Newport Gwent Dragons 2016/17 thread

[Luckless Pedestrian]

First topic message reminder :

I understand that some players haven't had a break for a while, but still, either it's a must-win game (with a bonus point) or it isn't.

[munkian]

Team would be called the Dragons

“That’s one of the big emotive topics. Our sense is that this team will be called the Dragons.
“That’s not trying to set up Gwent against Newport or anything like that. We need to get over the name thing quickly.
“I totally get the connection of the various names involved. People understand Gwent has a team called the Dragons.
“We are regional rugby, we’re not super clubs.”
Martyn Phillips


'We feel we have a responsibility to step in'



“When you look at the deal the only real justification we can have is for rugby. We feel we have a responsibility to step in.

“This is for Gwent, we have 73 clubs there and we feel this is the right thing to do for the county.

“We want to safeguard Newport RFC’s ability to continue to play at Rodney Parade.

“We want to engage the whole of Gwent behind the professional entity.

“We want four professional regions in Wales. We’re working very hard to make that work. It’s a very challenging environment at the moment.

“We put a lot of pressure on the Ospreys and the Scarlets to help with the main Welsh team.

“Equally, the Dragons region has been very successful at producing age-group players and Sevens players.”

Martyn Phillips

[Guest]

"Gwent WRagUns."

[munkian]

"Gwent WRagUns."

Gwent Wagons has a ring to it.

[Cardiff Dave]

"We’re doing this for rugby reasons. I’ve heard a lot of nonsense that this is a property deal."

Ha! CCS was a "rugby decision".
Sharpen your wands. It aint over yet.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Oh well then, what is the new name going to be ?

"the WRU Dragons" ?

The New Fast Automatic Dragons.

[Cardiff Dave]

The 2nd True Region.

[Cardiff Dave]

As ever, the Devil's in the detail which is still lacking it seems. Should hear more today I spose....

I was wrong. Should've known better I guess.
Just buckets of empty rhetoric (Rogerspeak). More emphasis on Terabithia however. Tried that before though.

[Cardiff Dave]

Trust me, i'm a ..........

[wayne]

I wonder if the likes of Mike Cairns ex Gwent County Hooker, will now visit RP if the "Newport" name is taken out?

[Guest]

I wonder if the likes of Mike Cairns ex Gwent County Hooker, will now visit RP if the "Newport" name is taken out?

I doubt it. My experience is that people like that will always find a new excuse not to attend. He'll probably say that he cannot step foot in a union owned and controlled region, or something similar.

[Stone Motif]

I wonder if the likes of Mike Cairns ex Gwent County Hooker, will now visit RP if the "Newport" name is taken out?

I doubt it. My experience is that people like that will always find a new excuse not to attend. He'll probably say that he cannot step foot in a union owned and controlled region, or something similar.

About as likely as the other 72 grounds of Gondor getting flogged off to the WRU for the good of the region.

[Cardiff Dave]

Twitter's been interesting over the last few days. Monday's meeting at Rodders could get heated. I predict a riot.

[Cardiff Dave]

I wonder if the likes of Mike Cairns ex Gwent County Hooker, will now visit RP if the "Newport" name is taken out?

I doubt it. My experience is that people like that will always find a new excuse not to attend. He'll probably say that he cannot step foot in a union owned and controlled region, or something similar.

Sounds like the ooky and kooky, Dragons Family is a tad dysfunctional. Much like the blooos family, in a way.

[munkian]

This is pure spank bank material for certain twitter users, very bitter individuals trying to push their own agenda.

[Kingshu]

I know there are some that hate the WRU take over, but I'm positive about what it will bring.
I can only look at it from a Pro 12 League basis.

Firstly without this take over, Dragons at best would have hovered around the bottom of the table with the Italians, they have been up for sale long enough to suggest there were no takers willing to take a risk on them.

I think that under Rodger I would have been worried about the WRU takeover, but the new WRU do appear to want to improve the regions, this is a great opportunity for them to show how its done, I am hoping for the kind of investment that the IRFU put into Connacht a few years ago, and hopefully we see the same kind of improvement, and I think Dragons fans will be happy with that.
“Initially we will focus on consolidating a high performance environment for the players and on ensuring high quality coaching."
That sounds like a good base, and similar to Connachts first investments in 2009, create the faculties and it makes attracting the players you wish easier, and developing them better, get the right coaches in for underage, strength conditioning etc and build it up from a solid base.

It sounds all very positive for Dragons in the Pro 12, I know some may be annoyed that Newport RFU will no longer own Rodney parade, and Newport will no longer be in the name etc, but from outside Wales I really don't care about Newport RFC, I want to see a strong Dragons side, and this appears to be the first steps towards this happening.
I'm more than happy that NGD will not be a superclub, but a region, there will be fans that are against that, but if Dragons start winning more games and looking at playoffs, they will soon change their tune.
Is it not better to have a WRU owned Dragons, pushing for playoff spots, than having a Newport owned and centered team near the bottom of the table each year?

[munkian]

Thing is, unless WRU take over there won't be a professional team in Newport/Gwent full stop.

NPRFC would also need to sell the ground and play elsewhere.

[Guest]

Thing is, unless WRU take over there won't be a professional team in Newport/Gwent full stop.

NPRFC would also need to sell the ground and play elsewhere.

Yeah, I agree. While I'm very sceptical of a WRU takeover due to historical issues, given a choice of a pro team at RP vs none at all then I'm willing to go with it and see what happens. It's been getting harder and harder to support the Dragons and remain enthusiastic so at least this gives hope of something different. It will be initeteetdd to see how the new side is marketed - name, kit, playing games on the road, sold to fans around the region, etc. The current Dragons do all of that already, but minus the taking games on the road bit. Will be interesting to see what change of approach they'll employ.

Of course, I'd expect a drop off in fans for a while. We'll now lose a load of current fans who will not support a WRU owned side, such is the way with some Welsh rugby fans. And I don't think we'll get many more from around the region. At least not straight away. Just dropping Newport in the title will not see fans flood in.

[munkian]

Thing is, unless WRU take over there won't be a professional team in Newport/Gwent full stop.

NPRFC would also need to sell the ground and play elsewhere.

Yeah, I agree. While I'm very sceptical of a WRU takeover due to historical issues, given a choice of a pro team at RP vs none at all then I'm willing to go with it and see what happens. It's been getting harder and harder to support the Dragons and remain enthusiastic so at least this gives hope of something different. It will be initeteetdd to see how the new side is marketed - name, kit, playing games on the road, sold to fans around the region, etc. The current Dragons do all of that already, but minus the taking games on the road bit. Will be interesting to see what change of approach they'll employ.

Of course, I'd expect a drop off in fans for a while. We'll now lose a load of current fans who will not support a WRU owned side, such is the way with some Welsh rugby fans. And I don't think we'll get many more from around the region. At least not straight away. Just dropping Newport in the title will not see fans flood in.

Success attracts fans - look at Ulster and Glasgow.

Success will help attract possible investors too.

To disband the Dragons' just because they don't wear the colours you like or have Newport in the name is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[Kingshu]

I hope that the Dragons start showing signs of improvement quickly, its easy for fans to knock them while they are down at the bottom, but if they climb the table next season, making Rodney parade a difficult place to visit, and having a good home win %, I think fans will return. After all if you average 5400 for being a next to bottom team, you should be able to attract this back and more by winning games at home.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Martin Phillips:

"We are not going to these lengths and making this level (of) investment for anything other than the long-term health of rugby in Gwent".

"I genuinely don't want to try and convince them because I respect their decision and it's their choice.

"But what I would say is that we have done everything we can to try and make this attractive for a range of stakeholders, whether that's Gwent as a rugby entity, the professional entity of the Dragons, Newport RFC having their historical home preserved.

"There is quite a lot of things to balance but we have come up with something that we hope can work for everybody.

"The alternative is just beyond me. The difficult thing is that in a way people are going to have to take us on trust. You need to trust us that we have gone to these lengths because we are desperately serious about rugby in Gwent.

"It comes down to a choice and we would never want to force people or try to oversell something. We are setting the facts out as we see them, then people make a choice and we all have to live with the consequences.

"Historical events have got us to where we are today. All I can do is try to give a solution for the future but it's impossible to give everybody what they want, we are trying to navigate our way through to the best of our ability.

"I know that I can look myself in the mirror and say that I have done the best I possibly can in the situation. If people choose to not do it then I can live with it, but what I couldn't live with is just watching it go down."

http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/dragons/15174480.Go_ahead_for_Dragons_takeover_comes_down_to_trust__admits_WRU_boss_Phillips/

[Stone Motif]

Thing is, unless WRU take over there won't be a professional team in Newport/Gwent full stop.

NPRFC would also need to sell the ground and play elsewhere.

Except for the fact that Davies is on record saying the ground wasn't part of the deal when they were hunting for private investment. I wonder why that was?

[Stone Motif]

I hope that the Dragons start showing signs of improvement quickly, its easy for fans to knock them while they are down at the bottom, but if they climb the table next season, making Rodney parade a difficult place to visit, and having a good home win %, I think fans will return. After all if you average 5400 for being a next to bottom team, you should be able to attract this back and more by winning games at home.

The home win percentage isn't really a problem

[Guest]

The pessimist in me wants to believe that the WRU are only saying all of this, and only pretending to be interested in Gwent rugby, because they are confident that the NRFC shareholders will reject the deal, any deal, and they can then continue with their project of starting a new WRU owned region at a location of their choosing, e.g. North Wales. But that would be a big gamble if they didn't really want rugby in Gwent and were only paying it lip service. If the shareholders do accept the deal then they'd be duty bound to follow it through. So for that reason I think the sound bites from the WRU are genuine and they do want rugby at RP and Gwent to have a pro rugby presence, based in Newport.

I know I'm leaving myself open to abuse here, but genuine question: am I being gullible?!

[munkian]

No, I think other people are being paranoid.

A North Wales region is mental considering a region in South Wales is on its last legs.

[Kingshu]

The pessimist in me wants to believe that the WRU are only saying all of this, and only pretending to be interested in Gwent rugby, because they are confident that the NRFC shareholders will reject the deal, any deal, and they can then continue with their project of starting a new WRU owned region at a location of their choosing, e.g. North Wales. But that would be a big gamble if they didn't really want rugby in Gwent and were only paying it lip service. If the shareholders do accept the deal then they'd be duty bound to follow it through. So for that reason I think the sound bites from the WRU are genuine and they do want rugby at RP and Gwent to have a pro rugby presence, based in Newport.

I know I'm leaving myself open to abuse here, but genuine question: am I being gullible?!

Could be right, I think the WRU are wanting to develop the Dragons in Gwent as it does have a lot of potential so the sound bite is real and what they wish to do. However if they are rejected they can say they tried and did their best and move to plan B of RCG1404.

They have nothing to lose by saying they wish to support Gwent they do and will invest, however if rejected they can say they pledged to help but were rejected and have to move on.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

The pessimist in me wants to believe that the WRU are only saying all of this, and only pretending to be interested in Gwent rugby, because they are confident that the NRFC shareholders will reject the deal, any deal, and they can then continue with their project of starting a new WRU owned region at a location of their choosing, e.g. North Wales. But that would be a big gamble if they didn't really want rugby in Gwent and were only paying it lip service. If the shareholders do accept the deal then they'd be duty bound to follow it through. So for that reason I think the sound bites from the WRU are genuine and they do want rugby at RP and Gwent to have a pro rugby presence, based in Newport.

I know I'm leaving myself open to abuse here, but genuine question: am I being gullible?!

If you're being gullible, I'm being gullible too.

I just don't believe the WRU would go to the lengths of buying Rodney Parade, taking on all the Dragons' players and staff as employees, and installing a new artificial pitch if their intention is to close the region down and make RGC1404 the new fourth region. As well as being an absurdly elaborate plan, I doubt they've got the money to d!ck about like that.

[munkian]

Plus there is no hope in hell of gogledd cymru sustaining a region.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Well there's that too.

[Guest]

But if a North Wales region is to be fully funded by the WRU, as they would the Dragons, then I can't see why it couldn't be sustained in the north? They could attract a similar crowd to us couldn't they?

[munkian]

But if a North Wales region is to be fully funded by the WRU, as they would the Dragons, then I can't see why it couldn't be sustained in the north? They could attract a similar crowd to us couldn't they?

No, it's football country. Plus where would the players come from ?

[Guest]

But if a North Wales region is to be fully funded by the WRU, as they would the Dragons, then I can't see why it couldn't be sustained in the north? They could attract a similar crowd to us couldn't they?

No, it's football country.

Yeah, I understand that. Guess I'm basing it on them seeming to have a decent crowd at Wales u20 games at Parcelforce Eirias. Not a great indicator I admit.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

But if a North Wales region is to be fully funded by the WRU, as they would the Dragons, then I can't see why it couldn't be sustained in the north? They could attract a similar crowd to us couldn't they?

To get to that point, the Dragons would have to have failed under the ownership of the WRU. (Assuming 75% of Newport RFC shareholders vote in favour of the deal.)

They do get good crowds for the Under-20s, but it doesn't necessarily follow that they'd get good crowds for regional games.

[munkian]

But if a North Wales region is to be fully funded by the WRU, as they would the Dragons, then I can't see why it couldn't be sustained in the north? They could attract a similar crowd to us couldn't they?

No, it's football country.

Yeah, I understand that. Guess I'm basing it on them seeming to have a decent crowd at Wales u20 games at Parcelforce Eirias. Not a great indicator I admit.

Where would the players come from ?

[LordDowlais]

Plus there is no hope in hell of gogledd cymru sustaining a region.

Why ?

Where would the players come from ?

Bala RFC
Bethesda RFC
Bro Ffestiniog RFC
Caernarfon RFC
COBRA
Colwyn Bay RFC
Denbigh (DInbych) RFC
Dolgellau RFC
Llandudno RFC
Mold RFC
Nant Conwy RFC
Pwllheli RFC
Ruthin RFC
Abergele RFC
Harlech RFC
Llangefni RFC
Machynlleth RFC
Menai Bridge RFC
Newtown RFC
Rhyl and District RFC
Shotton Steel RFC
Wrexham RFC
Bangor RFC
Bangor University RFC
Benllech RFC
Flint RFC
Holyhead RFC
Llangollen RFC
Llanidloes RFC
Porthmadog RFC
Rhosllanerchrugog RFC
Welshpool RFC

Plenty of clubs up north to support a region. Not as much as Gwent, thus why I am happy to see Dragons saved, there is a lot more potential in Gwent. But lets not right off the Gogs all together, there is interest up there as we see with the U21's. They would more than likely throw the same support behind a fully pro RGC1404 as well.

[munkian]

Sorry, I meant professional players who have a remote chance of competing in the Pro12 and Europe.

[Steffan]

Personally I don't think a North Wales region would be any worse than Newport have been over the last 14 years

I'd rather a development outfit up there than any south Wales team constantly floating around the bottom of the Pro 12

[Steffan]

Sorry, I meant professional players who have a remote chance of competing in the Pro12 and Europe

Something the Dragons have lacked for the past 14 years then?

[Luckless Pedestrian]

We did get to the semi-finals of the Challenge Cup two seasons in a row. But I'm guessing that doesn't count as 'competing in Europe'.

[LordDowlais]

Sorry, I meant professional players who have a remote chance of competing in the Pro12 and Europe.

And where do Dragons get all these players from ?

[Steffan]

We did get to the semi-finals of the Challenge Cup two seasons in a row. But I'm guessing that doesn't count as 'competing in Europe'.

True. But imagine how strong you would be if you joined forces with the Blues. You could compete all the time then and play on a nice pitch

[Luckless Pedestrian]

You can do better than that, Steffan!

[Kingshu]

Does having a list of clubs in the area to draw players from really help?

Most players now joining a Pro team come up through academies, the clubs only really help late developers, and the best players in the Welsh Prem could be picked up by any team could they not?

If this isn't how it is already, its the way that its going, a strong academy is more important that having strong clubs below.

[LordDowlais]

Does having a list of clubs in the area to draw players from really help?

Most players now joining a Pro team come up through academies, the clubs only really help late developers, and the best players in the Welsh Prem could be picked up by any team could they not?

If this isn't how it is already, its the way that its going, a strong academy is more important that having strong clubs below.

I think you would need clubs to send these players out to so they get exposure, also they would need to be affiliated to the clubs. What is needed if there is a pro team in North Wales is more North Wales clubs in the Welsh Premiership.

[LordDowlais]

We did get to the semi-finals of the Challenge Cup two seasons in a row. But I'm guessing that doesn't count as 'competing in Europe'.

True. But imagine how strong you would be if you joined forces with the Blues. You could compete all the time then and play on a nice pitch

Like Ponty were told to do.

[Stone Motif]

But if a North Wales region is to be fully funded by the WRU, as they would the Dragons, then I can't see why it couldn't be sustained in the north? They could attract a similar crowd to us couldn't they?

No, it's football country.

Yeah, I understand that. Guess I'm basing it on them seeming to have a decent crowd at Wales u20 games at Parcelforce Eirias. Not a great indicator I admit.

Where would the players come from ?

They'd have the same squad, minus anyone good, and with less money to recruit.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Nice easy game against Ulster tomorrow. Payne and Henderson straight back in:

Dragons: C Meyer, A Hughes, T Morgan, S Beard, T Prydie, A O’Brien, C Davies, S Hobbs, R Buckley, B Harris, N Crosswell, R Landman, O Griffiths, N Cudd, L Evans (captain). Replacements: D Harris, P Price, L Fairbrother, M Screech, H Keddie, S Pretorius, D Jones, A Warren.

Ulster: J Payne, C Gilroy, L Marshall, D Cave, C Piutau, S Olding, R Pienaar, A Warwick, R Herring (captain), W Herbst, K Treadwell, A O’Connor, I Henderson, C Henry, S Reidy. Replacements: J Andrew, C Black, R Ah You, R Diack, C Ross, P Marshall, P Jackson, J Stockdale.

[munkian]

Nice easy game against Ulster tomorrow. Payne and Henderson straight back in:

Dragons: C Meyer, A Hughes, T Morgan, S Beard, T Prydie, A O’Brien, C Davies, S Hobbs, R Buckley, B Harris, N Crosswell, R Landman, O Griffiths, N Cudd, L Evans (captain). Replacements: D Harris, P Price, L Fairbrother, M Screech, H Keddie, S Pretorius, D Jones, A Warren.

Ulster: J Payne, C Gilroy, L Marshall, D Cave, C Piutau, S Olding, R Pienaar, A Warwick, R Herring (captain), W Herbst, K Treadwell, A O’Connor, I Henderson, C Henry, S Reidy. Replacements: J Andrew, C Black, R Ah You, R Diack, C Ross, P Marshall, P Jackson, J Stockdale.

Ulster, we sh*t em

[munkian]

When the hell is Amos back ?

[Stone Motif]

Plus there is no hope in hell of gogledd cymru sustaining a region.

Why ?

Where would the players come from ?

Bala RFC
Bethesda RFC
Bro Ffestiniog RFC
Caernarfon RFC
COBRA
Colwyn Bay RFC
Denbigh (DInbych) RFC
Dolgellau RFC
Llandudno RFC
Mold RFC
Nant Conwy RFC
Pwllheli RFC
Ruthin RFC
Abergele RFC
Harlech RFC
Llangefni RFC
Machynlleth RFC
Menai Bridge RFC
Newtown RFC
Rhyl and District RFC
Shotton Steel RFC
Wrexham RFC
Bangor RFC
Bangor University RFC
Benllech RFC
Flint RFC
Holyhead RFC
Llangollen RFC
Llanidloes RFC
Porthmadog RFC
Rhosllanerchrugog RFC
Welshpool RFC

Plenty of clubs up north to support a region. Not as much as Gwent, thus why I am happy to see Dragons saved, there is a lot more potential in Gwent. But lets not right off the Gogs all together, there is interest up there as we see with the U21's. They would more than likely throw the same support behind a fully pro RGC1404 as well.

Yeah, exactly the same way sh1tpatch clubs generate players for the south Wales regions, only with less of a population base and playing in poorer competitions. Oh and people would flood to watch exactly like everyone who clamours for Six Nations tickets can't weight to buy a season ticket for one of the regions. Do you actually believe the stuff you write on here?

[Luckless Pedestrian]

When the hell is Amos back ?

'WALES wing Hallam Amos won’t make his return from a shoulder injury for at least another month and Newport Gwent Dragons must also cope without speedster Ashton Hewitt in Glasgow this weekend.

'Amos has been out of action since suffering an injury while attempting to score against Australia at Principality Stadium in November.

'The 22-year-old had initially been targeting a February comeback after going under the knife but is now unlikely to be back before the April 8 encounter with Zebre in the Guinness PRO12 at the earliest.'

http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/15126363.Dragons_and_Wales_wing_Amos_delayed_in_return_from_injury/

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