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PGA Tour: The Masters - The Elimination Game: Notes from the Ballwasher

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Post by kwinigolfer Tue 04 Apr 2017, 2:55 pm

First topic message reminder :

OK, We haven't done this for a couple of years, going through the field of 94 golfers in completely arbitrary and biased fashion until we find a winner we can be happy with. Inspired by Andy North.

No consideration is being made for the conditions which may be influenced by the weather forecast. Storms on Monday closed the course, should be pleasant today, but more storms expected Wednesday. Perhaps the SubAir will presumably cope unless it blows a gasket through overuse, but it sounds as if fairways will still be soft. Then cool and quite windy for Rounds 1 and 2, fine and calmer for the weekend, greens drying out and running at 20 on the Stimpmeter.

1).No amateur has won The Masters and that won't change this week. Five golfers eliminated.

2).And Augusta first-timers haven't won since Fuzzy almost 40 years ago. That gets rid of 14 more, but this is an impressive crop of debutants including Fleetwood, Hadwin, Noren, Pieters & Rahm. Sorry guys, maybe next year.

3).Old Masters and Past Masters: This year in particular, the over-forties crowd who have flourished in the past, have been put into their place by the Young Guns. No-one over 40 has won the Green Jacket since Fatty O'Meara in 1998 and I don't see that trend changing, although Mickelson would undoubtedly bet against that trend. Green Zimmer frames for Phil, Lee, Henrik and 20 others, including 38-y-o Trevor Immelman who won't be in contention. Will he?

For those scoring at home, that's 42 down, 52 to go.

4).We haven't seen an Asian-born Major winner and who's to say Matsuyama won't be the first? Just not this week, Hideki, and you can commiserate with Ben An, James Hahn, Ikeda, Kevin Na (got to get rid of him somehow) and Tanihara. That's another six deported, 46 to go.

5).Continental Europe hasn't produced a winner since Jose Maria 18 years ago and that won't change this year, much as I think Rafa will have a good week. That's five more gone, plus I'll throw in Shane Lowry if my back can take it. 40 remain.

6).Lightning won't strike twice, willett? Very thin ice here as I really like Justin Rose to have a fine week. Good form all year and this may be his focus, much as Rio was last year. But the rest of the British contingent (including Rory) will drown their sorrows with the Patrons, and that's another 9 down the drain. 31 still playing.

7).I like winners and recent winners even more. That sees the field narrow considerably if I eliminate all those who haven't won this year or last - 11 more leave the premises, and then there were 20 (hate to see Kisner go).

8).Some high-flyers from last year have been under the radar this. Augusta National is no place to rediscover your game so adios to Jason Day, Spieth (but he'll surely be around the lead, won't he?), Scott, Reed, Bubba, 3 x Saffers, Walker, Koepka, Berger, Moore. That's a dozen to the exit, and an elite eight remain.

9).Most Masters winners are terrific putters, and Justin Thomas (48th in putting), Brendan Steele (102nd) and Johnny Vegas (164th) won't get it done.

10).Which leaves DJ, Fowler, Henley, Leishman and Sneds.
Sneds ticks most of the boxes, not least being someone who embraces the "Augusta" thing. Not in top form though.
Fowler still has that double-bogey in his DNA.
So this leaves us with a top 3 of Russell Henley, Marc Leishman and Dustin Johnson. All recent winners of course, but nothing wrong with a hot golfer. I can't see past DJ; he may be unsettled by the wind early in the tournament but soft fairways won't hurt him at all.  
Best of the rest: Berger, Oosthuizen, Rose, Spieth.

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Post by kwinigolfer Sat 08 Apr 2017, 7:59 pm

I wonder if anyone has made 18 pars in a Masters round?
Fish has 17 right now, playing the 18th.

Come on Rory!!!!

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Post by kwinigolfer Sat 08 Apr 2017, 8:15 pm

Make that 17 birdies and a double.

Not much moving on moving day. So far.

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Post by McLaren Sat 08 Apr 2017, 8:17 pm

Still.... a 57 isn't too bad!
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Post by kwinigolfer Sat 08 Apr 2017, 8:28 pm

McLaren wrote:Still.... a 57 isn't too bad!

Ah ha!
I wish!
Make that 17 pars and an x!!

Casey making a move.

Oh Rory . . . . . . . .
And Rickie pulling a Rickie . . . . . . anyone's game.

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Post by beninho Sat 08 Apr 2017, 8:47 pm

Hoffers and girters in final pairing tomorrow? That will fet the tv ratings!

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Post by beninho Sat 08 Apr 2017, 8:49 pm

Nordan spieth feeling anyone?

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Post by kwinigolfer Sat 08 Apr 2017, 9:08 pm

Agree Ben,
Bet everyone's looking over their shoulder at Spieth.

Plenty of good rounds so far, nothing spectacular.

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Post by McLaren Sat 08 Apr 2017, 9:54 pm

Will somebody persuade McIlroy that he needs a caddie that is more than a bag carrier and who challenges his bone headed shot selections.
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Post by kwinigolfer Sat 08 Apr 2017, 9:55 pm

Still nothing better than a 69, or -3 on the course. lw1 among those -3's after 15.
Spieth looking Tigeresque, getting up and down from everywhere. The only one among the top 7 with a major.

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Post by McLaren Sat 08 Apr 2017, 10:09 pm

Kwini

Spieth going to win this, but by how many?
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Post by kwinigolfer Sat 08 Apr 2017, 10:10 pm

Anyone's game for me, Mac.
lw1 coming down #18 with the round of the day so far, not mentioned by our TV coverage at all.

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Post by beninho Sat 08 Apr 2017, 10:11 pm

Spieth surely favourite.

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Post by McLaren Sat 08 Apr 2017, 10:14 pm

As I said. WTF is wrong with JP's yardage book?
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Post by beninho Sat 08 Apr 2017, 10:16 pm

Mcilroys shot would probably been fine if he had hit the shot better.

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Post by beninho Sat 08 Apr 2017, 10:17 pm

Actually cant pick a favourite, I really wouldn't be surprised if hoffman goes wire to wire to piss everyone off!

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Post by Shotrock Sat 08 Apr 2017, 10:18 pm

Rahm pulling a pea brain and dunks it... but here comes Jordan and Justin and Adam and even Rory. A parade of major winners.

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Post by beninho Sat 08 Apr 2017, 10:22 pm

If rory could putt...

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Post by Be_the_ball Sat 08 Apr 2017, 10:28 pm

Rory cannot afford to miss putts like that on 15, opportunities are few and far between on this course. Mad.

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Post by beninho Sat 08 Apr 2017, 10:32 pm

Its strange because he is so good yet so streaky on the green.

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Post by McLaren Sat 08 Apr 2017, 10:49 pm

It's pretty hard to hole a ton of putts when no one in your inner circle can read a green.
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Post by owen10ozzy Sat 08 Apr 2017, 10:58 pm

No one...including Rory. I have my doubts about JP but a whole shed load of the blame must also be placed on Rory himself. He has missed far to many chances yet again today. His iron play has let him down (should have made more of the excellent drives on the back 9 5's) and I dont know the stats but he has missed plenty of birdie chances within 10ft when hes been in position

I get the feeling we will forver be saying this about Rory and whilst he has been there abouts for the past 2 years in a majors he hasnt looked like really challenging. I genuinely dont see him adding more than a couple more too his tally to be honest.

Spieth surging...Westwood sticking the fingers up to the doubters yet again..Sergio trying to cling on in their...Rose & Moore just sneaking into the picture unnoticed

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Post by McLaren Sat 08 Apr 2017, 11:06 pm

owen10ozzy wrote:
I get the feeling we will forver be saying this about Rory and whilst he has been there abouts for the past 2 years in a majors he hasnt looked like really challenging. I genuinely dont see him adding more than a couple more too his tally to be honest.

I have to agree with this. He has lost or maybe never had the ability to focus so singularly on the task at hand, like a Spieth or a Tiger, to make sure great play results in a 67 or mediocre play has him sneaking a 71. No other player seems to turn so many 68's or better into 70 odd rounds.

I know some people will continue to blame the player where I blame the caddie, but has a really great player ever hit so many iron shots the wrong yardage?
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Post by Be_the_ball Sat 08 Apr 2017, 11:10 pm

Justin Rose, sneaky good.

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Post by Be_the_ball Sat 08 Apr 2017, 11:14 pm

What Jordan did on 18 is the difference between he and Rory, Jordan had a real go at the first putt, ok it missed but he then nailed the one back. He always backs himself for the one back, this means theres no fear in the first putt.

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Post by Be_the_ball Sat 08 Apr 2017, 11:15 pm

Thats a top quality leaderboard.

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Post by Be_the_ball Sat 08 Apr 2017, 11:19 pm

Great putt on 18 from Rose, what a back 9. Who said he couldn't get hot?

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Post by kwinigolfer Sat 08 Apr 2017, 11:35 pm

Didn't see that coming from Charley Hoffman, that'll be difficult to come back from. Another one bites the dust.
A good chance of Sergio & Justin Rose as the last pair tomorrow.

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Post by Be_the_ball Sat 08 Apr 2017, 11:48 pm

Very loose tee ball on 16 from Charley, he needs to get over it quickly. Rose and Sergio in position A now. Really hotting up to be a great Sunday.

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Post by kwinigolfer Sat 08 Apr 2017, 11:59 pm

I can't imagine hitting that tee shot on #18 - think I'd hit a 9-iron and play it as a Par-6, happy if I made a bogey.

Can see Rose with the best chance he'll ever have of winning this thing.

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Post by Be_the_ball Sun 09 Apr 2017, 12:06 am

If you had to choose 1 hole to play at ANGC, what hole would it be? Id like to play 13.

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Post by Be_the_ball Sun 09 Apr 2017, 12:10 am

Very very very impressed with that putt from Sergio on 18. Where did that come from?

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Post by kwinigolfer Sun 09 Apr 2017, 12:15 am

I'd play #3, probably the only Par-4 I'd dream of hitting in regulation!

What a leaderboard!

The course specialists of Westwood, Casey & Rose doing it again.

Is it between the Top 4 or do you bring in the -2, -3's of Scott & Schwartzel. I'd say lw1 is just too far behind, but probably just as he'd like it.

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Post by Be_the_ball Sun 09 Apr 2017, 12:30 am

Conditions are supposed to be mild again tomorrow and they usually set the course up to be scoreable, this leaderboard is full of top quality players so it would be a big ask for Rory & Lee to be able to come through all of them. But you never know. But for me it's hard to see past the top 5-6 on that LB, they are all battle hardened tough quality golfers.

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Post by Be_the_ball Sun 09 Apr 2017, 12:35 am

kwinigolfer wrote:I'd play #3, probably the only Par-4 I'd dream of hitting in regulation.

Its amazing how many top players make a mess of #3 though. 3h off the tee 9i or 8i in, all day long, next!

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Post by sirbenson Sun 09 Apr 2017, 12:38 am

I'm going to be incredible biased and say Harrington is the best commentator on Sky by a mile!

Hours late I know but that up and down on 10 from Spieth sensational!

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Post by kwinigolfer Sun 09 Apr 2017, 1:17 am

83 from the great ERnie Els todsay and he'll get his just reward - 18 holes at the front of the parade, with a marker. Sad end to his Masters career. Presumably.

Some fantastic pairings - I'm going out early with King Louis and Adam Hadwin - and a terrific forecast.

Unless someone (Rory?) has a 64 in them I'd say it looks like it's down to the top four plus Charlie & Adam. And I don't mean Charlie Adam.

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Post by GPB Sun 09 Apr 2017, 2:47 am

Diggers wrote:
Does it matter, surely the 4 best amateurs is more than enough. Quite frankly one would be enough, we want  (or at least I want) the best players and they are basically the pros.
I do want to see the future, the present and the past. But the future, present and past (or rather declining) of the current/active generation of pros.

When it (pretentiously) calls itself the "The Open Championship", I think it does matter. There is just not many avenues for an amateur to qualify for that tournament. Unlike the US Open, which give amateurs golfer an avenue to the Championship through their local and sectional qualifying. The US Open is truly the more "Open" of the two Championships. Admittedly, their qualifying procedure makes for a stronger field, and thats fine it they want that way. But IMO, a more accurate name would be the "Slightly Ajar Championship of the World".

Go Rickie, Go Jordan

Hate to see Ernie playing in the first group tomorrow, playing with Jeff Knox. Its probably his last round at ANGC unless Hootie and Blowfish give him the Ryo Ishikawa Honorary exemption.

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Post by pedro Sun 09 Apr 2017, 9:01 am

Fowler holed 5-6 par putts of 7 ft or longer to keep him in the mix. In fact his short game seemed pretty sharp. Think he could be sneaky dangerous.

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Post by pedro Sun 09 Apr 2017, 9:03 am

GPB agree about the pretentiousness of the The Open label. A bit nauseating in fact.

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Post by beninho Sun 09 Apr 2017, 9:09 am

I have a couple pound on rickie so would like him to do it! But would really like serg to win. Rose or spieth im a but meh about.

On another note, I like the numbers and the field for the masters, cant think of anyone that deserves ro be there that isnt. It has a lot of ways to get in. The pga has the strongest field of the majors usually, top 100 in the world or something plus invites on top, yet is usually derided.

The lack of coverage is bonkers but golf and exclusivity is normal.

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Post by Diggers Sun 09 Apr 2017, 9:33 am

GPB wrote:
Diggers wrote:
Does it matter, surely the 4 best amateurs is more than enough. Quite frankly one would be enough, we want  (or at least I want) the best players and they are basically the pros.
I do want to see the future, the present and the past. But the future, present and past (or rather declining) of the current/active generation of pros.

When it (pretentiously) calls itself the "The Open Championship", I think it does matter.  There is just not many avenues for an amateur to qualify for that tournament.  Unlike the US Open, which give amateurs golfer an avenue to the Championship through their local and sectional qualifying.  The US Open is truly the more "Open" of the two Championships.  Admittedly, their qualifying procedure makes for a stronger field, and thats fine it they want that way.  But IMO, a more accurate name would be the "Slightly Ajar Championship of the World".

Go Rickie, Go Jordan

Hate to see Ernie playing in the first group tomorrow, playing with Jeff Knox.  Its probably his last round at ANGC unless Hootie and Blowfish give him the Ryo Ishikawa Honorary exemption.

How Open should the Open be though? Do we include the winner of the one armed golfing championships? Or if it's a true Open do we include women in the event?
Ultimately all the qualifying criteria should lead to creating a field of the best players. 6 amateurs at the Masters is about 4 too many for me, amateurs have their own prestigious events, as do the older guys. If you want to watch the next generation, or the last generation, you can in those events.

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Post by Diggers Sun 09 Apr 2017, 9:38 am

sirbenson wrote:I'm going to be incredible biased and say Harrington is the best commentator on Sky by a mile!

Hours late I know but that up and down on 10 from Spieth sensational!

Completely agree that he was a breath of fresh air, he actually seemed to bring out the best from the other guys when they were in the studio. His comments about Sergio were very honest but we'll balanced.

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Post by pedro Sun 09 Apr 2017, 10:17 am

I wonder if there will be served pollo frito at next years champions dinner? Whistle

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Post by Be_the_ball Sun 09 Apr 2017, 11:13 am

GPB wrote:

the "Slightly Ajar Championship of the World".


Laugh Laugh Laugh

Very good.

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Post by GPB Sun 09 Apr 2017, 2:10 pm

Diggers wrote:

How Open should the  Open be though? Do we include the winner of the one armed golfing  championships? Or if it's a true Open do we include women in the event?
Ultimately all the qualifying criteria should lead to creating a field of the best players. 6 amateurs at the Masters is about 4 too many for me, amateurs have their own prestigious events, as do the older guys. If you want to watch the next generation, or the last generation, you can in those events.

FTR, I am not saying it should have more amateurs in it. I am saying that there should be more avenues for amateur to qualify. The three spots reserved for the Amateur Champ, the US Amateur Champ, and Highest ranked amateur is just fine.

That leaves 144 spots that are almost guaranteed to be all pros. The exempt players and players that qualify through the Open Qualifying Series (which are Professional Tournaments which might have a handful of Amateurs in it).

Then there are 9 spots from "Final Qualifying". If you are highly ranked amateur, those are the only legitimate chances to make the Championship.

IMO, if the tourney bills itself at the "Open Championship", I think amateurs should have more opportunity to qualify. That doesn't mean it should have more Amateurs in the tournament.

I remember an Amateur finishing in the Top 10 in 2015 (Niebrugge) and a different amateur actually (Dunne) leading after Round 3.

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Post by sirbenson Sun 09 Apr 2017, 2:11 pm

Who does everyone think will win? And who does everyone want to win?

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Post by Shotrock Sun 09 Apr 2017, 2:23 pm

Think: Sergio
Want: Fowler

As the cliche goes .... this will really begin on today's back nine. The pressure for Garcia or Fowler will be immense. Justin and Jordan have the edge there IMO.

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Post by kwinigolfer Sun 09 Apr 2017, 2:31 pm

The record for most Major Top Ten finishes at the time of his first Major win is 19. By Tom Kite at the US Open.

Sergio has 22 Top Ten Major finishes, Lee Westwood has 18.

No pressure on Lee, CBS didn't even show him yesterday, I'd love to see him or Sergio win. But I reckon it's Rose's time, under the radar all tournament until his final seven holes yesterday.

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Post by sirbenson Sun 09 Apr 2017, 2:37 pm

Think Spieth will win it, hope Pieters or Spieth!

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Post by McLaren Sun 09 Apr 2017, 2:46 pm

Think: Spieth
Want(ed): Tiger boxing
McLaren
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