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Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread 16 - Good Luck, We're All Counting On You

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Post by IanBru Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:39 pm

First topic message reminder :

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"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
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Post by RuggerRadge2611 Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:36 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:That's the thing - it's not like we're saying we should have had 10 players there.  4 would have been a good result IMO and as has been said wouldn't have made any difference to the strength of the squad (Watson over Moriarty and J Gray over Henderson say), and I doubt there would have been complaints from the other nations. It would also have reduced pretty much all of the controversy that has been caused by only selecting 2 players and would have meant that the Lions brand would still just about have some credibility as an entity.

Gatland must have known that this fallout would have happened but still did it - either that shows that he will do whatever he thinks it takes to win or that he is a douche who doesn't give a crap about Scotland.  All he had to say on the matter was that there was lots of competition for places.  He was at least able to name check the Gray brothers has being unlucky to have missed out so he does know of more players than just Hogg and Seymour - I doubt he would have been able to name many apart from that though.

Gray, Watson, Maitland/Seymour and Hogg. 4 players. I would have been happy. I think we will get zero call ups either. I don't think Gatland would be happy phoning Townsend groveling for another player. 2 is all we'll get, it might be less if one of them gets injured.

Unless there is utter decimation in terms of injuries. We won't get any call ups IMO.

Scottish rugby is just not rated.
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Post by EST Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:03 am

Well Edinburgh fans, here is news to make you feel better.

Piers Francis has been selected for the England tour to Argentina.

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Post by RDW Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:04 am

EST wrote:Well Edinburgh fans, here is news to make you feel better.

Piers Francis has been selected for the England tour to Argentina.

Shocked

I thought England only selected English players?

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Post by funnyExiledScot Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:05 am

EST wrote:Well Edinburgh fans, here is news to make you feel better.

Piers Francis has been selected for the England tour to Argentina.

That is remarkable. How have we ended up with Duncan Weir!?

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Post by EST Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:07 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:
EST wrote:Well Edinburgh fans, here is news to make you feel better.

Piers Francis has been selected for the England tour to Argentina.

Shocked

I thought England only selected English players?

He's moving to Northampton, apparently.

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Post by EST Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:17 am

funnyExiledScot wrote:
EST wrote:Well Edinburgh fans, here is news to make you feel better.

Piers Francis has been selected for the England tour to Argentina.

That is remarkable. How have we ended up with Duncan Weir!?

Indeed. Is Piers the best example of the Edinburgh Effect?

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Post by RuggerRadge2611 Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:23 am

funnyExiledScot wrote:
EST wrote:Well Edinburgh fans, here is news to make you feel better.

Piers Francis has been selected for the England tour to Argentina.

That is remarkable. How have we ended up with Duncan Weir!?

This is a prank right? Jeremy Beadle is gonna jump out any second?
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Post by EST Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:26 am

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
EST wrote:Well Edinburgh fans, here is news to make you feel better.

Piers Francis has been selected for the England tour to Argentina.

That is remarkable. How have we ended up with Duncan Weir!?

This is a prank right? Jeremy Beadle is gonna jump out any second?

I did do a bit of a double take, but apparently yes. This is real life.

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Post by Nematode Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:27 am

I've seen a few highlights of him playing at the Blues and he looks like a decent player. Fair play to him though, he's worked hard to get to this stage.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:09 am

Nematode wrote:I've seen a few highlights of him playing at the Blues and he looks like a decent player. Fair play to him though, he's worked hard to get to this stage.

Edinburgh ruins players. I actually think Nel, Sutherland, Toolis, Watson, Bradbury, SH-C, Burleigh, Hoyland and Kinghorn should probably leave, before it's too late.

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Post by MacKnocked-on Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:40 am

Was Francis SQ? I suppose the omission of Josh Bassett from the England squad might mean he's opted for Scotland.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:07 pm

MacKnocked-on wrote:Was Francis SQ? I suppose the omission of Josh Bassett from the England squad might mean he's opted for Scotland.

No, but I think he was signed as a project player (and stayed two years I think). We ditched him for Leonard, Laidlaw (remember his extended run at 10! Only at Edinburgh), Bezzy, Tonks and Weir.

Edinburgh, the club that rewards bad judgement!!

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Post by MacKnocked-on Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:14 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
MacKnocked-on wrote:Was Francis SQ? I suppose the omission of Josh Bassett from the England squad might mean he's opted for Scotland.

No, but I think he was signed as a project player (and stayed two years I think). We ditched him for Leonard, Laidlaw (remember his extended run at 10! Only at Edinburgh), Bezzy, Tonks and Weir.

Edinburgh, the club that rewards bad judgement!!

Don't forget we managed to wreck the careers of Heathcote and Te Rure in that time as well.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:17 pm

MacKnocked-on wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
MacKnocked-on wrote:Was Francis SQ? I suppose the omission of Josh Bassett from the England squad might mean he's opted for Scotland.

No, but I think he was signed as a project player (and stayed two years I think). We ditched him for Leonard, Laidlaw (remember his extended run at 10! Only at Edinburgh), Bezzy, Tonks and Weir.

Edinburgh, the club that rewards bad judgement!!

Don't forget we managed to wreck the careers of Heathcote and Te Rure in that time as well.

Not sure we can be blamed for Te Rure. There wasn't much to ruin.

Here's a snippet of fES wisdom from long ago....

Re: Munster V Edinburgh
Post by funnyExiledScot on Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:40 pm

The whole Piers Francis debacle leaves a really sour taste. I really do think Hunter should be starting the game with Leonard on the bench. That's based on form and ability, not rugby prejudice. If we'd signed a NSQ better than the Scottish options then I'd be happy, but Francis, despite the odd flash here and there, doesn't look any better than Hunter or Leonard, and is clogging a spot.

Shows what I know....

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Post by funnyExiledScot Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:18 pm

I tell you something, it really does take you down memory lane looking at some of our old posts on here!

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Post by RDW Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:18 pm

Was about to say - Te Rure had no ability to ruin! I just Googled him and it look like he isn't playing professional rugby anymore - not as far as I an see anyway.

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Post by MacKnocked-on Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:20 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
MacKnocked-on wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
MacKnocked-on wrote:Was Francis SQ? I suppose the omission of Josh Bassett from the England squad might mean he's opted for Scotland.

No, but I think he was signed as a project player (and stayed two years I think). We ditched him for Leonard, Laidlaw (remember his extended run at 10! Only at Edinburgh), Bezzy, Tonks and Weir.

Edinburgh, the club that rewards bad judgement!!

Don't forget we managed to wreck the careers of Heathcote and Te Rure in that time as well.

Not sure we can be blamed for Te Rure. There wasn't much to ruin.

Here's a snippet of fES wisdom from long ago....

Re: Munster V Edinburgh
Post by funnyExiledScot on Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:40 pm

The whole Piers Francis debacle leaves a really sour taste. I really do think Hunter should be starting the game with Leonard on the bench. That's based on form and ability, not rugby prejudice. If we'd signed a NSQ better than the Scottish options then I'd be happy, but Francis, despite the odd flash here and there, doesn't look any better than Hunter or Leonard, and is clogging a spot.

Shows what I know....

Would Duncan Weir have played for NZ U20s? Clearly Te Rure had some talent but a combination of injury and Edinburgh coaching destroyed him.

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Post by tigertattie Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:38 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:I tell you something, it really does take you down memory lane looking at some of our old posts on here!

makes you realise just how long we've all been on this spouting our own variation of utter pish!
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Post by RDW Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:42 pm

Just noticed I passed the 20,000 mark 54 posts ago. That was probably yesterday given all the Lions chat!

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Post by tigertattie Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:57 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Just noticed I passed the 20,000 mark 54 posts ago.  That was probably yesterday given all the Lions chat!

I think you passed it before you went on holiday!

I meant to congratulate ya! but I was on the naughty step at the time!
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Post by funnyExiledScot Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:32 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Just noticed I passed the 20,000 mark 54 posts ago.  That was probably yesterday given all the Lions chat!

That is an excellent effort!!

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Post by RDW Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:33 pm

Is it really something that should be congratulated??

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Post by BigGee Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:38 pm

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby-union/iain-morrison-gatland-goes-for-the-tried-and-tested-1-4423791

Strange times indeed. I am finding myself in almost complete agreement with an article written by Iain Morrison. I think that would be a first as well!

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Post by funnyExiledScot Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:11 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Is it really something that should be congratulated??

I'm an Edinburgh fan. I'm easily impressed.

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Post by Chainsaw Laney Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:51 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
Chainsaw Laney wrote:First time poster drawn out of the woodwork by a mixture of disappointment, anger and frustration. How Wales can have 4 back-row players selected after the manshaming at the hands of Hamish Watson is beyond me.

Add to that the BBC leading with the omission of Hartley rather than the fact that only 2 Scottish players were selected leaves a very bitter taste. Oh well looks like I'll just have to focus all of my attention on Edinburgh... Crying or Very sad

Welcome Chainsaw!

The story around Hartley is an interesting one to lead with. Greg Laidlaw, also captain of his country, has also been omitted.

They could have also led with "Gatland Snubs Edinburgh Players With His Lions Selection". I can't believe no Edinburgh players, or even former Edinburgh players, have made it.....

Thanks! It still perplexes me to this day that Edinburgh stalwarts such as Phil Godman, Nick De Luca, Rob Dewey and of course Brendan Laney did not get the opportunity to light up a Lions Backline. I wonder how many Edinburgh Lions there has been over the last 3-4 tours...Actually probably best not to think about it.

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Post by jimbopip Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:04 pm

Gatland has made this wonderful comment,

There’s no doubt that Scotland have done very well. They will be aggrieved and disappointed about that. They performed exceptionally well at home.
“And we are not playing at home. We are playing away from home. Scotland haven’t been to New Zealand since 2000. And we are playing the best team, back-to-back world champions in their own backyard. We have to perform away from home, that’s going to be paramount.”


So that's why there are so many Welsh players in the squad; their excellent away record in this season's 6Nations. For instance, their marvellous performance at Murrayfield.
Actually, as has been said on here before, if you discount the Italy results only one side won away from home in the 6N this year; England in Cardif. So not only did Gatland's favourites not win away from home they didn't win their crunch match at home.

I just can't believe he didn't select Alex Cuthbert. We all know that deep down inside Gatland believes he's a better winger than Seymour. As is Jake Ball. And Dan Lydiate.

Jonny Sexton will be the Test 10. Farrell will be 12. Dan My Mouth Is Biggar will be the midweek 10 and the back up midweek 10 will be Stuart Hogg, who can also cover wing and full back. furious


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Post by funnyExiledScot Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:56 pm

Chainsaw Laney wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
Chainsaw Laney wrote:First time poster drawn out of the woodwork by a mixture of disappointment, anger and frustration. How Wales can have 4 back-row players selected after the manshaming at the hands of Hamish Watson is beyond me.

Add to that the BBC leading with the omission of Hartley rather than the fact that only 2 Scottish players were selected leaves a very bitter taste. Oh well looks like I'll just have to focus all of my attention on Edinburgh... Crying or Very sad

Welcome Chainsaw!

The story around Hartley is an interesting one to lead with. Greg Laidlaw, also captain of his country, has also been omitted.

They could have also led with "Gatland Snubs Edinburgh Players With His Lions Selection". I can't believe no Edinburgh players, or even former Edinburgh players, have made it.....

Thanks! It still perplexes me to this day that Edinburgh stalwarts such as Phil Godman, Nick De Luca, Rob Dewey and of course Brendan Laney did not get the opportunity to light up a Lions Backline. I wonder how many Edinburgh Lions there has been over the last 3-4 tours...Actually probably best not to think about it.

I'm actually struggling with Edinburgh Lions. Simon Taylor, Ross Ford, Nathan Hines, Scott Murray, Ryan Grant, Mike Blair.....any others??

Glasgow Lions: Euan Murray, Tom Smith (I had to look it up to remember that he played for Glasgow), Ryan Grant, Richie Gray, Tommy Seymour and Stuart Hogg....is that it??

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Post by RDW Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:02 pm

Jason White, Gordon Bulloch 2005

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Post by funnyExiledScot Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:11 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Jason White, Gordon Bulloch 2005

I should have remembered Bulloch. Did White actually pull on the jersey? I know he was called-up in place of Richard Hill right at the end of the tour.

White should have been on that tour from the beginning. He was made to be a Lion.

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Post by Chainsaw Laney Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:05 pm

Chris Cusiter went in 2005 as well, although I have a feeling he was at the Borders at the time? I remember being aghast with this as I'm a bit of a Mike Blair fanboy.

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Post by George Carlin Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:08 pm

Cus and Charlie Hodgson formed an excellent hinge in the unbeaten dirt trackers side in 05 (the 'Woody Clusterf#ck Tour').
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Post by Chainsaw Laney Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:21 pm

George Carlin wrote:Cus and Charlie Hodgson formed an excellent hinge in the unbeaten dirt trackers side in 05 (the 'Woody Clusterf#ck Tour').

Yup he was remarkable in that tour. Vaguely remember many were of the opinion that Cusiter should be the Test scrum-half, only to see Woodward go with Dwayne Peel and Matt Dawson...

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Post by BigGee Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:42 pm

Chainsaw Laney wrote:
George Carlin wrote:Cus and Charlie Hodgson formed an excellent hinge in the unbeaten dirt trackers side in 05 (the 'Woody Clusterf#ck Tour').

Yup he was remarkable in that tour. Vaguely remember many were of the opinion that Cusiter should be the Test scrum-half, only to see Woodward go with Dwayne Peel and Matt Dawson...

Remember on that tour, Woodward decided who was in the test team and who was a dirt tracker even before the squad was finalised. I don't think he even wanted them to socialise together. Cus never had a chance.

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Post by IanBru Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:01 am

funnyExiledScot wrote:
Glasgow Lions: Euan Murray, Tom Smith (I had to look it up to remember that he played for Glasgow), Ryan Grant, Richie Gray, Tommy Seymour and Stuart Hogg....is that it??
Remember Sean Maitland, bud.

After a couple of days, this is one of the calls that perplexes me the most - he's a far better player now than he was in 2013 is more than able to play 15 and wing, and yet he gets left behind in favour of old horsey-face, the scaffolder's apprentice.
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Post by jimbopip Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:44 am

Indeed Bru, at Allianz against Glasgow I thought Sleepy Sean looked sharper and more dangerous than he has for a while. But why would you take him on a tour to NZ? It's not as if he has any experience of the way they play. Doh

No, with Liam Williams currently ahead of Halfpenny for the Welsh starting spot I think we'll see Gatland going down the road of, "Liam's on fire, he's exceptional under the high ball so we really need to play him. But we can't go into close matches without the big boot and accurate kicking of Halfpenny; so we'll play Liam on the wing and Leigh at 15. And it's in the rules that George North must start on the other wing. But hey, those two Scottish lads, whose names escape me at the moment, can play every Wednesday."

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Post by EST Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:07 am

There is no doubt that Liam Williams is a quality player, it's Halfpenny who is the terrible selection.

I think Maitland would have been a great pick for the tour: Low error count, reads the game expertly, playing with lots of confidence for the best club side in the NH, plays wing and FB, knows NZ inside out (obviously)...just another of the 50/50's that didn't go out way.

I think, on balance, I am getting more annoyed by the announcement than when it was first made - it's the hypocrisy and arrogance of it all, especially around Gats comments about away performances. I have yet to see many of the current crop of pundits really stick up for our players and fight their corner either - seems like they have all accepted the narrative that we have a good team, but crap players.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:22 am

EST wrote:There is no doubt that Liam Williams is a quality player, it's Halfpenny who is the terrible selection.

I think Maitland would have been a great pick for the tour: Low error count, reads the game expertly, playing with lots of confidence for the best club side in the NH, plays wing and FB, knows NZ inside out (obviously)...just another of the 50/50's that didn't go out way.

I think, on balance, I am getting more annoyed by the announcement than when it was first made - it's the hypocrisy and arrogance of it all, especially around Gats comments about away performances.  I have yet to see many of the current crop of pundits really stick up for our players and fight their corner either - seems like they have all accepted the narrative that we have a good team, but crap players.

I suspect Maitland lost out to Nowell on the boring/defensive winger slot. I wouldn't have picked Nowell personally. Never trust a man with silly hair.

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Post by EST Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:46 am

funnyExiledScot wrote:
EST wrote:There is no doubt that Liam Williams is a quality player, it's Halfpenny who is the terrible selection.

I think Maitland would have been a great pick for the tour: Low error count, reads the game expertly, playing with lots of confidence for the best club side in the NH, plays wing and FB, knows NZ inside out (obviously)...just another of the 50/50's that didn't go out way.

I think, on balance, I am getting more annoyed by the announcement than when it was first made - it's the hypocrisy and arrogance of it all, especially around Gats comments about away performances.  I have yet to see many of the current crop of pundits really stick up for our players and fight their corner either - seems like they have all accepted the narrative that we have a good team, but crap players.

I suspect Maitland lost out to Nowell on the boring/defensive winger slot. I wouldn't have picked Nowell personally. Never trust a man with silly hair.

And it really is especially silly.

I think you are probably right, Nowell is a grafter and a good player to boot, but his top end pace isn't particularly good and I don't think he will trouble the test team. Actually, I can see a Nowell/Seymour combo working well for the dirt-trackers .

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Post by Hazel Sapling Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:34 pm

The Lions squad is a mess but if the money is similar, the less players involved the better. Gatland ball does not suit many Scotland forwards bar Ford, Nel, Grays and maybe Barclay (a big 7). 1 of those is injured and 1 has aged out.
-Barclay has outplayed Warburton for a year and captains (potentially the leading) Welsh team as a Scot
-The Grays are better than Henderson (at 2nd row), AWJ and Lawes even if Launchbury is at that level as well. Henderson makes sense if he is covering 6 mid-week so can let that one go easier
-Fagerson's play around the park could have pushed him ahead of Sinckler but I want him getting experience in Australia
-Te'o in as a big ball carrier, defending type. Dunbar is more polished and better at getting turnovers.
-Laidlaw got injured at the wrong time or he should be in.

Ultimately I am ok with it all as I think who wants to be coached by that staff. Scotland play fast and prefer to go for turnovers in a way Gatland's teams don't. The Scots players are better off getting used to Townsend. If Townsend is clever, maybe he has spoken to Rennie about visiting for a week during the tour.

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Post by Hazel Sapling Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:39 pm

Also with the Lions effect that usually gives France an advantage the following 6 nations, it may be worth putting a bet on Scotland next year. Actually good enough to take advantage, Wales will be shattered and Ireland will be weakened. France and England have to come north. It could be a shock waiting to happen

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Post by funnyExiledScot Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:59 pm

Hazel Sapling wrote:Also with the Lions effect that usually gives France an advantage the following 6 nations, it may be worth putting a bet on Scotland next year. Actually good enough to take advantage, Wales will be shattered and Ireland will be weakened. France and England have to come north. It could be a shock waiting to happen

Are you calling us "dark horses" already?? It's still April....

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Post by SecretFly Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:04 pm

What about O'Shea's Italy. One year under his belt to get his systems better bedded down, all the Lions contributing sides wrecked.... two Scots boys run ragged and needing a bed from all the mid-week pummelling they got from the softening up Kiwi mob....

it's a cert Italy will pip Scotland to the Slam on a contentious 98th minute penalty try scored against France with Barnes as ref.

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Post by Hazel Sapling Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:01 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
Hazel Sapling wrote:Also with the Lions effect that usually gives France an advantage the following 6 nations, it may be worth putting a bet on Scotland next year. Actually good enough to take advantage, Wales will be shattered and Ireland will be weakened. France and England have to come north. It could be a shock waiting to happen

Are you calling us "dark horses" already?? It's still April....

Got to get in there early

As for Italy, if they win in a contentious 97th minute penalty try after the French prop is taking off for a blood injury caused by a hangnail, whilst being reffed by Barnes and that idiot 4th French official, then I can happily fall to second behind them.

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Post by BigGee Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:26 pm

Robbie Fruen being linked with a moved from Bath to Edinburgh.

He has been talked about before, back before he had his health issues which kept him out of the game for a while, he seems to have proved he can play at the top level again whilst at Bath though.

Was there not talk that he was SQ as well?

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Post by RDW Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:04 pm

If he's fit and motivated that would be a good signing - we desperately need class in the centre.

Ednburgh's track record with foreign signings isn't good though!

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Post by EST Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:55 pm

Fruean was supposed to be the next great AB when he burst on the scene, he is an intimidating physical presence, but has had quite a lot of time out of the game.

I think he would be a very good purchase for Edinburgh if he has put his health issues well behind him, he is a big physical presence and is a considerable step up on Chris Dean.

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Post by jimbopip Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:55 pm

Gentlemen... I'd like to draw your attention to the Bru's better half: the Hagia Sophia just completed the London Marathon. Yahoo

The plucky lass was running for charity: running for her local branch of Mind.

At least I think that what she said. Although in her native Geordie accent it could have been, "I'm running to my local, mind. "
Also, any jokes about six and a half hours of mind numbing tedium, blisters, chafing, and random strangers screaming for you to "keep moving you can't stop there", being just a typical Sunday with the Bru will be frowned upon. drumroll

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Post by RDW Sun Apr 23, 2017 7:53 pm

Well done Mrs Bru-to-be (?)

In other news Lewis Carmichael started for western force against the Chiefs - lining up against Brodie Retalick. Would have been a great experience for him (more so than learning from Grant Gilchrist) but he was skinned by Aaron Cruden for their first try - to be fair he wasn't the only one!

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Post by TJ Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:03 pm

Whats Pinaar up to now that he is leaving Ulster? Just the sort of chap we need at Edinburgh even if he is a bit ugly

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Post by Eejit Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:22 pm

TJ wrote:Whats Pinaar up to now that he is leaving Ulster?  Just the sort of chap we need at Edinburgh even if he is a bit ugly

Edinburgh would have him playing understudy to Hidalgo-Clyne.

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