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Post by pedro on Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:17 am

First topic message reminder :

Corbyn I guess.

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Post by raycastleunited on Tue May 02, 2017 6:45 pm

That's because he's a total Jeremy Hunt.

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Post by Diggers on Tue May 02, 2017 6:52 pm

With bells on.

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Post by raycastleunited on Tue May 02, 2017 10:17 pm

Request for the moderators: could you please move the politics to its own special thread? There's going to be a lot of it over the next few weeks and I wouldn't want to pollute the wonderful anything goes thread. Ta.

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Post by MontysMerkin on Wed May 03, 2017 8:20 am

raycastleunited wrote:
MontysMerkin wrote:
The main problem is the inherent 'strength' of the pound - has been for ages. The pound is massively overvalued and has only been kept like that to serve property millionaires.

What? Talk about conspiracy theory... who is artificially keeping sterling over-valued? And how are they doing this?
You think the pound is correctly weighted?
The housing market has kept the pound afloat - knock 30-40% of value of house prices and the pound would tank even more than it is doing now.
This is done by the bank of England to try and keep inflation under control. This is really basic stuff ray. Just because you don't understand doesn't make it a conspiracy (and they really did put a man on the moon!)
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Post by MontysMerkin on Wed May 03, 2017 8:29 am

raycastleunited wrote:
JAS wrote:
super_realist wrote:People keep saying it's the "media" making people change their votes and it's them knocking Corbyn down, but can anyone genuinely list any Labour Party policies which would make them electable?

I can't think of any and Corbyn has (without the need of media spin) shown himself to be an imbecile. Has no one ever watch PMQ's? He's inept and hopeless.

1. They're committed to saving the NHS
2. They believe in properly funding the state education system
3. They're against the exploitation of labour
4. They're committed to building new homes to avert a housing crisis
5. They're committed to a fair taxation system where the big multinationals will have to pay their fair share

I could go on but the emerging principle is that they care about adequate state provision and making the lives of ordinary working people better.


JAS I think ALL parties believe in those ideals. In fact we all probably do. It's just Corbyn hasn't really articulated how any of this is achievable. I expect that was Super's point, it's all very well saying you want to improve everyone's life but you need a specific and achievable plan to be taken seriously.
Hahahahahah you are having a laugh surely.
1. Jeremy Hunt
2. They want to reintroduce grammar schools - great way to educate the whole population. Not.
3. The tories have actively encouraged zero hour contracts and have allowed the biggest companies to not pay a living wage (hence tax credits for people in full time employment - what a swizz that is! Tax payers picking up Tescos wage bill)
4. The tories have managed to "divert" 11 billion a year to private landlords in housing benefit (this obviously helps out all those working class landlords)
5. I really don't know how to respond to that one - I'm just amazed.
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Post by MontysMerkin on Wed May 03, 2017 9:03 am

Oh and in case anyone else is feeling sorry for the tories
"In January 2014, the UK became the first country in its history[316] to be investigated under the United Nations' Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities for "systematic and grave violations" of disabled people's human rights, largely in response to cuts made by the Department for Work and Pensions and social care provision since 2011,[317] which disproporionately affect disabled people,[318][319] as well as workfare programmes and the "bedroom tax".[320] The final report is expected in 2017.[321]"
Note that the election has been called to get it done before the election fraud scandal goes to court and the above. What a lovely bunch....
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Post by raycastleunited on Wed May 03, 2017 10:31 am

MontysMerkin wrote:
raycastleunited wrote:
MontysMerkin wrote:
The main problem is the inherent 'strength' of the pound - has been for ages. The pound is massively overvalued and has only been kept like that to serve property millionaires.

What? Talk about conspiracy theory... who is artificially keeping sterling over-valued? And how are they doing this?
You think the pound is correctly weighted?
The housing market has kept the pound afloat - knock 30-40% of value of house prices and the pound would tank even more than it is doing now.
This is done by the bank of England to try and keep inflation under control. This is really basic stuff ray. Just because you don't understand doesn't make it a conspiracy (and they really did put a man on the moon!)


as you are such an expert could you please explain to someone as simple as me how the housing market props up the pound?

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Post by MontysMerkin on Wed May 03, 2017 10:47 am

People invest in rare things, agreed? By making the housing market an investment opportunity, we have a lot of foreign investment in the housing market. If you take the foreign investment out of the housing market there would be a crash which would inevitably have an impact on the value of the pound. There are historical precedences for this happening.

The main problem I have with this is that foreign investors are not liable to the same taxes as domestic investors.
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Post by MontysMerkin on Wed May 03, 2017 10:49 am

"The extent to which London's irrepressible housing market is being propped up by foreign buyers was laid bare by figures showing as much as 85 per cent of prime London property purchases last year were made with overseas money.
Estate agent network London Property Partners reported that just 15 per cent of its sales in the past year were made by UK buyers. Of the foreign purchases, 80 per cent were from Europe and 20 per cent from Asia, LPP said.
LPP agents operate mainly in prime locations such as Pimlico and Fulham but also take in more affordable areas such as Tooting."
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Post by super_realist on Wed May 03, 2017 11:44 am

Diggers wrote:Well, for me, if we want a way to start making more more money - stop letting private firms (mostly foreign)milk all the profits from what should be state ran industries. Nationalise the railways, this is a no brainer for me. Not one of the franchises deserves to earn a bean from the shambles of a network we have. I'd also nationalise the electricity and gas firms again, I can't see that competition has in any way kept prices down, time and time again these companies have to face accusations that they will do anything they can to present the highest price to the consumer.
I'd also look at the banks, we bail them out, as soon as they become profitable again what do we do? Sell them handing back all the future profits to the other shareholders. Why not hang onto those shares and let the asset grow.
Within the NHS, so much of it is privately run for profit. I see very little benefit here again. So many middle men taking a slice at every step.
It won't happen, the real Project Fear will make sure of that.

Diggers, British Rail, BT, British Gas etc were shambolic when they were nationalised because nationalised industries have no incentive to be efficient or make profit.

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Post by MontysMerkin on Wed May 03, 2017 11:58 am

super_realist wrote:
Diggers wrote:Well, for me, if we want a way to start making more more money - stop letting private firms (mostly foreign)milk all the profits from what should be state ran industries. Nationalise the railways, this is a no brainer for me. Not one of the franchises deserves to earn a bean from the shambles of a network we have. I'd also nationalise the electricity and gas firms again, I can't see that competition has in any way kept prices down, time and time again these companies have to face accusations that they will do anything they can to present the highest price to the consumer.
I'd also look at the banks, we bail them out, as soon as they become profitable again what do we do? Sell them handing back all the future profits to the other shareholders. Why not hang onto those shares and let the asset grow.
Within the NHS, so much of it is privately run for profit. I see very little benefit here again. So many middle men taking a slice at every step.
It won't happen, the real Project Fear will make sure of that.

Diggers, British Rail, BT, British Gas etc were shambolic when they were nationalised because nationalised industries have no incentive to be efficient or make profit.
It's a tired old line that you really should ignore.
It's classic practice to underfund then denigrate a service before privitisation. Make the plebs believe it's inefficient, and make sure your friendly neighbourhood newsmen keep the uninformed informed.
Then you can take all the extra cash and spend it on booze.
Guess how much 'Sir' Richard Branston made from his rail contracts: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jun/10/truth-richard-branson-virgin-rail-profits
As far as energy goes you're saying that we're much better off handing over much more money to foreign companies who we can't tax properly? Nice work.

To say private business is more efficient is bollox. You have the same people trying to swing the lead in every industry. Watching how companies like G4S, Carillion, Southern Cross and countless others make money from the taxpayer would make you weep, if you had any sort of fiscal or societal conscience.
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Post by MontysMerkin on Wed May 03, 2017 12:26 pm

In 2014 the NHS was ranked the best and most efficient in the world by the independent Commonwealth Fund. Now ranked 14th in Europe.
Would you say there is an idealogical mission to see the NHS fail, be broken up and handed over (doubt much cash will change hands) to the large US medical industry (U.S. Health Care Ranked Worst in the Developed World; Time magazine 2014)?
If so are you happy with this?

If you really are interested in private healthcare price gouging read https://www.uta.edu/faculty/story/2311/Misc/2013,2,26,MedicalCostsDemandAndGreed.pdf
If it doesn't shake your blind belief in privatisation then you are obviously a mental.
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Post by raycastleunited on Wed May 03, 2017 12:33 pm

Monty are you an academic by any chance?

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Post by MontysMerkin on Wed May 03, 2017 12:45 pm

raycastleunited wrote:Monty are you an academic by any chance?
Not really, no.
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Post by raycastleunited on Wed May 03, 2017 12:53 pm

It's just your views on commercial things like money markets and FX rates indicate that you don't have any experience of multi national business

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Post by super_realist on Wed May 03, 2017 1:11 pm

MontysMerkin wrote:
super_realist wrote:
Diggers wrote:Well, for me, if we want a way to start making more more money - stop letting private firms (mostly foreign)milk all the profits from what should be state ran industries. Nationalise the railways, this is a no brainer for me. Not one of the franchises deserves to earn a bean from the shambles of a network we have. I'd also nationalise the electricity and gas firms again, I can't see that competition has in any way kept prices down, time and time again these companies have to face accusations that they will do anything they can to present the highest price to the consumer.
I'd also look at the banks, we bail them out, as soon as they become profitable again what do we do? Sell them handing back all the future profits to the other shareholders. Why not hang onto those shares and let the asset grow.
Within the NHS, so much of it is privately run for profit. I see very little benefit here again. So many middle men taking a slice at every step.
It won't happen, the real Project Fear will make sure of that.

Diggers, British Rail, BT, British Gas etc were shambolic when they were nationalised because nationalised industries have no incentive to be efficient or make profit.
It's a tired old line that you really should ignore.
It's classic practice to underfund then denigrate a service before privitisation. Make the plebs believe it's inefficient, and make sure your friendly neighbourhood newsmen keep the uninformed informed.
Then you can take all the extra cash and spend it on booze.
Guess how much 'Sir' Richard Branston made from his rail contracts: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jun/10/truth-richard-branson-virgin-rail-profits
As far as energy goes you're saying that we're much better off handing over much more money to foreign companies who we can't tax properly? Nice work.

To say private business is more efficient is bollox. You have the same people trying to swing the lead in every industry. Watching how companies like G4S, Carillion, Southern Cross and countless others make money from the taxpayer would make you weep, if you had any sort of fiscal or societal conscience.

Stop being such a snowflake Monty, British Rail and virtually every other state owned organisation didn't just suddenly start being bad at their job once there was a sniff of privatisation.

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Post by MontysMerkin on Wed May 03, 2017 1:11 pm

raycastleunited wrote:It's just your views on commercial things like money markets and FX rates indicate that you don't have any experience of multi national business
True, I don't work in the money markets so can only glean what I can. They seem like a rigged business to me, a grand ponzi scheme but maybe you could illuminate how they work?
For instance, do you think the pound is in for a 'pounding'? Especially in light of Brexit? Do you not think it's been able to hold itself artificially high for the last decade or so, while other currencies (apart from the us dollar) have found their real value?
Would love an experts opinion, straight from the horses mouth.
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Post by Diggers on Wed May 03, 2017 1:12 pm

super_realist wrote:
Diggers wrote:Well, for me, if we want a way to start making more more money - stop letting private firms (mostly foreign)milk all the profits from what should be state ran industries. Nationalise the railways, this is a no brainer for me. Not one of the franchises deserves to earn a bean from the shambles of a network we have. I'd also nationalise the electricity and gas firms again, I can't see that competition has in any way kept prices down, time and time again these companies have to face accusations that they will do anything they can to present the highest price to the consumer.
I'd also look at the banks, we bail them out, as soon as they become profitable again what do we do? Sell them handing back all the future profits to the other shareholders. Why not hang onto those shares and let the asset grow.
Within the NHS, so much of it is privately run for profit. I see very little benefit here again. So many middle men taking a slice at every step.
It won't happen, the real Project Fear will make sure of that.

Diggers, British Rail, BT, British Gas etc were shambolic when they were nationalised because nationalised industries have no incentive to be efficient or make profit.

That argument would hold some water if we now had a decent service...we do not. The incentive to create profit actually leads to cost cutting and price hiking. I really don't see how that is of any benefit to the country. Meanwhile we subsidise the companies for providing a pathetic service. The only people who benefit are the share holders of the private companies...there is no trickle down advantages.
Thames Water (Australian owned) has just been fined 20 million for pumping 2 billion...yes billion...gallons of sewage into the Thames. The fine was high as this was a repeated offence they have been warned about. Electricity companies deliberately complicate tariffs to rip people off, train companies deliberately present higher prices as the first option on their machines. I'm sorry, if anyone finds that acceptable then they are seriously lacking in judgement.
You can easily incentivise workers at any company to perform well, you can still have directors and management and workers who can receive bonuses.

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Post by MontysMerkin on Wed May 03, 2017 1:13 pm

super_realist wrote:
MontysMerkin wrote:
super_realist wrote:
Diggers wrote:Well, for me, if we want a way to start making more more money - stop letting private firms (mostly foreign)milk all the profits from what should be state ran industries. Nationalise the railways, this is a no brainer for me. Not one of the franchises deserves to earn a bean from the shambles of a network we have. I'd also nationalise the electricity and gas firms again, I can't see that competition has in any way kept prices down, time and time again these companies have to face accusations that they will do anything they can to present the highest price to the consumer.
I'd also look at the banks, we bail them out, as soon as they become profitable again what do we do? Sell them handing back all the future profits to the other shareholders. Why not hang onto those shares and let the asset grow.
Within the NHS, so much of it is privately run for profit. I see very little benefit here again. So many middle men taking a slice at every step.
It won't happen, the real Project Fear will make sure of that.

Diggers, British Rail, BT, British Gas etc were shambolic when they were nationalised because nationalised industries have no incentive to be efficient or make profit.
It's a tired old line that you really should ignore.
It's classic practice to underfund then denigrate a service before privitisation. Make the plebs believe it's inefficient, and make sure your friendly neighbourhood newsmen keep the uninformed informed.
Then you can take all the extra cash and spend it on booze.
Guess how much 'Sir' Richard Branston made from his rail contracts: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jun/10/truth-richard-branson-virgin-rail-profits
As far as energy goes you're saying that we're much better off handing over much more money to foreign companies who we can't tax properly? Nice work.

To say private business is more efficient is bollox. You have the same people trying to swing the lead in every industry. Watching how companies like G4S, Carillion, Southern Cross and countless others make money from the taxpayer would make you weep, if you had any sort of fiscal or societal conscience.

Stop being such a snowflake Monty, British Rail and virtually every other state owned organisation didn't just suddenly start being bad at their job once there was a sniff of privatisation.
LOL nice snowflake call.
Good substance to your argument as well. I'm guessing your mummys bigger than my mummy too?
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Post by super_realist on Wed May 03, 2017 1:14 pm

Look at every company that has been privatised, a good many of them were riddled with problems long before any privatisation was mentioned Wolfie Smith.

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Post by MontysMerkin on Wed May 03, 2017 1:18 pm

super_realist wrote:Look at every company that has been privatised, a good many of them were riddled with problems long before any privatisation was mentioned Wolfie Smith.
Lets have some details then.
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Post by super_realist on Wed May 03, 2017 1:24 pm

Do you honestly believe British Rail started going on strike, started being inefficient, started dropping safety standards only once privatisation was on the horizon? It was failing for years. Are you even old enough to remember BR? It was terrible.

British Telecom was also woefully inefficient.

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Post by MontysMerkin on Wed May 03, 2017 1:36 pm

super_realist wrote:Do you honestly believe British Rail started going on strike, started being inefficient, started dropping safety standards only once privatisation was on the horizon? It was failing for years.

British Telecom was also woefully inefficient.
If you underfund and undermine an industry then yes you will get strikes and inefficiencies.
In what way was BT inefficient (considering it was the late 70s early 80s - technology, etc)?
It was privatised in 1982, so has had nearly 40 years as a private company and is still rated the worst comms company in the UK? (sorry EE is ranked a bit worse, but owned by BT)
https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/bt.com
Makes the biggest profit, sure but service? Garbage... ranked 94th of 100 major companies rated in the Which? annual customer service poll.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/11103540/The-100-best-and-worst-companies-for-customer-service.html
Try evidencing some of your points, I'm not interested in what your mummy thinks.


Last edited by MontysMerkin on Wed May 03, 2017 1:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by super_realist on Wed May 03, 2017 1:39 pm

There's nothing wrong with state owned companies provided they are run correctly, but the UK has a history of making a mess of state owned industries compared to France, Denmark and Sweden.

I didn't say Privatising necessarily makes it better, just as renationalising will not make it better.


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Post by MontysMerkin on Wed May 03, 2017 1:41 pm

super_realist wrote:There's nothing wrong with state owned companies provided they are run correctly, but the UK has a history of making a mess of state owned industries compared to France, Denmark and Sweden.

I didn't say Privatising necessarily makes it better, just as renationalising  will not make it better.

Ah ok then Rolling Eyes
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Post by super_realist on Wed May 03, 2017 1:43 pm

The question is why Corbyn thinks renationalising a company would make it better? Much like everything he says, it's just a flash boast.

Did you think British Leyland was worth having as a state owned company?

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Post by MontysMerkin on Wed May 03, 2017 1:44 pm

MontysMerkin wrote:
super_realist wrote:There's nothing wrong with state owned companies provided they are run correctly, but the UK has a history of making a mess of state owned industries compared to France, Denmark and Sweden.

I didn't say Privatising necessarily makes it better, just as renationalising  will not make it better.

Ah ok then Rolling Eyes
That's because their populations are a tad more socially aware than it seems ours is, and haven't slept through the massive sell off of UK plc. to the highest bidder (usually some tory mates).
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Post by super_realist on Wed May 03, 2017 1:45 pm

Despite Labour also selling off national interests.

Is everything so black and white in the People's Republic of Tooting?

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Post by MontysMerkin on Wed May 03, 2017 1:49 pm

super_realist wrote:The question is why Corbyn thinks renationalising a company would make it better? Much like everything he says, it's just a flash boast.

Did you think British Leyland was worth having as a state owned company?
British leyland owned range rover and jaguar for gods sake - some of the most prestigious car companies in the world!
then they were hived off to private investors and as usual the taxpayer keeps the Poopie.

Why wouldn't nationalising a company make it better (or at least more accountable - I'm sure a nationalised BT could be just as Poopie as it is now, but at least the billions in profit would go to the national coffers)
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Post by MontysMerkin on Wed May 03, 2017 1:51 pm

super_realist wrote:Despite Labour also selling off national interests.

Is everything so black and white in the People's Republic of Tooting?
Nice bit of whataboutery...

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Post by Diggers on Wed May 03, 2017 1:56 pm

super_realist wrote:Despite Labour also selling off national interests.

Is everything so black and white in the People's Republic of Tooting?

The people republic of Tooting.....where the cost of a 3 bed terrace is pushing a million...

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Post by McLaren on Wed May 03, 2017 2:47 pm

raycastleunited wrote:It's just your views on commercial things like money markets and FX rates indicate that you don't have any experience of multi national business

This is such a weird comment and sort of exemplifies the current anti intellectual thinking adopted by many of those in non-university attending socio economic groups.
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Post by MontysMerkin on Wed May 03, 2017 2:51 pm

McLaren wrote:
raycastleunited wrote:It's just your views on commercial things like money markets and FX rates indicate that you don't have any experience of multi national business

This is such a weird comment and sort of exemplifies the current anti intellectual thinking adopted by many of those in non-university attending socio economic groups.
I don't mind at all if it's evidence based - it's how we all learn. I'm hoping he's going to come back with something that will make me rethink my original proposition. If not, then that's ok, but you should at least be open to new ideas and thoughts.
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Post by Davie on Wed May 03, 2017 3:34 pm

raycastleunited wrote:Request for the moderators: could you please move the politics to its own special thread? There's going to be a lot of it over the next few weeks and I wouldn't want to pollute the wonderful anything goes thread. Ta.

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Post by super_realist on Wed May 03, 2017 4:49 pm

MontysMerkin wrote:
super_realist wrote:The question is why Corbyn thinks renationalising a company would make it better? Much like everything he says, it's just a flash boast.

Did you think British Leyland was worth having as a state owned company?
British leyland owned range rover and jaguar for gods sake - some of the most prestigious car companies in the world!
then they were hived off to private investors and as usual the taxpayer keeps the Poopie.

Why wouldn't nationalising a company make it better (or at least more accountable - I'm sure a nationalised BT could be just as Poopie as it is now, but at least the billions in profit would go to the national coffers)

JLR under BL were a complete basket case. They were some of the worlds most unreliable cars for example the XJS and Range Rover were terribly unreliable and they are still suffering from this stigma today in certain quarters. It's taken several foreign owners to turn them into what they are today. Ford and BMW failed with Jag and RR respectively, it's Tata that have turned them from motoring albatross to current desirable status.

BL also gave us the Marina, Allegro and Princess. BL couldn't make "billions" out of JLR because State Ownership in the UK car industry has NEVER been successful, they were sold for a PITTANCE as no one wanted to buy the companies. The Exchequer probably does better by taxing JLR profits NOW than it did when it owned the bloody thing. Governmental intervention in the car industry has historically been a disaster in the UK, it takes foreign investment to make it work.

JLR could never do what it does now under British national ownership.

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Post by Diggers on Wed May 03, 2017 5:47 pm

Harping back 40 years is nonsense. Look at the hard facts now, is our rail system a shambles - yes. Is there a constant stream of evidence showing that our utility suppliers try to rip us off and are creaming hug profits to other countries- yes.
If you look at the recent cases against Shell, VW, Thames etc, anyone who thinks these companies care about anything other than profit is in thin ice.
Does it make sense to nationalise everything, no. Is there a very strong case for reviewing the current situation and making changes - absolutely.


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Post by raycastleunited on Wed May 03, 2017 6:03 pm

I've done a few projects with public sector organisations, and from my limited experience of seeing what goes on behind the scenes I have been shocked at how poor the decision making is and how a culture of mediocrity and ar$e covering rules. There is no incentive to improve, excel or help the "customer". With that in mind it makes total sense to privatise certain industries and services... no doubt JLR would be a laughing stock if it was still government owned.

Having said that, it doesn't sit comfortably when a private company is given a monopoly. We have the Competition & Markets authority (formerly Monopolies and Mergers Commission) which is a government department to prevent monopolies, while other government departments hand them out. Although you can choose to buy a BMW or a Jaguar, rail commuters can't really choose between rail providers. I'm too young to remember BR but I can't see how privatisation has improved anything.

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Post by Diggers on Wed May 03, 2017 6:13 pm

I think a big part of the issue is the relationship between the unions and the govt/companies.
In other countries they have strong unions but the model is based on an attempt at consensus from all parties. We have a model that starts at conflict and then tries to work a solution from that position, clearly that's never going to work very well.
I don't see that any of the relevant players are any more or less to blame for those scenario, but if it could ever change it could only be a good thing.

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Post by raycastleunited on Wed May 03, 2017 9:32 pm

Diggers wrote:I think a big part of the issue is the relationship between the unions and the govt/companies.
In other countries they have strong unions but the model is based on an attempt at consensus from all parties. We have a model that starts at conflict and then tries to work a solution from that position, clearly that's never going to work very well.
I don't see that any of the relevant players are any more or less to blame for those scenario, but if it could ever change it could only be a good thing.

France is no different - strike first talk later.

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Post by raycastleunited on Wed May 03, 2017 9:36 pm

McLaren wrote:
raycastleunited wrote:It's just your views on commercial things like money markets and FX rates indicate that you don't have any experience of multi national business

This is such a weird comment and sort of exemplifies the current anti intellectual thinking adopted by many of those in non-university attending socio economic groups.

Mac I think you're being un-necessarily harsh on yourself here. Just because you didn't get any A-levels or go to university it doesn't mean I value your opinions any less. Although I generally disagree with most of your views it has nothing to do with your lack of education, and I expect that most of the posters on here are equally ambivalent on this matter.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Wed May 03, 2017 9:42 pm

US is completely different - balance entirely in the hands of the employers, with SCOTUS and Repubs cheer-leading as they stigmatize unions and try to do away with them. Gets worse every day, including today.


ray,
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Post by Diggers on Wed May 03, 2017 9:44 pm

raycastleunited wrote:
Diggers wrote:I think a big part of the issue is the relationship between the unions and the govt/companies.
In other countries they have strong unions but the model is based on an attempt at consensus from all parties. We have a model that starts at conflict and then tries to work a solution from that position, clearly that's never going to work very well.
I don't see that any of the relevant players are any more or less to blame for those scenario, but if it could ever change it could only be a good thing.

France is no different - strike first talk later.

True enough...everyone else then..maybe not the Italians as well...or Spanish...

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Post by raycastleunited on Wed May 03, 2017 10:31 pm

MontysMerkin wrote:
raycastleunited wrote:It's just your views on commercial things like money markets and FX rates indicate that you don't have any experience of multi national business
True, I don't work in the money markets so can only glean what I can. They seem like a rigged business to me, a grand ponzi scheme but maybe you could illuminate how they work?
For instance, do you think the pound is in for a 'pounding'? Especially in light of Brexit? Do you not think it's been able to hold itself artificially high for the last decade or so, while other currencies (apart from the us dollar) have found their real value?
Would love an experts opinion, straight from the horses mouth.

Monty, what I have observed is that there is no secret club operating in the shadows. It's like you believe the sensationalist property stories in the Mail or have been reading too much Dan Brown.

Sterling operates as a free float currency, it's one of the most liquid global currencies. The Bank of England uses interest rates as a lever to influence inflation, and yes there is a link between interest rates, inflation and FX rates, but Sterling interest rates are in line with Euro rates and other economies in the same position as us. The government is not involved in artificially propping up the currency, there are no exchange controls or government trading, in fact the Bank interferes as little as possible and allows market forces to prevail.

Is the pound in for a pounding? Who knows? Current FX rates take into consideration all known market information, by definition we can't know. Furthermore, your belief that some currencies have found their real value while others haven't doesn't make any sense. They are all valued against each other and there is no arbitrage opportunity. Purchase price parity theory indicates that Sterling is not vastly inflated, although this is a theory not a fact. Try looking at the Big Mac index which suggests that Sterling is in fact under-valued. What I would say is likely is that we are in for a period of increased volatility.

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Post by pedro on Wed May 03, 2017 10:49 pm

The Sterling already took a 10-15% 'pounding' vs the Euro after the referendum last June and hasn't recovered. In fact it has hardly moved. So I spose the markets have factored in that Brexit is a fact / will happen, and whatever deal the UK may or may not strike with the EU has to be seen.

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Post by McLaren on Thu May 04, 2017 11:44 am

I assume most people thought Philip had croaked when they first went onto bbc news this morning and saw his face as the main photo before reading the headline?

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Post by super_realist on Thu May 04, 2017 11:56 am

Diggers wrote:Harping back 40 years is nonsense. Look at the hard facts now, is our rail system a shambles - yes. Is there a constant stream of evidence showing that our utility suppliers try to rip us off and are creaming hug profits to other countries- yes.
If you look at the recent cases against Shell, VW, Thames etc, anyone who thinks these companies care about anything other than profit is in thin ice.
Does it make sense to nationalise everything, no. Is there a very strong case for reviewing the current situation and making changes - absolutely.

Diggers, all that shows is that the rail system in the UK is out of date and not up to requirements. It doesn't seem to matter who owns it, it will always struggle because it's based on Victorian infrastructure.

Returning it to public ownership isn't going to make it any better, in fact, you'll just end up paying more tax to not improve it.

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Post by McLaren on Thu May 04, 2017 12:14 pm

Super

I am not asking you to just take my word for this but offer it up as an avenue for you to look into, but there was a bbc four documentary (about APT tilting train and intercity 125, i think) which discussed how misrepresented British rail was. In the documentary the discuss areas like punctuality and pricing and show the UK rail system compared very well to the systems in Europe during the 80's.

I certainly have never seen any reliable source show that British rail wasn't efficient, I have only heard the mantra that it wasn't from those naive about economics and incentive.

What have you seen that makes you believe British rail wasn't working well before its privatization?
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Post by super_realist on Thu May 04, 2017 12:31 pm

Mac, efficiency is only one thing. You are probably too young to remember, but BR like many nationalised operations were frequently on strike, as was coal. If a business is being run well, as is inferred a nationalised Rail system would be, why was there so much industrial action? The safety record was also worse.

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Post by Diggers on Thu May 04, 2017 12:32 pm

super_realist wrote:
Diggers wrote:Harping back 40 years is nonsense. Look at the hard facts now, is our rail system a shambles - yes. Is there a constant stream of evidence showing that our utility suppliers try to rip us off and are creaming hug profits to other countries- yes.
If you look at the recent cases against Shell, VW, Thames etc, anyone who thinks these companies care about anything other than profit is in thin ice.
Does it make sense to nationalise everything, no. Is there a very strong case for reviewing the current situation and making changes - absolutely.

Diggers, all that shows is that the rail system in the UK is out of date and not up to requirements. It doesn't seem to matter who owns it, it will always struggle because it's based on Victorian infrastructure.

Returning it to public ownership isn't going to make it any better, in fact, you'll just end up paying more tax to not improve it.

I don't see any logic in that. The funding for investment comes from subsidies, the rolling stock is all govt owned. Privisation would take away the millions that are being shelled out to the shareholders of companies like Southern who quite simply do not care about their customers.
Your argument seems to be, hey it's broke, we can't fix it so why change it. There are numerous reasons for change that I can see.


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Post by McLaren on Thu May 04, 2017 12:35 pm

super_realist wrote:BR like many nationalised operations were frequently on strike.. If a business is being run well, as is inferred a nationalised Rail system would be, why was there so much industrial action? The safety record was also worse.

Is this what you are offering up as a reason for me to believe that British Rail was running so poorly that it should definitely have been privatized?
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