Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[pedro]

First topic message reminder :

Corbyn I guess.

[McLaren]

Super

If we don't try and reign in oil/gas companies and move away from fossil fuels in general how do you propose to reduce greenhouse gas levels?

Could overly taxing certain companies help change their behaviour?

[pedro]

Invest in nuclear power. It's the only realistic alternative to oil/gas. Plus it is green-ish.

[Be_the_ball]

Invest in nuclear power. It's the only realistic alternative to oil/gas. Plus it is green-ish.

My brother in law is a civil engineer, he lived in Nevada from 2004-2008 while working on a project to build two massive tunnels under the Nevada desert, these tunnels were to be used to bury the nuclear waste. He said it was mad, they were trying to predict geological events thousands of years in the future and build protection into it. $19bn had been spent on the project and not a shovel had broken earth, all planning. When the Democrats were elected in 08 the entire project was shelved. To this day most if not all of America's nuclear waste sits on top of land. Until Elon Musk builds his space elevator I don't think nuclear can be considered green.

[pedro]

Obviously the waste is the main issue with nuclear power. But I'm sure in 50 or 100 years time we've found out what to do with it.
All other energy alternatives seem to be castles in the sky, at least for the next 50 years.

Clearly it has got bad PR is some countries. However other countries are positive. So why not invest in nuclear power in those countries and have them supply the rest of us. Or built off shore nuclear plants. If it doesn't work out we can always put our eggs back in the Saudis and Putins basket.

[super_realist]

Nuclear is actually very clean these days, especially in regards to the waste.
The problem is that Fukishuma shook up a lot of countries (i.e. Germany) and Nuclear took a big kick in the teeth from it.

[super_realist]

Super

If we don't try and reign in oil/gas companies and move away from fossil fuels in general how do you propose to reduce greenhouse gas levels?

Could overly taxing certain companies help change their behaviour?

Mac, You seem to think that Oil and Gas companies are forcing their products upon you. They aren't, but it is a fact that you are RELIANT on that industry for every aspect of your life.

They ARE changing, and they are evolving to be cleaner organisations in demand from the public. However every company in every industry is out to maximise profits. Car companies don't introduce safety aspects because they care about people, they do so to give them a competitive edge. Drinks companies don't introduce low sugar drinks because they care about obesity. They are aiming to meet a demand. Oil and Gas is no different.

Business by definition isn't altruistic. Whatever they do, they do for profit. Oil and Gas is no different from any other companies. If you want them to change, get on your bike instead of getting the bus. Lower the demand, make them become leaner and more efficient by YOUR actions.

Business responds to changes in OUR demands. That's how it works, but unfortunately for you and those demonising oil and gas, it is the primary fuel available for life as we know it today. Will that change? Perhaps, but only if we make sufficient changes to make it happen.

Not long ago, you used the term "turkey's voting for Christmas" so why would a company change unless it was forced to due to public demand for its goods?.

Companies change due to demand. That's why companies like DONG (no sniggering) are no longer Oil companies and are now 100% renewables. So if you want change, then do something about it. Until then, don't be a hypocrite.

How would I reduce Greenhouse Gas levels? For a start I would target the worlds biggest polluter and double the price of petrol in that country (it would still be pretty cheap) and I'd force them to have cars that have the same efficiency as European cars. Improving the public transport in these areas would also help and educating Americans not to be fat, idle deadbeats who can't walk a mile.

[super_realist]

I hear May is saying "enough is enough" in regards to carpet sniffing terrorist events.

I struggle to see how you can stop this sort of event. It requires no communication that anyone would be able to pick up on. You could plan this in someone's living room.

Coming to a city near you soon probably. W.anchors.

[McLaren]

I struggle to see how you can stop this sort of event.

What do you make of the arguments being made today that cutting bobbies on beat by 20000 and lower the number of armed and specialist terrorism officers while home secretary May removed a vital layer of protection against these sorts of attacks.

Are we now at the end of the lag time between heavily cutting police numbers in vital community positions and an increase in terrorist attacks?

[super_realist]

Obviously I think that's a bad idea Mac. Why would I think it to be good?

However, given how this event played out, "bobbies on the beat" wouldn't have been able to do much unless they carry tyre stingers around with them.

I don't think you can say that the reduction in police numbers has increased this type of attack. I don't think Terrorist scum are frightened of a "bobby" armed with nothing more than Mace and a batton, do you?
First of all it's MI5 who obtain intel on these Koran thumping loons, and secondly, there's not much police being on the street would be able to do about this anyway.

So yes, awful that police numbers are going down, but not causation to these events. Higher numbers of police didn't stop the IRA morons or 7/7.

[McLaren]

Super

I think the argument is that a lower police presence in the community lowers the opportunity to tackle radicalization before it make an individual dangerous to others. MI5 might not be able to flush out the guy about to drive a van into pedestrians but police officers that have the time to foster a relationship with their local community might.

[super_realist]

I don't think so Mac, how much does Police presence impact on your life?
I'm sure if you're part of the deluded bunch of gullible fools who follow a religion that there's no police presence there either.

This sort of attack could be planned with no one knowing a thing about it, deliberately planned to keep people in the dark. It's incredibly easy to plan and carry out.

[pedro]

I heard MI5 are working on a surveillance app called iSlam..

[Diggers]

A good start to stopping these actions would be to rethink the Prevent strategy. It's badly flawed and very unpopular in the Muslim community who feel it marginals and targets them.
The concept has good points, the policy is poor.

[super_realist]

A good start to stopping these actions would be to rethink the Prevent strategy. It's badly flawed and very unpopular in the Muslim community who feel it marginals and targets them.
The concept has good points, the policy is poor.

Well the bombers aren't coming from the golf community are they? Who else would you target?

Perhaps they are approaching it in the wrong fashion, but it's the only sector of society worth looking at in regards to these things.

[Diggers]

A good start to stopping these actions would be to rethink the Prevent strategy. It's badly flawed and very unpopular in the Muslim community who feel it marginals and targets them.
The concept has good points, the policy is poor.

Well the bombers aren't coming from the golf community are they? Who else would you target?

Perhaps they are approaching it in the wrong fashion, but it's the only sector of society worth looking at in regards to these things.

It's the word target, you want to encourage support, not make it feel like the whole community is under suspicion, which is how it works at the moment. You said we can't stop these things, that it's impossible. The way to lessen them is to decrease the changes of radicalisation, ensure that the whole Muslim community feels supported.
And Prevent is meant to be about radicalisation of all groups, this includes this far right. Hate crime is also terrorism.The focus should not be just about the muslim community.

[beninho]

Isn't the big issue the fact that by cutting the police force, the people impacted were at the ground level, the rank and file coppers, who were involved in the local communities. These were taken away and you now barely see a police officer. This was something raised by a Manc copper in 2015 to the then Home Secretary.

The whole system is not very good, its been mentioned that in both recent event security services had been made aware of the attackers. And for whatever reason this still happened.

Police numbers are down, armed police are down, both have happened when May was HS or PM. She has to be held accountable for something.

[super_realist]

I agree Diggers, and while "target" is perhaps the wrong word, it's the only community currently growing home spun terrorists.

I'd be interested to know why Muslim communities think they are "not supported". Are any communities "supported" or is it just people looking to have things done for them?

Don't we all just support ourselves as individuals?


Meanwhile Corbyn being an bumhole and asking May to resign. Neither party has a good record on this, whilst Corbyn would probably want to cuddle the terrorists.

[beninho]

Man in Florida shoots five people and himself. Will Trump say anything about the risk posed by white males with guns? Should travel bans be in place from "white" countries?

[Diggers]

So England reach the Under 20 World Cup final. Last month they lost the Euro under 17's final to Spain on a penalty shoot out. It's pretty clear that the young talent if their and has all the technical attributes, apparently they battered Italy in the semi today. I wonder how we go about ensuring that none of this translates into any success for the full side! Sadly, I have no doubt a way will be found

[super_realist]

Of course they'll fail Diggers. I remember Scotland got to the final of the some age group and it counted for nothing.

[pedro]

Man in Florida shoots five people and himself. Will Trump say anything about the risk posed by white males with guns? Should travel bans be in place from "white" countries?

He had a relationship with the victims (former co-workers). Which is how most murders happen. So no random act founded in a medieval death cult. But it does speak for gun control in general.

[super_realist]

Americans simply can't accept they have a problem with their granting of firearms being too slack.

They see any questioning of their preposterous 2nd amendment as unconstitutional, whereas all this demonstrates is they aren't mature enough to own guns in the way they do.

[Be_the_ball]

Of course they'll fail Diggers. I remember Scotland got to the final of the some age group and it counted for nothing.

Thats the spirit!

Ever the optimist Super!

[super_realist]

Nothing to suggest it will be any different.

[navyblueshorts]

Nothing to suggest it will be any different.

No, but at least the raw ability is there. Still, blow enough smoke up their arses, pay them six figures a week before they're 21 and convince them the Premier League is the best in the World (so they never go elsewhere) and that'll probably do it....

[super_realist]

The ability has always been there Navy just as it is with many countries that inherently fail like England, the trouble is they can't do it in real tournaments against real opposition.

[kwinigolfer]

Lots of excitement in the last 20 minutes but terrible for the first 70.
Weird as the US feed had the audio out of sync with the video, a typical Fox trick to make it's commentators look that split second better than they are, but it was more like a second today and incidents were called on the commentary (which was otherwise pretty good) before they happened. #alternative facts again from Fox.

[super_realist]

Do people still think Joe Hart is a good keeper after yesterday? Two great free kicks, but Hart wasn't even close to either.

[Diggers]

Neither keeper looked great.
Great win by England D in Argentina. Cracking match as well.

[super_realist]

Gordon isn't feted as being a top keeper though, Hart is, yet he's hopeless against a team as bad as Scotland and against someone taking free kicks who plays for a team in Europe's 25th ranked league.

[kwinigolfer]

Worst performance was by Leigh Griffiths's (what kind of Scottish name is that?) barber.

Wouldn't actually blame Gordon for the first goal, considering Ox waltzed thru half the defence and goalie was partially unsighted. Plus great save from Kane's header.
Tierney looked terrific in the first half. Best player on the field for the first hour.

[super_realist]

Griffiths is a bit like Terry, Cole, Gerrard etc, thick as a brick, inarticulate, looks like a thug, prone to run ins with the law and if it wasn't for football, would probably be in jail.

Tierney is looking like a pretty good player, basically already the player John Stones is claimed will be at an indeterminate time in the future. If Tierney played for Southampton who seem to supply players to Tottenham and Liverpool and was English, someone would probably want to pay 40 million for him.
Deserves a move to a proper club and league and no doubt Celtic will struggle to keep hold of him.

England should have Forster in goal.

[Diggers]

Im not a huge Hart fan but I've seen him make some stunning saves, I wouldn't judge him on two strikes he might have got a bit closer to. Forster is decent, I like Butland personally, was looking great before his injury. Truth be told not that much between the three of them.
A few kids coming through as well, Pickford received a lot of plaudits last year, he certainly got enough practice.
Scotland upped their game, they still looked pretty average for most of the match. Tierney looks pretty good, probably get a decent offer, we can judge him better after a season in the Premiership if he makes a move. Thee are plenty of good full backs around, including English ones, they don't go for the money centre backs go for.

[super_realist]

He's making rather a habit of it now though. Iceland, Sweden, Blackburn, Torino and now Scotland.

Probably more gaffes than Calamity James.

[kwinigolfer]

Forster can be a dominating presence but his mental lapses and distribution are yuuge liabilities. Butland, Heaton, Hart for me. Hart needs to get back to his form of a few years ago, been coasting too long.
Pickford could be the best of the lot this time next year, even in the Championship if it comes to that.

[super_realist]

Horrendous scenes in London. I really hope this isn't a terrorist attack. It would be an incredibly easy target to rent a flat and burn it down.

[kwinigolfer]

Quite right, super,
Was following the coverage last night, eerily familiar, albeit thankfully on a smaller scale . . . . .
. . . . and if it's not terrorism, let's hope it doesn't give any scumbags bright ideas.

[MontysMerkin]

Faulty fridge apparently.

[super_realist]

Bit too early to say Monty. They've not even put it out yet, so to claim it's a fridge is a bit speculative.

[MontysMerkin]

It's in the Mail, which is correct on so many levels that we'll have to disagree.

[super_realist]

Very good Monty.

[kwinigolfer]

Even if a fridge blew up, any fire should still be isolated and contained; almost looks like something acted as an accelerant.
Incredible how anything could go from a refrigerator (certainly not saying that started it) fire to a towering inferno in minutes, must have been something highly flammable to cause it to spread so rapidly.

[super_realist]

There's talk of the cladding recently put on the building being a possibility. It has been said there is no requirement for it to be inflammable.

[MontysMerkin]

Another shooting in the US...

[super_realist]

Another shooting in the US...

10 a penny in a backward country like the USA Monty.

[kwinigolfer]

Another shooting in the US...

10 a penny in a backward country like the USA Monty.

Sadly true, the 10 a penny part anyway. How can so many hundreds of millions of Americans be so oblivious? Wonder if the injured were selected deliberately or just at random - seems mainly Republicans targetted and you can bet they're all feeding from the NRA financial trough. Interesting.

[raycastleunited]

So why not invest in nuclear power in those countries and have them supply the rest of us. Or built off shore nuclear plants. If it doesn't work out we can always put our eggs back in the Saudis and Putins basket.

Are you talking about radioactive eggs? The ones that turn into godzilla?

[navyblueshorts]

Even if a fridge blew up, any fire should still be isolated and contained; almost looks like something acted as an accelerant.
Incredible how anything could go from a refrigerator (certainly not saying that started it) fire to a towering inferno in minutes, must have been something highly flammable to cause it to spread so rapidly.

Nah, not necessarily. Furniture, curtains, carpet, you name it. The initial flat, whatever caused it, could have gone from room temp to 600°C and flashover in 2-3 mins, depending on what was burning.

[super_realist]

Whatever the cause, it would appear that the building has been poorly designed and that safety measures either weren't employed or installed or simply didn't work.

Even 50 years ago, this sort of effect shouldn't be possible in a building like this.

[kwinigolfer]

Even if a fridge blew up, any fire should still be isolated and contained; almost looks like something acted as an accelerant.
Incredible how anything could go from a refrigerator (certainly not saying that started it) fire to a towering inferno in minutes, must have been something highly flammable to cause it to spread so rapidly.

Nah, not necessarily. Furniture, curtains, carpet, you name it. The initial flat, whatever caused it, could have gone from room temp to 600°C and flashover in 2-3 mins, depending on what was burning.

But aren't these flats designed to be self-contained? They'd just been redone and you'd think to 21st century fire standards, otherwise what's the point?! Sounds like smoke alarms and, presumably, CO2 detectors weren't functioning properly either.

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