Lions week 1

Its well documented that Gatland, a winning Lions coach, is an unbiased equal opportunities selector, a believer in form, who will treat this 6 Nations as an extended audition for the series.

He is going to pick a form Lions side and won't be shy of slaughtering sacred cows like he has in the past. Neither Best nor Hartley did their Captaincy bids much cop this week and  with his winning Lions captain experience, at the moment it's very much Alun Wyn's to lose.

So, picked a Lions side based on who played in position of each week's 6 Nations and see where we're at by the end:

Week 1.

1. McGrath
2. Best
3. Furlong
4. AWJ (Capt.)
5. Gray
6. Warburton
7. SOB
8. Heaslip
9.  Murray
10. Russell
11. North
12. Farrell
13. Henshaw
14. Williams
15. Hogg

Bench: Mullan, Hartley, Cole, Itoje, Haskell, Webb, S Davies, Daly.

Forwards: Some controversial picks. I think the Irish front row is an outstanding unit at the moment and Best marginally edges Hartley who is a must for his abrasiveness but needs to just play as we know he can and stop biting.
Gray and AWJ in the engine room is about work rate and unseen defense. Itoje is clearly knocking loud and he and Gray almost certainly will be the 2 and 3 with AWJ.
Warburton had a cracker without the captaincy and if he maintains this level of performance, with his Lions experience, will start at 6 or 7 but Haskell and Stander are up there on the blind side.
SOB is the best of a poor showing and if he remains injury free he gets the nod. Tipuric deserves a mention but i think he may not have the required physicality. Warburton's ability to cover both may guarantee him a place in the 23.
Honestly Heaslip because i couldn't pick anyone else and the Lions 8 will be Billy or Taulupe anyway.

Backs: Likewise Murray is the standout 9 with Webb threatening and Care a distinct outside bet. If Laidlaw had another gear I'd pick him for his boot and leadership. Youngs was poor.
10 was a shocker this week but Russell's hands are sweet. S Davies had a superb game but Ford was terrible. IMO if fit it is Jonny's spot but Farrell may well start here as he has the sort of abrasive confidence and tactical nous required.
If not 10 then Farrell will be 12, its that simple.
Henshaw has to be the pick. JD2 had a good game but passes so badly. I'd like to see Joseph claim this spot over the next few weeks.
Liam Williams got one score and nearly two; his sheer will to win in every collision and every high ball is staggering. He offers most at 15 but is such a talismanic player that I am sure he will figure.
North showed that he only needs a sniff of space and he will finish even when injured.. He has the Lions experience, pace and power. An exceptional player...if he can stay fit.
Hogg. What need you say? Best back 3 by far and second to Captain, is the first name on my team sheet.

Bench: lots of big English impact which could be crucial. Mullan was superb in his cameo and my bolter up front. Itoje will either bench or start for sure. Haskell's versatility, Super rugby experience and physicality in the collision could make a real difference in the last 1/3rd. Webb's my pick but Care fizzes and equally possible. Davies was spectacular, my backs bolter, uber flat and kicks tactical like Carter. Daly just has an X factor and offers a secondary siege gun boot to Farrell.

Why yet another thread?

What basis is this picked on? You say at the top that this team is "a Lions side based on who played in position of each week's 6 Nations". Is it picked solely from the weekend's starters but not based purely on how they performed?

It would strike me as odd that a team based purely on week 1 form would end up with five Irish forwards and only three Scots in the whole team.

thomh wrote:What basis is this picked on? You say at the top that this team is "a Lions side based on who played in position of each week's 6 Nations". Is it picked solely from the weekend's starters but not based purely on how they performed?

It would strike me as odd that a team based purely on week 1 form would end up with five Irish forwards and only three Scots in the whole team.

I agree. In addition, if it is based on the one match I cannot see how AWJ can have been picked as captain. Did he have to show any inspiring leadership capabilities to beat a pretty poor Italian team?

Cyril wrote:Why yet another thread?

To be fair, the last one is nearing capacity.

Cyril wrote:Why yet another thread?

why not and please dont post here Cyril since, as usual, you have nothing to offer

thomh wrote:What basis is this picked on? You say at the top that this team is "a Lions side based on who played in position of each week's 6 Nations". Is it picked solely from the weekend's starters but not based purely on how they performed?

It would strike me as odd that a team based purely on week 1 form would end up with five Irish forwards and only three Scots in the whole team.

What basis? It's subjective, my picks. 3 Scots in a Lions starting side?!! Cant remember the last time there was one!! Hastings?

You raise an interesting point though. Theoretically after Scotland's performance you'd expect to see more in the pack but they just don't make it….i have a feeling that the same will happen in reality and while we'd like to think form is the primary decider of selection reputation seems to edge it at least for me.

So your selection above is based on reputation?

Jaysus lads - take a sedative. If you don't the OP then don't post anything.

I understand that the thread is essentially a tracker for form week to week throughout the 6N.

A 'team of the week'.

Based on last week's performances and only those, I would go for:

15 Stuart Hogg
14 Sean Maitland
13 Jonathan Davies
12 Scott Williams
11 George North
10 Owen Farrell
09 Greig Laidlaw

08 Nathan Hughes
07 Justin Tipuric
06 Sam Warburton
05 Alun-Wyn Jones
04 Jonny Gray
03 Tadgh Furlong
02 Ken Owen
01 Jack McGrath

16 Joe Marler
17 Rory Best
18 Dan Cole
19 Richie Gray
20 Hamish Watson
21 Rhys Webb
22 Finn Russell
23 Garry Ringrose

Tough to leave out French players - Vakatawa, Picamoles and Guirado in particular were 3 of the very best of the opening weekend.

Gwlad wrote:

thomh wrote:What basis is this picked on? You say at the top that this team is "a Lions side based on who played in position of each week's 6 Nations". Is it picked solely from the weekend's starters but not based purely on how they performed?

It would strike me as odd that a team based purely on week 1 form would end up with five Irish forwards and only three Scots in the whole team.

What basis? It's subjective, my picks. 3 Scots in a Lions starting side?!! Cant remember the last time there was one!! Hastings?

You raise an interesting point though. Theoretically after Scotland's performance you'd expect to see more in the pack but they just don't make it….i have a feeling that the same will happen in reality and while we'd like to think form is the primary decider of selection reputation seems to edge it at least for me.

I'm not saying your selection is necessarily wrong, I just wasn't sure what it was. It didn't look like a team picked purely based on week 1 performances, but "week 1" is in the title, so I was just hoping you'd clarify whether this was your general selection for who'd be in your team, or whether you were planning to do some week-by-week tracker of who performs well in each game.

I personally can't see Farrell starting at 12 unless Ford is at 10. So many of the backline selections will be interdependent. All you can really say for sure is that Gatland will want one of Sexton, Farrell and Halfpenny in the team. If he wants halfpenny at 15 then Ford could start. If he wants Sexton at 10 then Hogg could start. If he wants Ford at 10 then Farrell could start at 12 and Hogg at 15.

George Carlin wrote:Jaysus lads - take a sedative. If you don't the OP then don't post anything.

I understand that the thread is essentially a tracker for form week to week throughout the 6N.

A 'team of the week'.

Based on last week's performances and only those, I would go for:

15 Stuart Hogg
14 Sean Maitland
13 Jonathan Davies
12 Scott Williams
11 George North
10 Owen Farrell
09 Greig Laidlaw  

08 Nathan Hughes
07 Justin Tipuric
06 Sam Warburton
05 Alun-Wyn Jones
04 Jonny Gray
03 Tadgh Furlong
02 Ken Owen
01 Jack McGrath

16 Joe Marler
17 Rory Best
18 Dan Cole
19 Richie Gray
20 Hamish Watson
21 Rhys Webb
22 Finn Russell
23 Garry Ringrose

Tough to leave out French players - Vakatawa, Picamoles and Guirado in particular were 3 of the very best of the opening weekend.

 That's worse than Gwlady's side. If that's possible

Who were the movers and shakers after week 2?

Gwalad


If this is your test team? I would swap Warburton for CJ Stander.

Russell would be no where near the squad. 10 would be one of Sexton, Ford, Biggar.

Heaslip? He maybe an old Lion  But would swap him for perhaps Moriarty, Hughes.


You have on the bench S Davies. Surely you are not serious?

I see you have AWJ has captain. At this moment for me that is still to be decided.


But in all honesty i do not see that team doing the All Blacks over.

The Great Aukster wrote:Who were the movers and shakers after week 2?

Based purely on last weeks games -

1. Marler
2. Owens
3. Furlong
4. Launchbury
5. Gray
6. Stander
7. Warburton
8. Moriarty

9. Murray
10. Biggar
11. Zebo
12. Williams
13. Ringrose
14. Maitland
15. Kearney

chris_501 wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:Who were the movers and shakers after week 2?

Based purely on last weeks games -

1. Marler
2. Owens
3. Furlong
4. Launchbury
5. Gray
6. Stander
7. Warburton
8. Moriarty

9. Murray
10. Biggar
11. Zebo
12. Williams
13. Ringrose
14. Maitland
15. Kearney

Interesting selection. Also because despite being on the loosing side there are 5 welsh against 2 English. I know this is related to the high profile actions of those players but if they were on the losing side then maybe we are not basing our selections on the right things? Either that or this selection suggests that the other Welsh players were so poor that they dragged their average level below England - whose overall performance was therefore more consistent but with less stand out performances.

lostinwales wrote:

chris_501 wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:Who were the movers and shakers after week 2?

Based purely on last weeks games -

1. Marler
2. Owens
3. Furlong
4. Launchbury
5. Gray
6. Stander
7. Warburton
8. Moriarty

9. Murray
10. Biggar
11. Zebo
12. Williams
13. Ringrose
14. Maitland
15. Kearney

Interesting selection. Also because despite being on the loosing side there are 5 welsh against 2 English. I know this is related to the high profile actions of those players but if they were on the losing side then maybe we are not basing our selections on the right things? Either that or this selection suggests that the other Welsh players were so poor that they dragged their average level below England - whose overall performance was therefore more consistent but with less stand out performances.

I think you are right, I cannot think of an England player who had a bad game, however there were quite a few 7/10 performances. On the Welsh side, the performance levels from 1-15 varied a lot more.

The only Welsh player whose English counterpart could be debated to have performed better in that team is Scott Williams, and I felt that his decisive part in the Welsh try, in addition to the rest of his performance, slightly outweighed that of Farrell. Despite his fantastic pass in the England counterattack that led to Daly's try, had Liam Williams been out on the right wing instead of Cuthbert, the try may have been prevented, and thus Wales may have won. Therefore, would that make a 5-2 ratio better?

That is the great thing about picking our Lions teams, it's the 9/10 players that will make up the majority of the team! But just remember, it is only my opinion!

chris_501 wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

chris_501 wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:Who were the movers and shakers after week 2?

Based purely on last weeks games -

1. Marler
2. Owens
3. Furlong
4. Launchbury
5. Gray
6. Stander
7. Warburton
8. Moriarty

9. Murray
10. Biggar
11. Zebo
12. Williams
13. Ringrose
14. Maitland
15. Kearney

Interesting selection. Also because despite being on the loosing side there are 5 welsh against 2 English. I know this is related to the high profile actions of those players but if they were on the losing side then maybe we are not basing our selections on the right things? Either that or this selection suggests that the other Welsh players were so poor that they dragged their average level below England - whose overall performance was therefore more consistent but with less stand out performances.

I think you are right, I cannot think of an England player who had a bad game, however there were quite a few 7/10 performances. On the Welsh side, the performance levels from 1-15 varied a lot more.

The only Welsh player whose English counterpart could be debated to have performed better in that team is Scott Williams, and I felt that his decisive part in the Welsh try, in addition to the rest of his performance, slightly outweighed that of Farrell. Despite his fantastic pass in the England counterattack that led to Daly's try, had Liam Williams been out on the right wing instead of Cuthbert, the try may have been prevented, and thus Wales may have won. Therefore, would that make a 5-2 ratio better?

That is the great thing about picking our Lions teams, it's the 9/10 players that will make up the majority of the team! But just remember, it is only my opinion!

I agree with WOL (a first!) the 2 English locks and Daly should be there.Daly had a hand in both tries and ran down Biggar. The 3 defining moments in the game. Our locks work rate made up for our outgunned back row.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

chris_501 wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

chris_501 wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:Who were the movers and shakers after week 2?

Based purely on last weeks games -

1. Marler
2. Owens
3. Furlong
4. Launchbury
5. Gray
6. Stander
7. Warburton
8. Moriarty

9. Murray
10. Biggar
11. Zebo
12. Williams
13. Ringrose
14. Maitland
15. Kearney

Interesting selection. Also because despite being on the loosing side there are 5 welsh against 2 English. I know this is related to the high profile actions of those players but if they were on the losing side then maybe we are not basing our selections on the right things? Either that or this selection suggests that the other Welsh players were so poor that they dragged their average level below England - whose overall performance was therefore more consistent but with less stand out performances.

I think you are right, I cannot think of an England player who had a bad game, however there were quite a few 7/10 performances. On the Welsh side, the performance levels from 1-15 varied a lot more.

The only Welsh player whose English counterpart could be debated to have performed better in that team is Scott Williams, and I felt that his decisive part in the Welsh try, in addition to the rest of his performance, slightly outweighed that of Farrell. Despite his fantastic pass in the England counterattack that led to Daly's try, had Liam Williams been out on the right wing instead of Cuthbert, the try may have been prevented, and thus Wales may have won. Therefore, would that make a 5-2 ratio better?

That is the great thing about picking our Lions teams, it's the 9/10 players that will make up the majority of the team! But just remember, it is only my opinion!

I agree with WOL (a first!) the 2 English locks and Daly should be there.Daly had a hand in both tries and ran down Biggar. The 3 defining moments in the game. Our locks work rate made up for our outgunned back row.

Agreed. I thought the WOL was surprisingly even handed vs some serious newspapers and their 'Wales were robbed' articles. We all have our national bias but I saw a brutal and evenly matched contest for most of the game. England won because of two things
1) English defense (especially discipline) negated the pressure that Wales exerted for much of the 2nd half
2) Wales played for 75 minutes. England for 80. I really thought Wales started to crumble in those last few minutes. England kept going and were looking increasingly dangerous as time wore on.

lostinwales wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

chris_501 wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

chris_501 wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:Who were the movers and shakers after week 2?

Based purely on last weeks games -

1. Marler
2. Owens
3. Furlong
4. Launchbury
5. Gray
6. Stander
7. Warburton
8. Moriarty

9. Murray
10. Biggar
11. Zebo
12. Williams
13. Ringrose
14. Maitland
15. Kearney

Interesting selection. Also because despite being on the loosing side there are 5 welsh against 2 English. I know this is related to the high profile actions of those players but if they were on the losing side then maybe we are not basing our selections on the right things? Either that or this selection suggests that the other Welsh players were so poor that they dragged their average level below England - whose overall performance was therefore more consistent but with less stand out performances.

I think you are right, I cannot think of an England player who had a bad game, however there were quite a few 7/10 performances. On the Welsh side, the performance levels from 1-15 varied a lot more.

The only Welsh player whose English counterpart could be debated to have performed better in that team is Scott Williams, and I felt that his decisive part in the Welsh try, in addition to the rest of his performance, slightly outweighed that of Farrell. Despite his fantastic pass in the England counterattack that led to Daly's try, had Liam Williams been out on the right wing instead of Cuthbert, the try may have been prevented, and thus Wales may have won. Therefore, would that make a 5-2 ratio better?

That is the great thing about picking our Lions teams, it's the 9/10 players that will make up the majority of the team! But just remember, it is only my opinion!

I agree with WOL (a first!) the 2 English locks and Daly should be there.Daly had a hand in both tries and ran down Biggar. The 3 defining moments in the game. Our locks work rate made up for our outgunned back row.

Agreed. I thought the WOL was surprisingly even handed vs some serious newspapers and their 'Wales were robbed' articles. We all have our national bias but I saw a brutal and evenly matched contest for most of the game. England won because of two things
1) English defense (especially discipline) negated the pressure that Wales exerted for much of the 2nd half
2) Wales played for 75 minutes. England for 80. I really thought Wales started to crumble in those last few minutes. England kept going and were looking increasingly dangerous as time wore on.

On point 1) I agree, I thought both defences were excellent throughout. On point 2), I don't think it was so much that they stopped playing. Maybe they should have, with Davies looking to kick out! Up until the Sinckler's turnover, they were making ground up the pitch looking for the winning try, I simply think that England's replacements out performed Wales'. Haskell, George and Teo were brilliant, Faletau, Baldwin and Roberts not so much. Add in Care and Sinckler, and they all had a positive impact. They would certainly make my team of the week replacements.

I would have AWJ as a non playing Tour Captain as I believe he should tour because of his previous Lions experience & undoubted leadership qualities.
He isn't a guaranteed test starter, imo & in a position of real strength he wouldn't have to be shoehorned into the side at the expense of a more deserving starter.
He may of course make the starting side as injuries & form affect selection.
The playing captain is far from certain as is the starting 23. However, right now of the potential captains & near certain starters Owen Farrell has to be favourite.
Warburton,AWJ,Best & Hartley aren't in the category of definite starters......currently.

It will be Warburton, mark my words

Gwlad wrote:It will be Warburton, mark my words

Having seen your 6 Nations predictions you're overdue getting something right.

Cyril wrote:

Gwlad wrote:It will be Warburton, mark my words

Having seen your 6 Nations predictions you're overdue getting something right.

wow you actually ferret around looking for other people's predictions on a rugby forum….not much going on at home eh!

Gwlad wrote:

Cyril wrote:

Gwlad wrote:It will be Warburton, mark my words

Having seen your 6 Nations predictions you're overdue getting something right.

wow you actually ferret around looking for other people's predictions on a rugby forum….not much going on at home eh!

Nah, just saw where you were placed in the table.

For someone who claims to know it all  that's not a very good showing.

You're probably right about Warburton though. It is Gats doing the choosing.

Cyril wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

Cyril wrote:

Gwlad wrote:It will be Warburton, mark my words

Having seen your 6 Nations predictions you're overdue getting something right.

wow you actually ferret around looking for other people's predictions on a rugby forum….not much going on at home eh!

Nah, just saw where you were placed in the table.

For someone who claims to know it all  that's not a very good showing.

You're probably right about Warburton though. It is Gats doing the choosing.

funny, cos i dont give a damn what you know or where you are on the table.

I feel like the posts from people in the bottom third of the prediction table should be automatically hidden unless we choose to view them.

Gwlad wrote:It will be Warburton, mark my words

Unless its AWJ that is.

Still believe?

I can't believe AWJ was overruled by Biggar for that botched line out. I was relived when they didn't take the three and even more relieved when they made a hash of that line out in a very threatening position.

It's not so much about the bad decision, more about being influenced by his peers. Bad decision Alun...

Yes agree. It was the change of decision that shows a weakness imo. He should have had the conversation first but to be persuaded to change his mind by Biggar after he had made the call did not show up well.
The man sausage up therefater just compounded it.

That is 2 games in a row AWJ has made similarly wrong calls. I am slightly surprised Warbs has come out in support of him but that probably says more about Warbs than AWJs.

This tourney was the Lions captaincy extended job interview for AWJ. At this point i'd be inclined to make Warburton skipper of both the lions and Wales again. AWJ made poor decisions in the England game and yes, was shockingly weak in the Scottish game. I just find it hard to believe because whenever i played and there was an option the skipper's word was followed without question. I think Biggar's attitude is very poor, he is so full of himself he thinks he can call these plays.

Biggar is suffering Samson syndrome. Cuts off his locks and loses potency. Where has all the dash and splendour gone?

Or his 'Jack Douglas' impersonation before a place kick?

bigtrevsmac...sam warbs supported the kickers......he has said that 'it is always preferred choice to take a line out at 5 mtrs as a kick in that position is 50/50.....and you would expect a better result from the line out..'...also unfair on biggar ...he does not take goal kicks for wales...halfpenny kicks for goals. halfpenny was at the touch line..retreated after talking to warbs.and had no further input......alynwyn called to kick....halfpenny walked away after input from warbs.... in fairness to biggar all he said after that was to ask alyn wyn ..do you want to go for the corner ? he asked him that 3 times...biggar didn't tell him to go for the corner....halfpenny is the goal kicker...biggar kicks for touch etc. so no way would biggar be asked by awj to kick for goal...why should he be? if half p is the first choice kicker . seems half p didnt want it so biggar took his role which is touch kicker....watch replay..its clear...not impressed with halfp......biggar scapegoat here..whats new!!!!

It's very interesting to read some of the comments here - lots of people seem to believe that there are Lions incumbents and other players need to actively do something superhuman to displace them from the shirts that they are apparently holding by right.

Could not disagree more. Wales are staring down the barrel of 4 defeats in this competition and have only one side in either the Champions Cup or Challenge Cup competitions.

On the basis of what claim will a number of these Welsh players stake their case? I am not wumming - that's just the standard that all teams and players should be held to.

I think that the best Welsh players so far have been Webb, Liam Williams and Justin Tipuric.

gavstar wrote:bigtrevsmac...sam warbs supported the kickers......he has said that 'it is always  preferred choice to take a line out at 5 mtrs  as a kick in that position is 50/50.....and you would expect a better result from the line out..'...also unfair on biggar ...he does not take goal kicks for wales...halfpenny  kicks for goals.   halfpenny was at the touch line..retreated after talking to warbs.and had no further input......alynwyn called to kick....halfpenny walked away after input from warbs.... in fairness to biggar all he said after that was to ask alyn wyn  ..do you want to go for the corner ?  he asked him that 3 times...biggar didn't tell him to go for the corner....halfpenny is the goal kicker...biggar kicks for touch etc.   so no way would biggar be asked by awj to kick for goal...why should he be?  if half p is the first choice kicker . seems half p didnt want it so biggar took his role which is touch kicker....watch replay..its clear...not impressed with halfp......biggar scapegoat here..whats new!!!!

Ok fair enough but it still comes across as indecision & I agree one of the kickers should have stepped up to the plate if the captain has asked for a pen kick.

George Carlin wrote:It's very interesting to read some of the comments here - lots of people seem to believe that there are Lions incumbents and other players need to actively do something superhuman to displace them from the shirts that they are apparently holding by right.

Could not disagree more. Wales are staring down the barrel of 4 defeats in this competition and have only one side in either the Champions Cup or Challenge Cup competitions.

On the basis of what claim will a number of these Welsh players stake their case? I am not wumming - that's just the standard that all teams and players should be held to.

I think that the best Welsh players so far have been Webb, Liam Williams and Justin Tipuric.

Have you not heard? Lawes, Launchbury, Itoje and Kruis are all certs. Yep that's two in the second row and two at centre.

One side each in the Champs/Chumps cup? That's the same amount as Scotland then. There's also two Welsh in the top 4 of the Pro12.

It depends if you pick some players based on reputation. Not a good measure yet not always a bad one as most players don't become awful overnight. Some wouldn't pick Hartley on current form but I will certainly pick him for the Lions. Abrasive and nasty players are needed in abundance when touring NZ. If you're not wumming then I believe you, but you've likely been vocal in the past when a token Scot went on tour. Are Wales fans expected to accept it and not say anything, even when they have had better individual players than most for the past 4 years?

Agreed, but I would add Warburton, Ball and AWJ to that. They could all tour but I'm not sure about making the test team just yet.

George Carlin wrote:It's very interesting to read some of the comments here - lots of people seem to believe that there are Lions incumbents and other players need to actively do something superhuman to displace them from the shirts that they are apparently holding by right.

Could not disagree more. Wales are staring down the barrel of 4 defeats in this competition and have only one side in either the Champions Cup or Challenge Cup competitions.

On the basis of what claim will a number of these Welsh players stake their case? I am not wumming - that's just the standard that all teams and players should be held to.

I think that the best Welsh players so far have been Webb, Liam Williams and Justin Tipuric.

Two sides. Cardiff and Ospreys.

I think Warburton has been ok on the whole too. Maybe Ken, as his lineouts have been pretty accurate generally. Maybe Moriarty might produce another couple of England performances. AWJ has been doing some things well defensively etc.

I'd agree that Wales will end up with one win though. I bet as much before the tournament.

Jeez I forgot Cardiff, IE the Centre of the Universe even existed for a moment...

mikey_dragon wrote:

George Carlin wrote:It's very interesting to read some of the comments here - lots of people seem to believe that there are Lions incumbents and other players need to actively do something superhuman to displace them from the shirts that they are apparently holding by right.

Could not disagree more. Wales are staring down the barrel of 4 defeats in this competition and have only one side in either the Champions Cup or Challenge Cup competitions.

On the basis of what claim will a number of these Welsh players stake their case? I am not wumming - that's just the standard that all teams and players should be held to.

I think that the best Welsh players so far have been Webb, Liam Williams and Justin Tipuric.

Have you not heard? Lawes, Launchbury, Itoje and Kruis are all certs. Yep that's two in the second row and two at centre.

One side each in the Champs/Chumps cup? That's the same amount as Scotland then. There's also two Welsh in the top 4 of the Pro12.

It depends if you pick some players based on reputation. Not a good measure yet not always a bad one as most players don't become awful overnight. Some wouldn't pick Hartley on current form but I will certainly pick him for the Lions. Abrasive and nasty players are needed in abundance when touring NZ. If you're not wumming then I believe you, but you've likely been vocal in the past when a token Scot went on tour. Are Wales fans expected to accept it and not say anything, even when they have had  better individual players than most for the past 4 years?

Agreed, but I would add Warburton, Ball and AWJ to that. They could all tour but I'm not sure about making the test team just yet.

Step awaaaay from Dr James Robson.

It would be criminal if just a token Scot goes on tour this year. A number of them have been putting their hands up for a while, not just this season; Laidlaw, Russell, Hogg, Seymour, J Gray, Watson, Barclay (for me based on club form too). I also like the look of your Welsh player Huw Jones... I think Reid could have an outside chance although I'd sooner have Marler, McGrath and Evans on the plane first.

Well that was an embarrassing weekend for Gats.

Firstly Dan Biggar overrules his captain elect on a key penalty decision, who subsequently botches the lineout drive, en route to getting smashed by the team he intended to pick least players from.

Meanwhile over at twickers his other favored leadership options are exposed as not actually understanding the rules of the game.

Scotland and Ireland are really putting a spanner in the works, I wonder if they will cancel the tour if the Welsh and English lose their remaining games?

On form Hartley shouldn't even tour never mind be captain. Saturday was pretty embarrassing for Hartley though.

R is for Ruck.

My Lions team of round 3

1. Marler
2. Best
3. Fagerson
4. Launchbury
5. Toner
6. Barclay
7. Watson
8. Wilson

9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Daly
12. Henshaw
13. Ringrose
14. Seymour
15. Hogg

A bit of a turn round from round 2.

Very close were Webb, Russell, Warburton and Visser.

Wilson? Shirley not... Heaslip from what I saw although he is quite inconsistent in this year's 6N.

mikey_dragon wrote:Wilson? Shirley not... Heaslip from what I saw although he is quite inconsistent in this year's 6N.

Inconsistent? Heaslip?

Ok.

SecretFly wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Wilson? Shirley not... Heaslip from what I saw although he is quite inconsistent in this year's 6N.

Inconsistent?  Heaslip?

Ok.

He was garbage vs Scotland.

mikey_dragon wrote:Wilson? Shirley not... Heaslip from what I saw although he is quite inconsistent in this year's 6N.

Was between him and Heaslip, Moriarty was quiet, Hughes was poor.

rodders wrote:Well that was an embarrassing weekend for Gats.

Firstly Dan Biggar overrules his captain elect on a key penalty decision, who subsequently botches the lineout drive, en route to getting smashed by the team he intended to pick least players from.

Meanwhile over at twickers his other favored leadership options are exposed as not actually understanding the rules of the game.

Scotland and Ireland are really putting a spanner in the works, I wonder if they will cancel the tour if the Welsh and English lose their remaining games?

cough LAWS cough

I have to say, i thought Murray was fairly quite over the weekend. He's normally shouting at the ref too, wonder if he watched Webb doing it and thought.... i dont want to look like that.