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Post by themadworldofjb on Fri 17 Feb 2017, 12:30 pm

Afternoon all,

I've been thinking on this a lot at the moment (dangerous I know), but it seems to me that Amir Khan is slowly going the same way as Naz did at the end of his career. I remember on the old 606 when Khan was universally disliked and it took until the Maidana win to really change that.

Khan hasn't been a world champion for about 5 years. Hes fought sparingly and he was always chasing after Floyd and Manny. Hes turned down the chance to fight big names such as Brook, Garcia and I think even Thurman. The only big fight he has had was against Canelo and we all know how that went. Yes he fought Alexander but that is the only marquee win he has had (and I say that sparingly).

It seems to me he has allowed his ego to pumped up to ludicrous levels by his team and he thinks hes the biggest name in boxing just now, much in the same way Naz did. He aint even close. His insistence that he should be paid more than Brook because he is "the A-side" is just beyond stupid.

I used to like Amir a lot and it brought me a lot of heat on the old boards. Now, I feel he has become a parody of himself and I can't respect him. Hes ruined any shot of having a positive legacy and I think the only way to turn that round will be to fight Brook.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Fri 17 Feb 2017, 12:34 pm

I don't see any comparisons really, Naz became quite egotistical but still consistently fought the best there was at Featherweight and won all but one against Barrera. He pretty much quit after that loss but he didn't waste his career waiting for fights that weren't going to happen.

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Post by BoxingFan88 on Fri 17 Feb 2017, 1:05 pm

I think Khan's lack of desire to give the UK fans what they want and being more concerned with America doesn't do him any favours

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Post by horizontalhero on Fri 17 Feb 2017, 1:26 pm

Once he's retired Khan will be seen a better light. I've never really understood why so many people seem to have a problem with him, yes he's got an ego and an over-inflated opinion of himself, and he says some daft stuff sometimes, but that hardly rare in boxing is it is it? I think he generally comes across as a nice guy, and he had a pretty good career. He's always good to watch, rarely in a dull fight, won a handful of titles, fought some good opponents, and showed plenty of bottle. I think his legacy holds up alright in this day and age. Agree it was a shame that he wasted time hanging around for FMJ and MP, but they were the ultimate fight for him and they were tantalizingly close to being made.Hope he gets his shot at Manny.

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Post by EX7EY on Fri 17 Feb 2017, 2:00 pm

He's irrelavent IMO. He hasn't fought anywhere near enough during his peak years. His resume looks ok but it's not great. Maidana his best victory in my opinion and he did well to survive in that fight at one point if memory serves. And Maidana was a very beatable fighter anyway. Went off the boil again with back to back losses to Peterson and Garcia, Never really looked like a good Welterweight since moving up after that.

Think his excuses for not fighting Brook are just daft now. Khan is a Welterweigh, Brook holds a belt at Welterweight, Brook wants to voluntarily defend his belt in a massive all British clash, why on Earth would you not take the fight. It's a career high payday, in a career defining fight, for a title in the division you compete in, and there is GENUINE bad blood to boot. It's an absolute no brainer. Trying to take 70% is ludicris as much as it is insulting to Brook. The reason they are asking for 70% is because they want to price themselves out, at least for the time being.

People keep talking about Khan being the draw, i don't see it. Why is he the draw? He's literally famous for having a glass chin these days. I'm not interested in hearing about who is more well known 'outside of boxing', that's celebrity status and nothing more. If it's really such an issue about him being the bigger name, take 60-40, you know Kell and Hearn would give it up for 60-40 if the numbers add up. Would Khan get paid 70-30 in his favour against any of the other belt holders NOT A CHANCE. So why should he expect it against Brook? He's an imbecile. What are you doing in boxing if you don't want to fight for titles. Brook is giving him the opportunity to become a two weight world champion and actually be able to back up his overly high opinion of himeself. He doesn;t want it because all he is these days is a money fighter, nothing more and once he gets dropped by Brook it's game over.

He shouldnt even be mentioned in the same breath as Naz!

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Post by catchweight on Fri 17 Feb 2017, 2:43 pm

If he was a money fighter only then wheres the logic in him turning down a Brook fight.

Hes guilty of having an over inflated sense of his ability and status in the game. But hes not wanting for bottle.

I think the Brook fight will happen if Brook gets past Spence (or possibly even if he doesnt).

Khan is still a big draw in boxing, like him or lump him. Thats the reason Brook and Matchroom are chasing the fight so hard. They know it sells big.

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Post by EX7EY on Fri 17 Feb 2017, 2:51 pm

Im not going to question his bottle, everyone who steps in the ring has bottle though lets be fair. But I know what you're getting at.

The logic is when he gets a pasting off Kell the whole Charade is over, the big fights are gone.

I think he's waiting for a call from Pacman because he thinks the Brook fight is there regardless. If Khan faces Brook now and loses, where does he have left to go? With the infrequency of his fights there's no chance of a rebuilding phase again, it's game over.

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Post by BoxingFan88 on Fri 17 Feb 2017, 3:19 pm

I love watching Khan fight, the problem is that he has mostly forgotten his UK fan base, he rarely fights over here

And big fights we want to see he doesn't deliver on them

He talks so much about how he could beat Brook and he isn't on the level, alright, then prove it!

Easy money right?

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Post by catchweight on Fri 17 Feb 2017, 4:50 pm

I dont think Khans career is over if he loses to Brook. He is an entertaining fighter and will generally make a good opponent for someone.

I genuinely think he has aimed at the biggest name because he believes thats the company he belongs with. He has been like that ever since he went pro.

The contradiction for me is people saying that hes only interested in pay day fights, yet he wants to avoid Brook. Brook is the payday fight for him. If he only cared about money then that would be the fight for him. He has been targetting fights like Pacquiao, Mayweather and Alvarez - the biggest names in the division (and tougher fights than Brook). This is because he believes these are the elite guys where he belongs.

Brook has only just started to emerge from the boxing doldrums. He never had the prestige of any of the big names. He never offered a springboard to one of the top names that Khan was trying to get to because he was unknown in the States.

In terms of Khan being irrelevant, I dont think that stacks up. Which is why Brook and Matchroom are chasing the fight so hard.

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Post by Guest on Fri 17 Feb 2017, 5:16 pm

No,his career won't be over if he loses to Brook. He has a pretty good dance routine all ready ,should he get the "Chicken Tonight " advert.
Um...I'm like the above posters who is fed up with Khan. And Naz had a much better array of talents.

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Post by milkyboy on Sat 18 Feb 2017, 8:08 am

I don't see the naz comparison, but that apart some good posts on here. I've always been a Khan defender. I think he's full of belief inhimself and believes he's at the top table, and wants to fight the big names...  that gets people's goat and I get why, but I think he's a nice enough lad who's just a bit thick and puts his foot in his mouth.

As a fighter I really like watching him, his fights are never dull... partly because he lets his hands go and partly  because of the 'what if' factor about his chin meaning you're always thinking the opponent is in the fight.

There's no way he's scared of brook, I think he has loads of bottle. In fact I think weak chinned, light handed fighters in general need loads of bottle. You step through the ropes knowing you are going 12 rounds unless you get knocked out. To know that like Khan does and still let your hands go takes a bravery that 'iron chinned warriors' don't need. People like to laugh at chinny fighters, they joke about it and question their manliness, but it's a physiological thing they can do little about.

Having said all of that he's wasted a lot of his career chasing the huge fights and like most i'm pretty bored with him now. It's obvious he thinks the brook fight is always there for him, but for it to bring maximum exposure requires him to still have relevance and brook to be at the height of his profile. That's probably now.

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Post by compelling and rich on Sat 18 Feb 2017, 9:40 am

i too like to watch khan but as milky alludes to the whole khans entertaining to watch is mainly down to having a weak chin and knowing that any no mark can change the fight with one punch. hardly something you should be praising a boxer for.

since garcia hes been dining out on weak punchers up untill canelo. thats four years of his prime fighting nobodys while shouting out every top name he can. easy to see why fans gets frustrated

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Post by catchweight on Sat 18 Feb 2017, 10:02 am

He spent those years taking the fight he was given to put him int he shop window for a Mayweather fight. If those guys were nobodies, then what would Brooks opponents be called?

Khan was unlucky not to land the Mayweather was fight. He was offered it at one point only to be passed over at the last minute. He was no less less deserving than a whole host of boxers that have landed fights with Mayweather or Pacquiao (Im thinking Algieri, Maidana, Rios, Ortiz, Berto, Guerrero and these kind of opponents). He was willing to make a big jump up to take on Alvarez when the opportunity was given to him.

I get why people dont like him. He talks likes he is an elite boxer and he says some daft stuff. But I think he gets a hard time for his career and for trying to land the biggest names. Especially in relation to Brook who has genuinely wasted a portion of his career taking on poor fights and defences when Khan was out there trying to land the biggest names in the sport.

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Post by compelling and rich on Sat 18 Feb 2017, 10:22 am

he avoided anybody with a punch while calling out the best in the business. hardly forcing mayweather into a corner. and to say mayweather fought no better in that time is no excuse for khan.two wrongs dont make a right, mayweather has been criticized plenty for his matchmaking. still doesnt mean khan had a right to sit it out while waiting for mayweather like he had some devine right. khans last good win was in 2010, 7 years ago.

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Post by catchweight on Sat 18 Feb 2017, 10:46 am

Khan is just coming off a fight with a big punching middleweight so not really.

Khan didnt avoid anyone. He took the fights he was told to that would land him a Mayweather fight. He didnt sit out of anything. He actually passed up the chance to fight for the title Brook holds now becaue he was told he would be fighting Mayweather. He signed the contract for the fight. He got shafted over. I dont think people get that. If you want to fight Mayweather, you have to play by the rules. Deserving or not doesnt come into it. At least he was trying to get those fights.

Brooks team was turning down Tim Bradley during this period so he could fight crappy IBF eliminators designed to land him a fight with Devon Alexander, the weakest chmpion out there.

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Post by compelling and rich on Sat 18 Feb 2017, 11:12 am

he cashed in against canelo we all know that.

how do you know khan didnt avoid anyone (apart from the bit where you said he avoided brook?). majority of that last post is all conjecture. you dont know any of that for sure. he may well have signed a contract to fight mayweather, but what good is that if the other fighter hasnt agreed to fight him? i can sign a piece of paper in the office now saying i'll fight joshua for 10 million quid, will still mean diddly squat


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Post by catchweight on Sat 18 Feb 2017, 11:33 am

I see so when he takes on a big puncher its cashing in and no evidence at all of willingness to fight big punchers on Khans part. Nice.

I know for sure he was offered terms to fight Mayweather by Mayweathers team (this was widely reported at the time). He signed up to it but Mayweather changed his mind and went for Maidana instead. Are you suggesting that Khan drafted the contract himself and signed it?

There is no real conjecture around Khans ambition and career path. It was designed to land him a fight with Mayweather which bad luck and bad timing played a part in preventing. Was he kept away from big punchers? Sure he was. He was given the kind of fights he could excel in to put him in the shop window. That was down to his promotionl and mangement team. The guy has proven that he wants and will fight the best. There is no conjecture in that. All of the accusations that he never deserved shot at Mayweather, he shouldnt have been chasing the fight etc are rubbish.

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Post by milkyboy on Sat 18 Feb 2017, 11:42 am

Thing is if you're chasing a big fight, being told you're going to get it, then being told you'll be next in line... your team aren't going to put you in with a banger in the interim. I have some sympathy with his situation... in hingsight though he hung on too long. Personally I think mayweather didn't fancy it... because stylistically Khan presented a different challenge than his normal choices.

I also don't think he cashed in against canelo, I don't think brook did against golovkin. I think both believed they could win... and their team felt they could take the money against a name fighter at a higher weight without a loss affecting their career. Don't get me wrong, both fighters saw the dollar signs but I think they believe in themselves and want big fights (brook has only recently shown this trait but fair play).

Maybe I'm just having a day where I see the good in people, which is unusual for me!

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Post by compelling and rich on Sat 18 Feb 2017, 11:49 am

yeah im stuck in work on a saturday which isnt leading to the greatest of moods but khan and brook both cashed in for me against canelo/ggg

plenty of other good fights khan could have taken in the years he was waiting for mayweather. brook/garcia rematch/pac all would have been great paydays and big profile fights. just cant understand why anyone would wait around and stall their career four years waiting on mayweather of all people.

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Post by catchweight on Sat 18 Feb 2017, 12:00 pm

Well I mean if you are not going to hang around and wait for the biggest money fight against the biggest name in boxing who is at the very top of the tree then who are you going to wait on?

I can definately see why Khan and his team did what they did - and still are to an extent.

I think hes unfarily pilliored for simply having ambition that outstretches his ability. Even at 140lbs, he was still in there trying to unify the division and get the biggest names. He chased Bradley to unify the division. He took belts off Judah and Kotelnik. He took on Garcia for the WBC. I wish Brook and his team had been half as ambitious.

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Post by compelling and rich on Sat 18 Feb 2017, 12:29 pm

khan has been spouting mayweather and pacs name while still fighting the willy limonds, he's always had delusions of grandeur. ambition is great but shouldn't have a adverse effect on your career. think he hides behind shouting out mayweather too much for my liking. how close it was who knows but it hasnt happened and thats all the record books will show. khan has done nothing of note in 7 years yet people are still defending him, i dont get it. cant all be mayweathers fault

kotelnik was a decent win (One i was ringside for). not sure how anyone can say judah was a great win. he was well shot by then, only had a belt by beating the great mabuza? judah was the easiest possible route to a belt


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Post by catchweight on Sat 18 Feb 2017, 12:43 pm

Did anyone say Judah was a great win? It was a step in unifying the division.

What was the adverse effect on Khans career chasing Mayweather? He had 4 or 5 straight wins during that period. He scored a big fight against Alvarez. He has another big fight against Brook waiting in the wings. He would make a good opponent for any of the current welterweight champions.

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Post by compelling and rich on Sat 18 Feb 2017, 12:48 pm

he's fought no one of note while waiting for mayweather, beating 4 nobodies means nothing, if he wanted to prove his worth in the division after the garcia loss it certainly wasnt the way to do it. only after the mayweather "fight" fell through he took the risk of canelo. and i doubt even the biggest khan fan gave him a chance in that one. so now he's still not fought mayweather, still hasnt a decent win on his record during the time he chased the fight. would hardly say it was a great period in his career

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Post by catchweight on Sat 18 Feb 2017, 1:02 pm

Nah. He was in good, entertaining fights with boxers like Diaz and Algieri. He had two excellent performances over Alexander and Collazo. It was as successful period as any during his career.

Hes accused of wasting his time chasing the big names like Pacquiao and Mayweather. Hes accused of cash grab when he faced big puncher. Hes accused of fighting nobodies in between. A case of damned if he does, damned if he doesnt.

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Post by Baby faced assassin on Sat 18 Feb 2017, 2:27 pm

Calling out Pacquiao, Mayweather, Canelo etc doesn't show ambition, every single boxer alive at 135 to 160 has done that as it's high reward low risk. Lose those fights so what? Nothing happens you just continue your career

It's the fact he's called them out while fighting once a year against sub standard and tailor made fighters and has avoided genuinely interesting fights to ensure he doesn't lose the big low risk paydays.

I mean he was awful against Diaz and pretty poor against Algieri and neither of them are even close to world class. Alexander is an ok fighter but stylistically perfect for him and Collazo was just not good enough (actually think that's a really good win)

But he's hypocritical, he says so much about others fighters not being his class etc then moans when it doesn't go his way

And he always says he fights the best which is pure and simply a lie. Like maidana was the big scary puncher and kudos to him. But Peterson isn't exactly a big name and he was a huge favourite to beat Garcia. Judah and Kotelnik are the best at 140....really tho

I mean he's got a couple good wins but his ledger doesn't make great reading. Maidana is hands down his best win, then maybe Collazo, Alexander then Judah. And that's his best 4 wins.......
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Post by catchweight on Sat 18 Feb 2017, 2:50 pm

Im not here to argue Khan is a great fighter or his record is a great record. I think hes a pretty good fighter with a pretty good record.

I think he has been ambitious as opposed to the accusation hes just chasing pay days. He tried to unify the 140 division. Didnt work out for him, so he moved up. Hes gone after the biggest names and followed the career path set out to land those fights. The same as plenty of others. He has just been slated for it unfairly as being unworthy or deluded when he is as qualified as most others who have landed a shot. Why wouldnt he go after it and take the fights he is told to take when its dangled in front of him?

If Khan is going to take a pasting for his career then I dont think Brook is the guy that should be the measuring stick until he can put together a few meaningful wins himself.

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Post by compelling and rich on Sat 18 Feb 2017, 3:09 pm

we havent brought up brook, other than me once as a viable opponent. we can bring up khan without mentioning brook. they've not become mayweather and manny just yet have they?

you say he chases the big names, if you listen to him you might believe it. when in reality the only big fights he's fought are canelo and possibly garcia (who had only just picked up a belt and wasnt widely regarded as he is now) kudos for maidana fight as a test of his chin but not really sure that was a "big" fight. wasn't much before that maidana was being beaten by kotelnik.

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Post by catchweight on Sat 18 Feb 2017, 3:28 pm

If you follow boxing, you will know hes chased the big names and that when hes been presented with the opportunity hes grabbed it.

Its an injustice to Khan to portray him as some kind of cash grabbing cynic who is afraid of a real challenge or anyone who can punch and has wasted his career chasing pipe dreams. He has aimed for the top divisional fighters in the divisions he has competed in and been willing to fight whoever they ask him to to get there.

Could his management have picked more dangerous fighters for him long the way? Im sure they could have. Is Khan guilty of overestimating his own ability. I think so. But that can be said of the majority of fighters out there.

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Post by compelling and rich on Sat 18 Feb 2017, 3:43 pm

khan isnt on his own thats for sure, majority of boxers who can pick the path of least resistance do it. its why majority of boxing is sh!t these days. but i cant buy into khan chased all the big fights and took all comers on

just looks at the facts of who he has fought not who he has tried to "fight". he's took three risks in his career. maidana, canelo and garcia (who i dont think khan thought was as big a risk as it turned out). there isnt another puncher other than prescott, so i cant buy into he fights anyone and isnt careful with his matchmaking

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Post by catchweight on Sat 18 Feb 2017, 4:10 pm

Well I dont really agree with that and the implied assumption that unless a boxer is a big puncher then Khan isnt really taking any risks facing them. And I dont believe its Khan who decides who he should fight in any case. If it was then he would have fought Mayweather and Pacquiao. I think its well known hes at risk to big hitters, and as a result his team will generally avoid those fights unless there is worthwhile compensation like with Alvarez. Especially when they are trying to secure a fight with the biggest name in boxing. Thats not the same as Khan, himself, refusing these fights though. He has been in with big hitters when they have been presented to him.

I totally disagree with the opinion that Khan is boxer that wont fight certain guys because he is afraid of big punchers and will only fight other guys as cynical cash making ploys. I think hes wanted the biggest fights and will fight whoever is put in front of him to make it happen. I also totally sympathise with his efforts to get the Mayweather fight at a time when meritocrousy had little to do with getting the fight. It was his dream fight. It was dangled in front of him. And he followed the path he was told to in order to make it happen. That it didnt hppen was just bad luck for Khan. Mayweather ended fighting a guy twice that Khan had beaten previously instead.



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