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Newport Gwent Dragons 2016/17 thread

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 12 Jan 2017, 2:18 pm

First topic message reminder :

I understand that some players haven't had a break for a while, but still, either it's a must-win game (with a bonus point) or it isn't.

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Post by munkian Thu 23 Mar 2017, 4:56 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
munkian wrote:When the hell is Amos back ?

'WALES wing Hallam Amos won’t make his return from a shoulder injury for at least another month and Newport Gwent Dragons must also cope without speedster Ashton Hewitt in Glasgow this weekend.

'Amos has been out of action since suffering an injury while attempting to score against Australia at Principality Stadium in November.

'The 22-year-old had initially been targeting a February comeback after going under the knife but is now unlikely to be back before the April 8 encounter with Zebre in the Guinness PRO12 at the earliest.'

http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/15126363.Dragons_and_Wales_wing_Amos_delayed_in_return_from_injury/

Ta
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Post by LordDowlais Thu 23 Mar 2017, 4:57 pm

Stone Motif wrote:They'd have the same squad, minus anyone good, and with less money to recruit.

They would have the same money as Dragons will potentially get from the WRU.

Stone Motif wrote:Yeah, exactly the same way sh1tpatch clubs generate players for the south Wales regions, only with less of a population base and playing in poorer competitions. Oh and people would flood to watch exactly like everyone who clamours for Six Nations tickets can't weight to buy a season ticket for one of the regions. Do you actually believe the stuff you write on here?

You seriously need a personality transplant. What a keyboard warrior you are. If you spoke to people like this in the real world you would end up getting your ears swapped around on a regular basis. Rolling Eyes

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Post by Guest Thu 23 Mar 2017, 5:51 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
Griff wrote:But if a North Wales region is to be fully funded by the WRU, as they would the Dragons, then I can't see why it couldn't be sustained in the north? They could attract a similar crowd to us couldn't they?

To get to that point, the Dragons would have to have failed under the ownership of the WRU. (Assuming 75% of Newport RFC shareholders vote in favour of the deal.)

They do get good crowds for the Under-20s, but it doesn't necessarily follow that they'd get good crowds for regional games.

No, what I meant was North Wales being an option NOW, instead of the Dragons take over (if the shareholders poo poo the idea). My point being if the WRU bankroll the Dragons to the tune of whatever it is that is deemed necessary to do well in the pro 12 and Europe then bankrolling that in North Wales, West Wales, wherever could be sustained because the WRU coffers are sustaining it. But if no one will watch it up there (I assumed they might be able to attract a 5k crowd like us) then that would dent the WRU coffers more so than it would if they bankrolled the Dragons with our ready made minimum 5-6k crowd.

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Post by Guest Thu 23 Mar 2017, 5:57 pm

munkian wrote:
Griff wrote:
munkian wrote:
Griff wrote:But if a North Wales region is to be fully funded by the WRU, as they would the Dragons, then I can't see why it couldn't be sustained in the north? They could attract a similar crowd to us couldn't they?

No, it's football country.

Yeah, I understand that. Guess I'm basing it on them seeming to have a decent crowd at Wales u20 games at Parcelforce Eirias. Not a great indicator I admit.

Where would the players come from ?

Same place as now I guess. The WRU would 'send' players North for pro contracts, would tap into local North Walians and would try to stem the flow of players from the north across the border to teams like sale and Leicester as there's nothing for them up there currently. Plus, if the WRU are to be believed, then they'd be spending up to the salary cap which would give them more money for players than the Dragons currently has. So they'd probably have a better squad than the Dragons currently has, arguably.

I'm not for a north Wales region. Just suggesting that if the WRU, rather than a sugar daddy, is bankrolling it then it seems like it could be sustainable wherever you place it. It's when the sugar daddies are involved and start losing money that things become 'unsustainable' and they cut their losses by walking away and selling up.

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Post by Stone Motif Thu 23 Mar 2017, 6:26 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:They'd have the same squad, minus anyone good, and with less money to recruit.

They would have the same money as Dragons will potentially get from the WRU.

Stone Motif wrote:Yeah, exactly the same way sh1tpatch clubs generate players for the south Wales regions, only with less of a population base and playing in poorer competitions. Oh and people would flood to watch exactly like everyone who clamours for Six Nations tickets can't weight to buy a season ticket for one of the regions. Do you actually believe the stuff you write on here?

You seriously need a personality transplant. What a keyboard warrior you are. If you spoke to people like this in the real world you would end up getting your ears swapped around on a regular basis. Rolling Eyes

Yeah. No.

The WRU do not invest any more than a pittance. The woefully inadequate budget level will be maintained. They have other responsibilities plus PRW to keep happy. Then we factor in smaller support base and sponsorship potential and hey ho, someone needs a brain transplant right after the personality transplant is finished. My idiocy threshold is also pretty low bar in the real world, thanks.
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Post by Stone Motif Thu 23 Mar 2017, 6:29 pm

Griff wrote:
munkian wrote:
Griff wrote:
munkian wrote:
Griff wrote:But if a North Wales region is to be fully funded by the WRU, as they would the Dragons, then I can't see why it couldn't be sustained in the north? They could attract a similar crowd to us couldn't they?

No, it's football country.

Yeah, I understand that. Guess I'm basing it on them seeming to have a decent crowd at Wales u20 games at Parcelforce Eirias. Not a great indicator I admit.

Where would the players come from ?

Same place as now I guess. The WRU would 'send' players North for pro contracts, would tap into local North Walians and would try to stem the flow of players from the north across the border to teams like sale and Leicester as there's nothing for them up there currently. Plus, if the WRU are to be believed, then they'd be spending up to the salary cap which would give them more money for players than the Dragons currently has. So they'd probably have a better squad than the Dragons currently has, arguably.

I'm not for a north Wales region. Just suggesting that if the WRU, rather than a sugar daddy, is bankrolling it then it seems like it could be sustainable wherever you place it. It's when the sugar daddies are involved and start losing money that things become 'unsustainable' and they cut their losses by walking away and selling up.

They would have the same squad as the Dragons minus anyone wanted elsewhere. You need a pro academy to build a pro player base so they'd be stuck with the dregs for a min of three years .

The rest of Europe is encouraging private investment for a reason....
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Post by Guest Thu 23 Mar 2017, 7:40 pm

The problem for Dragons is that the required level of private investment hasn't materialised. The current model isn't working for them, nobody seems interested in taking them over, but the WRU.

The WRU must be given a chance, or Dragons will simply cease to exist. There is no credible alternative, although I do understand why that doesn't sit well for some.

I hope the Dragons get the required 75% of the vote to allow a WRU take over, in order to survive, and the vote isn't one of 'cutting off the nose to spite the face'.

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Post by Guest Thu 23 Mar 2017, 7:59 pm

The problem is that this is going to a vote of Newport RFC shareholders, and not Dragons shareholders (of which there are none as far as I know). While there will be a lot of Newport RFC shareholders who have an interest in the Dragons there will also be a lot that have no interest at all. Quite a few Newport RFC fans did not agree with regional rugby and did not/do not choose to support the Dragons as a side. However, due to the proposed deal they're given a vote on the future of a side they perhaps have little vested interest in but also they're voting to sign away their own club's key asset (Newport RFC's Rodney Parade). What a mess! I have a few friends and acquaintances that are Newport RFC fans ONLY and not Dragons fans, and I can imagine them not caring one jot if the Dragons were to fold but at the same time would not want to either sign away their stadium OR lose Newport RFC. If they vote to save Newport RFC from possible closure then they're voting to keep the Dragons AND sign over RP to the WRU; if they vote no to the takeover then probably vote for the demise of Newport RFC, demise of the Dragons (for which they won't care) and the eventual sale of RP to property development. Tough position to be in.

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Post by Stone Motif Thu 23 Mar 2017, 8:18 pm

Munchkin wrote:The problem for Dragons is that the required level of private investment hasn't materialised. The current model isn't working for them, nobody seems interested in taking them over, but the WRU.

The WRU must be given a chance, or Dragons will simply cease to exist. There is no credible alternative, although I do understand why that doesn't sit well for some.

I hope the Dragons get the required 75% of the vote to allow a WRU take over, in order to survive, and the vote isn't one of 'cutting off the nose to spite the face'.

That's not correct though. They refused to include the land when they were looking for private investment, now they've realised this was the only asset to leverage they've a) got desperate and fallen into the WRU's pockets and b) think they've found to pay off their debts.
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Post by Stone Motif Thu 23 Mar 2017, 8:21 pm

Griff wrote:The problem is that this is going to a vote of Newport RFC shareholders, and not Dragons shareholders (of which there are none as far as I know). While there will be a lot of Newport RFC shareholders who have an interest in the Dragons there will also be a lot that have no interest at all. Quite a few Newport RFC fans did not agree with regional rugby and did not/do not choose to support the Dragons as a side. However, due to the proposed deal they're given a vote on the future of a side they perhaps have little vested interest in but also they're voting to sign away their own club's key asset (Newport RFC's Rodney Parade). What a mess! I have a few friends and acquaintances that are Newport RFC fans ONLY and not Dragons fans, and I can imagine them not caring one jot if the Dragons were to fold but at the same time would not want to either sign away their stadium OR lose Newport RFC. If they vote to save Newport RFC from possible closure then they're voting to keep the Dragons AND sign over RP to the WRU; if they vote no to the takeover then probably vote for the demise of Newport RFC, demise of the Dragons (for which they won't care) and the eventual sale of RP to property development. Tough position to be in.

Like I say, time for the 72 other beneficiaries of this deal to stick their two penneth in. Otherwise NRFC are quite right to tell those picking at the bones of their property to feck off and be quick about it.
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Post by Guest Thu 23 Mar 2017, 8:36 pm

Griff wrote:The problem is that this is going to a vote of Newport RFC shareholders, and not Dragons shareholders (of which there are none as far as I know). While there will be a lot of Newport RFC shareholders who have an interest in the Dragons there will also be a lot that have no interest at all. Quite a few Newport RFC fans did not agree with regional rugby and did not/do not choose to support the Dragons as a side. However, due to the proposed deal they're given a vote on the future of a side they perhaps have little vested interest in but also they're voting to sign away their own club's key asset (Newport RFC's Rodney Parade). What a mess! I have a few friends and acquaintances that are Newport RFC fans ONLY and not Dragons fans, and I can imagine them not caring one jot if the Dragons were to fold but at the same time would not want to either sign away their stadium OR lose Newport RFC. If they vote to save Newport RFC from possible closure then they're voting to keep the Dragons AND sign over RP to the WRU; if they vote no to the takeover then probably vote for the demise of Newport RFC, demise of the Dragons (for which they won't care) and the eventual sale of RP to property development. Tough position to be in.

In that case the big question is, 'what's in it for us?', I suppose. For those that support the Dragons the answer is obvious, but finding a way to get the support of the others may prove very problematic.

From what I understand, if the Dragons fold, the ground will have to be put up for sale? Also that the WRU and the NRFC have come to an agreement for the WRU take-over. So I would think the NRFC will be doing all they can to convince the shareholders to vote in favour, although I haven't a clue as to how influential they are.

Does Rodney depend on the Dragons income? If the Dragons were to fold, what happens to the grounds, in your view?

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Post by Guest Thu 23 Mar 2017, 8:43 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
Munchkin wrote:The problem for Dragons is that the required level of private investment hasn't materialised. The current model isn't working for them, nobody seems interested in taking them over, but the WRU.

The WRU must be given a chance, or Dragons will simply cease to exist. There is no credible alternative, although I do understand why that doesn't sit well for some.

I hope the Dragons get the required 75% of the vote to allow a WRU take over, in order to survive, and the vote isn't one of 'cutting off the nose to spite the face'.

That's not correct though. They refused to include the land when they were looking for private investment, now they've realised this was the only asset to leverage they've a) got desperate and fallen into the WRU's pockets and b) think they've found to pay off their debts.

Yes, I read that on another forum, although there would still be no guarantee that including the sale of ground would attract a private investor for the Dragons. It is the only asset they have, and it does appear that they are in the pockets of the WRU, but that doesn't have to be a bad thing. Certainly better than being forced to sell as a building site, for example.


Last edited by Munchkin on Thu 23 Mar 2017, 8:57 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Post by Cardiff Dave Thu 23 Mar 2017, 8:43 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
Like I say, time for the 72 other beneficiaries of this deal to stick their two penneth in. Otherwise NRFC are quite right to tell those picking at the bones of their property to feck off and be quick about it.

Bucket collections throughout the reejun?
Might be a dumb question, but aren't the WRU with their 50%, partly to blame? Also, didn't the WRU promise to keep the Celtic Warriors going?

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Post by Guest Thu 23 Mar 2017, 8:58 pm

Munchkin wrote:
Griff wrote:The problem is that this is going to a vote of Newport RFC shareholders, and not Dragons shareholders (of which there are none as far as I know). While there will be a lot of Newport RFC shareholders who have an interest in the Dragons there will also be a lot that have no interest at all. Quite a few Newport RFC fans did not agree with regional rugby and did not/do not choose to support the Dragons as a side. However, due to the proposed deal they're given a vote on the future of a side they perhaps have little vested interest in but also they're voting to sign away their own club's key asset (Newport RFC's Rodney Parade). What a mess! I have a few friends and acquaintances that are Newport RFC fans ONLY and not Dragons fans, and I can imagine them not caring one jot if the Dragons were to fold but at the same time would not want to either sign away their stadium OR lose Newport RFC. If they vote to save Newport RFC from possible closure then they're voting to keep the Dragons AND sign over RP to the WRU; if they vote no to the takeover then probably vote for the demise of Newport RFC, demise of the Dragons (for which they won't care) and the eventual sale of RP to property development. Tough position to be in.

In that case the big question is, 'what's in it for us?', I suppose. For those that support the Dragons the answer is obvious, but finding a way to get the support of the others may prove very problematic.

From what I understand, if the Dragons fold, the ground will have to be put up for sale? Also that the WRU and the NRFC have come to an agreement for the WRU take-over. So I would think the NRFC will be doing all they can to convince the shareholders to vote in favour, although I haven't a clue as to how influential they are.

Does Rodney depend on the Dragons income? If the Dragons were to fold, what happens to the grounds, in your view?

I'm not sure what the RP-Dragons deal is. I'm pretty sure the Dragons do not pay rent to use it. Anything generated by the Dragons goes back into the Dragons, which are owned by Newport RFC, but back into the Dragons pot I think. So I'm not sure that NRFC get income from gate receipts, etc. There are function rooms that generate income but that would remain regardless of the dragons.

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Post by Guest Thu 23 Mar 2017, 9:14 pm

Thanks, Griff. Interesting that Dragons don't contribute, in any meaningful way, to Rodney. The pitch is a mess, and maybe the WRU, as part Dragons owners, should have at least invested in a new pitch. That's history, I suppose.

There's still the claim that Rodney would have to be sold off, if the shareholders vote against the WRU. If that's true then the NRFC are out of options, and have no real choice but to accept the offer. The shareholders might not see it that way though. What ever happens, I hope they vote with their heads, after being fully informed of their options. I would hate to see the Dragons fold.

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Post by Stone Motif Thu 23 Mar 2017, 9:31 pm

Munchkin wrote:Thanks, Griff. Interesting that Dragons don't contribute, in any meaningful way, to Rodney. The pitch is a mess, and maybe the WRU, as part Dragons owners, should have at least invested in a new pitch. That's history, I suppose.

There's still the claim that Rodney would have to be sold off, if the shareholders vote against the WRU. If that's true then the NRFC are out of options, and have no real choice but to accept the offer. The shareholders might not see it that way though. What ever happens, I hope they vote with their heads, after being fully informed of their options. I would hate to see the Dragons fold.

The RFC will rightly not trust the WRU and may think if the ground will end up as a building site, they may as well cash in now and start again elsewhere as let the Union cash in when the RSA runs out.
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Post by Stone Motif Thu 23 Mar 2017, 9:34 pm

Munchkin wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
Munchkin wrote:The problem for Dragons is that the required level of private investment hasn't materialised. The current model isn't working for them, nobody seems interested in taking them over, but the WRU.

The WRU must be given a chance, or Dragons will simply cease to exist. There is no credible alternative, although I do understand why that doesn't sit well for some.

I hope the Dragons get the required 75% of the vote to allow a WRU take over, in order to survive, and the vote isn't one of 'cutting off the nose to spite the face'.

That's not correct though. They refused to include the land when they were looking for private investment, now they've realised this was the only asset to leverage they've a) got desperate and fallen into the WRU's pockets and b) think they've found to pay off their debts.

Yes, I read that on another forum, although there would still be no guarantee that including the sale of ground would attract a private investor for the Dragons. It is the only asset they have, and it does appear that they are in the pockets of the WRU, but that doesn't have to be a bad thing. Certainly better than being forced to sell as a building site, for example.

Asking someone to invest against an asset is different to asking them to invest of 50% of a failed business with no assets to speak of. I'm amazed that the ground us suddenly part of the deal when it wasn't before. Stinks worse than the Hazell Terrace bogs.
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Post by prop_lyd Thu 23 Mar 2017, 9:36 pm

Dragons vs Blues game to be played at Caerphilly.
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Post by Guest Thu 23 Mar 2017, 10:09 pm

prop_lyd wrote:Dragons vs Blues game to be played at Caerphilly.

Yeah, nothing to do with take over thing. Clash with the football, who have primacy of tenure. Bizarrely.

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Post by Cardiff Dave Thu 23 Mar 2017, 10:18 pm

Griff wrote:
prop_lyd wrote:Dragons vs Blues game to be played at Caerphilly.

Yeah, nothing to do with take over thing. Clash with the football, who have primacy of tenure. Bizarrely.

Sounds bonkers. Who agreed that arrangement?

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Post by prop_lyd Thu 23 Mar 2017, 10:27 pm

just saw it.on the Caerphilly website, seems to have been snuck in amid the takeover talk.
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Post by Guest Thu 23 Mar 2017, 10:35 pm

prop_lyd wrote:just saw it.on the Caerphilly website, seems to have been snuck in amid the takeover talk.

The clash and decision to move the game was announced about a month ago, but the venue was still to be confirmed. One rumour was Cross Keys' ground!

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Post by Guest Thu 23 Mar 2017, 10:36 pm

Cardiff Dave wrote:
Griff wrote:
prop_lyd wrote:Dragons vs Blues game to be played at Caerphilly.

Yeah, nothing to do with take over thing. Clash with the football, who have primacy of tenure. Bizarrely.

Sounds bonkers. Who agreed that arrangement?

Brown and Hazell I'm guessing, chasing the County rental bucks.

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Post by GavinDragon Thu 23 Mar 2017, 10:39 pm

Munchkin wrote:Thanks, Griff. Interesting that Dragons don't contribute, in any meaningful way, to Rodney. The pitch is a mess, and maybe the WRU, as part Dragons owners, should have at least invested in a new pitch. That's history, I suppose.

There's still the claim that Rodney would have to be sold off, if the shareholders vote against the WRU. If that's true then the NRFC are out of options, and have no real choice but to accept the offer. The shareholders might not see it that way though. What ever happens, I hope they vote with their heads, after being fully informed of their options. I would hate to see the Dragons fold.

That is bull. The income from Dragons' games is the main reason the ground is maintained to the level that it is.


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Post by RiscaGame Thu 23 Mar 2017, 10:50 pm

Not sure I'm too bothered about going to Virginia Park. I'd have thought ECP would be the best option personally.

Can't believe Kingsley has been told keeping Dorian is a conflict of interests. Clearly potential WRU involvement is already a great thing.

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Post by GavinDragon Thu 23 Mar 2017, 10:50 pm

Not sure what I was more shocked by tonight's Q&A; the fact that we were close to signing Scott Fardy, or the fact that Geraint Rhys Jones is leaving the region and they are also looking to move Dorian on!

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Post by RiscaGame Thu 23 Mar 2017, 10:51 pm

Oh and five millions bucks being spent on RP apparently. That's a pitch and a good spruce up.

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Post by GavinDragon Thu 23 Mar 2017, 10:56 pm

4G. All the way.

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Post by Guest Thu 23 Mar 2017, 11:00 pm

Gavin, don't shoot the messenger.
Just trying to find out why the article I read stated that it would sold if the vote went against the WRU.


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Post by GavinDragon Thu 23 Mar 2017, 11:01 pm

Apologies

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Post by Guest Thu 23 Mar 2017, 11:07 pm

No need : )
It's an emotive subject for all involved at RP, I'm sure.

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Post by Cardiff Dave Fri 24 Mar 2017, 7:10 am

GavinDragon wrote:
Munchkin wrote:Thanks, Griff. Interesting that Dragons don't contribute, in any meaningful way, to Rodney. The pitch is a mess, and maybe the WRU, as part Dragons owners, should have at least invested in a new pitch. That's history, I suppose.

There's still the claim that Rodney would have to be sold off, if the shareholders vote against the WRU. If that's true then the NRFC are out of options, and have no real choice but to accept the offer. The shareholders might not see it that way though. What ever happens, I hope they vote with their heads, after being fully informed of their options. I would hate to see the Dragons fold.

That is bull. The income from Dragons' games is the main reason the ground is maintained to the level that it is.


aka Newport RFC 1st XV.

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Post by Cardiff Dave Fri 24 Mar 2017, 7:22 am

Munchkin wrote:Thanks, Griff. Interesting that Dragons don't contribute, in any meaningful way, to Rodney. The pitch is a mess, and maybe the WRU, as part Dragons owners, should have at least invested in a new pitch. That's history, I suppose.

There's still the claim that Rodney would have to be sold off, if the shareholders vote against the WRU. If that's true then the NRFC are out of options, and have no real choice but to accept the offer. The shareholders might not see it that way though. What ever happens, I hope they vote with their heads, after being fully informed of their options. I would hate to see the Dragons fold.

Aye and do what's best for Newport RFC.
Now there's a novelty coz the current mess appears to indicate that doing what's best for Newport RFC, hasn't been much of a priority for a long time.

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Post by Guest Fri 24 Mar 2017, 8:54 am

Cardiff Dave wrote:
Munchkin wrote:Thanks, Griff. Interesting that Dragons don't contribute, in any meaningful way, to Rodney. The pitch is a mess, and maybe the WRU, as part Dragons owners, should have at least invested in a new pitch. That's history, I suppose.

There's still the claim that Rodney would have to be sold off, if the shareholders vote against the WRU. If that's true then the NRFC are out of options, and have no real choice but to accept the offer. The shareholders might not see it that way though. What ever happens, I hope they vote with their heads, after being fully informed of their options. I would hate to see the Dragons fold.

Aye and do what's best for Newport RFC.
Now there's a novelty coz the current mess appears to indicate that doing what's best for Newport RFC, hasn't been much of a priority for a long time.

What do you think is the best thing for Newport RFC, Dave? I'm interested in the opinions of those on the outside: vote for a WRU takeover and therefore sale of RP to the WRU but keep Dragons and, potentially, Newport RFC and Dave Parade going; or vote against the takeover which will lead to the demise of the Dragons, but will retain Dave Parade under the ownership of NRFC but with the strong possibility that it will be sold in the near future to pay off debts.

As I see it Brown and Hazell have put the whole lot up for sale. They want their money back (changed their tune on that in the last few weeks). It's either sold to rugby people (WRU) and is retained for rugby purposes or it goes on general sale and could end up as anything. Developers have been sniffing around RP as a site for flats, Tesco, etc. for a long time.

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Post by Guest Fri 24 Mar 2017, 9:44 am

Hazell: The alternative to Dragons takeover deal is disaster:

"MARTYN Hazell has warned that "the receivers would be in the next day" if the Welsh Rugby Union's proposed deal for Newport Gwent Dragons and Rodney Parade doesn't get the go-ahead.

The governing body have outlined their takeover plan for the Dragons and the famous ground, which is currently owned by Newport RFC.

They have agreed a heads of terms agreement that would see all of the region's staff, players and coaches become WRU employees on July 1.

They intend to drop Newport and Gwent from the name and have a preference to replace the tired surface with an artificial pitch while also investing in the Stadium facilities.

However, any deal needs to be ratified by the shareholders of Newport RFC with an EGM set to take place next month. There are around 1,000 listed and the green light needs to be given by 75 per cent of voters.

Supporters of the Black and Ambers have expressed their concerns about the sale of their club's asset and only having assurances about their future of playing at their historic home rather than a long-term lease.

But the Dragons and Newport are heavily in debt and owe around £1million to the WRU, around £1million to Handelsbanken, around £1.5million to chairman Hazell and £3million to fellow director Tony Brown.

The proposed agreement would see the formation of a new company, a subsidiary of the WRU, that would be free of any historic debt.

"I am happy with this deal, it's the only way forward for rugby at Rodney Parade," said Hazell.

"What's the alternative? Things will all be explained to supporters in the coming weeks and I will go to the EGM but I hope that the members will see sense because the alternative is disaster."

When asked what would happen to the debts if the shareholders do not give their approval, with the suggestion in some quarters that Newport RFC could sell the land themselves to developers to fund a new ground, Hazell said: "The receivers would be in the next day if the vote is no. There would be no money.

"It'd be the end of rugby here. The money that is being put in by the WRU is to pay off the debts and it will nearly all be written off by me and Tony.

"We are giving most of it (the loans) away and will see what we end up with. I can't see any other way, if the shareholders vote not then that's their decision but all we've got then is the receivers."

Stuart Davies, chief executive of Newport and the Dragons, met with regional supporters last night and will field questions from Black and Ambers fans at Rodney Parade on Monday (7pm start). "

http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/dragons/15179069.Hazell__The_alternative_to_Dragons_takeover_deal_is_disaster/

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Post by LordDowlais Fri 24 Mar 2017, 10:12 am

In other words. They want their money, and they want it now.

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Post by Cardiff Dave Fri 24 Mar 2017, 10:15 am

Griff wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:
Munchkin wrote:Thanks, Griff. Interesting that Dragons don't contribute, in any meaningful way, to Rodney. The pitch is a mess, and maybe the WRU, as part Dragons owners, should have at least invested in a new pitch. That's history, I suppose.

There's still the claim that Rodney would have to be sold off, if the shareholders vote against the WRU. If that's true then the NRFC are out of options, and have no real choice but to accept the offer. The shareholders might not see it that way though. What ever happens, I hope they vote with their heads, after being fully informed of their options. I would hate to see the Dragons fold.

Aye and do what's best for Newport RFC.
Now there's a novelty coz the current mess appears to indicate that doing what's best for Newport RFC, hasn't been much of a priority for a long time.

What do you think is the best thing for Newport RFC, Dave?  I'm interested in the opinions of those on the outside: vote for a WRU takeover and therefore sale of RP to the WRU but keep Dragons and, potentially, Newport RFC and Dave Parade going; or vote against the takeover which will lead to the demise of the Dragons, but will retain Dave Parade under the ownership of NRFC but with the strong possibility that it will be sold in the near future to pay off debts.

As I see it Brown and Hazell have put the whole lot up for sale.  They want their money back (changed their tune on that in the last few weeks).  It's either sold to rugby people (WRU) and is retained for rugby purposes or it goes on general sale and could end up as anything.  Developers have been sniffing around RP as a site for flats, Tesco, etc. for a long time.

Dunno at the moment.
Need more info plus facts and figures. Haven't really heard any yet and all of the talk is coming from one side only. I spose independent legal advice for shareholders might be a good idea before the vote.

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Post by Guest Fri 24 Mar 2017, 10:16 am

LordDowlais wrote:In other words. They want their money, and they want it now.

He does say in the article that they're writing off some of the debts, so they are resigned/agreed to not getting it all. But for me what they're saying is that they want their money, they want it now, but they'd prefer that rugby stayed at RP rather than the rugby go and the land be used for property development.

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Post by Kingshu Fri 24 Mar 2017, 11:54 am

I know there is a lot of worry about the WRU owning Dragons and RP, but will this not be set out like the Provinces.
Leinster, Munster and Ulster have no concerns about Thomond, Donnybrook or Ravenhill.
The way I see the take over is that Dragons will be turned into a branch of the WRU, responsible for rugby in Gwent and the professional team.
I know the other teams should be doing this, but I think this really is the WRU setting up a province in Wales, and if they support it like the IRFU does, it can only be a good thing for rugby in Gwent, and the dragons.

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Post by Guest Fri 24 Mar 2017, 2:50 pm

Cardiff Dave wrote:
Munchkin wrote:Thanks, Griff. Interesting that Dragons don't contribute, in any meaningful way, to Rodney. The pitch is a mess, and maybe the WRU, as part Dragons owners, should have at least invested in a new pitch. That's history, I suppose.

There's still the claim that Rodney would have to be sold off, if the shareholders vote against the WRU. If that's true then the NRFC are out of options, and have no real choice but to accept the offer. The shareholders might not see it that way though. What ever happens, I hope they vote with their heads, after being fully informed of their options. I would hate to see the Dragons fold.

Aye and do what's best for Newport RFC.
Now there's a novelty coz the current mess appears to indicate that doing what's best for Newport RFC, hasn't been much of a priority for a long time.

From all the snippets I've picked up, what's best for NRFC is accepting the deal. I don't really know though, but hope the facts confirm as much. The best that can be hoped for is that the deal is best for both, because that should go some way to help ensure the survival of Dragons, in swinging the votes to accept the WRU offer.

It does appear that if no deal is done with the WRU, then both the Dragons and the NRFC are stuffed, and Rodney will be sold to the highest bidder, most likely for property development. If that's true it would be madness for the shareholders to vote against, but we do live in very strange times.

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Post by Guest Fri 24 Mar 2017, 3:36 pm

Reading a lot of comments on other sites (e.g. South Wales Argus) a lot of fans are convinced that all the WRU want is to pick up Rodney Parade at a discount price and then sell it on to developers for a handsome profit in a few years once an agree lease period ends. This demonstrates quite well the level of distrust in the union. Pretty much no-one on the SW Argus comments page thinks the WRU is doing this to 'save' rugby in Gwent. They pretty much ALL think there is an ulterior motive. Can so many people be wrong?

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Post by Cardiff Dave Fri 24 Mar 2017, 3:48 pm

Munchkin wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:
Munchkin wrote:Thanks, Griff. Interesting that Dragons don't contribute, in any meaningful way, to Rodney. The pitch is a mess, and maybe the WRU, as part Dragons owners, should have at least invested in a new pitch. That's history, I suppose.

There's still the claim that Rodney would have to be sold off, if the shareholders vote against the WRU. If that's true then the NRFC are out of options, and have no real choice but to accept the offer. The shareholders might not see it that way though. What ever happens, I hope they vote with their heads, after being fully informed of their options. I would hate to see the Dragons fold.

Aye and do what's best for Newport RFC.
Now there's a novelty coz the current mess appears to indicate that doing what's best for Newport RFC, hasn't been much of a priority for a long time.

From all the snippets I've picked up, what's best for NRFC is accepting the deal. I don't really know though, but hope the facts confirm as much. The best that can be hoped for is that the deal is best for both, because that should go some way to help ensure the survival of Dragons, in swinging the votes to accept the WRU offer.

It does appear that if no deal is done with the WRU, then both the Dragons and the NRFC are stuffed, and Rodney will be sold to the highest bidder, most likely for property development. If that's true it would be madness for the shareholders to vote against, but we do live in very strange times.

Nor me.
Anyway FoNR are meeting the CEO on Monday. Should be tasty.

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Post by Guest Fri 24 Mar 2017, 4:27 pm

Griff wrote:Reading a lot of comments on other sites (e.g. South Wales Argus) a lot of fans are convinced that all the WRU want is to pick up Rodney Parade at a discount price and then sell it on to developers for a handsome profit in a few years once an agree lease period ends.  This demonstrates quite well the level of distrust in the union.  Pretty much no-one on the SW Argus comments page thinks the WRU is doing this to 'save' rugby in Gwent.  They pretty much ALL think there is an ulterior motive.  Can so many people be wrong?

I've been following the online debate and find mixed opinions. Probably a different article, but reading the SWA comments here > Mixed opinions there appears to be a fairly even split. There does appear to be shareholders voting against, some for, but it's anyone's guess as to how the shareholders will vote.

The masses can be wrong, as history confirms, but I think it's the lack of detail on any deal that's causing most angst. Conspiracy theories are usually invented in a void of facts, or facts understood within context, and that's what is happening with those imagining the WRU has devious intent. I also think many of these same people simply don't like Unions, and especially the thought of Union owned teams, and so will be hostile to any WRU take-over.

From what I have gleaned so far there is a simple choice; Vote to save the ground, the Dragons and the NRFC, or vote to end it all. Some of those commenting actually want to vote against saving their own club. That's insane.


Last edited by Munchkin on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 4:53 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Post by Guest Fri 24 Mar 2017, 4:28 pm

Cardiff Dave wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:
Munchkin wrote:Thanks, Griff. Interesting that Dragons don't contribute, in any meaningful way, to Rodney. The pitch is a mess, and maybe the WRU, as part Dragons owners, should have at least invested in a new pitch. That's history, I suppose.

There's still the claim that Rodney would have to be sold off, if the shareholders vote against the WRU. If that's true then the NRFC are out of options, and have no real choice but to accept the offer. The shareholders might not see it that way though. What ever happens, I hope they vote with their heads, after being fully informed of their options. I would hate to see the Dragons fold.

Aye and do what's best for Newport RFC.
Now there's a novelty coz the current mess appears to indicate that doing what's best for Newport RFC, hasn't been much of a priority for a long time.

From all the snippets I've picked up, what's best for NRFC is accepting the deal. I don't really know though, but hope the facts confirm as much. The best that can be hoped for is that the deal is best for both, because that should go some way to help ensure the survival of Dragons, in swinging the votes to accept the WRU offer.

It does appear that if no deal is done with the WRU, then both the Dragons and the NRFC are stuffed, and Rodney will be sold to the highest bidder, most likely for property development. If that's true it would be madness for the shareholders to vote against, but we do live in very strange times.

Nor me.
Anyway FoNR are meeting the CEO on Monday. Should be tasty.

Certainly be interesting, and hopefully much more informative.

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Post by Stone Motif Fri 24 Mar 2017, 5:37 pm

Munchkin wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:
Munchkin wrote:Thanks, Griff. Interesting that Dragons don't contribute, in any meaningful way, to Rodney. The pitch is a mess, and maybe the WRU, as part Dragons owners, should have at least invested in a new pitch. That's history, I suppose.

There's still the claim that Rodney would have to be sold off, if the shareholders vote against the WRU. If that's true then the NRFC are out of options, and have no real choice but to accept the offer. The shareholders might not see it that way though. What ever happens, I hope they vote with their heads, after being fully informed of their options. I would hate to see the Dragons fold.

Aye and do what's best for Newport RFC.
Now there's a novelty coz the current mess appears to indicate that doing what's best for Newport RFC, hasn't been much of a priority for a long time.

From all the snippets I've picked up, what's best for NRFC is accepting the deal. I don't really know though, but hope the facts confirm as much. The best that can be hoped for is that the deal is best for both, because that should go some way to help ensure the survival of Dragons, in swinging the votes to accept the WRU offer.

It does appear that if no deal is done with the WRU, then both the Dragons and the NRFC are stuffed, and Rodney will be sold to the highest bidder, most likely for property development. If that's true it would be madness for the shareholders to vote against, but we do live in very strange times.

Nor me.
Anyway FoNR are meeting the CEO on Monday. Should be tasty.

Certainly be interesting, and hopefully much more informative.

Not if Pinkie's other meetings with FoNR are anything to go by
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Post by Guest Fri 24 Mar 2017, 5:42 pm

Munchkin wrote:
Griff wrote:Reading a lot of comments on other sites (e.g. South Wales Argus) a lot of fans are convinced that all the WRU want is to pick up Rodney Parade at a discount price and then sell it on to developers for a handsome profit in a few years once an agree lease period ends.  This demonstrates quite well the level of distrust in the union.  Pretty much no-one on the SW Argus comments page thinks the WRU is doing this to 'save' rugby in Gwent.  They pretty much ALL think there is an ulterior motive.  Can so many people be wrong?

I've been following the online debate and find mixed opinions. Probably a different article, but reading the SWA comments here > Mixed opinions there appears to be a fairly even split. There does appear to be shareholders voting against, some for, but it's anyone's guess as to how the shareholders will vote.

The masses can be wrong, as history confirms, but I think it's the lack of detail on any deal that's causing most angst. Conspiracy theories are usually invented in a void of facts, or facts understood within context, and that's what is happening with those imagining the WRU has devious intent. I also think many of these same people simply don't like Unions, and especially the thought of Union owned teams, and so will be hostile to any WRU take-over.

From what I have gleaned so far there is a simple choice; Vote to save the ground, the Dragons and the NRFC, or vote to end it all. Some of those commenting actually want to vote against saving their own club. That's insane.

I've read a few comments about selling RP and taking the money and housing Newport RFC somewhere else. However, they won't be able to build a new ground for the money they would generate from the sale of RP, surely? Secondly, there's nowhere else in Newport that would be suitable to rent. Hence why Newport County football are at RP too. There's simply no other suitable stadia in Newport (talking just about Newport RFC now, and not Dragons and wider Gwent). Without a suitable ground Newport RFC would probably be kicked out of the Welsh Premiership as any Newport ground they might rent wouldn't meet the minimum stadium requirements. Some teams have been prevented from promotion to the prem in the last few seasons for this very reason. So a no vote from the shareholders might keep Newport RFC alive in the short term but might limit their options and league standing going forward, IMO.

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Post by Stone Motif Fri 24 Mar 2017, 6:10 pm

Griff wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Griff wrote:Reading a lot of comments on other sites (e.g. South Wales Argus) a lot of fans are convinced that all the WRU want is to pick up Rodney Parade at a discount price and then sell it on to developers for a handsome profit in a few years once an agree lease period ends.  This demonstrates quite well the level of distrust in the union.  Pretty much no-one on the SW Argus comments page thinks the WRU is doing this to 'save' rugby in Gwent.  They pretty much ALL think there is an ulterior motive.  Can so many people be wrong?

I've been following the online debate and find mixed opinions. Probably a different article, but reading the SWA comments here > Mixed opinions there appears to be a fairly even split. There does appear to be shareholders voting against, some for, but it's anyone's guess as to how the shareholders will vote.

The masses can be wrong, as history confirms, but I think it's the lack of detail on any deal that's causing most angst. Conspiracy theories are usually invented in a void of facts, or facts understood within context, and that's what is happening with those imagining the WRU has devious intent. I also think many of these same people simply don't like Unions, and especially the thought of Union owned teams, and so will be hostile to any WRU take-over.

From what I have gleaned so far there is a simple choice; Vote to save the ground, the Dragons and the NRFC, or vote to end it all. Some of those commenting actually want to vote against saving their own club. That's insane.

I've read a few comments about selling RP and taking the money and housing Newport RFC somewhere else. However, they won't be able to build a new ground for the money they would generate from the sale of RP, surely? Secondly, there's nowhere else in Newport that would be suitable to rent. Hence why Newport County football are at RP too. There's simply no other suitable stadia in Newport (talking just about Newport RFC now, and not Dragons and wider Gwent). Without a suitable ground Newport RFC would probably be kicked out of the Welsh Premiership as any Newport ground they might rent wouldn't meet the minimum stadium requirements. Some teams have been prevented from promotion to the prem in the last few seasons for this very reason. So a no vote from the shareholders might keep Newport RFC alive in the short term but might limit their options and league standing going forward, IMO.

For what they'd get for 13 acres in a prime housing spot? They could build a little stadium easily and pay off the debts to boot.

That being said - can't disclose sources but heard some info today that make me more positive about this takeover.
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Post by Guest Fri 24 Mar 2017, 6:16 pm

Griff wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Griff wrote:Reading a lot of comments on other sites (e.g. South Wales Argus) a lot of fans are convinced that all the WRU want is to pick up Rodney Parade at a discount price and then sell it on to developers for a handsome profit in a few years once an agree lease period ends.  This demonstrates quite well the level of distrust in the union.  Pretty much no-one on the SW Argus comments page thinks the WRU is doing this to 'save' rugby in Gwent.  They pretty much ALL think there is an ulterior motive.  Can so many people be wrong?

I've been following the online debate and find mixed opinions. Probably a different article, but reading the SWA comments here > Mixed opinions there appears to be a fairly even split. There does appear to be shareholders voting against, some for, but it's anyone's guess as to how the shareholders will vote.

The masses can be wrong, as history confirms, but I think it's the lack of detail on any deal that's causing most angst. Conspiracy theories are usually invented in a void of facts, or facts understood within context, and that's what is happening with those imagining the WRU has devious intent. I also think many of these same people simply don't like Unions, and especially the thought of Union owned teams, and so will be hostile to any WRU take-over.

From what I have gleaned so far there is a simple choice; Vote to save the ground, the Dragons and the NRFC, or vote to end it all. Some of those commenting actually want to vote against saving their own club. That's insane.

I've read a few comments about selling RP and taking the money and housing Newport RFC somewhere else. However, they won't be able to build a new ground for the money they would generate from the sale of RP, surely? Secondly, there's nowhere else in Newport that would be suitable to rent. Hence why Newport County football are at RP too. There's simply no other suitable stadia in Newport (talking just about Newport RFC now, and not Dragons and wider Gwent). Without a suitable ground Newport RFC would probably be kicked out of the Welsh Premiership as any Newport ground they might rent wouldn't meet the minimum stadium requirements. Some teams have been prevented from promotion to the prem in the last few seasons for this very reason. So a no vote from the shareholders might keep Newport RFC alive in the short term but might limit their options and league standing going forward, IMO.

I have read similar comment's suggesting that NRFC sell the ground and build elsewhere, but I think it's unrealistic unless someone was willing to pay a huge amount for the 9 acres of land (or so I've read), that will cover all debts (around £5m), the purchase of land and cost of building a stadium. I doubt it would happen, although it would be good to know the market value of the land. Hopefully that will be revealed at some point. Added to that, as you say, is finding suitable land, even if they did have the money.

Newport County is a tricky one. My thinking is that, if WRU do take over Rodney, Newport County will be without a home. As things stand, Newport County is in danger of being dropped because of the state of the pitch, the PRO12 aren't happy about the poor pitch either, so that has to change, and the WRU want to replace the pitch with a 4G. Apparently Newport County wouldn't be allowed to play on a 4G pitch. So it's not looking good for them, but hopefully a solution is found when they talk to the WRU.

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Post by Cardiff Dave Fri 24 Mar 2017, 6:22 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:
Munchkin wrote:Thanks, Griff. Interesting that Dragons don't contribute, in any meaningful way, to Rodney. The pitch is a mess, and maybe the WRU, as part Dragons owners, should have at least invested in a new pitch. That's history, I suppose.

There's still the claim that Rodney would have to be sold off, if the shareholders vote against the WRU. If that's true then the NRFC are out of options, and have no real choice but to accept the offer. The shareholders might not see it that way though. What ever happens, I hope they vote with their heads, after being fully informed of their options. I would hate to see the Dragons fold.

Aye and do what's best for Newport RFC.
Now there's a novelty coz the current mess appears to indicate that doing what's best for Newport RFC, hasn't been much of a priority for a long time.

From all the snippets I've picked up, what's best for NRFC is accepting the deal. I don't really know though, but hope the facts confirm as much. The best that can be hoped for is that the deal is best for both, because that should go some way to help ensure the survival of Dragons, in swinging the votes to accept the WRU offer.

It does appear that if no deal is done with the WRU, then both the Dragons and the NRFC are stuffed, and Rodney will be sold to the highest bidder, most likely for property development. If that's true it would be madness for the shareholders to vote against, but we do live in very strange times.

Nor me.
Anyway FoNR are meeting the CEO on Monday. Should be tasty.

Certainly be interesting, and hopefully much more informative.

Not if Pinkie's other meetings with FoNR are anything to go by

Aye.
Like questioning a Cardiff CEO about all things CAP/CCS? Probably.
Need the organ grinder to answer Qs.

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Post by Cardiff Dave Fri 24 Mar 2017, 6:25 pm

Stone Motif wrote:

For what they'd get for 13 acres in a prime housing spot? They could build a little stadium easily and pay off the debts to boot.

That being said - can't disclose sources but heard some info today that make me more positive about this takeover.

Ooh, do tell. Without disclosing sources of courses.

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