9 Welsh players to go on Lions tour

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Post by international198 on Tue 14 Feb 2017, 8:04 pm

Gethin Jenkins, Alun Wyn Jones, Sam Warburton, Ross Moriarty, Taulupe Faletau, Rhys Webb. Sam Davies, Liam Williams, Scott Williams

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Post by majesticimperialman on Tue 14 Feb 2017, 8:06 pm

Gethin Jenkins Doh Surely Not. picard

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Post by international198 on Tue 14 Feb 2017, 8:07 pm

I think Gethin Jenkins is a good player.

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Post by majesticimperialman on Tue 14 Feb 2017, 8:14 pm

international198 wrote:I think Gethin Jenkins is a good player.

Yes Gethin Jenkins is ( Was ) a good player. But players for the Lions can not be selected on past experience, reputation.

Players for the Lions need to be playing International rugby games, NOW. And Gethin as not played international rugby at all in this years 6ns as he?

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Post by Guest on Tue 14 Feb 2017, 8:31 pm

international198 wrote:Gethin Jenkins, Alun Wyn Jones, Sam Warburton, Ross Moriarty, Taulupe Faletau, Rhys Webb. Sam Davies, Liam Williams, Scott Williams

I would take out of your 9: Gethin, Sam Davies, possibly Moriaty, probably Scott Williams.

I would add in Tipuric and Biggar. Not necessarily to start mind you. Just to tour and then see what happens. Possibly North too. But he's an outside bet due to poor form. Needs to show something in the remaining games. Possibly Halfpenny depending on what other FBs are selected to tour.

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Post by Scottrf on Tue 14 Feb 2017, 8:37 pm

What North poor form? He's been excellent all season.

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Post by lostinwales on Tue 14 Feb 2017, 8:55 pm

50th Lions/Wales thread ffs Rolling Eyes

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Post by Guest on Tue 14 Feb 2017, 9:17 pm

lostinwales wrote:50th Lions/Wales thread ffs Rolling Eyes

Exaggerated tenfold, FFS

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Tue 14 Feb 2017, 10:00 pm

Scottrf wrote:What North poor form? He's been excellent all season.

Scottrf, have you watched many Saints games when he has being playing?

Mind you Picamoles, been good for Saints, outstanding for France. What does that say about motivation at Franklins.

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Post by Scottrf on Tue 14 Feb 2017, 10:07 pm

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:
Scottrf wrote:What North poor form? He's been excellent all season.

Scottrf, have you watched many Saints games when he has being playing?

Mind you Picamoles, been good for Saints, outstanding for France. What does that say about motivation at Franklins.
Of course, every game bar the Exeter one. With terrible ball he's looked to make things happen. See no evidence whatsoever to suggest he's off form. 'Good' is also severely underrating Picamoles for Saints. He's been MOTM or near MOTM pretty much every game.

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Post by Poorfour on Tue 14 Feb 2017, 10:55 pm

Griff wrote:
lostinwales wrote:50th Lions/Wales thread ffs Rolling Eyes

Exaggerated tenfold, FFS

Yup, 0.9 Welsh players on tour sounds about right, given the injury rate.





Sorry, you set it up so beautifully I just had to knock it down.
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Post by Guest on Wed 15 Feb 2017, 9:12 am

Poorfour wrote:
Griff wrote:
lostinwales wrote:50th Lions/Wales thread ffs Rolling Eyes

Exaggerated tenfold, FFS

Yup, 0.9 Welsh players on tour sounds about right, given the injury rate.





Sorry, you set it up so beautifully I just had to knock it down.

Makes you a massive bell, IMO!

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Post by Sgt_Pooly on Wed 15 Feb 2017, 10:07 am

You picked Tom Francis to start for the Lions yesterday, then an hour later you decide he's not one of the Welsh players to tour Headscratch

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Post by geoff999rugby on Wed 15 Feb 2017, 10:23 am

Sam Davies will get in from of all bar two of Farrell, Sexton, Russell, Biggar, Jackson, Ford etc etc - in your dreams
Players who don't start regularly for the country very rarely even make the squad - and definitely not at 10

Moriarty wont make it either

Gethin Jenkins ??? - now you are taking the piss

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Post by pbuk0 on Wed 15 Feb 2017, 11:17 am

Warburton, Faletau, Webb, North, L Williams, Halfpenny, A W Jones will make the squad.
J Davies, Bigger, Tipuric, have a good chance
Scott Williams, Moriarty are outside bets.
So probably 9 or possibly 10 Welsh players will be in the squad.

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Post by TJ on Wed 15 Feb 2017, 12:39 pm

9 welsh players may go on tour - 'cos Gatland is the coach and he likes familiar players but on the showing so far this 6N few of them deserve to do.

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Post by TightHEAD on Wed 15 Feb 2017, 12:50 pm

Gethin Jenkins !

Is there a Old Boys tour of NZ too?
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Post by tigertattie on Wed 15 Feb 2017, 12:51 pm

ahhhh, I've stumbled over V2's "alternative facts" section!
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Post by No9 on Wed 15 Feb 2017, 1:09 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Gethin Jenkins !

Is there a Old Boys tour of NZ too?


No... the last Lions tour to New Zealand (2005) was that when Sir Clive Woodentop turned the tour into a thank you holiday for his England 2003 OLD BOYS..

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Post by TightHEAD on Wed 15 Feb 2017, 1:27 pm

No9 wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Gethin Jenkins !

Is there a Old Boys tour of NZ too?


No... the last Lions tour to New Zealand (2005) was that when Sir Clive Woodentop turned the tour into a thank you holiday for his England 2003 OLD BOYS..

I take it you're not bitter.
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Post by Poorfour on Wed 15 Feb 2017, 2:54 pm

Gatland said before the start of the 6N that he saw England as the core of the squad, followed by Ireland (whereas it had been Wales in 2013).

I know this because I was about 10 feet from him when he said it. I came away convinced that he recognises that the approach he took for Australia won't cut it for NZ and he has a different gameplan in mind. I'd expect quite a different mix of players from last time,
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Post by TJ on Wed 15 Feb 2017, 3:32 pm

I hope you are right poorfour - 'cos if he goes with tactics and selections like last time a 3 nil drubbing is happening

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Post by englandglory4ever on Wed 15 Feb 2017, 4:51 pm

Send all the welsh again. It doesn't matter about actually winning does it?

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Post by Gwlad on Thu 16 Feb 2017, 2:43 am

Sgt_Pooly wrote:You picked Tom Francis to start for the Lions yesterday, then an hour later you decide he's not one of the Welsh players to tour Headscratch

wrong emoji…..we need a head up arse emoji

on Saturday he described Cuthbert as 'faultless' then left him out of his thread which picked a tam to face Scotland while resting Biggar because he deserved it.

He's either attempting to WUM (named Thomas Francis as Lions 1st test starter on another thread) or he may be Rob Howley.

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Post by Gwlad on Thu 16 Feb 2017, 2:48 am

englandglory4ever wrote:Send all the welsh again. It doesn't matter about actually winning does it?

No wrong tour, you're either thinking of 2005 when SCW picked his mates, or 2009 when Vickery and ROG cost us the tour.

Which is why last time Drico got sacked off and the Welsh brought it home, (you're very welcome) thumbsup

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Post by rainbow-warrior on Thu 16 Feb 2017, 4:10 am

On England's show on Saturday it was Wales who lost the game rather than England winning it. In honesty there was nothing in that team that would disturb the AB's that much. A combination of Irish, Welsh and Scottish who are all playing with flair would be the way to go.

Anything in 2017 will out do the farce that was Woodwards Flying Circus in 2005. I was living out here then and what an embarrassment it was.
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Post by BigTrevsbigmac on Thu 16 Feb 2017, 6:53 am

rainbow-warrior wrote:On England's show on Saturday it was Wales who lost the game rather than England winning it.  In honesty there was nothing in that team that would disturb the AB's that much.  A combination of Irish, Welsh and Scottish who are all playing with flair would be the way to go.  

Anything in 2017 will out do the farce that was Woodwards Flying Circus in 2005.  I was living out here then and what an embarrassment it was.

Get over it you lost!

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Post by rainbow-warrior on Thu 16 Feb 2017, 8:18 am

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:
rainbow-warrior wrote:On England's show on Saturday it was Wales who lost the game rather than England winning it.  In honesty there was nothing in that team that would disturb the AB's that much.  A combination of Irish, Welsh and Scottish who are all playing with flair would be the way to go.  

Anything in 2017 will out do the farce that was Woodwards Flying Circus in 2005.  I was living out here then and what an embarrassment it was.

Get over it you lost!

Yup like I said we lost rather than England winning it Smile Even most English know that.
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Post by Scottrf on Thu 16 Feb 2017, 8:22 am

Literally the same thing. If it helps you to tell yourself England didn't win though go ahead.

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Post by TJ on Thu 16 Feb 2017, 10:06 am

welsh playing with flair? Not in the england game they didn't. Everything looked very leaden and predictable

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Post by rainbow-warrior on Fri 17 Feb 2017, 8:21 am

TJ wrote:welsh playing with flair?  Not in the england game they didn't.  Everything looked very leaden and predictable

Hahahaha and you hammered us by one score and that was a Welsh mistake. Proves how outstanding you lot were Smile
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 17 Feb 2017, 8:41 am

For the vast majority of the game you didn't look threatening. Partly down to England's defence and discipline. But TJ doesn't support England or Wales.

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Post by cascough on Fri 17 Feb 2017, 8:48 am

geoff999rugby wrote:Sam Davies will get in from of all bar two of Farrell, Sexton, Russell, Biggar, Jackson, Ford etc etc - in your dreams
Players who don't start regularly for the country very rarely even make the squad - and definitely not at 10

Moriarty wont make it either

Gethin Jenkins ??? - now you are taking the piss

Agreed. Yet another poster picking favorites, whimsical picks or showing nationalistic bias instead of just selecting the players they objectively think are the best.

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Post by Guest on Fri 17 Feb 2017, 9:08 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:For the vast majority of the game you didn't look threatening. Partly down to England's defence and discipline. But TJ doesn't support England or Wales.

Nor did England really, did they? It seemed to be a game played mostly in the trenches. England scored a try on the line Welsh. Not a running rugby-type try but a ground out try early on. England also scored a superb running rugby try at the end to secure the match. Wales scored a nicely worked set move running rugby try by Liam Williams. We arguably had the best moved of the game with Biggar's disallowed try, where we went from our own 22 all the way to your try line and over. Only Webb's last pass of the move (needlessly forward in my opinion) stopped it being an excellent try. Where was England's awesome defence then?!

Disclaimer: just to be ultra clear I'm not saying that England didn't deserve the win. You scored more points, therefore deserved to win. But I'm not sure how you can say we didn't look threatening though? Biggar's disallowed try would have taken us to something like 20-6 in front. But regardless of that, we still led the game from the 15th to the 76th minute. So were England really that threatening either???

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Post by Guest on Fri 17 Feb 2017, 9:09 am

cascough wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:Sam Davies will get in from of all bar two of Farrell, Sexton, Russell, Biggar, Jackson, Ford etc etc - in your dreams
Players who don't start regularly for the country very rarely even make the squad - and definitely not at 10

Moriarty wont make it either

Gethin Jenkins ??? - now you are taking the piss

Agreed. Yet another poster picking favorites, whimsical picks or showing nationalistic bias instead of just selecting the players they objectively think are the best.

Do you mean subjectively? I doubt there's much objective selection that takes place, even by the coaches.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 17 Feb 2017, 9:13 am

Thought England's attacking was more varied and threatening. What did for England most was a really poor exit from our own 22 far too often. But I'm just responding to a line on Wales attack. You can play with flair but we didn't see much of it that match. You can also win games showing few bits of flair of course as demonstrated all the time ie brute strength of forwards etc. Both of these valid both can make excellent teams but that's a secondary point.

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Post by cascough on Fri 17 Feb 2017, 10:13 am

Griff wrote:
cascough wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:Sam Davies will get in from of all bar two of Farrell, Sexton, Russell, Biggar, Jackson, Ford etc etc - in your dreams
Players who don't start regularly for the country very rarely even make the squad - and definitely not at 10

Moriarty wont make it either

Gethin Jenkins ??? - now you are taking the piss

Agreed. Yet another poster picking favorites, whimsical picks or showing nationalistic bias instead of just selecting the players they objectively think are the best.

Do you mean subjectively?  I doubt there's much objective selection that takes place, even by the coaches.  

No I mean objectively.

I'll grant you it's hard to be entirely objective when quantifying something that can't actually be quantified, ie a players ability. But you can use things to get you closer. Like are they experienced, have they played against the top teams, have they beaten the top teams, are they part of an environment that is producing teams that win a lot, what is their kick percentage, what is their tackle percentage, distance covered, rucks hit etc etc.

Not perfect and I agree there will still be some subjectivity in interpreting all of those. What I'm rallying against is people picking players simply because they like them, or they play for their country, or because they are perceived to be a "bit different". I want to win, I've no time for whimsical biased picks.

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Post by Guest on Fri 17 Feb 2017, 10:20 am

cascough wrote:
Griff wrote:
cascough wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:Sam Davies will get in from of all bar two of Farrell, Sexton, Russell, Biggar, Jackson, Ford etc etc - in your dreams
Players who don't start regularly for the country very rarely even make the squad - and definitely not at 10

Moriarty wont make it either

Gethin Jenkins ??? - now you are taking the piss

Agreed. Yet another poster picking favorites, whimsical picks or showing nationalistic bias instead of just selecting the players they objectively think are the best.

Do you mean subjectively?  I doubt there's much objective selection that takes place, even by the coaches.  

No I mean objectively.

I'll grant you it's hard to be entirely objective when quantifying something that can't actually be quantified, ie a players ability. But you can use things to get you closer. Like are they experienced, have they played against the top teams, have they beaten the top teams, are they part of an environment that is producing teams that win a lot, what is their kick percentage, what is their tackle percentage, distance covered, rucks hit etc etc.

Not perfect and I agree there will still be some subjectivity in interpreting all of those. What I'm rallying against is people picking players simply because they like them, or they play for their country, or because they are perceived to be a "bit different". I want to win, I've no time for whimsical biased picks.

Fair enough, and yes I agree. On here though it's very difficult to be objective as we are not in the training environment. The coaches hopefully will have some better objective measures that will hopefully inform their decisions.

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