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6N 2017: England v France, 4 February

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Post by George Carlin Thu 19 Jan 2017, 11:14 am

First topic message reminder :

6N 2017: England v France, 4 February - Page 10 Englan11  6N 2017: England v France, 4 February - Page 10 France11
ENGLAND v FRANCE
4 February 2017
KO: 16:50
Twickenham, London 

Live on ITV, FR2, RTE, DMAX, BBC (H)

Referee: Angus Gardner (Australia)
Touch judges: Glen Jackson (New Zealand) & Marius van der Westhuizen (South Africa)
TMO: Peter Fitzgibbon (Ireland)

A. Head to Head

102 Played 102
56 Won 39
7 Drawn 7
39 Lost 56
1623 Points 1290

B. Recent Form 

19 March 2016
Stade de France, Saint-Denis
21 – 31 to England

22 August 2015
Stade de France, Saint-Denis
25 – 20 to France

15 August 2015
Twickenham, London
19 – 14 to England

21 March 2015
Twickenham, London
55 – 35 to England

1 February 2014
Stade de France, Saint-Denis
26 – 24 to France

C. Teams

ENGLAND 
6N 2017: England v France, 4 February - Page 10 Mary-b10
15-Mike Brown; 14-Jonny May, 13-Jonathan Joseph, 12-Owen Farrell, 11-Elliot Daly; 10-George Ford, 9-Ben Youngs; 1-Joe Marler, 2-Dylan Hartley (captain), 3-Dan Cole, 4-Joe Launchbury, 5-Courtney Lawes, 6-Maro Itoje, 7-Tom Wood, 8-Nathan Hughes

Replacements: 16-Jamie George, 17-Matt Mullan, 18-Kyle Sinckler 19-Teimana Harrison, 20-James Haskell, 21-Danny Care, 22-Ben Te'o, 23-Jack Nowell

FRANCE
6N 2017: England v France, 4 February - Page 10 Raymon10
15-Scott Spedding; 14-Noa Nakaitaci, 13-Remi Lamerat, 12-Gael Fickou, 11-Virimi Vakatawa; 10-Camille Lopez, 9-Baptiste Serin; 1-Cyril Baille, 2-Guilhem Guirado (captain), 3-Uini Atonio, 4-Sebastien Vahaamahina, 5-Yoann Maestri, 6-Damien Chouly, 7-Kevin Gourdon, 8-Louis Picamoles

Replacements: 16-Clement Maynadier, 17-Rabah Slimani, 18-Xavier Chiocci, 19-Arthur Iturria, 20-Loann Goujon, 21-Maxime Machenaud, 22-Jean Marc Doussain, 23-Yoann Huget


Last edited by George Carlin on Sat 04 Feb 2017, 5:09 am; edited 2 times in total
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Post by screamingaddabs Mon 06 Feb 2017, 11:36 am

Maybe someone else mentioned it earlier in this thread but I thought that pure skill moment of the game should go to Daly for his touch kick after the Ford charge down.

Picks up loose ball, immediately spies a gap over the winger on the left, inch perfect touch finder.

That was pure class in a game distinctly lacking class!
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Post by cascough Mon 06 Feb 2017, 11:36 am

Few different perceptions coming out of this. England were poor, France were much improved etc. Whilst both of these can be true at the same time I disagree that France will go on to do well in this championship.

I've heard lots how England were 2nd best for 60 minutes but how can this be true when there was never more than a score in it? Surely there was hardly anything between the sides?

You might point to the fact France had forward dominance for much of the game but I'd point to the fact they they were pretty useless at doing anything with it. Forget if they were better than last year, in the context of that game they were, as England were, poor. It was a poor game. France will have to play a lot better than that if they have any aspirations this tournament. Can't just run over people. Have to finish it off!

The good thing for England though is they came out on the right side of the result. Something they have made a habit of under Eddie Jones. Lovely stuff.

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Post by LondonTiger Mon 06 Feb 2017, 11:37 am

screamingaddabs wrote:Maybe someone else mentioned it earlier in this thread but I thought that pure skill moment of the game should go to Daly for his touch kick after the Ford charge down.

Picks up loose ball, immediately spies a gap over the winger on the left, inch perfect touch finder.

That was pure class in a game distinctly lacking class!

I could have sworn he shinned that kick and got lucky Very Happy

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Post by majesticimperialman Mon 06 Feb 2017, 12:17 pm

Just rewatched the game and noticed Farrell taking the kick ofs/s this week in stead of Ford.
Could this be why Ford did not have a good game this week, he did not seem him self at all during the game.

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Post by lostinwales Mon 06 Feb 2017, 12:33 pm

cascough wrote:Few different perceptions coming out of this. England were poor, France were much improved etc. Whilst both of these can be true at the same time I disagree that France will go on to do well in this championship.

I've heard lots how England were 2nd best for 60 minutes but how can this be true when there was never more than a score in it? Surely there was hardly anything between the sides?

You might point to the fact France had forward dominance for much of the game but I'd point to the fact they they were pretty useless at doing anything with it. Forget if they were better than last year, in the context of that game they were, as England were, poor. It was a poor game. France will have to play a lot better than that if they have any aspirations this tournament. Can't just run over people. Have to finish it off!

The good thing for England  though is they came out on the right side of the result. Something they have made a habit of under Eddie Jones. Lovely stuff.

I agree. Too much can be made of meters run etc, but all that actually counts is the scoreboard. Picamoles was fantastic. Spedding was brutal but it didn't add up to very much. Gustard earned his money alright.

By the way I really don't get all the abuse thrown Wood's way. He isn't the best we have, but he might be the best we have available right now. His work rate was huge and I don't see the alternatives that can put in the same kind of shift. Put it this way - better a speed bump than no bump at all.

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Post by cascough Mon 06 Feb 2017, 12:39 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:Just rewatched the game and noticed  Farrell taking the kick ofs/s this week in stead of Ford.
Could this be why Ford did not have a good game this week, he did not seem him self at all during the game.

Yes I spotted that at the time and assumed it must be because Ford was carrying a little niggle. He seemed to kick from hand with the same regularity though, who knows!

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Post by propdavid_london Mon 06 Feb 2017, 12:40 pm

You should perhaps judge players on their own previous performances. Tom Wood was a step down than when he came in during AIs. Daley was a marked improvement. Ford seems to be in a bit of a shell at the moment.

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Post by mid_gen Mon 06 Feb 2017, 1:06 pm

Ford was suffering because the forwards weren't giving him any time or space, and that comes down to the lack of physicality we had starting.

I didn't think Wood was that bad either....but we need to tinker. I think EJ won't wholesale change so we'll get.

Marler, Hartley/George, Cole
Itoje, Lawes
Wood, Hughes, Haskell
Youngs, Ford
Nowell, Farrell, JJ, Daly, Brown

Personally I'd start Te'o and Care, but I don't think EJ will make wholesale changes.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Mon 06 Feb 2017, 1:08 pm

lostinwales wrote:
cascough wrote:Few different perceptions coming out of this. England were poor, France were much improved etc. Whilst both of these can be true at the same time I disagree that France will go on to do well in this championship.

I've heard lots how England were 2nd best for 60 minutes but how can this be true when there was never more than a score in it? Surely there was hardly anything between the sides?

You might point to the fact France had forward dominance for much of the game but I'd point to the fact they they were pretty useless at doing anything with it. Forget if they were better than last year, in the context of that game they were, as England were, poor. It was a poor game. France will have to play a lot better than that if they have any aspirations this tournament. Can't just run over people. Have to finish it off!

The good thing for England  though is they came out on the right side of the result. Something they have made a habit of under Eddie Jones. Lovely stuff.

I agree. Too much can be made of meters run etc, but all that actually counts is the scoreboard. Picamoles was fantastic. Spedding was brutal but it didn't add up to very much. Gustard earned his money alright.

By the way I really don't get all the abuse thrown Wood's way. He isn't the best we have, but he might be the best we have available right now. His work rate was huge and I don't see the alternatives that can put in the same kind of shift. Put it this way - better a speed bump than no bump at all.

There is one...but im sick of pushing his name forward.

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Post by beshocked Mon 06 Feb 2017, 3:00 pm

The solution is a bit more straightforward - drop Hartley to the bench, make Haskell captain.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon 06 Feb 2017, 3:02 pm

Farrell is next in line.

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Post by kingelderfield Mon 06 Feb 2017, 7:49 pm

Get real boys, seriously Itoje has to be the next captain. He is the real deal with character beyond his years.
Hartley will stay in situ just as long as his form can justify it, which will probably be at least another 18 months, allowing Itoje to bed in completely.
Considering Hartley has been out so long his performance was very impressive.
Farrell will be the teams Mr angry, when the mantle is passed on, but he is not a long term captain - a one off from time to time granted.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon 06 Feb 2017, 7:55 pm

Oh I'm not arguing Farrell as long term captain etc simply that he is next in line currently should Hartley be dropped.

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Post by doctor_grey Tue 07 Feb 2017, 10:30 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:There is one...but im sick of pushing his name forward.
Ah, of course. Your sick. You obviously need a doctor. Please make an appointment, give a £100 note to the woman at the front desk, and come on in. I am sure we can fit you in.

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Post by SecretFly Tue 07 Feb 2017, 1:16 pm

That's Doc for you...never off duty.... Cool

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Post by No9 Tue 07 Feb 2017, 1:57 pm

Haven't been on the site since the end of the first games..

Has anyone mentioned the deliberate and so B!oody obvious blocking from Lawes to allow Te'o's try.. How the hell did England get away with that one. That as well was a result changer, as without, England would have lost.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9kzQ1r0G4Q (about 14-15 seconds into the clip)


Last edited by No9 on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 2:06 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 07 Feb 2017, 2:02 pm

There were 3 players wider than the one blocked and he wouldn't have been the guy to make the tackle so probably fair enough.

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Post by No9 Tue 07 Feb 2017, 2:07 pm

Was clear obstruction in the "red zone".. Play should have been called back, no try.

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Post by Scottrf Tue 07 Feb 2017, 2:08 pm

Disallowing a try for obstruction which had no effect on the action would be 'interesting'.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 07 Feb 2017, 2:14 pm

Yeah normally you would only pull it back if it had a direct influence on the play. In this instance the ball went much wider and 2 players were there to attempt the tackle (and they would be the same 2 without the block).

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Post by No9 Tue 07 Feb 2017, 2:14 pm

Who said the obstruction had no effect. An obstruction there, 5m from the try line, is bound to have an impact.

There would have been hell to play, if it was a French obstruction to allow a French try.

Guess I'll have to watch the video again wearing these glasses like you guys seem to be doing..

6N 2017: England v France, 4 February - Page 10 England_theme_wayfarer_sunglasses_brightways-600x450

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 07 Feb 2017, 2:19 pm

If the te'o run had targeted a gap created by the block/towards the blocked player yes it would clearly have been pinged but the ball was played wider and targeted 2 other players.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Tue 07 Feb 2017, 2:28 pm

It's a penalty if the blocker prevents a potential tackler. The defender was in no position to make a tackle on Te'o hence no penalty. English, French or whoever....its not a pen.

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Post by No9 Tue 07 Feb 2017, 2:38 pm

6N 2017: England v France, 4 February - Page 10 England_theme_wayfarer_sunglasses_brightways-600x450

Wow.. using those glasses and this is what I can see..

6N 2017: England v France, 4 February - Page 10 Captur11

.... take them off again and I can see..

6N 2017: England v France, 4 February - Page 10 Wooden-spoon


Spooky.. Whistle

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 07 Feb 2017, 2:39 pm

You're just bothered about the wum not the laws then

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Post by No9 Tue 07 Feb 2017, 2:46 pm

Not at all.. Just think England where lucky and if the position was reversed there would be hell to play.


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Post by Sgt_Pooly Tue 07 Feb 2017, 2:46 pm

Well that escalated, I though he was trying to make a valid contribution.

The award to the worst attempt at a wum on 606 today..........goes to No9!

Congratulations that man clap


Last edited by Sgt_Pooly on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 2:48 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by munkian Tue 07 Feb 2017, 2:48 pm

I'm glad they won.
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Post by No9 Tue 07 Feb 2017, 2:53 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Well that escalated, I though he was trying to make a valid contribution.

The award to the worst attempt at a wum on 606 today..........goes to No9!

Congratulations that man clap

WUM - don't know what you mean Whistle

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Post by doctor_grey Tue 07 Feb 2017, 3:07 pm

SecretFly wrote:That's Doc for you...never off duty.... Cool
Keep in mind: Cash, no cheques.

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Post by LondonTiger Tue 07 Feb 2017, 3:09 pm

doctor_grey wrote:
SecretFly wrote:That's Doc for you...never off duty.... Cool
Keep in mind: Cash, no cheques.  

Something you have in common with other professions - such as strippers and hookers Run

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Post by doctor_grey Tue 07 Feb 2017, 3:12 pm

No9 wrote:6N 2017: England v France, 4 February - Page 10 England_theme_wayfarer_sunglasses_brightways-600x450

Wow.. using those glasses and this is what I can see..

6N 2017: England v France, 4 February - Page 10 Captur11

.... take them off again and I can see..

6N 2017: England v France, 4 February - Page 10 Wooden-spoon

Spooky.. Whistle
Hey, I want a p[air of those glasses!
Anything to help people see the world with much greater clarity. Helps achieve 'total consciousness'.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Tue 07 Feb 2017, 3:33 pm

No9 wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:Well that escalated, I though he was trying to make a valid contribution.

The award to the worst attempt at a wum on 606 today..........goes to No9!

Congratulations that man clap

WUM - don't know what you mean Whistle

Haha...wasn't me orificer...honest.

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