 14. Didn't want an tri nations back 3.

Facking love the Lions.

Submachine wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:

Submachine wrote:1. Vunipola
2. Best
3. Furlong
4. Itoje
5. Jones (c)
6. Robshaw
7. O'Brien
8. Vunipola
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. May
12. Farrell
13. Davies
14. Seymour
15. Hogg

16. Hartley 17. McGrath   18. Nel   19. J Grey   20. Tipuric   21. Care   22. Biggar   23. Zebo

 Presuming that is the team to play the Maoris, Wouldnt you change Hartley and Best around for Rotorua? Distract the Maoris and other lines of thought?  or are you going down the dont show them everything line?

I just picked 23 lads who I think would be make a cracking team. Everyone will have their own opinions, I would like to see this team get a run ato some point. May is based purely on pace, I like my wingers to have gas first and foremost. Same for Seymour since he destroyed Leinster on his own.

I also have AWJ starting as he is my choice for captain but I would actually prefer a combination of Itoje and J Grey.

Would love to see Henshaw and Watson at 12 - 13 and depending on how the 6 Nations go there could be an argument for Henshaw and Ringrose in the centres. I really want to wedge Liam Williams in there somewhere also but I've gone with Hogg at 15 with Seymour at 14. Didn't want an tri nations back 3.

Facking love the Lions.  

 I was just trying to come at it from how Gatland would/might approach it. From where I see it Gatty has to run his test team somewhere before the first test, ideally 7 days prior which puts it at the Maoris game. or do you come at it from the other angle and and  ask yourself how obvious is it that he would play any test players four days prior to the first test? he has to run at least some of numbers 15 - 23 at Hamilton I'd have thought?

Last midweek game is usually a final trial/fitness test for some of the predicted test starters. Don't see it changing too much this time around.
If the team I posted was the starting test team I would be very surprised but I think it could do a job. You are probably right that Hartley would be Gats first choice as hooker.

My personal opinion regards captain for the Lions. will depend on the outcome of the 6ns.

IF, Hartley plays for England and England win another Grand Slam. ( big task with the injuries England have)

But if he does not play and England do not win the 6ns (grand slam) or not. then it will be between AWJ and Warburton. in my opinion.

Joseph seems the guy most assured of starting, no way does Davies start ahead of him.

rodders wrote:Couldn't give a hoot about it, Gatland has ruined everything good about the Lions, well, what little good that has been left post 2001... now it is just a brand to sell jerseys and commercial tours to the SH.

 

you mean by winning it….

Do we need an 85% kicker? The ABs don't have one. Do we go for an edge there, or look to best them on tries?

I really think we the exciting players we have we can play an up tempo game and look to take them on playing an exciting brand of rugby. I really hope Gatland goes down that route, possibly as an audition for the ABs job himself.

I'd be leaning towards Ford at 10, and I don't think Laidlaw, Farrell or Halfpenny make my team.

We need a better kicker than Ford.

Is he that bad? I can only find 15/16 Premiership stats, but he kicked at 72%. I'd double check my maths, but I think Barrett kicked at 70% over the Championship? Certainly not at the 80-85% level that the top class kickers kick at.

If a kicker gets 6 shots, that 10% difference is worth 1.5 points. If a kicker gets 10 shots, that rises to 2.5 points. That's only one try every two games, so do you not want your best 10 out there to maximise try scoring opportunities?

It's not his average stats but the fact that when he's bad he's awful. And he doesn't have the mental strength of a Farrell.

Also stats don't show the kicks you turn down. Last Bath game against Newcastle he missed a few shockers and turned down another couple an international kicker should get.

He would have cost us the last game against Wales if we didn't destroy them.

Just has incredible collapses.

I don"t think it is about ( the best ten) But who is the best goal kicker.

I think Farrell is a better goal kicker than Ford. Center for the Lions could be like it is for England, who to pick at 12. Joseph is beeter than Davies so for me Joseph starts. 23? Really do not know who to play there.

Scottrf wrote:It's not his average stats but the fact that when he's bad he's awful. And he doesn't have the mental strength of a Farrell.

Also stats don't show the kicks you turn down. Last Bath game against Newcastle he missed a few shockers and turned down another couple an international kicker should get.

He would have cost us the last game against Wales if we didn't destroy them.

Just has incredible collapses.

B*stards!

Gwlad wrote:

rodders wrote:Couldn't give a hoot about it, Gatland has ruined everything good about the Lions, well, what little good that has been left post 2001... now it is just a brand to sell jerseys and commercial tours to the SH.

 

you mean by winning it….

Most fans wouldn't care one way or the other. Its an excuse for a big piss up when losses don't really hurt. You seriously think anyone cares that Wales (with guests) won against the worst Australian team in history?

Are you saying that people don't care about the Lions' performances and wins in general, and from tournament to tournament? Or that they only care if the Lions has the right proportion of their own countrymen in the team?

They're just bitter Irishmen because Gatland had the audacity to drop BOD from a test team. Seems three and a half years later, they still haven't got over it

I haven't slept the same since.

1. Vunipola
2. Best (c)
3. Furlong
4. Gray
5. Itoje
6. Faletau
7. Stander
8. Vunipola
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Williams
12. Farrell
13. Henshaw
14. Watson
15. Hogg

16. McGrath
17. George
18. Nel
19. Jones
20. O'Brien
21. Youngs
22. Russell
23. Halfpenny

I'm not sure there's an out and out openside in Britain and Ireland at the moment so I'd go for a back row of out and out power in the hope that the two second rows will be strong enough over the ball to make up for it, as well as the mobile front five.
Between Sexton, Farrell and Hogg the tactical kicking will be strong enough to put the big pack in the right places on the pitch. Watson and Williams are both extremely good under the high ball.
In terms of the bench it provides a good mix of experience and skill, O'Brien is good across all three positions in the back row and can perform as an out and out 7. Halfpenny is similar in that respect and if Hogg is having an off day then he is a very able operator to replace him and adds to the tactical kicking dimension. Russell would be a very adept roll of the dice to put on if the Lions need a try, if however they need a kick or to see out the game he wouldn't be ideal.

Out and out openside? Hamish Watson is your man. I don't think he is ready for the lions yet tho but might be a bolter with good performances in the 6N

If you're looking for an in form openside then Justin Tipuric could be your man (although I can see he's on your bench). I've been critical of him in the past for Wales (perhaps unfairly) but you can't argue with his stats this season. People have talked about Johnny Gray's awesome tackle stats this season, but Tipuric has some stand out stats too: as of last week he was 160 tackles made and none missed in league, Europe and international. He hasn't missed a tackle all season. He's having a stormer this year and is perhaps why Warburton is standing down as skipper as he's not going to get in the Wales team.

There are so many positions which are up for debate. For instance, despite the hype and general brilliance I could see Itoje not starting (though he will be at the very least on the bench). But there is one position that isn't. Joseph must be certain to start at 13. I know that means that Gatland will pick JDII but then he's wrong.

lostinwales wrote:There are so many positions which are up for debate. For instance, despite the hype and general brilliance I could see Itoje not starting (though he will be at the very least on the bench). But there is one position that isn't. Joseph must be certain to start at 13. I know that means that Gatland will pick JDII but then he's wrong.

JD2 should not be on the plane.

Griff wrote:

lostinwales wrote:There are so many positions which are up for debate. For instance, despite the hype and general brilliance I could see Itoje not starting (though he will be at the very least on the bench). But there is one position that isn't. Joseph must be certain to start at 13. I know that means that Gatland will pick JDII but then he's wrong.

JD2 should not be on the plane.

I do agree with you. But you can bet he will be. He is Welsh after all.

majesticimperialman wrote:

Griff wrote:

lostinwales wrote:There are so many positions which are up for debate. For instance, despite the hype and general brilliance I could see Itoje not starting (though he will be at the very least on the bench). But there is one position that isn't. Joseph must be certain to start at 13. I know that means that Gatland will pick JDII but then he's wrong.

JD2 should not be on the plane.

I do agree with you. But you can bet he will be. He is Welsh after all.

Original.

True Raven wrote:They're just bitter Irishmen because Gatland had the audacity to drop BOD from a test team.  Seems three and a half years later, they still haven't got over it

Drop them all I say... or rather don't select them in the first place.

Mind you three and a half years is small beer considering Gats is still holding his grudge against being dropped by Ireland seventeen years ago.

The Great Aukster wrote:

True Raven wrote:They're just bitter Irishmen because Gatland had the audacity to drop BOD from a test team.  Seems three and a half years later, they still haven't got over it

Drop them all I say... or rather don't select them in the first place.

Mind you three and a half years is small beer considering Gats is still holding his grudge against being dropped by Ireland seventeen years ago.

Aukster, you realise that you're no different on Lions threads than PhilBB is on Pro12 threads? Exactly the same.

I was against Best being made Ireland captain and just thought it was a stop gap until POM got fit but right now I would not remove it from him as he has proven himself to be an excellent captain. I would have Best as the Lions captain.

In the midfield I would have Henshaw at 12 and Joseph at 13.